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Legendary bundle ship stats have been updated
thegrandnagus1
Member Posts: 5,166 Arc User
While this clearly does not solve a lot of the problems people have with this bundle, it does prove one thing: they are listening to feedback. No, they may not agree with all of the feedback. And no, they may not make changes based on all of the feedback. But at least SOME of the feedback resulted in these improvements.
So to people who say things like "don't complain, vote with your wallet"...
You were wrong. If people had not complained at all and just "voted with their wallet", these changes would not have been made.
To the people who have been defending bad stats this whole time and pretending like they were just fine...
You were wrong. If the stats had been fine, Cryptic wouldn't have made these changes.
No, I still won't be buying this bundle; but at least some improvements have been made because of the negative feedback. And to those who are buying, you can thank the people who have been complaining about the stats for the improvements you just got.
Post edited by thegrandnagus1 on
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At least the turnrate bumps to the Excel to 8 and Vor'cha to 10 (cut off in the pic on the forum Twitter embed) are understandable and asked for.
My central hangup with the pack has always - always - been the exorbitant price they are asking for it. Distilled down to its core, the 'deal' is 200 USD for 4 ships. Yes, there are a lot of other things in the bundle that some (but not all) people might need or want. But the exclusive items are those 4 vessels (and, I guess, holo Worf). Everything else I can buy independently... and, thus, if I don't have a burning need for those extras, they don't have value to me.
It's $200 for 4 ships and a BOFF. It's highway robbery. It will remain highway robbery. And that's the element that they aren't budging on. So color me still immensely unsatisfied.
Also, the turn rate on the Excelsior still sucks. That's the same as my Legendary Sovereign. You really mean to tell me that an Excelsior cannot out-turn a ship twice its size?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Yet, here we are.. the bulk of us seem to disapprove of the bundle, and they keep changing things and adding things to address the backlash.
Don't get me wrong, they're acting on player feedback and that's good.. no, that's great. I commend them for listening and acting accordingly even though I don't personally believe the changes are coming in the right areas. Again, my preferred change is to see some of the 'bloat' removed to lower the cost, but they do not seem to want to go that direction so ok, I accept it.
I just think it's odd that when all the sites are active with things like calls for a T6 Nova, we're told that we represent a minority, but in a case like this.. they seem to consider us a significant enough voice to make changes for the 3rd time (Vor'cha upped to 9.5 Turn, then they added 500 Lobi.)
I am still not in the market for this because I don't want the 'bloat,' but them continuing to consider feedback is a very positive trend and one I hope continues. Sure, it might not be what I personally want.. but it's progress and I commend them for it.
Both the consoles are low tier. Good question as to if it's a passive or active. Buffs to older consoles, mostly to make them usable on any ship in the past, have been done on a case-by-case basis and this probably doesn't mean anything beyond these two consoles will be touched due to this update.
After all it was PWE that said no to account unlocks for gamblebox, lobi, etc ships. A thing that still burns me up.
Kael said in the livestream that those buffs will be retroactive.
I’m amazed. It appears that one can be aboard for almost a decade and still be able to learn new lessons. Here are mine:
1) My subjective views of new releases do have an objective basis. Let’s voice them!
2) The two forum mods around here have authority over forum rules but not over objectivity in STO!
3) Cryptic at least tries to view players and devs as team and not adversaries! They don’t know entirely how and probably have a hard time but the community is able to help if they are willing to listen.
I feel a bit like celebrating the 11th anniversary now. Not because of the pack in particular but simply because I get the impression that Cryptic is willing to adjust in light of player’s feedback. I have loaded my donation shotgun with 200 bucks after reading this post. During the next zen purchase sale, it’s yours Cryptic. No idea what I make with it yet, just take it as birthday present from me for having a good time this year.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Can't say I don't understand your view point.
One thing I found particular: some of these changes are not to the "legendary" B'rel but will affect it whereas some other changes are directly to the "legendary" Excelsior.
I'll dare say the primary complaint about this "legendary" B'rel is the weapon layout yet no change to a 5/1/X. Meanwhile this "legendary" B'rel still is less than in hull/shield compared to: Temer, Sirena, Baltim, Miradorn, Plesh Tral, & the fleet M'Chla, by the numbers. However, it might be better or favored in seating & abilities.
I'm impressed with the Raider Flanking improvements (usually 1/2ed for PvP I think) & found this unexpected.
Subspace Jumper receiving Armor Pen is nice but how much?
The Shield Destabilizer change is currently the most interesting since lacking details. Does it still do: -70 shield damage to all enemy shields per second & reduce the shield power by affected foes by 15% (according to the sto.gamepedia.com)? I ask because:
"now deals massive damage split evenly among five targets" to me could mean a "nerfing" of sorts depending upon the actual numbers of "massive" & the word "now" could mean replacing & not in addition to. If this console is no longer going to shield-drain then I probably won't want any Skill Points placed into Shield Drain Expertise anymore if I was trying to optimize the console & going for a shield-drain approach.
Some valid question/concern, I wondered the same.
As so often the advertisement description has little to no value. One has to wait and see how it plays out in practice. Some will buy it and then share the information.
Not getting the pack remains the prudent course of action for sure. After cryptics reaction here I made my peace buy buying some zen for the aniversary but will simply end up spending it on something different.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Changes were made because constructive criticism was given and folks were going to vote with their wallets and not buy the pack. Constructive criticism is saying "If the ship had stats X instead of stats Y I would certainly get the pack." Constructive criticism is saying "I think the ship appears weak compared to this ship that was released previously and is not worth the buy in its current form." Constructive criticism is saying "I would buy the pack if we got less fluff with it," hence part of why they added the lobi, folks can get at least 2 pieces of lobi gear for the ship right away if they chose. in cracking the promo packs you're looking at a little over 600 lobi assuming you don't get a ship. That's a full space set of lobi gear.
Folks providing constructive criticism and who were going to vote with their wallet got them to implement changes. The folks who always call ships objectively bad don't meet their arbitrary standards of what a ship should be, did not.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
What I liked about this post was the absence of huffing, puffing & barking towards others & posting more objective & even subjective concepts.
I've never understood claiming to quell flaming by lobbing insults, but I've probably been guilty of it.
"A few things here a couple of folks need to understand. You are not the arbiters of what is a good or bad ship. It's simply ships existing, and you having an opinion, nothing more nothing less." Sage-advise we should all take a mental-note of including Community Moderators sometimes.
I'm not even sure if I care why the changes were made, I think they were positive changes.
Spot on. I always do my best to be constructive with the view that Cryptic is still 'God'.
However, I don't understand their justification to not produce a KDF Ship only bundle (This won't stop folk then demanding a ROM/Jem only Bundle, which they should). I don't understant why they haven't produced Ship only bundle, like the FED. I don't even think that Cryptic understand that to the players don't place the same value on Promo packs and Keys (which will probably be account-bound) than they do. They have an extremely high probability of being worthless. Lobi is the same. At most we could get a Lobi ship, which will be a single unlock, and most likely end up or already is in the Mudd store, and a full set of Lobi gear is of no use to my other mains either. All that fluff in the Fed pack, is not worth 10k Zen, and same with this bundle. When you have 30 toons across 2 platform, the value of that Lobi is only worth it, if you main 1 toon.
As to what ships are in there that I would fly, only the BoP appeals to me, and that's it. That's only because it's so compatible with all the Careers. Compared to the Fed pack I fly, the Intrepid, Crossfield, Odyssey, Donnie and Connie. I've had my monies worthy out of the Fed pack. I said the other day, if Cryptic cow-towed to player's demands to change layouts, then there's little point in buying other ships.
The account-unlock they need to drop. It's a damp squib of zero value considering how fast you can level to 65, and I do not see the number of new-to-STO players out-numbering the players that have been here long enough that would actually buy it.
The Ship slots will unlock on the toon you buy the pack, so you can't spread them across your account.
The Ship coupons and Upgrades are of worth, if you haven't already got what you need already.
The Worf Boff could be of value, depending on his traits, but if he has no Space traits, he's not of worth other than 'show-off' value. He would also have to fight off all my other canon Boff's
If the pack had the BoP, Vor'cha, Neg'Vhar, D7 and Bortasqu', I may have blinked, again if the pack was offered ships only. I have 2 platforms to play and fork over money to and approx £300 is waaaaaaaaay over my limit. Even £150 is just too much. I'm so glad I don't live with my parents, because they would execute me with how much I've invested into STO
In general I agree there is a bit of elitism in people who focus only on damage meta, if you are a person looking to pursue the damage meta 4/2 is objectively worse then 5/1. But if you just want a better b'rel it is technically better then a typical b'rel yes, both viewpoints are objectively true.
I find myself more in the camp that the price point is off base take 50$ more off it or made at least 2 more legendary Klingon ships and it be much closer to the value of the first legendary pack gave.
Honestly as a tank main I don't like the excelsior changes, but I'll live .10 less hull isn't the end of the world, but I guess I'll just stick to my legendary Galaxy though weirdly I have more hull on my legendary sovereign even though galaxy should be tougher. I think the hull mod was not properly put in, when they put the legendary galaxy in the game or some how their hull mods got switched... I'd have to do more testing.
I hope they will or have listened to some of the other criticism that has been leveled at them particularly flight deck carriers and other 3/3 carriers, that they will address this some how. The easy fix would be to just give all carriers cruiser weapon slots, make dreadnought carriers 5/3 and the others 4/4. But that solution would likely not make everyone happy.
Can't complain about the Excel and Vor'cha too much, other than BOFF seating on the Vor'cha.
However, as everyone points out, the real problem with this bundle remains the fluff. Give me a guaranteed infinity ship or promo ship instead of the randomized chance and you've added real value here. I'd say throw in the Kelvin BOP, but that one is already better than the legendary B'rel. The D9 would have been a great inclusion if they hooked it up with Negh'var parts.
Much as the B'rel and Vor'cha are underwhelming, they aren't what is holding back the pack so much. No one really likes the random chance BS. It is almost guaranteed to be zero value for your money.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I've even done a couple of escorts with full turrets so I'm never going to be part of any upper-echelon dps cliche but I'm okay with that & that's normally not what I'm aiming for. I feel adamant about if Cryptic wanted this "legendary" B'rel to be better & deserving pass just a title of legendary it would've been given the 5/1/X weapon layout. Is that the only way to be legendary? No, but it would've been 1 of the easier routes. According to the yesterday's livestream, Kael, stated it was "considered" & given a "hard-no". I feel a bit of ego at Cryptic might've influenced that decision. I disagree with you because by the numbers/stats it isn't better & I've illustrated that comparing it to other raiders, maybe the typical B'rel, & when it comes to the seating it could be better pending playstyle. I've never said it's the worst B'rel, but for this price I don't mind stating I expect it to better & darkbladejk or any other can feel free to twist that context if wanted.
I feel the bundle price is outrageous & inflated, especially given these recent times people have endured, & for what this bundle is offering. I concede though that's me & anyone that buys this bundle, though I'd advise against it, is helping all of us play STO, but also encouraging Cryptic to continue down this path.
Per this Excelsior & tanking I'd have to defer. My only usual tanking thoughts are just to survive. :-) I do understand that perhaps the Cryptic tinkerers have to trade-off a certain number in one stat to increase another & vice versa. I respect that nuance. That's why so many saw through this Vor'cha's 6.5 turn-rate when in the context of it's other stats & still a few were defending it, but then all's well when it was stated it was a misprint. I don't crunch the numbers usually, but I do think even with the Excelsior's new/better turn-rate the 1.45 hull is a bit too severe & maybe 1.5 would've been a better downgrade. At least one thing with such games as these is the constant need to re-evaluate & rebalance.
I've sort of been kicking myself for not buying that Mirror Galaxy Dread when it had that, so far, best sale price. I'm jsut not a costume enthusiast & that bundle had so much fluff. I considered it but only envisioned a Klingon piloting it &, at the time, the "command any ship" wasn't released yet. So I'll have to wait then reconsider.
If you buy it, I hope you enjoy it & are pleased. So far I'm not going to but it, then again, I'm not even currently piloting any of the (10) Legendary ships I bought.
But why does Cryptic not listen to constructive criticism: we would buy this pack if it wouldn't be loaded with bloat and the price would be fair.?
and
I would buy the pack if there were more KDF ships, like the D7 for example.
and
The T6 coupons are only good for old ships, as long as cryptic doesn't add a bug like with the Titan.
and
The 500 lobis are nice, I guess, but as you already mentioned only for gear...we can't get a ship with 500 lobis.
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People who already got the Targ and the cross faction ship unlock should get a lower price, because why buy something twice?
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The keys and the boxes are worthless for most of the players.
This all constructive and was stated on pretty much every social platform STO is on.
I bought the last years big pack but I don't see me spending so much money on this pack simply because I don't need the bloat, I have the Targ, I have the cross ship unlock and I'm not interested in the Vorcha (but I love the Ambassador, B'Rel and Excelsior). Add a D7 instead of the keys, boxes, targ and cross faction unlock, lower the pack to 150 and I'm in.
I thought of giving a crack at a all turret pilot ship build that does a lot of point blank zoom and boom stuff, just for fun lol. I was merely saying it better then the base b'rel, but I do agree it worse from a dps point of view then other raiders in the game, possible even from a seating view point, but the b'rel has a lot of versatility, If only it had 5/2/4 instead of 4 engineer consoles, it might make a better science raider build. That would also not hurt a weird almost frigate build, as engi consoles don't augment that play style much.
We agree on the price is bad value, though honestly the only thing I really really want in the pack is the b'rel trait
I hope they do this eventually the sub-T6 consoles had some of my favorite powers, they need some love even if they are just small buffs.