Or sit there mind-numbingly bored taping the F key which is just a terrible outdated design.
Literal contradiction in your second sentence in regards to something you said in a previous post. You aren't even trying at this point.
As before there is no literal contradiction you are just having a another one of your many misunderstandings. You can have the top statement without the problems of the bottom statement. They are not mutually exclusive.
I see you have ignored my other post as well, the one pointing out your many mistakes. Unless of course the forum is having another one of its moments with delayed posts showing up later. I will wait a bit a refresh just in case as that has happened before.
Its clear at this point that your entire design philosophy is old fashioned and out of touch for players like myself. I am not interested in your design approach as you have demonstrated time and time again that you are not very good at it and don't have a good idea of what makes a poor or good design approach for various groups of players.
I don't see turning this TFO into a longer, harder raid style TFO as a bad thing. In facts its great as long as its not for an event. Or if its for an event as an optional advanced extra.
YOU FRAKING LITERALLY JUST SAID THAT IN THE QUOTE I WAS REPLYING TO. Holy jeebus...just outright LIES now. There is somebody being religious here and it ain't me. You also conveniently ignored the fact that my entire solution to what you said had NOTHING to do with DPS before claiming what I was suggesting would be a DEEPS fest.
I literally didn't. what I literally said was
What would be bad game design would be letting players somehow destroy the satellites. That would just create an Infected Space/Crystalline Entity situation where players could just DEEPS their way out of any sort of trouble, removing any sort of real gameplay to the TFO.
Which is, again, that it would remove any real challenge or gameplay from the TFO. I would say the same thing if you suggested giving the players a way to stop the Terran beam ins during Pahvo Dissension. Doesn't change the fact you would still have to sit there and press F to purify crystals. It would just mean you removed any sort of challenge from the TFO by removing any threat to the crystals.
Right...and the fact that the rescue fleet succeed because these powerful planetary defense was NOT set to turn on it was STUPID WRITING. I am saying what happened in canon was STUPID WRITING. Like pretty much all of nu Trek. Also this is a sim for a game that is NOT exactly like what was in the show. The other sim for the battle of the binary star was NOTHING like what was in the show...unless the KDF could lose literally 500 ship and be fine. So...guess what, they could have changed things for game play reasons. Hell the BoBS was changed for BAD game play reason so why they can not make changes for a good one is beyond me.
Why is it stupid writing? The number of people who died in the Mars attack is irrelevant to the actual point of the Mars attack, which was to get synths banned. Every living thing on Mars could have been off world on a holiday party when the synths attacked, and the plan would have still worked as the synths would have leveled Mars and set the atmosphere ablaze, which would have gotten them banned.
The Zhat Vash don't care how many people died, its irrelevant to the mission. They aren't going to go out of their way to minimize losses, or maximize them, because it has no bearing on the mission. What you are suggesting is comic book villain levels of evil, where they just go for a high death toll for no reason other then making the death toll higher.
And how was the BoBS changed for bad gameplay reasons? Making it limited to the like 24 ships or so from the actual event would have made the TFO boring and effortless. Like what you suggest doing with the satellites would.
Oh and another solution is to make this mission into an escort one. You rescue ships, they follow you and than you need to escort them to a point outside the circle of death. Rescue X number of people to win...the circle still shrinks. But considering the rather universal hatred for escort mission...not exactly my top choice on this one.
But if your both in the circle of death, how would you escort them out of it from the inside, which requires passing through it, and would certainly lead to both of you being destroyed in the process? Again, none of these suggestions make any sense, or follow any sort of logic.
So...let me get this straight...my suggestion is wrong because of SOMETHING I DIDN'T EVEN SAY?!? WTF is wrong with you? No seriously...WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU.
Because terrorism goal IS A HIGH DEATH TOLL. A suicide bomber blows himself up and take 3 people with him...scary...but not really. One does it and takes out 2 million people...and yeah that will incite terror. The purpose of this operation was to incite terror. Having that be the stated goal and have the actions not line up to that is BAD WRITING. Maybe the synth ban would have happened with JUST the destruction of Mars...maybe not. It certainly would have been much more likely if there are no survivors however.
Once again...you are assuming we don't change the bad choices that was made in the map. Get over the fact that ANY and ALL BAD CHOICES MADE FOR THIS MAP IS SOMEHOW IMMUTABLE IN MAKING A BETTER ONE.
That's just how I feel about somtaawkhar as well. They treat what we say as wrong due to things we never said. Going back to your idea and feel free to criticize this. What if we have to escort the ships and in a none DPS way hack a safe pasage by interacting with the environment though a narrow corridor and escort the ships out. If the devs are feeling brave they could even go back to the days when each type of captain had a different method to use. I miss it when science captains could make different choices to Engineering captains.
Oh...that sounds like a good way to deal with the escort mission. I can see the rage for an escort mission however still. They are not exactly well liked. Or maybe we interact with the environment to create a window of safety where any ship you have rescued in the safe zone can warp out. So than it isn't even an escort mission. And yeah something different for each career choice would be nice for that too.
That would be dope! Something like:
- Engineering captains could interact to use something similar to the Aceton Beam, making enemies actually damage themselves when they try to shoot the convoy down;
- Science captains could interact to create false reading, like a fals holographic fleet (or multiple holographic copies of the ships in the convoy) to confuse the enemies, or they could go for the standard Scamble Sensors;
- Tactical captains could interact to use a "team-wide" version of the Tactical Team;
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Tfw you miss the entire point of the post. Good job.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
“There was nothing to respond to, you just keep claiming that everything is a "mistake" or a "misunderstanding" but then go on to make the same contradictory arguments that you made previously over again. I've already responded to it before.”
Seriously? I did more than just claim, I proved what you said is completely wrong and gave direct quotes and examples where you went wrong and even pointed out where you added words and so the meaning you pulled out was opposite to what was being said. The fact you cannot counter any of it and just blank is out is very telling.
Just because you have a poor understanding of things, it does not mean the arguments are contradictory. If you could read what I put correctly and understand it then you would realise there are no contradictions. The problem is your clear bias and DPSer obsession. You are reading peoples post then somehow coming away with the very opposite to what those people are saying. Then you draw completely wrong conclusions on your incorrect reading of the post. See my previous post for some great examples.
I would also be interested in what setups, ship power levels, skill tree and core bridge officers powers you use. As I still think you are closer to an typical Elitist DPSers then me. I would be very surprised if your posted that honestly and it showed anything but what I said. Even if I am wrong there is no way you can call me an Elitist DPSers which invalidates everything you said referring to that. I mean if I am an Elitest DPSers just what strange definition are you using? Or is your DPSer obsession so bad you see 99% of the player base at Elitest?
“Hilariously ironic coming from the guy proposing even OLDER game design. Whereas the game design I propose is used in more modern games, and people tend to support it more then the design you propose.”
The game design I propose is from modern games. What you are proposing most modern games abandoned years ago as its stupidly simple and doesn’t work for a wide variety of player types. You changes would kill off a batch of players and fractur the player base even more.
As this thread shows, you are out of touch with players and game design. I am never going to like your design philosophy as its so bad and the type of design philosophy that kills games. Luckily the devs don’t follow your design philosophy.
“They are though. Interacting with the environment requires pressing F to interact, something you previously said was boring, and outdated.”
How can you still not get it. There are different ways to interact with the environment and ways to make it more interesting then just blinding tapping F and getting the same result 20+ times. There are TFO’s where I love Interacting with the environment and its very well implanted and fun to do. Then you have TFO’s like Synth Wave where the player interaction is just flat out boring. Why is it so how for you to understand that just because I don’t like the environment interaction in Synth Wave it doesn’t mean I dislike all environment interactions. It is not contradictory. the problem seems to be you you cannot see past the most simple gameplay concepts and so don’t get it.
M8, you are literally proposing carrier based gameplay optionals, which is the exact opposite of modern gameplay design, and the exact definition of old MMO game design.
I am the one proposing more open, carrier-less, based gameplay design reflective of more modern MMOs which have moved past hard class roles.
Not only do I disagree as yet again you are over simplifying things but you skipped over the rest of my post. At this point I don't think there is any point trying to have a conversation with you on design philosophy. You have demonstrated how you twist peoples post and read the opposite to what is being said. Then when called out on it you blank that out.
From what I have seen you are out of touch and have no idea what good and bad gameplay design philosophy is. So I have no interest in trying to further talk about your poor choice of gameplay design.
Though I am still curious about your strange DPSers obsession and why you see Elitest DPSers where there are no Elitest DPSers. Just how are you jumping to the wild conclusions. It doesn't make any sense.
I honestly feel the same way about your posts. I try to read them, and it just back and forth between ideas, jumping over things over and over, saying one thing, then saying another. It literally doesn't make any sense.
Its really some of the most confusingly odd posts I've ever read anywhere.
I know my posts can be a bit wordy but no one else seems to have problems. I thought some of the examples I gave you are very clear cut. Surly you can see from my above examples how I am not an Elite DPSers and that your comments on Elite DPSer are all wrong? Some of the examples I gave of things you made out I said, are clear for everyone to see that I never said anything remotely like you are making out.
From my point of view my posts are confusing because you are miss reading them. As per my examples where you added in words I never said. You jumped to conclusions that are the opposite to what I said. When I pointed that out you kept insisting your incorrect reading was correct. There have been a number of times you added the DPS word when it was not involved.
From my point of view my posts are confusing because you are miss reading them.
From my point of view its impossible to not "misread" your posts because you say one thing, then say the opposite thing either later in the post, or in a previous/later post, but then turn around and say you never said the thing you clearly said.
For example, you use Pahvo Dissension as an example of a TFO where your actions matter, can speed it up, and is a good time gate, but your actions literally can't speed up Pahvo Dissension. It takes a set amount of time for the smaller crystals to purify the larger ones. No matter what you do, you can't speed that process up, so it will always take the set minimum amount of time no matter your actions. Its no different then Synth Wave where each round takes a set minimum amount of time no matter what you do.
.................
The only way I can explain Pahvo Dissension and why I like the environment interactions in that over Synth Wave is going back into design philosophy which I don’t think is a good idea as we are so incompatible in that area. For me there is a massive difference between player environment and impact on the TFO between Pahvo Dissension and Synth wave. Other people seem to understand the difference. To avoid design philosophy as we will never agree. Lets try a different approach.
You accused me of “shift you lack of desire to play the games onto the devs,” and “you have no reason to not play besides a general desire to not do so” I pointout out my quotes that are the direct opposite to that. So perhaps you can explain how you came to that conclusions to help me understand where our misunderstanding each other is coming from. From my point of view my first post was “I love the length of it.” so I don’t understand how you turn that into no desire to play.
“"my actions have meaning because my DPS lets us get the playtime down to 25”
I never said anything about DPS to reduce the time. How did you get to that conclusion? You say my posts are impossible to not missread. But isn't this a clear example of you misreading my post and you adding in extra words to change the meaning?
“I was pointing out how you fit that description.”
As I asked before. How do I fit that description? I don’t get it.
““publicly decry anything like having to intact with the environment for any reason.””
As far as I can see, I said the opposite. I do not understand where got that from, likewise I do not understand where you got the Elitest DPS stuff from.
EDIT: If you don't want to respond and just write each other off as incompatible with each other, I am happy with that as well. I am only trying to understand how you are getting to the conclusions you are.
Reading through this Thread was hard. It brought to mind Henry II's attributed saying 'Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?' It's exhausting reading a ping-pong match.
I am a day behind because I wasted one day on a run with a stuck Battleship. At least 45 minutes and last out. I can't wait until this is over.
Anyone think that the next TFO Event may be a slightly revamped 'Mirror Incursion'?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
> @ltminns said: > Anyone think that the next TFO Event may be a slightly revamped 'Mirror Incursion'?
Hm why not.
It’s kinda funny. I remember how much I hated mirror event every time they ran it.
But now? After the the last 3 Mr. Stupid events?! Yea man I’d love running mirror!
It had actual rudimentary teamplay, different strategic approaches, different impacts of builds and ship classes, motivation to far extends, multiple difficulty setting with hard ones available.
Yea I know stupid timer was there as well but it was leagues above to what we have now. Hard reminder how much game play can de-volve while it should evolve.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
“Because you self admitted to just using the TFO to just test out various game mechanics. And, on top of that, have mentioned only wanting to play it solo, and just AFKing now that you can't. If you actually wanted to play the game you would be contributing to the objectives, not intentionally not doing so, and asking for ways to be able to not do so.”
You are doing it again. You keep adding in words to change the context of what is being said. Never once did I say JUST testing mechanics. Never once did I say only SOLO. I did say I am going to AFK but contribute to the team for the last 4 runs but that doesn't mean I am soloed or AFKed the entire event. In the other thread I posted enough screenshots of me active and working in a team to prove I was not solo or AFK throughout the event.
The reason you think my posts say one thing, then say the opposite thing is because you keep adding words that are not there. For example I didn’t JUST test mechanics and anyway testing mechanics is playing to seeing how a TFO responds to different situations is playing. I wasn't just sitting in a corner ignoring the TFO. I was testing mechanics out to see how they benefited the TFO. Trying different consoles and setups to see how they mechanically interreacted with the TFO. Hence why I tried things like hanger bays to provide supporting fire feeing up our ships to save people. You know what I found? By using hanger pets and not using my main weapons I could save more people then firing my main weapons.
Why do we have to play the same TFO 20 times in a row 100% the exact same way. As I said before I tried different builds out to see how they interact with the TFO.
I did some runs AFK with my ship flying around shooting everything to leave the team mates free to save ships. I never once sat there dead or hidden away doing nothing in a group as that is wrong. I did some runs with hangers bays only for damage without firing main weapons so I was free to save ships. I did some runs with Transphasic to see how they scale up over time. I did runs with minefields to free my ship up to save ships. I did some solo runs to make it more challenging to see how well I could do solo compared to group work. I did some more solo runs trying to make the mission last as long as possible while not losing ships. I did some runs in different ships to see how they mechanically acted differently towards the mission. Yes I did combatloged 3 or 4 of the 20+ runs as I was curious. What is wrong with that? Now it getting boring towards the end of the event. The challenge I used to make it more interesting has been removed.
It feels like you are saying everyone has to play your way and your way only. Anyone who is not playing your way is not playing the game and doesn’t want to play. You know what, that is an elitist DPS attitude you have.
“but mechanically your just pressing F on static objects in both situations.”
Mechanically there is far more to it that that, more so when playing on Elite which as you know is the default setting because I like a challenge and don’t care end mission rewards. I even play all solo missions even this event mission on Elite even though it takes longer. Because unlike the fake narrative you push, I do like playing.
If I am so against playing like you keep saying. Then why do I keep extending the length of TFO’s and missions? Can you see how wrong you are?
“I don't really see how its any different. In Pahvo you press F to cause the agonizers to blow up, and you press F to place down crystals. And in Synth Wave you press F to beam up people, and press F to beam them over transports.”
I am not going to go into details. For a start there is far more than just pressing F to agonizers and Crystals. You can use ambushes, cover, distraction, use misdirection e.c.t none of which work in Synth Wave but do in other space TFO’s.
In Pahvo there is a difference between everyone going off randomly ignoring team chat and everyone working as a team and using chat. There is a difference between using strategy and tactics which directly impact the mission. There is a difference between when a team plays well and when a team plays bad. Synth wave is the direct opposite it doesn’t make any real difference if everyone ignores chat, it doesn’t make any difference if everyone skips strategy and tactics, it doesn’t make a difference if no one works as a team. it doesn’t make any difference if the team plays well or bad. (remember I am not talking about the reward at the end but the direct impact on the mission).
In the most basic terms in Pahvo there are a large number of different ways to achieve the objective and how you do it makes a difference to the TFO. In Pahvo there are a large number of ways to play. In Synth wave it didn’t matter what I did everything was always the same and the way the mission plays is always pretty much the same. Hence why as much as I really enjoy Synth Wave I think it needs some tweaks and improvements.
“As I already showed, you can't actually reduce the minimum time Pahvo Dissension takes.”
This is where you are going wrong. Go play it on Elite with random people who ignore chat, now play it again with a well-oiled team that use chat/voice then play it again with the same team but play it badly. Then come back any honestly tell me the time the mission is illusionary and its all the same. Don’t forget to tract how long each run takes because if you do it honestly it won’t be the same.
“The only situation where players can truly speed things up is situations where they are just killing things.”
100% incorrect. All you see is your one fixed way of playing and DPS. Move away from your Elitest attitude and you can find dozes of none DPS ways to speed up that mission via working as a team.
“You may want to play a Star Trek game, but obviously not an MMO. No one who wants to play an MMO would ask for ways to play it alone in any situation. “
More elitist attitude from you. All you do is say play it my way with my style of play or you are wrong. Modern MMO’s allow solo play and sometimes playing solo and sometimes in a group is normal and good. Forcing everyone into a single style of play and single tier of play like you have tried to do throughout this thread is just pure elitist attitude.
“I wouldn't ask for a way to "play" them solo, or just sit around in either to test out ship mechanics. That's just being a leech.”
Never once was I a leech. Every single time I contributed to the success of the mission. Unless it’s been agreed by the group, I don’t believe in sitting there dead or staying hidden while the timers runs down.
“ So the idea that anyone could ever considering asking for a way to play anything but story missions solo is so fundamentally counter to one of the very core fundamentals of the genre that I don't see how you could not see it as not wanting to play the game. “
The reason I liked the solo runs was because it was more challenging and I liked playing the game. Trying to fight off all the ships solo while saving all the ships solo gave some variety to the TFO. I would have much preferred a team based advanced/Elite version. But as that is not an option, I ran my own harder versions of it. But somehow you turn that into not wanting to play despite the fact its the opposite and I wanted to play with variety and more challenge.
“You may not have intended it, but you seemingly gave off every textbook argument these kind of people make. So I had no reason to not assume you were one of them.”
Accept for I did not. Here are some examples of where you added words in to make it textbook. I said speed runs do not matter. You read that as I wanted to speed run as fast as possible. I said DPS do not matter. You said I wanted to not play and only brute force though with shear DPS. The problem here is you, not me.
“Why do you think the TFO should play any differently when its the same situation every time?”
Its good modern design that most modem games follow and STO does as well most of the time. I think the problem here is you don’t understand the subtle differences within TFO’s and the way different groups of players play the game. You don’t get the subtle ways to achieve objectives. All you see is DPS and your way and nothing else. Luckily the devs for the most part do not follow your terrible design method.
“Except you can do literally none of these things in STO, because none of these things really exist as mechanics in STO.” is a perfect example of what I mean. You say I cannot ambush but I do that all the time in space and ground TFO’s including in the Crystal section. Sometimes setting up an ambush lowers DPS but archives the goal better.
You say I cannot use cover but again I use cover to solve problems instead of using pure DPS. You very much can distract and misdirect enemies. You can also use threat and get them to change targets. If you are unaware of all this its not wonder you have been so completely wrong in this thread. You are missing a large amount of gameplay out. There is more to doing TFO’s then your way and DPS. Some players do TFO’s for more reasons than just the reward at the end or DPS.
It’s not that I am playing to pretend. Its that you seem to have missed half the mechanics and half the gameplay STO. Just because you are closed minded and have a limited play style, it doesn’t nothing else exists and there is only your way or DPS. Its why I called you elitist. You have this limited playstyle and you want everyone to be like you. Anyone who doesn’t play how you want them to, you call them not wanting to play the game and make up other rubbish about them. That’s an elitist attitude. Basically anyone who doesn’t play how you think is the correct way, you trash and blame them. Well I have news for you there are more reasons to play then pure DPS or rewards at the end of the mission. Some players do not play for pure DPS or end missions rewards and I am one of those players. So are others in this thread.
“How players do directly in the mission reflects in the reward at the end. The only impact player's can have on the mission is how fast you complete the objectives, which is directly tied to your score at the end.”
You are missing a large section of gameplay and missing the reason a lot of us play the missions. I have seen lots of people try to explain it to you over the years and you never seem to understand. There are a lot of people like myself and others in this thread who are not playing to max out DPS and not playing for the end mission reward. We are not just DPS parseing different playstyles
“ You just admitted again your not actually playing the game, you're just goofing off in the content.”
Another example of your elitist attitude. So because I am using methods to play and enjoy the game in a way you don’t approve off, you see it as I am not playing the game and only goofing around!!!! Do you even hear yourself? So someone literally playing the game you call not playing the game because you cannot handle them playing in a different way to yourself. What a load of rubbish. So in my runs where I ran Synth wave doing zero DPS from my main ship weapons and completing all the objectives I am not really playing the game!!!!
“lite mode in STO only increased how much damage enemies do, and how much DPS you need to kill them. Your obsession over elite mode just shows the only thing you care about is wanting a scenario where you have to have high DPS to beat it. The actual mechanics of the TFO are the same in both situations, as are the methods needed to beat them. The only real difference is that elite mode requires more DPS, and more self healing.”
That again just shows your complete lack of understanding of the situation. I don’t know how else to explain it to you. So many people have tried over the years and you don’t seem to understand. It has nothing to do with getting the best DPS or reward at the end of the mission. The actual mechanics and methods to beat them are not the same. You should realize by now I don’t take max DPS builds or max healing builds. I never brute force my way through using meta builds. Instead of maxing DPS and brute forcing though I look for niche builds and niche methods to get by the extra challenge.
Instead of more DPS and more healing. I use well planned ambush’s, cover, distraction and misdirection. But you cannot accept that and so your elitist attitude has to attack me and call me not playing the game.
“Except there is no way to speed up the game outside of DPS. That is just objective fact. The player has no impact on”
You are looking at things from a blind bubble. There is a major difference in running those TFO’s in a well-oiled team or a bunch of random people ignoring chat. Azure Nebula is a good example I setup an ambush before the enemy warp in which allows me to interact with the environment faster and complete the objective faster. Others use stealth, others use distraction. Most people use DPS.
But according to you there is nothing but DPS so we are not really playing the game. What we are doing has nothing to do with brute force DPS. The problem is you don’t like people playing the game in different ways. You must hate it that I play though Pahvo using methods other then pushing pure DPS.
“Then you aren't AFKing like you claimed previously. Thanks for admitting to lying.”
Just another example of you missing out on various gameplay mechanics. There are different forms of AFKing. There are the leeches who AFK by doing nothing which I hate when it’s not a pre formed AFK group. Then there are ways to AFK and not only still contribute to the group but if done smartly you can contribute more than some active random players. As long as the team member is contributing a reasonable amount to the group, I have no problems how they want to play. No one is lying. You are just missing out on how the games works. Personally I have no problems with people who AFK events when they contribute. As long as they flying around helping it doesn't matter if they choose to be AFK to me.
“Elitist attitude is believing that you should be in some way above, or beyond, or separate, the rest of the playerbase. And that is what you propose. Your ideas are fundamentally elitist, by their very nature. And everyone playing on the same level is the exact opposite of elitist.”
Elitist attitude is saying you have a way to play the game and anyone not playing your way is not playing the game. Which is what you have been doing throughout this thread. My ideas are not fundamentally elitist as they are open allowing anyone to play how they like. Trying to funnel everyone into a single track, single level, single tier and not allowing them to play how they like which is what you have done throughout this thread. Now that pure Elitist attitude.
“But you just previously admitted to not wanting to not caring about the reward(thus not caring about completing the objectives),”
Incorrect again you are making false leaps. I care about the objectives. I do not care about the marks/reward at the end of the mission. I don’t even look at that page and just close it as soon as it pops up. Its irrelevant and doesn’t matter to me. Objectives and end mission rewards are not always connected. In that you can care about one and not the other. I expect this will confuse you. But I have no idea how to explain it in a way you can understand.
“I guess I can only say that I'm happy that no modern game dev makes games the way you think they should be made, and instead makes games more like STO, or Guild Wars 2, or ESO, which fly in the face of every design paradigm you propose.”
All those games, design games to the design paradigm I like for the most part. You are just blind to it all because you seem to have this one track mind of my way or the high way attitude. All those games support the styles of game design I like and propose. They don't always get it prefect and some missions do it more then others but its there.
one of you PLEASE put a stop to this, or just close the thread - all it's become is two people trolling at each other that SHOULD have been done in PMs anyway
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
one of you PLEASE put a stop to this, or just close the thread - all it's become is two people trolling at each other that SHOULD have been done in PMs anyway
Pretty sure somtaawkhar is not trolling and I don't see my posts to them as trolling. I didn't think we where bothering anyone. But if it bothers you I will stop.
one of you PLEASE put a stop to this, or just close the thread - all it's become is two people trolling at each other that SHOULD have been done in PMs anyway
Pretty sure somtaawkhar is not trolling and I don't see my posts to them as trolling. I didn't think we where bothering anyone. But if it bothers you I will stop.
True, but both are arguing for the sake of arguing... not fun, please, get back to the tread before is closed!
one of you PLEASE put a stop to this, or just close the thread - all it's become is two people trolling at each other that SHOULD have been done in PMs anyway
Unreal.. it's all on topic and part of the discussion but because YOU don't like it you cry for a moderator. The topic of the thread is TFO Mechanics and that's what's being discussed. If you don't like it, skip those posts or don't read the thread. Don't pop in just to cry for a mod, you sound ridiculous.
> @shadowfang240 said: > @darkbladejk > @wingedhussar#7584 > > one of you PLEASE put a stop to this, or just close the thread - all it's become is two people trolling at each other that SHOULD have been done in PMs anyway
Oh I did not see any trolling.
Only the usual suspect making a fool out of himself while trying to defend Cryptics bad decisions for STO.
But yea close this nonsense, it’s not as if the map that triggered this discussion would be worth it. Besides, the next PvE dead birth is just around the corner anyway so we can do it all over again.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
What is one of the two ship types that enters the map at the End Stage of 'Mirror Incursion'?
Yes, Mirror Dreadnought Crusier with Spinal Lance.
What did we just get as a new addition to the C-Store?
Yes, a Legendary (Mirror) Dreadnought Crusier Bundle.
Since we run round the clock Events, what could possibly fill in between 'The Widening Gyre' and 'Winter Wonderland'?
... Waiting.... Waiting....
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I agree. Find it the worst TFO released the last few years in my tastes. What an uninspired map. I also really hope that they change the music and fix all bugs.
Comments
I see you have ignored my other post as well, the one pointing out your many mistakes. Unless of course the forum is having another one of its moments with delayed posts showing up later. I will wait a bit a refresh just in case as that has happened before.
Its clear at this point that your entire design philosophy is old fashioned and out of touch for players like myself. I am not interested in your design approach as you have demonstrated time and time again that you are not very good at it and don't have a good idea of what makes a poor or good design approach for various groups of players.
I don't see turning this TFO into a longer, harder raid style TFO as a bad thing. In facts its great as long as its not for an event. Or if its for an event as an optional advanced extra.
That would be dope! Something like:
- Engineering captains could interact to use something similar to the Aceton Beam, making enemies actually damage themselves when they try to shoot the convoy down;
- Science captains could interact to create false reading, like a fals holographic fleet (or multiple holographic copies of the ships in the convoy) to confuse the enemies, or they could go for the standard Scamble Sensors;
- Tactical captains could interact to use a "team-wide" version of the Tactical Team;
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Just because you have a poor understanding of things, it does not mean the arguments are contradictory. If you could read what I put correctly and understand it then you would realise there are no contradictions. The problem is your clear bias and DPSer obsession. You are reading peoples post then somehow coming away with the very opposite to what those people are saying. Then you draw completely wrong conclusions on your incorrect reading of the post. See my previous post for some great examples.
I would also be interested in what setups, ship power levels, skill tree and core bridge officers powers you use. As I still think you are closer to an typical Elitist DPSers then me. I would be very surprised if your posted that honestly and it showed anything but what I said. Even if I am wrong there is no way you can call me an Elitist DPSers which invalidates everything you said referring to that. I mean if I am an Elitest DPSers just what strange definition are you using? Or is your DPSer obsession so bad you see 99% of the player base at Elitest?
The game design I propose is from modern games. What you are proposing most modern games abandoned years ago as its stupidly simple and doesn’t work for a wide variety of player types. You changes would kill off a batch of players and fractur the player base even more.
As this thread shows, you are out of touch with players and game design. I am never going to like your design philosophy as its so bad and the type of design philosophy that kills games. Luckily the devs don’t follow your design philosophy.
How can you still not get it. There are different ways to interact with the environment and ways to make it more interesting then just blinding tapping F and getting the same result 20+ times. There are TFO’s where I love Interacting with the environment and its very well implanted and fun to do. Then you have TFO’s like Synth Wave where the player interaction is just flat out boring. Why is it so how for you to understand that just because I don’t like the environment interaction in Synth Wave it doesn’t mean I dislike all environment interactions. It is not contradictory. the problem seems to be you you cannot see past the most simple gameplay concepts and so don’t get it.
From what I have seen you are out of touch and have no idea what good and bad gameplay design philosophy is. So I have no interest in trying to further talk about your poor choice of gameplay design.
Though I am still curious about your strange DPSers obsession and why you see Elitest DPSers where there are no Elitest DPSers. Just how are you jumping to the wild conclusions. It doesn't make any sense.
From my point of view my posts are confusing because you are miss reading them. As per my examples where you added in words I never said. You jumped to conclusions that are the opposite to what I said. When I pointed that out you kept insisting your incorrect reading was correct. There have been a number of times you added the DPS word when it was not involved.
>So I have no interest in trying to further talk about your poor choice of gameplay design.
And there is hardly any need to as everybody should be able to see the obvious in the matter going forward.
Be proud, your discussion skills are as formidable as your gaming and ship building ones are in STO.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
You accused me of “shift you lack of desire to play the games onto the devs,” and “you have no reason to not play besides a general desire to not do so” I pointout out my quotes that are the direct opposite to that. So perhaps you can explain how you came to that conclusions to help me understand where our misunderstanding each other is coming from. From my point of view my first post was “I love the length of it.” so I don’t understand how you turn that into no desire to play.
“"my actions have meaning because my DPS lets us get the playtime down to 25”
I never said anything about DPS to reduce the time. How did you get to that conclusion? You say my posts are impossible to not missread. But isn't this a clear example of you misreading my post and you adding in extra words to change the meaning?
“I was pointing out how you fit that description.”
As I asked before. How do I fit that description? I don’t get it.
““publicly decry anything like having to intact with the environment for any reason.””
As far as I can see, I said the opposite. I do not understand where got that from, likewise I do not understand where you got the Elitest DPS stuff from.
EDIT: If you don't want to respond and just write each other off as incompatible with each other, I am happy with that as well. I am only trying to understand how you are getting to the conclusions you are.
I am a day behind because I wasted one day on a run with a stuck Battleship. At least 45 minutes and last out. I can't wait until this is over.
Anyone think that the next TFO Event may be a slightly revamped 'Mirror Incursion'?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
> Anyone think that the next TFO Event may be a slightly revamped 'Mirror Incursion'?
Hm why not.
It’s kinda funny. I remember how much I hated mirror event every time they ran it.
But now? After the the last 3 Mr. Stupid events?! Yea man I’d love running mirror!
It had actual rudimentary teamplay, different strategic approaches, different impacts of builds and ship classes, motivation to far extends, multiple difficulty setting with hard ones available.
Yea I know stupid timer was there as well but it was leagues above to what we have now. Hard reminder how much game play can de-volve while it should evolve.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
The reason you think my posts say one thing, then say the opposite thing is because you keep adding words that are not there. For example I didn’t JUST test mechanics and anyway testing mechanics is playing to seeing how a TFO responds to different situations is playing. I wasn't just sitting in a corner ignoring the TFO. I was testing mechanics out to see how they benefited the TFO. Trying different consoles and setups to see how they mechanically interreacted with the TFO. Hence why I tried things like hanger bays to provide supporting fire feeing up our ships to save people. You know what I found? By using hanger pets and not using my main weapons I could save more people then firing my main weapons.
Why do we have to play the same TFO 20 times in a row 100% the exact same way. As I said before I tried different builds out to see how they interact with the TFO.
I did some runs AFK with my ship flying around shooting everything to leave the team mates free to save ships. I never once sat there dead or hidden away doing nothing in a group as that is wrong. I did some runs with hangers bays only for damage without firing main weapons so I was free to save ships. I did some runs with Transphasic to see how they scale up over time. I did runs with minefields to free my ship up to save ships. I did some solo runs to make it more challenging to see how well I could do solo compared to group work. I did some more solo runs trying to make the mission last as long as possible while not losing ships. I did some runs in different ships to see how they mechanically acted differently towards the mission. Yes I did combatloged 3 or 4 of the 20+ runs as I was curious. What is wrong with that? Now it getting boring towards the end of the event. The challenge I used to make it more interesting has been removed.
It feels like you are saying everyone has to play your way and your way only. Anyone who is not playing your way is not playing the game and doesn’t want to play. You know what, that is an elitist DPS attitude you have.
Mechanically there is far more to it that that, more so when playing on Elite which as you know is the default setting because I like a challenge and don’t care end mission rewards. I even play all solo missions even this event mission on Elite even though it takes longer. Because unlike the fake narrative you push, I do like playing.
If I am so against playing like you keep saying. Then why do I keep extending the length of TFO’s and missions? Can you see how wrong you are?
I am not going to go into details. For a start there is far more than just pressing F to agonizers and Crystals. You can use ambushes, cover, distraction, use misdirection e.c.t none of which work in Synth Wave but do in other space TFO’s.
In Pahvo there is a difference between everyone going off randomly ignoring team chat and everyone working as a team and using chat. There is a difference between using strategy and tactics which directly impact the mission. There is a difference between when a team plays well and when a team plays bad. Synth wave is the direct opposite it doesn’t make any real difference if everyone ignores chat, it doesn’t make any difference if everyone skips strategy and tactics, it doesn’t make a difference if no one works as a team. it doesn’t make any difference if the team plays well or bad. (remember I am not talking about the reward at the end but the direct impact on the mission).
In the most basic terms in Pahvo there are a large number of different ways to achieve the objective and how you do it makes a difference to the TFO. In Pahvo there are a large number of ways to play. In Synth wave it didn’t matter what I did everything was always the same and the way the mission plays is always pretty much the same. Hence why as much as I really enjoy Synth Wave I think it needs some tweaks and improvements.
This is where you are going wrong. Go play it on Elite with random people who ignore chat, now play it again with a well-oiled team that use chat/voice then play it again with the same team but play it badly. Then come back any honestly tell me the time the mission is illusionary and its all the same. Don’t forget to tract how long each run takes because if you do it honestly it won’t be the same.
100% incorrect. All you see is your one fixed way of playing and DPS. Move away from your Elitest attitude and you can find dozes of none DPS ways to speed up that mission via working as a team.
More elitist attitude from you. All you do is say play it my way with my style of play or you are wrong. Modern MMO’s allow solo play and sometimes playing solo and sometimes in a group is normal and good. Forcing everyone into a single style of play and single tier of play like you have tried to do throughout this thread is just pure elitist attitude.
Never once was I a leech. Every single time I contributed to the success of the mission. Unless it’s been agreed by the group, I don’t believe in sitting there dead or staying hidden while the timers runs down.
The reason I liked the solo runs was because it was more challenging and I liked playing the game. Trying to fight off all the ships solo while saving all the ships solo gave some variety to the TFO. I would have much preferred a team based advanced/Elite version. But as that is not an option, I ran my own harder versions of it. But somehow you turn that into not wanting to play despite the fact its the opposite and I wanted to play with variety and more challenge.
Accept for I did not. Here are some examples of where you added words in to make it textbook. I said speed runs do not matter. You read that as I wanted to speed run as fast as possible. I said DPS do not matter. You said I wanted to not play and only brute force though with shear DPS. The problem here is you, not me.
Its good modern design that most modem games follow and STO does as well most of the time. I think the problem here is you don’t understand the subtle differences within TFO’s and the way different groups of players play the game. You don’t get the subtle ways to achieve objectives. All you see is DPS and your way and nothing else. Luckily the devs for the most part do not follow your terrible design method.
“Except you can do literally none of these things in STO, because none of these things really exist as mechanics in STO.” is a perfect example of what I mean. You say I cannot ambush but I do that all the time in space and ground TFO’s including in the Crystal section. Sometimes setting up an ambush lowers DPS but archives the goal better.
You say I cannot use cover but again I use cover to solve problems instead of using pure DPS. You very much can distract and misdirect enemies. You can also use threat and get them to change targets. If you are unaware of all this its not wonder you have been so completely wrong in this thread. You are missing a large amount of gameplay out. There is more to doing TFO’s then your way and DPS. Some players do TFO’s for more reasons than just the reward at the end or DPS.
It’s not that I am playing to pretend. Its that you seem to have missed half the mechanics and half the gameplay STO. Just because you are closed minded and have a limited play style, it doesn’t nothing else exists and there is only your way or DPS. Its why I called you elitist. You have this limited playstyle and you want everyone to be like you. Anyone who doesn’t play how you want them to, you call them not wanting to play the game and make up other rubbish about them. That’s an elitist attitude. Basically anyone who doesn’t play how you think is the correct way, you trash and blame them. Well I have news for you there are more reasons to play then pure DPS or rewards at the end of the mission. Some players do not play for pure DPS or end missions rewards and I am one of those players. So are others in this thread.
You are missing a large section of gameplay and missing the reason a lot of us play the missions. I have seen lots of people try to explain it to you over the years and you never seem to understand. There are a lot of people like myself and others in this thread who are not playing to max out DPS and not playing for the end mission reward. We are not just DPS parseing different playstyles
Another example of your elitist attitude. So because I am using methods to play and enjoy the game in a way you don’t approve off, you see it as I am not playing the game and only goofing around!!!! Do you even hear yourself? So someone literally playing the game you call not playing the game because you cannot handle them playing in a different way to yourself. What a load of rubbish. So in my runs where I ran Synth wave doing zero DPS from my main ship weapons and completing all the objectives I am not really playing the game!!!!
That again just shows your complete lack of understanding of the situation. I don’t know how else to explain it to you. So many people have tried over the years and you don’t seem to understand. It has nothing to do with getting the best DPS or reward at the end of the mission. The actual mechanics and methods to beat them are not the same. You should realize by now I don’t take max DPS builds or max healing builds. I never brute force my way through using meta builds. Instead of maxing DPS and brute forcing though I look for niche builds and niche methods to get by the extra challenge.
Instead of more DPS and more healing. I use well planned ambush’s, cover, distraction and misdirection. But you cannot accept that and so your elitist attitude has to attack me and call me not playing the game.
You are looking at things from a blind bubble. There is a major difference in running those TFO’s in a well-oiled team or a bunch of random people ignoring chat. Azure Nebula is a good example I setup an ambush before the enemy warp in which allows me to interact with the environment faster and complete the objective faster. Others use stealth, others use distraction. Most people use DPS.
But according to you there is nothing but DPS so we are not really playing the game. What we are doing has nothing to do with brute force DPS. The problem is you don’t like people playing the game in different ways. You must hate it that I play though Pahvo using methods other then pushing pure DPS.
Just another example of you missing out on various gameplay mechanics. There are different forms of AFKing. There are the leeches who AFK by doing nothing which I hate when it’s not a pre formed AFK group. Then there are ways to AFK and not only still contribute to the group but if done smartly you can contribute more than some active random players. As long as the team member is contributing a reasonable amount to the group, I have no problems how they want to play. No one is lying. You are just missing out on how the games works. Personally I have no problems with people who AFK events when they contribute. As long as they flying around helping it doesn't matter if they choose to be AFK to me.
Elitist attitude is saying you have a way to play the game and anyone not playing your way is not playing the game. Which is what you have been doing throughout this thread. My ideas are not fundamentally elitist as they are open allowing anyone to play how they like. Trying to funnel everyone into a single track, single level, single tier and not allowing them to play how they like which is what you have done throughout this thread. Now that pure Elitist attitude.
Incorrect again you are making false leaps. I care about the objectives. I do not care about the marks/reward at the end of the mission. I don’t even look at that page and just close it as soon as it pops up. Its irrelevant and doesn’t matter to me. Objectives and end mission rewards are not always connected. In that you can care about one and not the other. I expect this will confuse you. But I have no idea how to explain it in a way you can understand.
All those games, design games to the design paradigm I like for the most part. You are just blind to it all because you seem to have this one track mind of my way or the high way attitude. All those games support the styles of game design I like and propose. They don't always get it prefect and some missions do it more then others but its there.
@wingedhussar#7584
one of you PLEASE put a stop to this, or just close the thread - all it's become is two people trolling at each other that SHOULD have been done in PMs anyway
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
True, but both are arguing for the sake of arguing... not fun, please, get back to the tread before is closed!
Unreal.. it's all on topic and part of the discussion but because YOU don't like it you cry for a moderator. The topic of the thread is TFO Mechanics and that's what's being discussed. If you don't like it, skip those posts or don't read the thread. Don't pop in just to cry for a mod, you sound ridiculous.
> @darkbladejk
> @wingedhussar#7584
>
> one of you PLEASE put a stop to this, or just close the thread - all it's become is two people trolling at each other that SHOULD have been done in PMs anyway
Oh I did not see any trolling.
Only the usual suspect making a fool out of himself while trying to defend Cryptics bad decisions for STO.
But yea close this nonsense, it’s not as if the map that triggered this discussion would be worth it. Besides, the next PvE dead birth is just around the corner anyway so we can do it all over again.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
lol.
It would be hard to make a queue worse then Synth Wave.. but I'm sure they will find a way.
What is one of the two ship types that enters the map at the End Stage of 'Mirror Incursion'?
Yes, Mirror Dreadnought Crusier with Spinal Lance.
What did we just get as a new addition to the C-Store?
Yes, a Legendary (Mirror) Dreadnought Crusier Bundle.
Since we run round the clock Events, what could possibly fill in between 'The Widening Gyre' and 'Winter Wonderland'?
... Waiting.... Waiting....
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'