There's something unique about online games where people having legitimate complaints about a product or service are shot down by other customers.
I've played MMORPGs for for the best part of 12 years from WoW to ESO to STO. Patch days sometimes throw up problems. This isn't a particularly abnormal event.
I can deal with a few issues on patch day and a few days after, provided there is reasonable communication from the devs and that they are reasonably efficient with fixing the bugs.
With STO, patch day bugs do not really bother me too much. But there is a growing list of other issues - some persistent, longer term problems that are not really addressed. For example, there's the still unfixed lag spikes and misfiring powers (getting on for a few years now?), which has been acknowleged by Cryptic, but there's been no real improvement.
The major issue for me is the lack of content overall, particularly challenging and interesting content for PvE play. I've never quite understood the enthusiasm that many in the community have for spending money on a new ship, kitting it out, and then flying it in a TFO that they will have flown many 100s or 1000s of times. If people enjoy that, good luck to them. But personally, I'd like to be challenged in other ways, rather than just trying to melt ships in ISA 10 seconds quicker than last week.
Ideally, when you go into a TFO there should be some dynamic variation. If you take ISA for example, if after destroying the initial bunch of mobs in front of the gateway the whole of the team goes to Pylon 1, then maybe all the enemies at Pylon 2 should then be redeployed and fly over to defend Pylon 1. As it is, Borg 25km away at Pylon 2 just wait for their allies to get nuked at Pylon 1. It's kind of silly really...
Or take Dranuur Gauntlet - if the mobs at Alpha are getting nuked before being able to land a shot on the satellite, they should maybe warp in to Gamma instead and mass there. This would require the players to redeploy to the satellite which is under heavy attack.
These are all just small suggestions, that would make TFOs more engaging, more dynamic and a bit more interesting.
As a general response to the forum complaints/CDFing/etc: I have no issue with someone criticizing the game or defending it as long as they are not ONLY doing one or the other. A "normal" person will do both; criticize the things they don't like, but defend or praise the things they do like.
Anyone whose entire forum "personality" is based on either extreme end of the spectrum (always bashing the game or always defending single thing) has a problem.
I'll admit that I do generally fall into the defending category. But I also genuinely love this game, and the changes to a video game don't affect my world beyond a minor annoyance. So I tend to "defend" in the sense I get frustrated when players take shots at the devs and folks personally, because that's on a whole other level.
The fact that the game is still going, despite it's many problems and troubled history, is proof enough that the underlying concept and game are solid. The execution is usually the sore spot for a lot of people. And yeah, I like the game. A lot, in fact. But there's nothing I like that I can't also find cause to criticize, too, because nothing is ever perfect. Perfection doesn't exist in reality. There's always room to improve, always some place where another set of eyes would have helped.
And that's the key, criticism.
Criticism is fine. You can't get feedback without a dose of criticism. The issue is that many players take it too far, and start swinging with accusations or theories on behind-the-scenes stuff. That's when it gets pointless.
However their predilection for repeated ongoing bug waves and content drops that instantly break other aspects of their game suggests no quality control inhouse, general incompetence by the devs or that their servers and/or other equipment needs to be replaced? Bad management might be a factor, but none of this matters when they probably just ignore forum complaints.
That's a whole lot of pointless assumptions and accusations.
WoW had a bug that literally rolled back every character's progression on an entire server. It happens.
The issue is when they do nothing about it, which in this case Cryptic is clearly doing something about it asap.
The fact that the game is still going, despite it's many problems and troubled history, is proof enough that the underlying concept and game are solid.
Unfortunately the IP makes that impossible to actually determine. Yes, I really enjoy this game. I have played it since beta and spent a ton of money on it over the years. On the other hand, if it were not Trek I probably wouldn't have done that. For example, because the connie is such an iconic ship I love so much, I was willing to get every lockbox version plus buy the legendary bundle. I would not have had that love/connection to some generic ship in some generic scifi game, and therefore would not have been willing to spend as much.
So yes, I do enjoy the basic mechanics and elements of this game. But it's pretty much impossible to determine how much less money it would have made over the years if it weren't Trek, and if it would even still be around if it didn't have all of the love of the IP driving people's spending.
The fact that the game is still going, despite it's many problems and troubled history, is proof enough that the underlying concept and game are solid.
Unfortunately the IP makes that impossible to actually determine. Yes, I really enjoy this game. I have played it since beta and spent a ton of money on it over the years. On the other hand, if it were not Trek I probably wouldn't have done that. For example, because the connie is such an iconic ship I love so much, I was willing to get every lockbox version plus buy the legendary bundle. I would not have had that love/connection to some generic ship in some generic scifi game, and therefore would not have been willing to spend as much.
So yes, I do enjoy the basic mechanics and elements of this game. But it's pretty much impossible to determine how much less money it would have made over the years if it weren't Trek, and if it would even still be around if it didn't have all of the love of the IP driving people's spending.
I tend to agree. STO's mechanics, some of them at least, are pretty basic compared to other bigger MMOs. But I also don't enjoy those MMOs near as much as I enjoy STO, because they aren't Trek. And in a way I like that STO is a little simpler, that it offers lots of freebies, etc because I come here mainly for the Trek fun, not the competitive edge.
However their predilection for repeated ongoing bug waves and content drops that instantly break other aspects of their game suggests no quality control inhouse, general incompetence by the devs or that their servers and/or other equipment needs to be replaced? Bad management might be a factor, but none of this matters when they probably just ignore forum complaints.
That's a whole lot of pointless assumptions and accusations.
WoW had a bug that literally rolled back every character's progression on an entire server. It happens.
The issue is when they do nothing about it, which in this case Cryptic is clearly doing something about it asap.
It's pointless i give you that but it sure it sure isn't false. I don't remember a major update with new stuff and it working right out of the box. The Quality Checking for this game is the Player base otherwise I have no idea how stuff this broken gets released and it isn't the first or second time and it wont be the last. The pointless part is to talk about it because it will happen again because Cryptic hasn't changed much in the past 10 years in regards to their releases and I highly doubt they will do it in the future.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
However their predilection for repeated ongoing bug waves and content drops that instantly break other aspects of their game suggests no quality control inhouse, general incompetence by the devs or that their servers and/or other equipment needs to be replaced? Bad management might be a factor, but none of this matters when they probably just ignore forum complaints.
That's a whole lot of pointless assumptions and accusations.
WoW had a bug that literally rolled back every character's progression on an entire server. It happens.
The issue is when they do nothing about it, which in this case Cryptic is clearly doing something about it asap.
It's pointless i give you that but it sure it sure isn't false. I don't remember a major update with new stuff and it working right out of the box. The Quality Checking for this game is the Player base otherwise I have no idea how stuff this broken gets released and it isn't the first or second time and it wont be the last. The pointless part is to talk about it because it will happen again because Cryptic hasn't changed much in the past 10 years in regards to their releases and I highly doubt they will do it in the future.
I mean, you literally quoted the part where I mentioned that WoW released an update that accidentally rolled back years' worth of character progression.
It happens, especially during a pandemic like this. This is not a Cryptic-specific issue. What matters is that they see they made a mistake, and took the game offline to fix it. If they left it online and said 'eh, we'll get to it later' that'd be a different story.
I hope they extend the event, also for the free Phoenixbox which many cannot enjoy in two days and certainly not in Europe, this day is a lost day for Europeans and maybe others.
I hope they extend the event, also for the free Phoenixbox which many cannot enjoy in two days and certainly not in Europe, this day is a lost day for Europeans and maybe others.
That'd be nice, especially if it goes on for much longer. Then lots of folk's 20hr cooldowns would've been up, so losing progress.
As a general response to the forum complaints/CDFing/etc: I have no issue with someone criticizing the game or defending it as long as they are not ONLY doing one or the other. A "normal" person will do both; criticize the things they don't like, but defend or praise the things they do like.
Anyone whose entire forum "personality" is based on either extreme end of the spectrum (always bashing the game or always defending single thing) has a problem.
I'll admit that I do generally fall into the defending category. But I also genuinely love this game, and the changes to a video game don't affect my world beyond a minor annoyance. So I tend to "defend" in the sense I get frustrated when players take shots at the devs and folks personally, because that's on a whole other level.
The fact that the game is still going, despite it's many problems and troubled history, is proof enough that the underlying concept and game are solid. The execution is usually the sore spot for a lot of people. And yeah, I like the game. A lot, in fact. But there's nothing I like that I can't also find cause to criticize, too, because nothing is ever perfect. Perfection doesn't exist in reality. There's always room to improve, always some place where another set of eyes would have helped.
And that's the key, criticism.
Criticism is fine. You can't get feedback without a dose of criticism. The issue is that many players take it too far, and start swinging with accusations or theories on behind-the-scenes stuff. That's when it gets pointless.
I guess it depends on where you personally draw the line of "too far" though. That line is different for everyone. I hope that when I do criticize it's taken in the spirit intended, meant to be constructive rather than destructive. If it isn't taken that way it's never my intent. I'm not going to take the time to post something in a forum for a game that I don't enjoy enough to want to play again. A very negative review somewhere else, for people who haven't bought it yet, sure. But in the game forum itself? No point. Anybody there has already played the game and decided for themselves if they liked it or not.
But in the case of STO overall I very much enjoy the game. There are items on my wishlist, sure. But all in all it's provided a lot of entertainment for my dollar.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
I hope they extend the event, also for the free Phoenixbox which many cannot enjoy in two days and certainly not in Europe, this day is a lost day for Europeans and maybe others.
They generally do compensate players for lost time in situations like this that are outside player control.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
As a general response to the forum complaints/CDFing/etc: I have no issue with someone criticizing the game or defending it as long as they are not ONLY doing one or the other. A "normal" person will do both; criticize the things they don't like, but defend or praise the things they do like.
Anyone whose entire forum "personality" is based on either extreme end of the spectrum (always bashing the game or always defending single thing) has a problem.
I'll admit that I do generally fall into the defending category. But I also genuinely love this game, and the changes to a video game don't affect my world beyond a minor annoyance. So I tend to "defend" in the sense I get frustrated when players take shots at the devs and folks personally, because that's on a whole other level.
The fact that the game is still going, despite it's many problems and troubled history, is proof enough that the underlying concept and game are solid. The execution is usually the sore spot for a lot of people. And yeah, I like the game. A lot, in fact. But there's nothing I like that I can't also find cause to criticize, too, because nothing is ever perfect. Perfection doesn't exist in reality. There's always room to improve, always some place where another set of eyes would have helped.
And that's the key, criticism.
Criticism is fine. You can't get feedback without a dose of criticism. The issue is that many players take it too far, and start swinging with accusations or theories on behind-the-scenes stuff. That's when it gets pointless.
I guess it depends on where you personally draw the line of "too far" though. That line is different for everyone. I hope that when I do criticize it's taken in the spirit intended, meant to be constructive rather than destructive. If it isn't taken that way it's never my intent. I'm not going to take the time to post something in a forum for a game that I don't enjoy enough to want to play again. A very negative review somewhere else, for people who haven't bought it yet, sure. But in the game forum itself? No point. Anybody there has already played the game and decided for themselves if they liked it or not.
But in the case of STO overall I very much enjoy the game. There are items on my wishlist, sure. But all in all it's provided a lot of entertainment for my dollar.
In this case, I draw the line as making personal accusations (against the devs and management), and a player coming in and claiming they have irrefutable knowledge of something none of us actually can verify.
I think I'll be late for today, it is already 21h European time (Belgium), grab a bag of chips and a cold beer and go and have a look at Star Trek Beyond that I recorded last Saturday. If STO still comes online, a lot of fun for everyone.
However their predilection for repeated ongoing bug waves and content drops that instantly break other aspects of their game suggests no quality control inhouse, general incompetence by the devs or that their servers and/or other equipment needs to be replaced? Bad management might be a factor, but none of this matters when they probably just ignore forum complaints.
That's a whole lot of pointless assumptions and accusations.
WoW had a bug that literally rolled back every character's progression on an entire server. It happens.
The issue is when they do nothing about it, which in this case Cryptic is clearly doing something about it asap.
It's pointless i give you that but it sure it sure isn't false. I don't remember a major update with new stuff and it working right out of the box. The Quality Checking for this game is the Player base otherwise I have no idea how stuff this broken gets released and it isn't the first or second time and it wont be the last. The pointless part is to talk about it because it will happen again because Cryptic hasn't changed much in the past 10 years in regards to their releases and I highly doubt they will do it in the future.
I mean, you literally quoted the part where I mentioned that WoW released an update that accidentally rolled back years' worth of character progression.
It happens, especially during a pandemic like this. This is not a Cryptic-specific issue. What matters is that they see they made a mistake, and took the game offline to fix it. If they left it online and said 'eh, we'll get to it later' that'd be a different story.
Except for the fact that it happens every single time, so let's not hide behind the "it happens" and the damned pandemic, uhm?
And what's worse: it will continue to happen because they are absolutely incapable of learning from past mistakes.
They also have a test server that is completely useless, because they ignore whatever feedback they get back from it.
In the end, what's pointless is this try at defending something that really cannot be defended because it has been going on for literal years with no change, ever.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
However their predilection for repeated ongoing bug waves and content drops that instantly break other aspects of their game suggests no quality control inhouse, general incompetence by the devs or that their servers and/or other equipment needs to be replaced? Bad management might be a factor, but none of this matters when they probably just ignore forum complaints.
That's a whole lot of pointless assumptions and accusations.
WoW had a bug that literally rolled back every character's progression on an entire server. It happens.
The issue is when they do nothing about it, which in this case Cryptic is clearly doing something about it asap.
It's pointless i give you that but it sure it sure isn't false. I don't remember a major update with new stuff and it working right out of the box. The Quality Checking for this game is the Player base otherwise I have no idea how stuff this broken gets released and it isn't the first or second time and it wont be the last. The pointless part is to talk about it because it will happen again because Cryptic hasn't changed much in the past 10 years in regards to their releases and I highly doubt they will do it in the future.
I mean, you literally quoted the part where I mentioned that WoW released an update that accidentally rolled back years' worth of character progression.
It happens, especially during a pandemic like this. This is not a Cryptic-specific issue. What matters is that they see they made a mistake, and took the game offline to fix it. If they left it online and said 'eh, we'll get to it later' that'd be a different story.
Except for the fact that it happens every single time, so let's not hide behind the "it happens" and the damned pandemic, uhm?
And what's worse: it will continue to happen because they are absolutely incapable of learning from past mistakes.
They also have a test server that is completely useless, because they ignore whatever feedback they get back from it.
In the end, what's pointless is this try at defending something that really cannot be defended because it has been going on for literal years with no change, ever.
I'm not defending it. I'm saying that's just how the game industry does things. Like I said before, WoW accidentally rolled back years of character progression on a server.
It sucks, but this is an industry-wide problem. And I'm just kinda used to it by now, and I don't get angry over it.
However their predilection for repeated ongoing bug waves and content drops that instantly break other aspects of their game suggests no quality control inhouse, general incompetence by the devs or that their servers and/or other equipment needs to be replaced? Bad management might be a factor, but none of this matters when they probably just ignore forum complaints.
That's a whole lot of pointless assumptions and accusations.
WoW had a bug that literally rolled back every character's progression on an entire server. It happens.
The issue is when they do nothing about it, which in this case Cryptic is clearly doing something about it asap.
It's pointless i give you that but it sure it sure isn't false. I don't remember a major update with new stuff and it working right out of the box. The Quality Checking for this game is the Player base otherwise I have no idea how stuff this broken gets released and it isn't the first or second time and it wont be the last. The pointless part is to talk about it because it will happen again because Cryptic hasn't changed much in the past 10 years in regards to their releases and I highly doubt they will do it in the future.
I mean, you literally quoted the part where I mentioned that WoW released an update that accidentally rolled back years' worth of character progression.
It happens, especially during a pandemic like this. This is not a Cryptic-specific issue. What matters is that they see they made a mistake, and took the game offline to fix it. If they left it online and said 'eh, we'll get to it later' that'd be a different story.
Except for the fact that it happens every single time, so let's not hide behind the "it happens" and the damned pandemic, uhm?
And what's worse: it will continue to happen because they are absolutely incapable of learning from past mistakes.
They also have a test server that is completely useless, because they ignore whatever feedback they get back from it.
In the end, what's pointless is this try at defending something that really cannot be defended because it has been going on for literal years with no change, ever.
I'm not defending it. I'm saying that's just how the game industry does things. Like I said before, WoW accidentally rolled back years of character progression on a server.
It sucks, but this is an industry-wide problem. And I'm just kinda used to it by now, and I don't get angry over it.
Even if it's not your intent, saying "it's an industry wide problem" is effectively defending it. OR at the very least, it is trying to lessen the "blame" on Cryptic and spread it out over the entire gaming industry.
That's not to say all of the criticism Cryptic gets is fair, either. I completely admit people most people (including me) simply have no idea how video games work and what is actually the "fault" of a developer and what is beyond their control.
But if we are going to give them credit for doing cool things like VIL, then they also have to take the blame for problems. It can't be praise them for the good work, but excuse away the bad stuff as industry wide problems.
I am afraid to log in now the server is back up, for fear of what else might be broken.
It does not help that there has been little to no communication (apparently unless you count the German Twitter account) about what has or has not been fixed, and according to another post the Phoenix Pack mission is still bugged.
Update: I've also heard that missing characters have not yet been restored by this maintenance, at least for some people, so its looking like much of this is not going to be resolved as quickly as hoped.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
edited October 2020
The problem comes from people just defaulting to Hulk Smash Rage and assuming things rather than trying to figure out exactly what the problem is, and basically saying it was intentional rather than what most problems may be, an accident.
If something is Cryptic's fault, then yes that is on them. But if its a pure accident, then why default to the pitchforks? People don't differenciate between accidental and intentional. To them its all "proof of incompetence" and must get the pitchforks. "How could they put this broken POS out like this! INCOMPETENCE! RAGE!"
They don't consider that possibly internal testing didn't reveal problems, and Tribble testing didn't either. What is the one variable between the test servers and the live server? Sheer population. Internally it may have run just fine. But that's still with a small group, which makes it impossible to stress test every possible weak point. And an update this big... there's bound to be stress points that will break under pressure. And it did. We don't know how or where, but clearly it did. But the fact they pushed it out like this says that under their testing it appeared fine. Then it hit the live server with magnitudes more players... and it borked all to hell.
If someone is to blame, then it should be with proper justification. Someone fell asleep on the job then its deserved. Not just "something went wrong, ATTACK! BANZAI!" every frickin' chance.
Shtako happens.
Am I gonna rage and demand blood over it? No.
Will I express frustration? Yes, but not to THAT extreme.
Will I go rage mode over anything? Depends on what it is. Throwing up paywalls like EA did for content will probably cause a rage response. Not every little thing that happens every frickin' day, and I'm not going to go LOOKING for any excuse to rage.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Finding now I'm in
1. Pressing power tray and nothing happens intermittently almost as if my mouse button was not working which it is
2. Using right mouse key to rotate camera either doesn't work or the camera sticks and is rotating with my mouse movements intermittently difficult to unstick with the right mouse key
3. I was firing at the Tzenkethi in the battle zone and the graphics were like some invisible block around them the graphics weren't showing shield impacts or hull.
What annoys me isn't that they screwed up. Anyone can get things wrong, particularly with the Covid situation. It's what you do about putting it right again that is important. Quite clearly they have lot of unhappy customers and the silence from management is deafening.
If something is Cryptic's fault, then yes that is on them.
Well, the problem is it will almost(key word) never actually be presented that way. Even if it is completely their fault, Kael or someone will probably try to come up with an explanation that doesn't make it sound that way. No, I don't mean a "lie"; but the typical PR stuff that every company does to cover their butt and make everything sound as good as possible even when it's not.
So saying 'if something is Cryptic's fault it's ok to blame them" is almost pointless when they would virtually never actually admit to that situation.
All of that said, I agree people need to remember it's just a video game at the end of the day.
However their predilection for repeated ongoing bug waves and content drops that instantly break other aspects of their game suggests no quality control inhouse, general incompetence by the devs or that their servers and/or other equipment needs to be replaced? Bad management might be a factor, but none of this matters when they probably just ignore forum complaints.
That's a whole lot of pointless assumptions and accusations.
WoW had a bug that literally rolled back every character's progression on an entire server. It happens.
The issue is when they do nothing about it, which in this case Cryptic is clearly doing something about it asap.
It's pointless i give you that but it sure it sure isn't false. I don't remember a major update with new stuff and it working right out of the box. The Quality Checking for this game is the Player base otherwise I have no idea how stuff this broken gets released and it isn't the first or second time and it wont be the last. The pointless part is to talk about it because it will happen again because Cryptic hasn't changed much in the past 10 years in regards to their releases and I highly doubt they will do it in the future.
I mean, you literally quoted the part where I mentioned that WoW released an update that accidentally rolled back years' worth of character progression.
It happens, especially during a pandemic like this. This is not a Cryptic-specific issue. What matters is that they see they made a mistake, and took the game offline to fix it. If they left it online and said 'eh, we'll get to it later' that'd be a different story.
Except for the fact that it happens every single time, so let's not hide behind the "it happens" and the damned pandemic, uhm?
And what's worse: it will continue to happen because they are absolutely incapable of learning from past mistakes.
They also have a test server that is completely useless, because they ignore whatever feedback they get back from it.
In the end, what's pointless is this try at defending something that really cannot be defended because it has been going on for literal years with no change, ever.
I'm not defending it. I'm saying that's just how the game industry does things. Like I said before, WoW accidentally rolled back years of character progression on a server.
It sucks, but this is an industry-wide problem. And I'm just kinda used to it by now, and I don't get angry over it.
Even if it's not your intent, saying "it's an industry wide problem" is effectively defending it. OR at the very least, it is trying to lessen the "blame" on Cryptic and spread it out over the entire gaming industry.
That's not to say all of the criticism Cryptic gets is fair, either. I completely admit people most people (including me) simply have no idea how video games work and what is actually the "fault" of a developer and what is beyond their control.
But if we are going to give them credit for doing cool things like VIL, then they also have to take the blame for problems. It can't be praise them for the good work, but excuse away the bad stuff as industry wide problems.
I guess I feel a lot like Rattler here. I just can't find a reason to be upset or start accusing people I don't know of incompetence.
It's just a game. I have a blast in the game and really love it, but very few things really affect my enjoyment of it. Glitches, most changes, doesn't bother me. I've been playing since 2014, and I'd say my experience with this company and the product is 95% positive, if not more. And that's not CDF-talk, that's me being truthful. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here.
What confuses the heck outta me is people being getting actually angry, directing hate or just accusing others of incompetence of doing something evil. If I thought that of Cryptic or the game, I'd just leave. I've left games before, because I stopped enjoying them or the company. I'd do the same here, if I had reason to.
So sure, it seems like I defend a lot. Really, I'm just being truthful about my enjoyment. If and when I stop enjoying the game as-is, I will leave. And I really do ask the people who think Cryptic is corrupt or incompetent, maybe y'all have hit that point where it's time to find another game?
If something is Cryptic's fault, then yes that is on them.
Well, the problem is it will almost(key word) never actually be presented that way. Even if it is completely their fault, Kael or someone will probably try to come up with an explanation that doesn't make it sound that way. No, I don't mean a "lie"; but the typical PR stuff that every company does to cover their butt and make everything sound as good as possible even when it's not.
So saying 'if something is Cryptic's fault it's ok to blame them" is almost pointless when they would virtually never actually admit to that situation.
All of that said, I agree people need to remember it's just a video game at the end of the day.
This came in as I was typing my other reply.
I'll say things are Cryptic's fault. The Foundry should still exist. It was a major feature of the game, that was mismanaged to the point where they actually admitted the expertise on maintaining the Foundry was gone. In that, yeah they absolutely tribbled up (pre-empting the text filter here, lol).
But I'm not going to say the management is incompetent or bad. Do I disagree with what they did? YES. But obviously they made a decision, just one I didn't like. I moved on.
What confuses the heck outta me is people being getting actually angry, directing hate or just accusing others of incompetence of doing something evil.
Yeah, I agree on all of that stuff. Some people go way too far, and need to just step back and get some fresh air.
And in fairness like you said, a big criticism I have right now is the team's communication has been real bad. When you don't communicate with your players on game-breaking issues, you're asking for a forum fire.
However their predilection for repeated ongoing bug waves and content drops that instantly break other aspects of their game suggests no quality control inhouse, general incompetence by the devs or that their servers and/or other equipment needs to be replaced? Bad management might be a factor, but none of this matters when they probably just ignore forum complaints.
That's a whole lot of pointless assumptions and accusations.
WoW had a bug that literally rolled back every character's progression on an entire server. It happens.
The issue is when they do nothing about it, which in this case Cryptic is clearly doing something about it asap.
It's pointless i give you that but it sure it sure isn't false. I don't remember a major update with new stuff and it working right out of the box. The Quality Checking for this game is the Player base otherwise I have no idea how stuff this broken gets released and it isn't the first or second time and it wont be the last. The pointless part is to talk about it because it will happen again because Cryptic hasn't changed much in the past 10 years in regards to their releases and I highly doubt they will do it in the future.
I mean, you literally quoted the part where I mentioned that WoW released an update that accidentally rolled back years' worth of character progression.
It happens, especially during a pandemic like this. This is not a Cryptic-specific issue. What matters is that they see they made a mistake, and took the game offline to fix it. If they left it online and said 'eh, we'll get to it later' that'd be a different story.
Except for the fact that it happens every single time, so let's not hide behind the "it happens" and the damned pandemic, uhm?
And what's worse: it will continue to happen because they are absolutely incapable of learning from past mistakes.
They also have a test server that is completely useless, because they ignore whatever feedback they get back from it.
In the end, what's pointless is this try at defending something that really cannot be defended because it has been going on for literal years with no change, ever.
I'm not defending it. I'm saying that's just how the game industry does things. Like I said before, WoW accidentally rolled back years of character progression on a server.
It sucks, but this is an industry-wide problem. And I'm just kinda used to it by now, and I don't get angry over it.
Even if it's not your intent, saying "it's an industry wide problem" is effectively defending it. OR at the very least, it is trying to lessen the "blame" on Cryptic and spread it out over the entire gaming industry.
That's not to say all of the criticism Cryptic gets is fair, either. I completely admit people most people (including me) simply have no idea how video games work and what is actually the "fault" of a developer and what is beyond their control.
But if we are going to give them credit for doing cool things like VIL, then they also have to take the blame for problems. It can't be praise them for the good work, but excuse away the bad stuff as industry wide problems.
I guess I feel a lot like Rattler here. I just can't find a reason to be upset or start accusing people I don't know of incompetence.
It's just a game. I have a blast in the game and really love it, but very few things really affect my enjoyment of it. Glitches, most changes, doesn't bother me. I've been playing since 2014, and I'd say my experience with this company and the product is 95% positive, if not more. And that's not CDF-talk, that's me being truthful. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here.
What confuses the heck outta me is people being getting actually angry, directing hate or just accusing others of incompetence of doing something evil. If I thought that of Cryptic or the game, I'd just leave. I've left games before, because I stopped enjoying them or the company. I'd do the same here, if I had reason to.
So sure, it seems like I defend a lot. Really, I'm just being truthful about my enjoyment. If and when I stop enjoying the game as-is, I will leave. And I really do ask the people who think Cryptic is corrupt or incompetent, maybe y'all have hit that point where it's time to find another game?
I do get what you said, after what happened to my chars, i could be incredibly angry, but i do understand that this things can happen, it's rare, but they do!, so, i'm just waiting for a fix, and well, hope thay i get everything back.
Comments
I've played MMORPGs for for the best part of 12 years from WoW to ESO to STO. Patch days sometimes throw up problems. This isn't a particularly abnormal event.
I can deal with a few issues on patch day and a few days after, provided there is reasonable communication from the devs and that they are reasonably efficient with fixing the bugs.
With STO, patch day bugs do not really bother me too much. But there is a growing list of other issues - some persistent, longer term problems that are not really addressed. For example, there's the still unfixed lag spikes and misfiring powers (getting on for a few years now?), which has been acknowleged by Cryptic, but there's been no real improvement.
The major issue for me is the lack of content overall, particularly challenging and interesting content for PvE play. I've never quite understood the enthusiasm that many in the community have for spending money on a new ship, kitting it out, and then flying it in a TFO that they will have flown many 100s or 1000s of times. If people enjoy that, good luck to them. But personally, I'd like to be challenged in other ways, rather than just trying to melt ships in ISA 10 seconds quicker than last week.
Ideally, when you go into a TFO there should be some dynamic variation. If you take ISA for example, if after destroying the initial bunch of mobs in front of the gateway the whole of the team goes to Pylon 1, then maybe all the enemies at Pylon 2 should then be redeployed and fly over to defend Pylon 1. As it is, Borg 25km away at Pylon 2 just wait for their allies to get nuked at Pylon 1. It's kind of silly really...
Or take Dranuur Gauntlet - if the mobs at Alpha are getting nuked before being able to land a shot on the satellite, they should maybe warp in to Gamma instead and mass there. This would require the players to redeploy to the satellite which is under heavy attack.
These are all just small suggestions, that would make TFOs more engaging, more dynamic and a bit more interesting.
Criticism is fine. You can't get feedback without a dose of criticism. The issue is that many players take it too far, and start swinging with accusations or theories on behind-the-scenes stuff. That's when it gets pointless.
WoW had a bug that literally rolled back every character's progression on an entire server. It happens.
The issue is when they do nothing about it, which in this case Cryptic is clearly doing something about it asap.
Unfortunately the IP makes that impossible to actually determine. Yes, I really enjoy this game. I have played it since beta and spent a ton of money on it over the years. On the other hand, if it were not Trek I probably wouldn't have done that. For example, because the connie is such an iconic ship I love so much, I was willing to get every lockbox version plus buy the legendary bundle. I would not have had that love/connection to some generic ship in some generic scifi game, and therefore would not have been willing to spend as much.
So yes, I do enjoy the basic mechanics and elements of this game. But it's pretty much impossible to determine how much less money it would have made over the years if it weren't Trek, and if it would even still be around if it didn't have all of the love of the IP driving people's spending.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It's pointless i give you that but it sure it sure isn't false. I don't remember a major update with new stuff and it working right out of the box. The Quality Checking for this game is the Player base otherwise I have no idea how stuff this broken gets released and it isn't the first or second time and it wont be the last. The pointless part is to talk about it because it will happen again because Cryptic hasn't changed much in the past 10 years in regards to their releases and I highly doubt they will do it in the future.
30 minutes added to uptime est
It happens, especially during a pandemic like this. This is not a Cryptic-specific issue. What matters is that they see they made a mistake, and took the game offline to fix it. If they left it online and said 'eh, we'll get to it later' that'd be a different story.
I guess it depends on where you personally draw the line of "too far" though. That line is different for everyone. I hope that when I do criticize it's taken in the spirit intended, meant to be constructive rather than destructive. If it isn't taken that way it's never my intent. I'm not going to take the time to post something in a forum for a game that I don't enjoy enough to want to play again. A very negative review somewhere else, for people who haven't bought it yet, sure. But in the game forum itself? No point. Anybody there has already played the game and decided for themselves if they liked it or not.
But in the case of STO overall I very much enjoy the game. There are items on my wishlist, sure. But all in all it's provided a lot of entertainment for my dollar.
They generally do compensate players for lost time in situations like this that are outside player control.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Except for the fact that it happens every single time, so let's not hide behind the "it happens" and the damned pandemic, uhm?
And what's worse: it will continue to happen because they are absolutely incapable of learning from past mistakes.
They also have a test server that is completely useless, because they ignore whatever feedback they get back from it.
In the end, what's pointless is this try at defending something that really cannot be defended because it has been going on for literal years with no change, ever.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
It sucks, but this is an industry-wide problem. And I'm just kinda used to it by now, and I don't get angry over it.
Even if it's not your intent, saying "it's an industry wide problem" is effectively defending it. OR at the very least, it is trying to lessen the "blame" on Cryptic and spread it out over the entire gaming industry.
That's not to say all of the criticism Cryptic gets is fair, either. I completely admit people most people (including me) simply have no idea how video games work and what is actually the "fault" of a developer and what is beyond their control.
But if we are going to give them credit for doing cool things like VIL, then they also have to take the blame for problems. It can't be praise them for the good work, but excuse away the bad stuff as industry wide problems.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It does not help that there has been little to no communication (apparently unless you count the German Twitter account) about what has or has not been fixed, and according to another post the Phoenix Pack mission is still bugged.
Update: I've also heard that missing characters have not yet been restored by this maintenance, at least for some people, so its looking like much of this is not going to be resolved as quickly as hoped.
If something is Cryptic's fault, then yes that is on them. But if its a pure accident, then why default to the pitchforks? People don't differenciate between accidental and intentional. To them its all "proof of incompetence" and must get the pitchforks. "How could they put this broken POS out like this! INCOMPETENCE! RAGE!"
They don't consider that possibly internal testing didn't reveal problems, and Tribble testing didn't either. What is the one variable between the test servers and the live server? Sheer population. Internally it may have run just fine. But that's still with a small group, which makes it impossible to stress test every possible weak point. And an update this big... there's bound to be stress points that will break under pressure. And it did. We don't know how or where, but clearly it did. But the fact they pushed it out like this says that under their testing it appeared fine. Then it hit the live server with magnitudes more players... and it borked all to hell.
If someone is to blame, then it should be with proper justification. Someone fell asleep on the job then its deserved. Not just "something went wrong, ATTACK! BANZAI!" every frickin' chance.
Shtako happens.
Am I gonna rage and demand blood over it? No.
Will I express frustration? Yes, but not to THAT extreme.
Will I go rage mode over anything? Depends on what it is. Throwing up paywalls like EA did for content will probably cause a rage response. Not every little thing that happens every frickin' day, and I'm not going to go LOOKING for any excuse to rage.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
1. Pressing power tray and nothing happens intermittently almost as if my mouse button was not working which it is
2. Using right mouse key to rotate camera either doesn't work or the camera sticks and is rotating with my mouse movements intermittently difficult to unstick with the right mouse key
3. I was firing at the Tzenkethi in the battle zone and the graphics were like some invisible block around them the graphics weren't showing shield impacts or hull.
Well, the problem is it will almost(key word) never actually be presented that way. Even if it is completely their fault, Kael or someone will probably try to come up with an explanation that doesn't make it sound that way. No, I don't mean a "lie"; but the typical PR stuff that every company does to cover their butt and make everything sound as good as possible even when it's not.
So saying 'if something is Cryptic's fault it's ok to blame them" is almost pointless when they would virtually never actually admit to that situation.
All of that said, I agree people need to remember it's just a video game at the end of the day.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It's just a game. I have a blast in the game and really love it, but very few things really affect my enjoyment of it. Glitches, most changes, doesn't bother me. I've been playing since 2014, and I'd say my experience with this company and the product is 95% positive, if not more. And that's not CDF-talk, that's me being truthful. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here.
What confuses the heck outta me is people being getting actually angry, directing hate or just accusing others of incompetence of doing something evil. If I thought that of Cryptic or the game, I'd just leave. I've left games before, because I stopped enjoying them or the company. I'd do the same here, if I had reason to.
So sure, it seems like I defend a lot. Really, I'm just being truthful about my enjoyment. If and when I stop enjoying the game as-is, I will leave. And I really do ask the people who think Cryptic is corrupt or incompetent, maybe y'all have hit that point where it's time to find another game?
I'll say things are Cryptic's fault. The Foundry should still exist. It was a major feature of the game, that was mismanaged to the point where they actually admitted the expertise on maintaining the Foundry was gone. In that, yeah they absolutely tribbled up (pre-empting the text filter here, lol).
But I'm not going to say the management is incompetent or bad. Do I disagree with what they did? YES. But obviously they made a decision, just one I didn't like. I moved on.
Yeah, I agree on all of that stuff. Some people go way too far, and need to just step back and get some fresh air.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
And in fairness like you said, a big criticism I have right now is the team's communication has been real bad. When you don't communicate with your players on game-breaking issues, you're asking for a forum fire.
I do get what you said, after what happened to my chars, i could be incredibly angry, but i do understand that this things can happen, it's rare, but they do!, so, i'm just waiting for a fix, and well, hope thay i get everything back.