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players not contributing in TFOs (ps4 only??)
sleepwalker
Member Posts: 128 Arc User
something is REALY WRONG with the players these days.. and it is getting worse over time!
i mainly play advanced random TFOs (on ps4), and in 99% of all TFOs these days, there are people behaving very much like a******s..
eighter they go afk.. or they are not contributing to any of the goals, or optional goals..
i often have the feeling, that they even try to fk up optional goals on purpose. p.e. in undine assault they fly towards the boss (and destroy him in like 20 seconds) when there are already 5 of 6 errant rifts done! ..and if someone writes soemthing about that in the chat, they get called noob or they write some arrogant comments.
countless things like that, happening in nearly every advanced TFO..
it is possible, that those are just new players and dont know yet, what to do.. but i realy dont think so, since they play on advanced difficulty and very often do insane amounts of dps..
I DONT WANT TO PLAY WITH SUCH PEOPLE ANYMORE !!
this needs a fix of any kind..
i think, there should be a system in the background, counting contributes of players.. and if they p.e. dont go for optional targets on a kinda regular basis, they should not be allowed to play advanced, or elite, and should be restricted to normal TFOs..
i admit, that would be a pretty drastic solution, but it would work
maybe someone can come up with a better solution.. but nevertheless, this cannot stay that way
i mainly play advanced random TFOs (on ps4), and in 99% of all TFOs these days, there are people behaving very much like a******s..
eighter they go afk.. or they are not contributing to any of the goals, or optional goals..
i often have the feeling, that they even try to fk up optional goals on purpose. p.e. in undine assault they fly towards the boss (and destroy him in like 20 seconds) when there are already 5 of 6 errant rifts done! ..and if someone writes soemthing about that in the chat, they get called noob or they write some arrogant comments.
countless things like that, happening in nearly every advanced TFO..
it is possible, that those are just new players and dont know yet, what to do.. but i realy dont think so, since they play on advanced difficulty and very often do insane amounts of dps..
I DONT WANT TO PLAY WITH SUCH PEOPLE ANYMORE !!
this needs a fix of any kind..
i think, there should be a system in the background, counting contributes of players.. and if they p.e. dont go for optional targets on a kinda regular basis, they should not be allowed to play advanced, or elite, and should be restricted to normal TFOs..
i admit, that would be a pretty drastic solution, but it would work
maybe someone can come up with a better solution.. but nevertheless, this cannot stay that way
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
most other games give people options to handle bad behavior.. like kicking people from groups.
p.e. in ESO people take group-play pretty serious, because they WILL get kicked if they just stand around ..or just leech the group.
we should total at least have the option to kick such players from a tfo..
We have talked about this time and time again.
Unfortunately, there's no easy solution... and a kick feature would just encourage more trolls, instead of taking care of the few people that AFK in a queue.
Comparing this game to ESO is not really conductive to anything, either, because there's need for cooperation and for different roles and classes in there, while STO doesn't really need anything of the sort unless you go for Elites.
Also, and this is just my opinion of course: as long as the queue is successful, I can absolutely live with not getting this or that *optional* exactly because it's an optional. Yeah, you lose a bit of marks, but that's about it.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
We have very motivating maps like Infected or Hive space. They not only reflect the global progression curve of a player but also show how teamplay leads to better results.
On the other hands we have very de motivating maps where it hardly matters if a team interacts at all. They auto win. So why should anybody do there a poo poo especially when additional mark rewards are pathetic?!
I consider Undine assault to be one of the better maps. Good tasks, good payout, interaction required. The problem the op describes is understandable though. If I want as many marks I can get I want the optional. If I want to get with my 150 rtfo recruitment task through ASAP I would want to skip it in order to be done faster.
Again there is no right or wrong player sided, just faulty map design making an optional last longer than the main tasks to fulfill. No surprise.
Have all 6 errands spawn all at once right at the start and the problem would be solved cryptic.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
What we need is a system-managed system that will detect input from a player, and if that player isn't taking part, it prompts a kick-vote. This would not be open to abuse as only the system could present the option. Don't know how this would be done on Console without disrupting play, but it can be done on PC. Cryptic needs to have actual GM's who can monitior these reports as well, once the pandemic subsides.
There's a reason every other game on the planet has this feature, because it actually works even as crude as it is. As long as folks aren't serial AFKers or abusers themselves, 99% of the time you will never have to worry about a kick feature being used on you. While GMs can help with severe cases, they have better things to do than playing babysitter every single time a queue group goes south.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I have far too much time and currency wrapped up into this game than for some random intarwebz person to be able to jeopardize that.
Which in a way is also part of a problem in STO. Lack of Communication. It is incredably rare for me to see anyone communicate in TFOs, even in ones where a bit of planning or a "Hey I need some help over here" can actually make a difference.
For example:
But unfortunately its 99% silence and expectations of knowing what to do without any prompting. Occasionally you'll get some communication, but its a mixed bag of something that's actually helpful to occasional trolling to outright insulting a player for "not measuring up".
But again... that is extremely rare to begin with. We barely even get a "GG" anymore. I see more action in ESD Zone Chat, and half the time that's a mess in itself!
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Agreed.
As @peterconnorfirst said, the problem OP's talking about is understandable and I also agree that it's in part the map design's fault, but the solution is not a kick features.
Now, if that had been present from the start, things would be different but since it wasn't, implementing it now would just cause more grief.
An alternative solution could be a system that check your contribution and, if it's zero or below a certain amount, you get no rewards, at all.
But a system like that would cause unjust punishment, just as the automated AFK penalty does now.
Again, there's no easy solution to this, except grin and bear it and doing your best, which is all anyone can ask of you.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
When you join a random TFO, it's no longer about just you, but the entire team. When the actions of one person can harm the run of the rest of the team, those other 4 people have the right to be angry at the 5th person. One person is not so important that their playtime or their experience gets to trump the playtime and experience of 4 other people. When one guy isn't pulling his weight or is AFK, that run is essentially playing a man down, which is not fair to the other 4 people of the team. Even if they're able to clear the queue without the 5th guy, it's not fair to expect them to carry him through the run. THAT is true griefing right there. When one person's actions negatively impact the other 4 through no fault of their own, the other 4 have a right to demand something be done about it which is what he is doing.
As I've said a thousand times, you're NEVER going to have a system that is perfect and can never be abused in some way unless it's designed by a higher being like Q, The Presence from the DC universe, or The One Above All from Marvel. Expecting others to always have other people on and stick exclusively to private runs is completely unreasonable and not a valid solution. Automated systems can be tricked and once folks learn the thresholds for triggering automated systems you're right back where you started at square one and the automated systems have been rendered useless. Automated systems work for all of 5 minutes then they're useless.
If folks don't grief and constantly AFK then 99% of the time they won't have to worry about a kick feature. If you don't like the idea of a kick feature, fine you're entitled to that opinion. However if you're going to say you don't want a kick feature, at least provide viable alternative methods that will actually work to address the issues. To date I can count on one hand how many potential solutions I've seen posted that would actually have any effect on the issue aside from a kick feature. The rest has all been excuses as to why it won't work in their minds and how instead of doing something we should just stick to the status quo, and the rest of the folks in the random queue pool should have to just suck it up and deal with the griefing.
See above about automated systems, once folks learn the thresholds to avoid losing rewards they will still do the bare minimum and expect folks to carry them and do nothing else. They're good for about 5 minutes until folks figure them out, then you're back to square one again. I fail to see why some folks (not saying you specifically) see it as so unreasonable that folks actually be expected to contribute to the run they queued for instead of being carried.
I wish I didn't even have to bring up the idea of a kick system as I despise the thought of them even having to exist. However while they are crude and blunt instruments, they work. No system is abuse proof, but in this instance the 4 people in the run have a means of restitution if they get grouped with "that one guy." We already have automated systems and they don't stop anything. More of the same isn't going to work.
Plenty of other games have added kick systems after the fact with WoW being a prime example, and the overall quality of runs has gone up because of it. Did it completely eliminate griefing, of course not, but it cut it down by a good 85% at least. Otherwise at the end of the day "grin and bear it" is not a viable solution and in my book is little more than an excuse for leeching.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
No different than if they were to troll someone in the run itself. Otherwise this is why there would be safeguards to help prevent abuse of a kick feature should one be implemented.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Not by a system managed vote-kick. Simply put, it detects the offence, and puts up a vote to kick prompt. It's run by the system and only the system, so players can't abuse it. Player initiated vote-kicks should never happen.
Not sure on the older ones. I know they're supposed to have a do 1% of the total damage required or be considered afk. This may have changed.
No, it really doesn't. In addition to STO I also play WoW, which has ALWAYS had a kick feature, and I almost never see it get abused, infact the last time I can remember witnessing attempted kick abuse was five or so years ago during Warlords of Draenor, and the vote failed because the rest of us saw what was going on and voted no. That's in WOW, a game with a much more toxic player base than STO has. Sure, there's POTENTIAL for abuse, but the vast majority of people aren't going to do that.
I really don't understand the irrational fear some people have over a basic vote-kick option.
Players will simply do the bare minimum to avoid the vote kick popping up.
If you want to roll through a queue like that, then by all means that's on you. However not everyone shares your sentiment, and some queues actually require everyone to participate if you want full rewards or sometimes to even advance the queue itself.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
a billion times thank you for this. I played WoW for years and in the 11 years I've been in that game I've seen one successful abuse of the kick function, and one attempted abuse of it. So one attempted abuse every 5 1/2 years I consider an accomplishment. I have my own theories as to why some folks are so afraid of a kick system, but aside from those theories I don't get the irrational fear of it either. Folks complain about wanting something done, then when a solution that has worked and continues to work in other games gets suggested, suddenly it won't work and every excuse under the sun comes out to maintain the status quo that they were complaining about.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
"Not saying you specifically"... good, because I've never said anything like that, and I never will.
I'm just in tune with what a kick feature would result into, because I've seen it happen time and time again, in multiple games and for the most disparaged - and stupid - reasons, including "I don't like how they're dressed", believe it or not.
I expect people to contribute because that's what a team is supposed to do, otherwise just go play solo stuff and don't bother other people.
But if they don't, then it's not my problem in the sense that I've done what I can to the best of my abilities, so my conscience is clear and I can go home with a reward that I have fairly earned.
If you want to consider that attitude as "an excuse for leeching", then maybe you should re-read what I wrote, because I was quite clear in expressing my opinion.
And just as with ESO, comparing STO with WoW is not conductive to ANYTHING because you need proper healers, tanks and DPSrs doing their jobs. In STO you don't unless you go for Elites.
But if you *truly* want to compare other games that requires proper team compositions and for people to follow tactics and mechanics, SWTOR does have a kick feature... and I lost count of the times someone started a kick vote for whatever reason - including the one I mentioned above, together with "taking too long to load", "don't skip cutscenes", and stuff like that, though I suppose the most memorable one was because this guy said "brb, got to pee" and not even 15 seconds later one of the others started the kick vote.
To once again quote @valoreah:
Enjoy the rest of your discussion. I'm out.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
That does not sound easy to implement.
Personally I would say Normal is for two people who know what to do, a third person sorting out idiots who think Khitomer Vortex is for playing football with probes, and one new player and one troll, because that is a reasonable scenario for pugging, while Advanced should be benchmarked at three people to allow for pugging issues, but for Elite it is reasonable to assume people are forming five person premade teams, and therefore higher competency. (which all too often in STO just means damage dealing; there aren't many missions that couldn't be auto-won just by having enough damage)
I tend to assume the best about someone going afk; we've all had the experience of a landline phone call while playing for example. But systemic Problem-afking exists, and is primarily a function of mission design and/or reward structure that leads people to believe their desired goal is met better by not playing than by playing.
The bigger problem of the two as it is harder to fix is bad gameplay design - so many missions are "do X activity for Y minutes", and that creates incentive to afk instead of play, especially when so often we have events where you have to do this for a few weeks to get the new shiny. Additionally, rewards are an issue; if people can afk a TFO for 15 minutes and get 100 marks, or actually bother and get an extra 30, then it becomes a problem of reward for playing not being desirable enough compared with the reward for not playing. Flipping it around, so that afking gets 30 marks and actually playing grants 130 marks, and Problem-afking will drop. (not completely unfortunately, because of "getting new shiny" afking)