test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

players not contributing in TFOs (ps4 only??)

135

Comments

  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,061 Arc User
    Apologies, this was on PC. I do not own a console so I cannot speak to what goes on there. There are many here who claim AFK players are rampant regardless of platform. I just wanted to add my observations for what I experienced on PC doing RTFOs.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    Hmm, earlier in this thread I mentioned that toxicity wasn't very common in STO, but now I wonder if that's just because I don't socialize much in-game. Today I had an endeavor for 20 Voth ground kills, so I went to the Dyson ground battlezone. I killed one Voth and had someone whisper me "So your specialty is leeching?" and then put me on ignore before I could ask what that was even supposed to mean. I typically avoid battlezones cause I don't find them enjoyable, they're a very poor implementation of open-world content imo, and ground BZs in particular I avoid because I dislike ground combat (I'm more than capable of doing it, I just think the ground gameplay is horrendous).
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    eaY7Xxu.png
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,061 Arc User
    Hmm, earlier in this thread I mentioned that toxicity wasn't very common in STO, but now I wonder if that's just because I don't socialize much in-game. Today I had an endeavor for 20 Voth ground kills, so I went to the Dyson ground battlezone. I killed one Voth and had someone whisper me "So your specialty is leeching?" and then put me on ignore before I could ask what that was even supposed to mean. I typically avoid battlezones cause I don't find them enjoyable, they're a very poor implementation of open-world content imo, and ground BZs in particular I avoid because I dislike ground combat (I'm more than capable of doing it, I just think the ground gameplay is horrendous).

    In my experience, most people do not socialize at all in the game. They want to team up with others for team content, but do not seem to want to interact in any meaningful way.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    mattingly1 wrote: »
    > @valoreah said:
    > You cannot be that naive. Vote kicking can be initiated for any reason. Where to begin?* Initiating a vote kick because someone is "flying the wrong ship"
    > * Initiating a vote kick because someone is not "playing right"
    > * Initiating a vote kick because someone does not like the costume someone else has
    > * Initiating a vote kick because they feel like it
    > * Initiating a vote kick because someone is using Phasers instead of Disruptors
    > * Initiating a vote kick because someone playing a Tellarite
    > * Initiating a vote kick because someone went right instead of left in ISA
    >
    >
    > The list of how people can abuse this to troll others is endless. Again, are you ok with people kicking you for any of those reasons?
    >
    > Here is an example from this very thread-

    Again, this is manufactured hysteria. It almost impossible to get a kick to go through in a game like FFXIV - most people aren't vindictive, aren't looking to punish, or simply aren't paying attention. I'd watch it calling someone naive when you're apparently so closeted and inexperienced that you haven't the slightest idea of how difficult it is to herd cats.

    the way I have been excoriated in TFOs? that's not hysteria. I am POSITIVE that if a kick option were available I would have been. the players said Stop playing MY game, like they own TRIBBLE PWE
    awkward.jpg
    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    Depending on the platform, it varies. AFK'ing isn't as bad on Console once they start getting a ban, simply because they don't realise the 'exploits' that PC players know to get round the system. On Xbox, depends on the TFO. Synth-wave was 1 in 5 runs I'd get an AFK, PC I was seeing about 1 in 3, and yes, I count sitting above the starbase with auto-fire/macro as AFK. When it's something like Breach, it's 1 in 2 on PC (on one occasion 3 players sat AFK, so my team-mate and I went dead slow and took our sweet time), and about 1 in 3 on Xbox.

    PC players KNOW they can get away with it.

    Actually, stitting on the starbase keeping the transports alive is a viable job in synthwave. when there was a problem with not enough transports making it out system i decided to start healing/defending them and never saw that issue again.
    it goes back to what you think is proper for a TFO is not what I think is, and there is no right or wrong to it.
    awkward.jpg
    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • millefune#8468 millefune Member Posts: 292 Arc User
    Not saying this is the reason why it happens all, or even most, of the time... but it may account for the uptick in the occurrence. Ever since they launched the Year of the Klingon Part 2 on PlayStation, the game disconnects from the server and people get shunted back to the title screen, and/or crashes completely to the PlayStation blue screen, A LOT.

    It takes a couple of minutes for our PlayStation with an upgraded SSD to reload STO and get back into the TFO. If it's on the original slow HDD, it could be a lot longer and the player is unable to get back to the "this is where you were before you crashed" saved point. Or maybe they just get too frustrated and turn the game off to cool down a bit?
  • knightfalzknightfalz Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    mattingly1 wrote: »
    > @valoreah said:
    > Except it is not manufactured hysteria. Are you honestly claiming this would never happen? You already saw in this thread people saying they have no issue kicking someone who "has an attitude problem."
    >
    > I would be careful calling someone closeted and inexperienced. I have been here long enough to understand there are elements among the playerbase here who will thoroughly enjoy abusing any kind of vote kick system. If you are open to get spammed with vote kick requests for arbitrary reasons every TFO or deal with discussions about who should or should not get kicked from a team instead of actually playing, more power to you.
    >
    > Any system is open to abuse. No amount of wishful thinking is going to change that fact.

    I am not interested in shielding an infinitesimally small minority from the unlikely scenario that a vote kick system may occasionally be abused (because, like I said, heaven forefend anyone have to sit in STO's often-insta-queue again) preferentially over a much larger portion of the community impacted by scummy AFKers. It is far more likely that an individual lazy player will exploit the current system than a majority-rules plurality abuse the proposed one. I've played multiple, multiple MMORPGs with vote-kick systems and, no, Chicken Little, the sky didn't cave in.

    What you are or not interested in matters primarily, if not only, to yourself. This kind of system would have widespread impact and potential negative repercussions such that 'mattingly don't care' isn't going to cut it, nor will your assumption of how minimal the issues would be based solely on your experience when others have had contrary ones.

    Any such system would have to have the impact carefully assessed and considered before implementation, and then heavily monitored for a time after to ensure it was producing the hoped for results with minimal abuse along with. That there are resources available for that is questionable, and that the developers would feel them well allocated even more so. To implement the system without would a greater risk than most for profit companies would tolerate.

    Accordingly, I don't see a vote kick being introduced at this point regardless of how unconcerned some players would be with any potential negative ramifications.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,326 Community Moderator
    I had intended to let this die since it has been largely unproductive, but I think in this instance there is something that needs to be said, especially considering one of the most recent posts.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Yeah actually you can, just not to the degree any of us may wish we could at times.

    This is the key part here in what you are looking for. You want more control over what a random group of people you do not know to enforce your will and play style on them rather than adjusting your behavior to totally avoid the situation. As always, you want to pawn off responsibility on someone else rather than taking control for yourself using what is available right now.
    Parents do it all the time when having to discipline their kids. Society does it with laws against unwanted conduct. Fleets do it in game by booting unwanted members.

    For starters, this is a game and not the real world. Other players in here are not your children and you have no right to impose your view or style of play on random people who do not want it or think differently than you.

    Second, fleets booting unwanted members just proves my point - the fleet leader(s) are taking control of a situation themselves. They are not asking Cryptic to program something for them to handle the behavior of others. This is no different than what I am suggesting - form your own teams and you can impose whatever rules you want on how to play and how to behave. What you are looking for is to enter a random TFO with random people and enforce your style of play on others via a vote kick. You are essentially rolling the dice and then complaining that you did not get the desired outcome, then asking others to rig the dice for you so you can get the outcome you want. That is not how life works.

    You may have your own expectations of how others should team up and play that are not shared by other random people. Expecting a random group of strangers to do what you do and what you want is not realistic.
    Dude you need to stop reading stuff into what I said that's simply not there. You previously made the claim that we cannot change or control the behavior of people. I gave you examples of how you can in fact control and modify the behavior of people. Nothing more nothing less.

    Second, your example regarding fleets fails because fleets are a private matter among the members and does not concern the general public like a TFO does. Much like a trading card game like Magic the Gathering, Yugioh, Pokemon etc. You can have whatever house rules you like when playing private games, but if you're going to interact with the public and go to public events, there are certain rules and decorum you must abide by. Otherwise they have the right to make you leave. As long as you abide by the rules you will never run into issues with most events or places. Should one however violate the rules or start acting like a tool and get asked to leave, that's not them "imposing their will on you" or trying to "rig the dice to get the outcome you want". That's purely you having violated the rules or having been a tool and them asking you to leave for the others there. If you are doing something within reason to harm their gameplay, they have every right to boot you. Unfortunately that IS how life works. By your own logic, if you don't want to worry about the vote kick feature ever being an issue, you should team up with your fleetmates and do nothing but private runs. Also by your own admission, you already run near exclusively with fleetmates or friends anyways, meaning you complained about a tool that will never effect you by your own logic.

    On this point you have royally missed the point of what I have been saying. There is a massive disconnect between what I an others are proposing, vs what you think we're saying. I don't expect to jump into a TFO run and start barking orders like I'm some sort of general. I do however expect that if someone joins a queue with clearly defined objectives that folks follow the objectives of the queue and actively participate. If they're not going to try to participate and contribute to the team in some way, or are going to deliberately try to foul up the run, they have no business or right to be in that queue. Failing optionals or queues themselves organically or due to no fault of the group is one thing. Someone fouling it up intentionally or being a tool is something else entirely. Again I don't expect to start barking orders like a general, but I do expect folks to be able to carry their own weight, and play according to the requirements of the queue itself. If they don't, it negatively impacts 4 other people in a run which is not fair to those 4 people. In that instance, the 4 being negatively impacted outweighs the wants of the one. That one going in there and expecting to be able to do whatever they want, even at the expense of the other 4 is the very definition of trying to impose his will on the group.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Well no, everyone does have the option to socialize with others, add like minded players to their friends list and form their own teams. Claiming not everyone has that option is completely and utterly false. Everyone has that opportunity and everyone can do it if they put in the effort. The issue is some people do not want to put forth minimal effort to engage others and socialize to find others to team with.

    For me personally, I have been here since BETA. Over the years my friends list and fleetmates have changed quite a lot. However, I put in the effort to chat with others and keep an active roster of people. It takes work, but it can be done. I can do it. Why can you not?

    And no, people who do not have any friends on line at the moment are not SoL. They are more than welcome to join a random TFO. However, they should do the adult thing and accept the consequences of their decision in that they may not get the ideal team for them. Others may behave in a way they do not like. Again, if you want to roll the dice, accept the consequences and do not complain that you did not get the desired outcome.
    This is where it comes full circle back to the disconnect yet again. This assumes once again that the person in question has friends or fleetmates online to run something with. Folks will not always have friends or fleetmates online to run with, regardless of how social they are. THAT is what I have tried to get you to see. What happens then? What are they to do? By the logic I have seen displayed in your posts, it seems their only option is to simply roll the dice and pray to Q they get a good group. If they are unlucky enough to get a bad group, then that's just a consequence they'll have to accept for not putting in enough work to have more friends. Afterall giving him and others in that group a tool to boot the bad seed would just be trying to rig the outcome in their favor.

    Sorry dude but no, once again see above. No single person is so important in this game that they should be allowed to join and deliberately foul it up for 4 other people. That is the definition of trying to impose one's will on others. I don't care how long someone has been in this game, no one gets to do that. Folks should not have to simply "accept the consequences" of another person deciding to be a troll.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Current tools being insufficient on their own is utterly not true. You can form your own team right now and never see another AFK person again. That is irrefutable fact.
    It's also irrefutable fact that not everyone will always have friends and fleetmates on to form their own team. Otherwise see above. Current tools are insufficient on their own to address when issues like this come up. Nor should folks always have to rely on the "form your own team" method or be locked out of public content.
    valoreah wrote: »
    You have totally misunderstood me. When you join a random TFO, it is not about you in that you are not the team ruler and do not get to dictate to everyone else what they should do and how they should play. It is not only about you and what you want. If you want to complete optionals and others do not, it is in no way your sole decision to impose that on others. Again, you made the decision to join a random TFO. Accept the consequences of that decision in that you may not get team mates who play the way you want. You took a chance and rolled the dice, do not complain when you did not get the outcome you wanted.
    Once again see above, no one is wanting to become a general barking orders. What they do expect is that people play according to the objectives of the queue and such they are placed in. If they want to do their own thing, then by your own logic they need to play with like minded people. Otherwise again by your own logic, they don't get to simply impose their will on others, and then hide behind the excuse of "you accepted the possible consequences" when that person fouls up the run for the other 4. The lines in bold are extremely telling to me as it's nothing but an excuse for enabling trolling behavior whenever it comes up. Something being a random TFO is NOT and I repeat is NOT an excuse or license to simply do whatever you want. When you join randoms you agreed to play by the objectives of that queue and with the team.

    If you get team members that want to do optionals, and folks that don't then yeah you've got an issue. An easy solution since you're pushing communication is to have team members say "hey I don't want to do optionals" at the start and give folks the option to figure that out before they start. That would be a little common courtesy being extended. Otherwise the simplest solution would be to have the system call a vote at the start of the run to include optional objectives or not. If they vote to include them then the optionals are included for bonus marks. If they vote not to include them, then they are never included. Problem solved. When you say "accept the consequences of that decision" you basically saying folks should have to just suck it up and deal with potential trolls or stay out of public content.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Absolutely! This door opens both ways. Here is the beauty of it - people who want to AFK every TFO can all team up together too! This can and does happen. As an example, there are always people LFG in various chat channels looking for "AFK groups" when the First Contact Day event comes around. Those people never, ever have to listen to another player berate them for being AFK.
    You're failing to see a distinction between public and private groups. The problem isn't with private groups, but public ones. What works for a private run will not necessarily work for a public run. The other key difference here is that in your AFK group example, those folks CHOSE to group together and do an AFK run, the folks being talked about here didn't. They joined a public run and went AFK or started to troll. There is a HUGE difference between the 2. The fact stands that folks joining a public group do not have the options to deal with trolls that a private group does. They can't simply boot them and go on. THAT is the issue is they have no recourse against trolls. Also why join a queue if you're going to just AFK and have the game play for you essentially?
    valoreah wrote: »
    Not sure why you feel the need to threaten me. To answer your question, not at all. You are more than welcome to do whatever you like and play however you like. All I am suggesting to you is a means to eliminate seeing AFK players or dealing with others who do not play the way you want by taking control of the situation for yourself. You or anyone else can achieve this right here right now with zero development time required. You just need to put in the effort to do it.
    You're making some dangerously bold assumptions about myself and others you know nothing about. By your own logic, playing with others in a random TFO is engaging with fellow players, or do you not consider those folks in the random TFOs to be actual people? See again above, that's great that folks can team with fleets and friends, but that is not always an option for people. People also should not have to join a fleet just to avoid having to deal with trolls and people trying to be tools in queues.

    Well no, simply joining a random TFO with random people is not engaging other players in conversation. Sure, they are actual people who all have a different way of thinking and playing. If I do join a random TFO, I can respect that.

    Again, not everyone having the option to make friends or join a fleet is a complete falsehood. There is nothing in the existing game that prevents anyone from chatting with others, adding people to friends lists or joining a fleet.
    I said what I did because it sounded like you were dismissing what folks said out of hand who didn't have folks to run with, and then insinuating that's only the case because they're anti-social. Thus flaming others who did not agree with you as purely being anti-social.

    I also NEVER said folks couldn't make friends. What I did say is that not everyone has the option to play with friends or fleetmates. that option is not always available to people when they are on. So again, what do they do? Because all I'm seeing is essentially them being told they should either have to just suck it up and "deal with the consequences of their choice", or just be SoL. Putting it bluntly you say one thing at one point, but something completely different elsewhere in your post which is contradictory to what you said previously. Ultimately I see the bits in bold above as having blaming the victim for an issue that was completely out of their control. Condescendingly telling folks "oh sorry you got trolled. you shouldn't have been so anti-social and ran with friends and you wouldn't have gotten trolled." It blames the victim for something out of their control and makes an excuse for the troll.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Well no. As always, you are misunderstanding and misrepresenting what I am suggesting. No, I am not telling anyone to just put up with it. I am suggesting they take control of the situation and try to solve the problem on their own. If anyone wants to forego taking advantage of making friends to team with or joining an active fleet that shares a similar style of play, then fine. Go right on doing that, just accept the consequences of that decision.
    But that is what you're suggesting actually only not in those kinds of words. You claim you're not saying that folks should simply have to "suck it up and deal" if/when they run into a troll in public runs, and folks shouldn't have to rely exclusively on fleets and private runs to get anything done. Yet with the bolded section, that's exactly what you're doing only not in those exact words. You're basically saying that folks should always run with friends and fleetmates, and if they decide not to do so, or those friends and fleetmates aren't on, then they're just SoL and should just "accept the consequences" of their actions and accept the trolling. You can say you're not all day long but by your own words you keep pushing "run with fleetmates and friends or accept the consequences" while making excuses for the trolls. If folks have fleetmates and friends on they can run with, that's great, but you keep dodging the question of what happens when those folks aren't available. You also fail do differentiate between public runs and private runs.

    You're basically saying, "I run private runs and I have no issues. Therefore there can't be any issues in public runs. Those that have issues are only having issues are having issues because they didn't run private groups like I do. Folks should either run privately all the time or accept the consequences of choosing a public run since they chose to forgo the benefit of friends and fleetmates." In other words, it dismisses the problem out of hand then blames the person for having the problem to start with in a condescending way and suggesting that if they would just be more like you they wouldn't have a problem. Seriously dude in what universe do you honestly think blaming the victim for something outside of their control is cool? In what universe do you honestly think people aren't going to have an issue with suggesting folks should just "suck it up and deal with and accept the consequences of your actions." It's essentially stopping short of saying folks deserve it for not playing private runs. Good grief man.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,326 Community Moderator
    valoreah wrote: »
    As always, here is where this idea fails. Were AFK players of the magnitude here you and others are suggesting, just about everyone would have their ability to initiate a vote kick severely diminished or removed, negating the purpose for it in the first place.
    If someone rarely calls vote kicks their ability to call kicks is uneffected. Most folks are not willing to risk their ability to call votes to troll in this matter. All in all you're talking maybe 1% of the playerbase doing this.

    All in all, what percent of the playerbase is AFK in random TFOs? I can tell you that on the occasions where I join random TFOs, I rarely if ever see anyone AFK. If the AFK "problem" is not as pervasive as you are suggesting, then there is no need for a vote kick system.
    Also by your own logic from previous, if you're running with fleetmates as exclusively as you say, you won't have to worry about vote to kick anyways since I highly doubt your fleetmates would simply boot you.

    I team with family, friends and fleetmates the majority of the time. I do run random TFOs on occasion.
    Every system can be abused at some point and in some way. If you're waiting for an abuse proof system, you're going to be waiting until the end of time because that's not going to happen.

    Correct, any system can be abused which is exactly what a vote kick would be here. I really struggle to understand how you are a "community moderator" here without understanding how this would get abused. Especially after years of endless debates about "memorial spheres", snowballs, fleets actively getting others chat silenced etc.

    You can feel free to ignore it, but teaming up with friends is an abuse proof system and the beauty of that is you can do it right now.

    And with these bits right here, you made my point for me. You dismiss it out of hand and because you're not having the issue and you personally don't see it, or refuse to see it, there must be no issue. Anyone who is having an issue is only having one because they didn't socialize enough and didn't do enough work to have friends and fleetmates on at all hours of the day. Because they chose to run a public TFO instead of a private one, it's their fault they got trolled and should've just accepted the consequences of their decision. For private runs, yeah teaming with friends, family, fleetmates, works. But again we're talking PUBLIC runs not private runs. PUBLIC runs as in random TFOs with the public where they may interact with the general playerbase. THAT is where the problem lies. For how many folks I would say AFK and such, I would say 20% on average, with higher amounts in certain queues. So odds are in your favor that you may not get someone doing it, especially depending on the queue, but still happens enough to be a problem. You may disagree but that's where I put the numbers.

    Since you must know how I was recruited as a mod I will tell you. I started off as a Bug Hunter first. I was recruited to that group for my work in other games and ability to track down issues. Before coming to STO I created some of the most popular player generated maps in Timesplitters Future Perfect to the point they were EA recommended for weeks at the time. I have nearly 100 such maps to my name by the time the game shut down, and still have most of my old maps saved on a memory card. I also created several popular maps for Star Trek Armada II as well as several mods for the game. I also knew the Star Wars Battlefront (04) and Battlefront 2(05) games like the back of my hand. I also created a single player cheat menu for Star Wars Jedi Academy that could change settings on the fly for various comedic effects. I also had nearly 5,000+ hours in World of Warcraft at that time and reported quite a few bugs for fixing. On console for a brief time I helped a couple Microsoft agents bust online modders and hackers. I have also largely rewritten Star Trek Armada II into my vision of what the game should have been or could have been. I also do audio/video editing as part of my business and have several ways to document any bugs or issues in game I find. I also had 2750 hours in STO on just my main toon alone. While I'm not a full on AAA studio type guy like some of the big name companies I know what I'm doing. Recently I have also started working on a near full rebalancing mod for Space Engineers. I can keep going but I think you get the idea. I know mechanics, I know how they work, and I know games.

    As for a kick system I have seen them and how they work in other games. I have seen games that have them and have made them work for YEARS with World of Warcraft and SWTOR being prime examples of the kick system. Those games do not have some mega huge abuse problem with the kick system you seem to think would happen here. Is there people that try to abuse it, yes there is, but again talking maybe 1% and I can count on one hand personally how many times I've seen it happen. For public runs, it's established fact that kick systems do work. Until the kick system was implemented in WoW, trolling, AFKing and the like were rampant. Once they implemented the kick system and those folks could actually be booted from runs, those problems largely went away. Is it perfect, no its not, but it was a dramatic improvement.

    I find it amusing that you say only about 1% of the population in STO actually AFK or troll in runs, and because of that there's no problem. Then you turn around and use one group of people who shall not be named, who made up far less than 1% of the playerbase in STO, as the reason why a kick system shouldn't be implemented. So about 1% of the population trolling and going AFK in runs isn't a problem, but far less than 1% trying to abuse the kick system IS a problem. That's a little thing called hypocritical logic and a double standard. So which one is it dude, either 1% of the playerbase causing issues by your own standards is a problem, or it's not. You don't get to have it both ways if you're intent on presenting a logical argument. Trying to have it both ways is a little thing called being in denial. Making any excuse for why it won't work.

    Also answer me this. You say that you run with fleetmates, family, and friends all the time, and only about 1% of the playerbase actually tries to troll runs or AFK in those runs. By your own admission you view running with family, friends, and fleetmates as 100% abuse proof. By your own logic, unless you joined a public queue, you would never encounter the vote kick system. Also by your own admission and logic, if folks do decide to join a public queue, they should accept the consequences. So since you won't encounter the vote kick system unless you deliberately put yourself in a position to encounter it, what are you afraid of? Why are you so scared of a system you won't encounter unless you decide to encounter it? By your own logic only about 1% of the game's population actually trolls and tries to AFK runs, and you don't do public runs anyways, so what are you afraid of? Why fear something that you claim to already have the solution for and will never encounter?
    valoreah wrote: »
    [
    No one is suggesting you do not have a voice. You do. Use it. Socialize. Engage others and get to know them and help them get to know you. Make friends. Play together how you all like and never deal with any AFKer again. How much time are you investing in socializing to find other like minded players? Do you want to solve your problem yourself or not? I am fairly confident I already know the answer, I am just curious to hear your reply.

    Just as an experiment, I have quite a lot of free time this weekend, so I am going to do nothing but join random TFOs every day. I will report back in this thread how many random TFOs I joined and how many AFK players there were. Honestly, I do not see AFK players being as pervasive and the huge issue others are portraying it as. We will see.

    Now we've arrived at the paradoxical part of your post. Let's not pretend like we both don't know what's going to happen here.
    -If I tell you that I don't have that many fleetmates or I don't talk to folks that much in game, you're going to accuse me of being anti-social. You'll then say the reason I've had issues before is that I don't socialize enough and haven't tried hard enough to make friends, and there's no problem.
    -If I tell you that I talk to fleetmates and friends daily, you're going to try to say "why aren't you running stuff with them then" and try to say I'm making a mountain out of an ant-hill. You'll try to say the problem is only in my head and I'm just wanting to impose my will on others and there's no problem at all.

    No matter which way I answer you're going to spin it to be my fault, and try to push the "just form a private" run mantra. It won't matter what myself or anyone else says, or how we tell you that the problem is public runs and not private ones. You'll try to spin it as, "I knew that's what you were going to say." So instead I'm going to ask you, where do you think I fall in that category? What do you think I do when I log into the game? Do I try to talk to folks or am anti-social? Clearly you have an opinion or you wouldn't word your post the way you did. So you tell me, what do you think it is?

    Finally on this particular point, the line in bold is the problem. Because you personally don't see it, or refuse to see it either one, it's automatically not a problem.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Wanted to report my findings here. I spent several hours Friday evening, Saturday and Sunday playing nothing but RTFOs. I am playing on EST and played in the evening Friday and throughout the day on Saturday and Sunday. I did nothing but select RTFOs.

    My findings were;
    1. Out of 34 RTFOs, there were zero AFK players. I did see two different people in separate TFOs "directing" the team on how they thought everyone should be playing. Every other player started the mission, did their thing and then left when complete. Personally, I find it a little sad that most people do not even bother to say hello to their fellow players.
    2. Discussing this experiment with fleetmates, one of our more hardcore members said they had run over 120 RTFOs over the past week or so and never once saw anyone AFK.
    3. Now I will not say there are no AFK players ever as I have seen them on the very rare occasion, such as the First Contact Day event, which their being AFK does not impact anyone anyway. However, from my perspective players saying they encounter other players constantly going AFK every TFO is a gross exaggeration.

    I can provide the actual breakdown of the specific RTFOs I ran if anyone would like to see it.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Apologies, this was on PC. I do not own a console so I cannot speak to what goes on there. There are many here who claim AFK players are rampant regardless of platform. I just wanted to add my observations for what I experienced on PC doing RTFOs.

    As expected, you've ran your "experiment" and it conveniently you got exactly the conclusion you wanted. If you actually ran the amount of TFOs you said and encountered no issues, then I'm glad you didn't run into any problems. With that said however, you'll have to excuse my skepticism that it conveniently ran so smooth when you were looking for it to do exactly that. You've got several problems with your experiment and methodology.
    -First up is the line in bold. By your own admission you only did "select" TFOs, meaning you purposefully excluded some of them, so it was not a truly random sample if you are purposefully excluding certain TFOs.
    -Second, there is no documentation of these TFO's presented, but only your word. You have not presented video evidence that can be clearly verified, which also shows the time and date of the queue.
    -Third, the example of your fleetmate is anecdotal hearsay. It means nothing without some kind of documentation to back it up.
    -Fourth, this was done on PC and not the PS4 as the OP indicated. So if the goal is trying to demonstrate they were exaggerating, this experiment is not valid. It's like saying the roof of your house doesn't leak, so your neighbor must be exaggerating when he says his roof does leak.

    I will grant you that saying someone goes AFK in a TFO is probably an exaggeration. However I will maintain that AFKing and trolling happens enough in TFOs that folks should have the kick option for public queues.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,061 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    Dude you need to stop reading stuff into what I said that's simply not there.

    I suggest you may need to follow your own advice here.
    You previously made the claim that we cannot change or control the behavior of people. I gave you examples of how you can in fact control and modify the behavior of people. Nothing more nothing less.

    Your examples do not work. This game has a ToS and EULA, but some still break it. Countries have many laws, but people still break them and commit crimes. Parents set boundaries for their children, but children still push those boundaries and rebel.
    Second, your example regarding fleets fails because fleets are a private matter among the members and does not concern the general public like a TFO does.

    It does not fail. Fleets do not need Cryptic to get involved. Neither would TFOs were people to use the tools available to them.
    Much like a trading card game like Magic the Gathering, Yugioh, Pokemon etc. You can have whatever house rules you like when playing private games, but if you're going to interact with the public and go to public events, there are certain rules and decorum you must abide by. Otherwise they have the right to make you leave. As long as you abide by the rules you will never run into issues with most events or places. Should one however violate the rules or start acting like a tool and get asked to leave, that's not them "imposing their will on you" or trying to "rig the dice to get the outcome you want". That's purely you having violated the rules or having been a tool and them asking you to leave for the others there. If you are doing something within reason to harm their gameplay, they have every right to boot you.

    Show us where in the ToS or EULA it states you must complete optional objectives in a TFO and if you do not, you are eligible to be kicked from a team. This is clearly something that will happen since several people here have suggested it is a possible reason to kick someone.
    Unfortunately that IS how life works. By your own logic, if you don't want to worry about the vote kick feature ever being an issue, you should team up with your fleetmates and do nothing but private runs. Also by your own admission, you already run near exclusively with fleetmates or friends anyways, meaning you complained about a tool that will never effect you by your own logic.

    You still are not getting it. Yes, I run almost exclusively with friends and in doing so, we never see an AFKer or other "tools" as you put it. This method works. We have no need for a vote kick feature because as adults, we handle our gameplay experience ourselves. Form your own teams and there is zero need for a vote kick feature. This is not rocket science.
    On this point you have royally missed the point of what I have been saying. There is a massive disconnect between what I an others are proposing, vs what you think we're saying. I don't expect to jump into a TFO run and start barking orders like I'm some sort of general.

    Well no, you are essentially doing exactly that. You are literally posting here your expectations of how you believe everyone should play, and if others do not live up to your expectations, you want to boot them from your team. What is sad is, you are so consumed by your point of view you cannot see that I actually agree with you and empathize with your position. You should have fun when you play and not have to worry about other people not playing the way you like. No one is suggesting otherwise. All I am doing is suggesting that developing a vote kick system is not necessary. Try being sociable with fellow players and form your own teams. If you do not want to do that or do not have any friends on line at the time, that is fine, but accept the consequences of your decision in joining RTFOs. You made the choice to join, you should accept that not everyone may play how you want them to.

    If all of the people who have complained about this in the various posts on this very topic over the years formed their own fleet and teamed together, you all would never have seen an AFKer or "tool" ever again and this would be a non-issue for all of you. But that takes just a little effort and work, which apparently is too much for some people.
    I do however expect that if someone joins a queue with clearly defined objectives that folks follow the objectives of the queue and actively participate. If they're not going to try to participate and contribute to the team in some way, or are going to deliberately try to foul up the run, they have no business or right to be in that queue.

    I understand and heard you the first 100 times you said this very same thing. What I will continue to offer is vote kicking is not going to stop this - only add to it - and offer you a solution to your problem that exists right now.
    This is where it comes full circle back to the disconnect yet again. This assumes once again that the person in question has friends or fleetmates online to run something with. Folks will not always have friends or fleetmates online to run with, regardless of how social they are. THAT is what I have tried to get you to see. What happens then? What are they to do? By the logic I have seen displayed in your posts, it seems their only option is to simply roll the dice and pray to Q they get a good group. If they are unlucky enough to get a bad group, then that's just a consequence they'll have to accept for not putting in enough work to have more friends. Afterall giving him and others in that group a tool to boot the bad seed would just be trying to rig the outcome in their favor.

    I never once assumed anything with regard to people always having enough friends online at any given time to form a team, so you are once again misunderstanding me or being disingenuous. I also never said anyone is out of luck if they have no friends on line. They are more than welcome to join as many RTFOs as they like. With that said, they should also accept the consequences of that decision in that they may not always get the ideal teammates. From my recent experience, this issue of "trolls" and AFKers does not seem to be anywhere as bad as others are claiming it to be.

    You as an adult should be deciding what matters more to you - investing some time to find good teammates to enhance your gaming experience or not. Just yesterday I saw many people asking if anyone wanted to team up for a TFO run in the various public LFG channels. There are plenty of good players out there who are very easy to link up with.
    It's also irrefutable fact that not everyone will always have friends and fleetmates on to form their own team. Otherwise see above. Current tools are insufficient on their own to address when issues like this come up. Nor should folks always have to rely on the "form your own team" method or be locked out of public content.

    I never suggested anyone should be locked out of public content. I also again disagree current tools are insufficient. Existing tools work perfectly when they are actually used.
    Once again see above, no one is wanting to become a general barking orders.

    That may be true for you and I. Does that mean everyone will act the same though? Since that answer is no, perhaps you are willing to get spammed by vote kick requests or deal with the drama that will certainly ensue over it. Not everyone will be though, or does that not matter since you are getting what you want?
    You're failing to see a distinction between public and private groups. The problem isn't with private groups, but public ones. What works for a private run will not necessarily work for a public run. The other key difference here is that in your AFK group example, those folks CHOSE to group together and do an AFK run, the folks being talked about here didn't. They joined a public run and went AFK or started to troll. There is a HUGE difference between the 2. The fact stands that folks joining a public group do not have the options to deal with trolls that a private group does.

    I absolutely understand the distinction between public and private teams. And yes, people do have options open to them with regard to what kind of team they join. If those same people had invested some time to find like minded players and formed their own team, those AFKers or trolls becomes a non issue.
    I said what I did because it sounded like you were dismissing what folks said out of hand who didn't have folks to run with, and then insinuating that's only the case because they're anti-social. Thus flaming others who did not agree with you as purely being anti-social.

    This is not at all what I said.
    I also NEVER said folks couldn't make friends. What I did say is that not everyone has the option to play with friends or fleetmates. that option is not always available to people when they are on. So again, what do they do?

    Posting to one of the many in-game public channels looking for teammates? Asking on Discord or other social media available if there is anyone who would like to team up? Engaging others in conversation they see in RTFOs who are not AFK? Or are you suggesting that when someone logs in and they have no friends online at the time, there are no other decent players online?
    But that is what you're suggesting actually only not in those kinds of words. You claim you're not saying that folks should simply have to "suck it up and deal" if/when they run into a troll in public runs, and folks shouldn't have to rely exclusively on fleets and private runs to get anything done. Yet with the bolded section, that's exactly what you're doing only not in those exact words. You're basically saying that folks should always run with friends and fleetmates, and if they decide not to do so, or those friends and fleetmates aren't on, then they're just SoL and should just "accept the consequences" of their actions and accept the trolling. You can say you're not all day long but by your own words you keep pushing "run with fleetmates and friends or accept the consequences" while making excuses for the trolls. If folks have fleetmates and friends on they can run with, that's great, but you keep dodging the question of what happens when those folks aren't available. You also fail do differentiate between public runs and private runs.

    You're basically saying, "I run private runs and I have no issues. Therefore there can't be any issues in public runs. Those that have issues are only having issues are having issues because they didn't run private groups like I do. Folks should either run privately all the time or accept the consequences of choosing a public run since they chose to forgo the benefit of friends and fleetmates." In other words, it dismisses the problem out of hand then blames the person for having the problem to start with in a condescending way and suggesting that if they would just be more like you they wouldn't have a problem. Seriously dude in what universe do you honestly think blaming the victim for something outside of their control is cool? In what universe do you honestly think people aren't going to have an issue with suggesting folks should just "suck it up and deal with and accept the consequences of your actions." It's essentially stopping short of saying folks deserve it for not playing private runs. Good grief man.

    I never suggested there are no issues in public RTFOs, quite the contrary in fact. Based on my play experience, in my opinion the problems are nowhere near as bad as you and some others are claiming it to be. From what I see, AFK players are a very tiny fraction of the overall players out there, which negates the need for a vote kick system.

    I am also curious what universe you are in where you feel that you are the victim and everything is totally out of your control here? Are you suggesting you are somehow locked out of chat in-game or cannot create a friends list or join a fleet? Are you the single solitary player online when you log in? Without question, the situation is well within your control, you just seem to refuse to want to do anything about it for yourself.

    Honestly, I sometimes struggle to understand how the point is lost on you. Let me be very clear - there are idiots in this game. We all know it, we have all seen them and unfortunately encountered them from time to time over the years. Where you and I differ is on how we approach a solution to dealing with them. I choose to take control of the situation for myself and team near exclusively with known people. You want to pass that off that effort onto someone else to do it for you. Putting in a little effort on my own to make my play time more enjoyable solves the problem for me entirely. In my opinion, your solution does not solve the problem entirely and further compounds it by giving these few trolls you are so worried about yet another tool to inflict their antics on others.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,061 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    As expected, you've ran your "experiment" and it conveniently you got exactly the conclusion you wanted. If you actually ran the amount of TFOs you said and encountered no issues, then I'm glad you didn't run into any problems. With that said however, you'll have to excuse my skepticism that it conveniently ran so smooth when you were looking for it to do exactly that. You've got several problems with your experiment and methodology.
    -First up is the line in bold. By your own admission you only did "select" TFOs, meaning you purposefully excluded some of them, so it was not a truly random sample if you are purposefully excluding certain TFOs.
    -Second, there is no documentation of these TFO's presented, but only your word. You have not presented video evidence that can be clearly verified, which also shows the time and date of the queue.
    -Third, the example of your fleetmate is anecdotal hearsay. It means nothing without some kind of documentation to back it up.
    -Fourth, this was done on PC and not the PS4 as the OP indicated. So if the goal is trying to demonstrate they were exaggerating, this experiment is not valid. It's like saying the roof of your house doesn't leak, so your neighbor must be exaggerating when he says his roof does leak.

    I will grant you that saying someone goes AFK in a TFO is probably an exaggeration. However I will maintain that AFKing and trolling happens enough in TFOs that folks should have the kick option for public queues.

    You (again) misread what I wrote. I wrote I selected nothing but RTFOs. The R in RTFO stands for RANDOM. I did not choose select TFOs from the available list to run. I used the "Join Random" button to join RANDOM TFOs. Furthermore, if this AFK problem were so rampant and pervasive as you suggest it is, I should have encountered AFKers in any TFO regardless whether I chose which one to run or selected to join a random one.

    You also missed this -
    valoreah wrote: »
    Apologies, this was on PC. I do not own a console so I cannot speak to what goes on there. There are many here who claim AFK players are rampant regardless of platform. I just wanted to add my observations for what I experienced on PC doing RTFOs.

    Those trying to claim AFK players are a rampant problem on PC were whom I was addressing.

    I must say, while I fully expected it, I find the hypocritical double standard you are applying to me utterly hilarious. You are very quick to claim I am making up everything, have no evidence other than my word or anecdotal conversations, yet we all should take everything you or others say as gospel. Why? Because you are a "community moderator"? That is very, very funny indeed. You are the one claiming this problem is so prevalent and pervasive that we absolutely need a vote kick system to curtail it. You should be the one posting videos or providing other evidence to back up your claim.

    Anyway, I absolutely welcome your skepticism and have no objection to anyone being skeptical. Skepticism is a very healthy thing. I offer to team up with you (or anyone really) anytime I am able for as many RTFOs as we can run together to see just how rampant your perceived problem is. All I ask is that you truly be honest and post honest results when our playtime is over. I will give you my word and promise to do the same. I will be happy to record what TFOs were run and at what time and whether or not there were any AFK players.



    Post edited by valoreah on
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    We, as a collective of players, go through this negative circumstance every time Cryptic tosses at us a TFO like this.

    Unfortunately there will always be a few bad actors sponging off the efforts of others.

    I was once told, long ago, by customer service, since I had reported such lack of participation that if I placed the other player on my "/Ignore" list it will make it to where I won't be teamed-up with that player again.

    I found this to be false, not sure why, since a few days later I was teamed-up with a particular player again despite them being on my /Ignore list.

    If this system mechanic did work & players utilized it I think, long-term, this would create an ever tightening net around such bad actors to where they'd only be teamed-up with each other.

    Otherwise it's a bit of a pot-luck of possible irritation when doing a random TFO for a campaign event.

    Also, am I thinking of another game from long ago, but didn't STO have a selective "kick-feature" at one time?
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    valoreah wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    I've seen it in a few games. Games like CoD also have an auto-kick that will kick you out of a match when it detects afk/leeching behaviour. The technology is there out there already.

    The AFK penalty exists here already and we have already seen that it has issues.

    ^ Simply this. It's really very simple: if you allow ppl to misbehave, some of them will. And if you install punitive measures to combat that (like group-kick), the drawnbacks of those will far outweigh the benefits.

    Besides, and I've already said this -- but repeating oneself is apparently the norm in this thread, lol -- at Advanced, the game is so riduculously easy, the odd person AFK-ing matters none. And at Elite, only highly motivated premade groups tend to do those, so there it's not even an issue to begin with.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • scotty74321scotty74321 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    cryptic logic is you still get the rewards even by not contributing so thats what some will do. SO you either just pretend they dont exist, or leave the TFO take a leaver penalty on your head load in a different toon and roll the TFO dice again.
    (spelling)
    Laddy, don't you think you should... rephrase that??
  • baronvonboombaronvonboom Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    Apologies for jumping on the back of this a week later but rather that then start the same ball rolling again in another thread.

    Anyway.
    At the moment due to the event the amount of AFK players is beyond ridiculous, every match theres been at least one & this nonchalance is becoming more prevalent everywhere.
    People just popping on their cloak & going minimum impulse to trundle through random tfos they dont like while happily ignoring team chat but still rolling on loot.

    If you excuse the French its TRIBBLE audacious & chiefly due to either a report system that doesnt work or other player apathy.
    I mean even when you mention it in chat theres nothing but silence, nobody cares nor does anything. Even when ignoring them removes them from playing with you, so even if you dont report at the very least ignore them & make the playable pool for them smaller & smaller.

    I know I know its nothing new, tale as old as time & by adding proper removal features we open ourselves to other avenues of abuse. Well for me im at the stage that I would take that hit even if it meant I got booted from the occasional tfo.

    As for the events & people farming it for the lobi prize they should just copy the existing lobi +store & make special bound versions of them so that everything purchased with them is also bound, ships an all.
    Maybe the outcry over that would induce people to act on AFKrs they see in game but who the TRIBBLE am i kidding.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,061 Arc User
    At the moment due to the event the amount of AFK players is beyond ridiculous, every match theres been at least one & this nonchalance is becoming more prevalent everywhere.

    Is this on PC or console? I am on PC and have run the Breach event every evening for the past 14 days and not seen a single AFK player. Not saying you are not seeing them, just curious what platform you are on.

    Since my earlier post in the thread, I have been devoting more play time to joining random TFOs and to be honest, I have yet to see anyone AFK. I have seen a few people berating others about optionals getting missed with one person even rage quitting an Azure Nebula over it, beyond that not an AFK player to be found.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • sleepwalker#8777 sleepwalker Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    hello, and thanks everyone for your interrest on this topic!
    right now, we have a bonus-marks-event on ps4 and it is getting rediculous now.. there is something happening now in nearly EVERY single TFO! ..and to be honest, i am thinking about leaving this game..

    *) in the breach, they go for the boss etc, without rescuing any ships or closing hangar doors
    *) in the vault, they just park somewhere, while the weavers spinning the net
    *) in undine assault, they go for the boss of course without closing errants
    *) in borg disconencted, they dont rescue the ships anymore
    *) in transdimensional tactics, they attack the boss, before others even activated their suit, get stuck then at the start point
    *) in storming the spire, people not spreading out and defending the landing plattforms
    *) in bug hunt, nonone is defending the npc (at the end) anymore
    *) in kitomer vortex, they dont stop probes from entering the portal
    *) in gateway to grethor, you have 4 people on 1 side, and only 1 on the other side (and somehow still not closing green portals)
    *) in counterpoint, they dont close the portals at the beginning, and not delivering enter-troops
    *) in days of doom, 3 people instant leave
    *) in gravity kills, only 2 guys collect particles
    *) dranuur gauntlet, they dont repair smoking broken satellites
    *) dranuur beach assault, NOONE is defending any generators
    *) azure nebula, people destroying ships, but "dont have time" to stop the tracor beams
    *) mycelian realm, if you get to close to some people, they dont feel like placing crystals anymore
    AND OF COURSE THERE IS SOMEONE AFK IN AT LEAST EVERY 2nd TFO!

    what is going on here???
    eigther the people getting dummer or there are trolls around trying to fk up everything they possible can

    something has to change!!
    eigther we get the ability to vote people out of a team..
    or the mark-payout-system has to change, so those people get less marks (MUCH LESS), and people who are actively contributing getting more (MUCH MORE)

  • baronvonboombaronvonboom Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »

    Is this on PC or console?

    PC
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,061 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    hello, and thanks everyone for your interrest on this topic!
    right now, we have a bonus-marks-event on ps4 and it is getting rediculous now.. there is something happening now in nearly EVERY single TFO! ..and to be honest, i am thinking about leaving this game..

    *) in the breach, they go for the boss etc, without rescuing any ships or closing hangar doors
    *) in the vault, they just park somewhere, while the weavers spinning the net
    *) in undine assault, they go for the boss of course without closing errants
    *) in borg disconencted, they dont rescue the ships anymore
    *) in transdimensional tactics, they attack the boss, before others even activated their suit, get stuck then at the start point
    *) in storming the spire, people not spreading out and defending the landing plattforms
    *) in bug hunt, nonone is defending the npc (at the end) anymore
    *) in kitomer vortex, they dont stop probes from entering the portal
    *) in gateway to grethor, you have 4 people on 1 side, and only 1 on the other side (and somehow still not closing green portals)
    *) in counterpoint, they dont close the portals at the beginning, and not delivering enter-troops
    *) in days of doom, 3 people instant leave
    *) in gravity kills, only 2 guys collect particles
    *) dranuur gauntlet, they dont repair smoking broken satellites
    *) dranuur beach assault, NOONE is defending any generators
    *) azure nebula, people destroying ships, but "dont have time" to stop the tracor beams
    *) mycelian realm, if you get to close to some people, they dont feel like placing crystals anymore
    AND OF COURSE THERE IS SOMEONE AFK IN AT LEAST EVERY 2nd TFO!

    what is going on here???
    eigther the people getting dummer or there are trolls around trying to fk up everything they possible can

    Please do not take offense to any of this as it is not meant as a personal insult, however most everything you are citing here as reasons for why a vote kick system is needed is proving the exact opposite by showing why a vote kick would be a terrible idea.

    First, outside of Elite queues, optionals in TFOs are just that - optional - as in not a requirement to complete the overall mission. Second, there really is more than one way to play these TFOs, so expecting 4 other random people to fall in line like a well oiled machine to play exactly as you think they should is not a realistic expectation. Third, in your example of "3 people instantly leaving" the Days of Doom TFO, I am not quite sure how you feel a vote kick would work given those people are no longer on a team to be kicked.

    I can only speak for myself here, given the reasons you provided here (and as others have in other threads on the same topic), I definitely would not want to get spammed with vote kick requests because someone else on a RTFO team thinks other people are "not playing correctly."
    something has to change!!

    Absolutely agreed keeping in mind your behavior is one of those things that can - and IMO should - change. You already have the ability to guide a team and kick anyone whom you feel is not up to your standards right now if you invest the small amount of time needed to form your own teams.
    eigther the people getting dummer or there are trolls around trying to fk up everything they possible can

    If there truly are that many trolls, why would you want to give them yet another tool to use against you?

    Post edited by valoreah on
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,061 Arc User
    PC

    Interesting. My experience is radically different. I have yet to see a single AFK player in a RTFO over the past 2couple of weeks.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    I don't consider any non-participation till after the big ol' side-door blow-up time.

    In fact, if a cloaked &/or swift pilot buzzes through the top part to get there quicker I appreciate it.

    After that if they don't move or just move to the big front door closest to the big core I consider them not participating lol then again players that have to shoot the ?-cores are annoying too.

    Reporting any non-participating players though nowadays I don't think does any good.

    Anytime it happens I catch myself leaning more towards darkbladejk's & others' kick-vote election idea but still think it would be better to just implement: don't want to be grouped with a non-participation player then just place on /ignore & then the system won't group you with them. A variant of that would be for Cryptic to add another tab like a "persona non grata" so they won't be /ignored in chat but you won't be grouped with. There's still a few caveats I can think of, but if it worked I think it would slowly tighten a net around constant non-participators until they had to be grouped with themselves.
  • sleepwalker#8777 sleepwalker Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    @foppotee, this is a very nice idea ;)
    i think, there would be many possible ways to get a system done, where both types of players would get what they want..
    a vote/kick system just would be the easiest to implement.

    another solution would be to have something, that works like the honor system in RDO.. where people have eighter positive or negative honor, which comes automatically form their gameplay.
    "honor" would not be a fitting name for sto, but i am sure the devs could come up with a nice name for it ;)
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,061 Arc User
    I don't consider any non-participation till after the big ol' side-door blow-up time.

    In fact, if a cloaked &/or swift pilot buzzes through the top part to get there quicker I appreciate it.

    After that if they don't move or just move to the big front door closest to the big core I consider them not participating lol then again players that have to shoot the ?-cores are annoying too.

    Reporting any non-participating players though nowadays I don't think does any good.

    Anytime it happens I catch myself leaning more towards darkbladejk's & others' kick-vote election idea but still think it would be better to just implement: don't want to be grouped with a non-participation player then just place on /ignore & then the system won't group you with them. A variant of that would be for Cryptic to add another tab like a "persona non grata" so they won't be /ignored in chat but you won't be grouped with. There's still a few caveats I can think of, but if it worked I think it would slowly tighten a net around constant non-participators until they had to be grouped with themselves.

    While more elegant a solution as it prevents players from getting spammed with unwanted vote kick requests, this is still subject to abuse in a similar fashion to chat reporting/banning.
    @foppotee, this is a very nice idea ;)
    i think, there would be many possible ways to get a system done, where both types of players would get what they want..
    a vote/kick system just would be the easiest to implement.

    another solution would be to have something, that works like the honor system in RDO.. where people have eighter positive or negative honor, which comes automatically form their gameplay.
    "honor" would not be a fitting name for sto, but i am sure the devs could come up with a nice name for it ;)

    The "honor" system is an interesting idea although I believe it would run into the same issues the current AFK system does.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • sleepwalker#8777 sleepwalker Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    the way i imagne the honor system, it would handle the afk-palyer very well, at least on the positive-honor side..
    of course the tfo-system should seperate them, if enough players are around..
    ..and bring them only together, if there is a lack of people qued for a particular tfo.. then the honor-system could be temporary taken offline, but inform the players with a message(or an icon)!

    +) people active going for optional targets will get positive honor
    -) people not going for optional targets, will get negative honor
    -) afk-players, will get (more?) negative honor
    -) people not activley contributing, to even mission goals, get negative honor
    /) optional targets, that are somehow time related, could be excluded from the honor system

    **) a benefit from having VERY HIGH positive honor, could be a granted access to elite random TFOs - how about that? ;)
    **) the benefit from negative honor, would be that they could do whatever they want in a TFO, without beeing bothered by people, which are taking TFOs more serious

    i can impossible imagine anything that people could have against such a system, except those "poor" leechers lol
  • sleepwalker#8777 sleepwalker Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    about the vote/kicks..

    @valoreah
    ESO and GTA are 2 games, with a kick-system.. and from my experience, there it is no problem at all.
    especially in eso, it just lead to people taking ques very serious, and everyone is performing the best way he possible can.
    AFKers usually write a msg in group chat "sorry guys, AFK for 2 mins" and people usually politely wait untill he comes back.

    kicking happends quite rarly and in even MUCH MORE rare cases, someone was spamming a kick-request. as i remember, in gta it is not even possible to spam it. also in gta, the subject of vote-kick is getting a message, something like "someone is voting to kick you, change your behavior".. which i find a very fair thing..

    i have to admit, in realy realy rare cases (like in 0.01%), i got kicked right after joining a team.. before i could even show how i perform. i just assumed, they somehow wanted to be alone in that particular game, or kicked me because of my relative high level in gta.
    i was fully ok with that, and my only downside was, that i had to que again - no problem at all

    @coldnapalm
    the current system is abused already - ON A REGULAR BASIS!
    a system that potentionally can be abused, and from my experince rarly is, is still miles better.
    ..also i could say the same about the "speedrunners".. if you want to complete a que quick as possible (without doing any sidetask), you can make a private que ;)
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,133 Arc User
    Hmm, earlier in this thread I mentioned that toxicity wasn't very common in STO, but now I wonder if that's just because I don't socialize much in-game. Today I had an endeavor for 20 Voth ground kills, so I went to the Dyson ground battlezone. I killed one Voth and had someone whisper me "So your specialty is leeching?" and then put me on ignore before I could ask what that was even supposed to mean. I typically avoid battlezones cause I don't find them enjoyable, they're a very poor implementation of open-world content imo, and ground BZs in particular I avoid because I dislike ground combat (I'm more than capable of doing it, I just think the ground gameplay is horrendous).

    lmao - i would have followed him and took kills all day after that comment. :)
    meh

  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,133 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Hmm, earlier in this thread I mentioned that toxicity wasn't very common in STO, but now I wonder if that's just because I don't socialize much in-game. Today I had an endeavor for 20 Voth ground kills, so I went to the Dyson ground battlezone. I killed one Voth and had someone whisper me "So your specialty is leeching?" and then put me on ignore before I could ask what that was even supposed to mean. I typically avoid battlezones cause I don't find them enjoyable, they're a very poor implementation of open-world content imo, and ground BZs in particular I avoid because I dislike ground combat (I'm more than capable of doing it, I just think the ground gameplay is horrendous).

    lmao - i would have followed him and took kills all day after that comment. :)

    Right...because the best way to deal with toxic players is to be toxic right back at them.... :(

    its an open field. if this one kill tripped this player so much to whisper said statement, then, yes, they deserve to be trolled at that point. its a game. if you cant share the BZ with others, then maybe dont play. so again...yeah, id do it.
    how do you deal with a bully? fight back. same concept my friend.

    and with that, im out. these threads get nowhere and people start taking things too personal.
    meh

Sign In or Register to comment.