Except we have zero actual evidence to suggest poor management.
But you literally never will, because Cryptic will never said "yeah, we're having management problems". They will literally never say that, even if it is 100% true.
So let me give you a hypothetical scenario: let's say company-X has terrible management, but will NEVER admit it. Are you saying no one can question whether they have bad management just because the company itself isn't willing to admit it?
To be clear: I'm not saying Cryptic does have bad management. But there has to be some way to discuss whether they do or not without simply dismissing all potential criticism when Cryptic would never admit to the problem even if it existed.
Except we have zero actual evidence to suggest poor management.
But you literally never will, because Cryptic will never said "yeah, we're having management problems". They will literally never say that, even if it is 100% true.
So let me give you a hypothetical scenario: let's say company-X has terrible management, but will NEVER admit it. Are you saying no one can question whether they have bad management just because the company itself isn't willing to admit it?
To be clear: I'm not saying Cryptic does have bad management. But there has to be some way to discuss whether they do or not without simply dismissing all potential criticism when Cryptic would never admit to the problem even if it existed.
No, but you nailed my point I think. Just coming at it from the other way.
I'm not saying Cryptic's management has to be perfect and no one can question it. I am saying that the accusation made here is pretty baseless, and that's what I'm calling out. Cryptic's management may be the problem, but I have no reason to take the word of someone who works in an IT shop not in gaming as '"proof" of poor management.
Broken Direct X for many
Broken Free Phoenix Boxes
Broken TFO
Broken Server
Yep House Shattered
They've also shattered my patience with that new TFO...too long, too boring. However, I will take another free T7 token as...compensation...for their many blasphemies.
Except we have zero actual evidence to suggest poor management.
But you literally never will, because Cryptic will never said "yeah, we're having management problems". They will literally never say that, even if it is 100% true.
So let me give you a hypothetical scenario: let's say company-X has terrible management, but will NEVER admit it. Are you saying no one can question whether they have bad management just because the company itself isn't willing to admit it?
To be clear: I'm not saying Cryptic does have bad management. But there has to be some way to discuss whether they do or not without simply dismissing all potential criticism when Cryptic would never admit to the problem even if it existed.
No, but you nailed my point I think. Just coming at it from the other way.
I'm not saying Cryptic's management has to be perfect and no one can question it. I am saying that the accusation made here is pretty baseless, and that's what I'm calling out. Cryptic's management may be the problem, but I have no reason to take the word of someone who works in an IT shop not in gaming as '"proof" of poor management.
That's my issue here.
Ok, so if we accept the fact that Cryptic will never tell us they are having management problems, what "proof" are you willing to actually accept?
Except we have zero actual evidence to suggest poor management.
But you literally never will, because Cryptic will never said "yeah, we're having management problems". They will literally never say that, even if it is 100% true.
So let me give you a hypothetical scenario: let's say company-X has terrible management, but will NEVER admit it. Are you saying no one can question whether they have bad management just because the company itself isn't willing to admit it?
To be clear: I'm not saying Cryptic does have bad management. But there has to be some way to discuss whether they do or not without simply dismissing all potential criticism when Cryptic would never admit to the problem even if it existed.
No, but you nailed my point I think. Just coming at it from the other way.
I'm not saying Cryptic's management has to be perfect and no one can question it. I am saying that the accusation made here is pretty baseless, and that's what I'm calling out. Cryptic's management may be the problem, but I have no reason to take the word of someone who works in an IT shop not in gaming as '"proof" of poor management.
That's my issue here.
Ok, so if we accept the fact that Cryptic will never tell us they are having management problems, what "proof" are you willing to actually accept?
In this case? I'd have to see something that makes me think it's not a pandemic-related issue that many other games are also suffering from. I'd have to see something like... maybe what EA does, where they release something broken, refuse to fix it, but still demand money for it.
And because the server is down for emergency maintenance right now, I can't link it to being a management issue. This screams IT issues during a pandemic, or maybe an issue with the Epic client integration (which other games have in fact crashed right after being released through Epic, GTA Online being a recent example).
hah, the industry is really the same all over and they all follow the same shiny release flavor of the month.
if it was bad workers its still a management problem.
ultimately whatever is the problem starts and stops with management unless management doesn't manage anything, well that won't likely work out well for the company stocks either.
Of course they won't tell us. Folk automatically throwing out 'it's bad management' are just being plain lazy. There's usually a (common sense) explanation. I'm unfortunately blessed with the patience of a saint, so I give plenty of latitiude when it comes to games, especially when you've been playing the same one for 10 years!
At the end of the day, those that watch Kael and his guests get to see for themselves whether something else is going on if they know what to look for. He's telling the truth when he said they're facing limitations in what they can access from home, so that's not bad management, that's a company protecting itself from a potential breach.
I've never understood the need to just jump right to malicious intent or stupidity at the drop of a hat. Even with the smallest thing... its right to essentially personal attacks. And some of those doing it try to sound like authorities on how things should be done... with no credentials to prove they know what they're talking about. We don't know if they are in the gaming industry or just someone who works at the local 7-11. Just "this is how it should be". IMO that sounds more like "How I want it to be" rather than reality, especially coming from the extremely aggressive individuals.
Any number of things could have caused problems. And no amount of testing can actually reveal all problems when moving a build from a low pop test server to a high pop live server. For all we know... its just the sheer population that broke it.
But the fact of the matter is that WE DON'T KNOW. We're not experts on code or networking on this scale... we're just players. We get frustrated when things don't go our way. Some... are a LOT more vocal than others, and some even go so far as to full on attack.
But I think there is one thing everyone is forgetting.
We're in the middle of a pandemic, which is hampering their ability to work as effectively as they used to. Many people are working from home, which means they aren't quite as effecient as they would be in the office.
Like Leem, I got a lot of patience because I know that sometimes... shtako happens. Especially in an MMO environment. Honestly just let them do their jobs, and we'll be blasting enemy pixels again soon enough. Really no point in getting so bent out of shape you turn into the ultimate pretzel 5 times over.
In short... why all the nuclear meltdowns? Its ok to express frustration, but does it always have to be in the form of a nuclear meltdown every day?
Some of us veteran players have seen outrage for one thing or another for years on the forums. Some justified, some not. It just feels like, especially this year, someone decided to crank the outrage dial to 11. Almost Delta Rising levels of fire. Hell... we're probably there already considering all the rage I see over anything YoK. I just don't understand the NEED for it though. All this outrage, all this fire and pitchforks... what is it going to accomplish? Nothing but drowning out actual constructive feedback. For every 1 legit concern, there's probably 50 rage posts of "we don't want that!" And in some cases when asked to clarify their position the response is just "what part of 'we don't want that' do you not understand?!" So you don't want that? What do you want? "What part of 'we don't want that' do you not understand?!"
If its not one thing, its another. Feels like anything outside of 10-Forward is now just forum fires these days. Any kind of civil discussion eventually devolves into flame wars between camps or just straight outrage seemingly for the sake of outrage. All of this... at the drop of a hat. The SLIGHTEST provocation.
2020 has been stressful on all of us. Maybe that's why this year feels like Delta Rising all over again on the forums ramped up. People need to vent.
But at the end of the day... there is one thing we ALL can agree on right?
Star Trek.
In one form or another, we like Star Trek. We may not like all aspects of it, but overall we do like it.
I should probably get off my soapbox now. Honestly didn't intend to get on one but... well... it just happened. The situation isn't ideal, but... honestly nothing is. For all its faults, STO has endured for 10 years. Longer than any one Trek series. We've seen STO rise from pretty much nothing when Perpetual dropped it and Cryptic had to pick up the pieces on an extreme time crunch. We've lived through the content drought when Atari decided to yeet the game before it got picked up by PWE. All the good and bad along the way... and here we are. Still going strong in one form or another.
Light me on fire if you want guys... I'm just... I don't get the constant need for outrage, and I am just honestly... tired of seeing it happen all the time. Nobody's perfect. If rage is called for... let it be for a justifyable reason and not just because. And lets leave out conspiracy theories on reasoning and just stick to what we know please. Because honestly... blind rage and conspiracy theories meant to try and enrage more people because reasons... its... getting old.
But the fact of the matter is that WE DON'T KNOW. We're not experts on code or networking on this scale... we're just players. We get frustrated when things don't go our way. Some... are a LOT more vocal than others, and some even go so far as to full on attack.
...
Didn't want to requote the entire thing, so just quoted a key part.
I totally agree. When I clap back like this, it's because I'm calling someone out for pretending they're the expert and know the "real story." No, we don't. And I don't either, so I'm not going to claim that I do.
I can make guesses, but they're just guesses. That's it, that's all.
That's all any of us can do. Yet there's always someone who acts like they have insider knowledge and treats it like Word of God truth. Just kinda irks me.
And lets leave out conspiracy theories on reasoning and just stick to what we know please. Because honestly... blind rage and conspiracy theories meant to try and enrage more people because reasons... its... getting old.
-resident Forum Voice of Reason
Your 1000% right, but its a sad development, The Vocal Minority gets the upper hand, you see it every time on lots of different occasions, sad but true.
That's all any of us can do. Yet there's always someone who acts like they have insider knowledge and treats it like Word of God truth. Just kinda irks me.
And then a couple people latch on and think it's actually insider knowledge, and it just goes to hell in a handbasket from there...
You'd think if the last few years of the world taught us anything, it'd be to wait and look for facts and not make baseless assumptions, or believe those who do.
As a brand new member of this wonderful community I just wanted to post here so I could feel included. Let me try.
Yeah, you suck devs. Where's my server. Uh, give me some free stuff. A nice Klingon lady blasted me in to the future now i'm stuck reading a forum like it's 1995. Aaaargh I am very angry.
As a brand new member of this wonderful community I just wanted to post here so I could feel included. Let me try.
Yeah, you suck devs. Where's my server. Uh, give me some free stuff. A nice Klingon lady blasted me in to the future now i'm stuck reading a forum like it's 1995. Aaaargh I am very angry.
As a brand new member of this wonderful community I just wanted to post here so I could feel included. Let me try.
Yeah, you suck devs. Where's my server. Uh, give me some free stuff. A nice Klingon lady blasted me in to the future now i'm stuck reading a forum like it's 1995. Aaaargh I am very angry.
Am I part of the club now? ....Guys?
LOL
All I can say is...
Think we could use some humor right about now. Thanks man.
That's all any of us can do. Yet there's always someone who acts like they have insider knowledge and treats it like Word of God truth. Just kinda irks me.
And then a couple people latch on and think it's actually insider knowledge, and it just goes to hell in a handbasket from there...
You'd think if the last few years of the world taught us anything, it'd be to wait and look for facts and not make baseless assumptions, or believe those who do.
It's not baseless. At the end of the day, ALL problems are at the feet of management. That is literally their job, to MANAGE things. If something catastrophic comes up, and management didn't plan for how to handle it, management failure. If employees can't do their job (because they're awful at it or because they don't have the tools or resources, whatever), that's also a management problem. It's their job to manage the employees, the tools, and the resources, to plan and coordinate. "Bad Management" is a default catch-all cause of any and all problems within an organization. It's like saying a sports team that always loses is a crappy team -- it's not wrong, it just lacks any underlying specifics.
So should we harp on the catch-all as you say, or maybe point the light on actual issues? Yeah, it's all on management. But if there's another issue that's actually the problem, shouldn't that be the focus?
But again, I'm not saying it is or isn't management. I'm calling foul on someone who came in from an admittedly non-game developer claiming knowledge about something.
Sadly people seem more willing to latch on to anything that re-enforces their negative preconceptions while dismissing anything that might challenge those, then to look for the reasonable explanation.
Fact of the matter is that is that the more complex something becomes easier it becomes for it to break or to for something to slip past testing. It's also a fact that given limited budget and timetable to game of this size will ever be 100% bug free and honestly I'd played games that had much worse bugs then STO has (Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness comes to mind, I couldn't get past the first level because the game bugged on me).
EDIT:Also before you accuse me of being a Cryptic plant, read the rant I posted yesterday, I'm fully capable of getting mad about not being able to play, I just don't assume it's some conspiracy targeted at me personally.
Sadly people seem more willing to latch on to anything that re-enforces their negative preconceptions while dismissing anything that might challenge those, then to look for the reasonable explanation.
Fact of the matter is that is that the more complex something becomes easier it becomes for it to break or to for something to slip past testing. It's also a fact that given limited budget and timetable to game of this size will ever be 100% bug free and honestly I'd played games that had much worse bugs then STO has (Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness comes to mind, I couldn't get past the first level because the game bugged on me).
In some cases that dismissal transforms into "beat into submission until they 'see the light'".
Some people just take it WAY too far. As I said, its ok to express frustration, but there's a fine line between simply expressing and Hulk Smash Rage Mode. And these days... seems like its just default to Hulk Smash.
As I said, its ok to express frustration, but there's a fine line between simply expressing and Hulk Smash Rage Mode. And these days... seems like its just default to Hulk Smash.
Hulk Smash Rage Mode(HSRM); outstanding, and so true. 😄
I see enough lights in my studies and I unlike some people here, studio lights don't tell you "you suck and you should go off yourself" if you want to change things, even if with photo/video shoots typically if something can go wrong it will, I remember the first live stream I had to do for my studies we had blank screen for the first few minutes because of a piece of equipment reset on us and wouldn't turn back to settings we needed (it was locked into analog input when we used HDMI).
As a general response to the forum complaints/CDFing/etc: I have no issue with someone criticizing the game or defending it as long as they are not ONLY doing one or the other. A "normal" person will do both; criticize the things they don't like, but defend or praise the things they do like.
Anyone whose entire forum "personality" is based on either extreme end of the spectrum (always bashing the game or always defending every issue) has a problem.
As a general response to the forum complaints/CDFing/etc: I have no issue with someone criticizing the game or defending it as long as they are not ONLY doing one or the other. A "normal" person will do both; criticize the things they don't like, but defend or praise the things they do like.
Anyone whose entire forum "personality" is based on either extreme end of the spectrum (always bashing the game or always defending single thing) has a problem.
I'll admit that I do generally fall into the defending category. But I also genuinely love this game, and the changes to a video game don't affect my world beyond a minor annoyance. So I tend to "defend" in the sense I get frustrated when players take shots at the devs and folks personally, because that's on a whole other level.
I'll admit that I do generally fall into the defending category. But I also genuinely love this game, and the changes to a video game don't affect my world beyond a minor annoyance. So I tend to "defend" in the sense I get frustrated when players take shots at the devs and folks personally, because that's on a whole other level.
I'm in that category too.
I was rather vocal when the old Season 7 Accolade Bug prevented one of my characters from getting the MACO set. But I wasn't malicious about it. More of a "keep it on the radar" type.
I like this game too and mostly find that it is a great way to tune out the world, turn off my brain and not overthink too much and then just blow things up and level character after character.
Escapism is my ticket to destress.
However their predilection for repeated ongoing bug waves and content drops that instantly break other aspects of their game suggests no quality control inhouse, general incompetence by the devs or that their servers and/or other equipment needs to be replaced? Bad management might be a factor, but none of this matters when they probably just ignore forum complaints.
Comments
But you literally never will, because Cryptic will never said "yeah, we're having management problems". They will literally never say that, even if it is 100% true.
So let me give you a hypothetical scenario: let's say company-X has terrible management, but will NEVER admit it. Are you saying no one can question whether they have bad management just because the company itself isn't willing to admit it?
To be clear: I'm not saying Cryptic does have bad management. But there has to be some way to discuss whether they do or not without simply dismissing all potential criticism when Cryptic would never admit to the problem even if it existed.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm not saying Cryptic's management has to be perfect and no one can question it. I am saying that the accusation made here is pretty baseless, and that's what I'm calling out. Cryptic's management may be the problem, but I have no reason to take the word of someone who works in an IT shop not in gaming as '"proof" of poor management.
That's my issue here.
They've also shattered my patience with that new TFO...too long, too boring. However, I will take another free T7 token as...compensation...for their many blasphemies.
Ok, so if we accept the fact that Cryptic will never tell us they are having management problems, what "proof" are you willing to actually accept?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
And because the server is down for emergency maintenance right now, I can't link it to being a management issue. This screams IT issues during a pandemic, or maybe an issue with the Epic client integration (which other games have in fact crashed right after being released through Epic, GTA Online being a recent example).
if it was bad workers its still a management problem.
ultimately whatever is the problem starts and stops with management unless management doesn't manage anything, well that won't likely work out well for the company stocks either.
lol
Jokes aside I guess that problem has either something to do with the Epic Store or with the last big update.
I've never understood the need to just jump right to malicious intent or stupidity at the drop of a hat. Even with the smallest thing... its right to essentially personal attacks. And some of those doing it try to sound like authorities on how things should be done... with no credentials to prove they know what they're talking about. We don't know if they are in the gaming industry or just someone who works at the local 7-11. Just "this is how it should be". IMO that sounds more like "How I want it to be" rather than reality, especially coming from the extremely aggressive individuals.
Any number of things could have caused problems. And no amount of testing can actually reveal all problems when moving a build from a low pop test server to a high pop live server. For all we know... its just the sheer population that broke it.
But the fact of the matter is that WE DON'T KNOW. We're not experts on code or networking on this scale... we're just players. We get frustrated when things don't go our way. Some... are a LOT more vocal than others, and some even go so far as to full on attack.
But I think there is one thing everyone is forgetting.
We're in the middle of a pandemic, which is hampering their ability to work as effectively as they used to. Many people are working from home, which means they aren't quite as effecient as they would be in the office.
Like Leem, I got a lot of patience because I know that sometimes... shtako happens. Especially in an MMO environment. Honestly just let them do their jobs, and we'll be blasting enemy pixels again soon enough. Really no point in getting so bent out of shape you turn into the ultimate pretzel 5 times over.
In short... why all the nuclear meltdowns? Its ok to express frustration, but does it always have to be in the form of a nuclear meltdown every day?
Some of us veteran players have seen outrage for one thing or another for years on the forums. Some justified, some not. It just feels like, especially this year, someone decided to crank the outrage dial to 11. Almost Delta Rising levels of fire. Hell... we're probably there already considering all the rage I see over anything YoK. I just don't understand the NEED for it though. All this outrage, all this fire and pitchforks... what is it going to accomplish? Nothing but drowning out actual constructive feedback. For every 1 legit concern, there's probably 50 rage posts of "we don't want that!" And in some cases when asked to clarify their position the response is just "what part of 'we don't want that' do you not understand?!" So you don't want that? What do you want? "What part of 'we don't want that' do you not understand?!"
If its not one thing, its another. Feels like anything outside of 10-Forward is now just forum fires these days. Any kind of civil discussion eventually devolves into flame wars between camps or just straight outrage seemingly for the sake of outrage. All of this... at the drop of a hat. The SLIGHTEST provocation.
2020 has been stressful on all of us. Maybe that's why this year feels like Delta Rising all over again on the forums ramped up. People need to vent.
But at the end of the day... there is one thing we ALL can agree on right?
Star Trek.
In one form or another, we like Star Trek. We may not like all aspects of it, but overall we do like it.
I should probably get off my soapbox now. Honestly didn't intend to get on one but... well... it just happened. The situation isn't ideal, but... honestly nothing is. For all its faults, STO has endured for 10 years. Longer than any one Trek series. We've seen STO rise from pretty much nothing when Perpetual dropped it and Cryptic had to pick up the pieces on an extreme time crunch. We've lived through the content drought when Atari decided to yeet the game before it got picked up by PWE. All the good and bad along the way... and here we are. Still going strong in one form or another.
Light me on fire if you want guys... I'm just... I don't get the constant need for outrage, and I am just honestly... tired of seeing it happen all the time. Nobody's perfect. If rage is called for... let it be for a justifyable reason and not just because. And lets leave out conspiracy theories on reasoning and just stick to what we know please. Because honestly... blind rage and conspiracy theories meant to try and enrage more people because reasons... its... getting old.
-resident Forum Voice of Reason
I totally agree. When I clap back like this, it's because I'm calling someone out for pretending they're the expert and know the "real story." No, we don't. And I don't either, so I'm not going to claim that I do.
I can make guesses, but they're just guesses. That's it, that's all.
Your 1000% right, but its a sad development, The Vocal Minority gets the upper hand, you see it every time on lots of different occasions, sad but true.
You'd think if the last few years of the world taught us anything, it'd be to wait and look for facts and not make baseless assumptions, or believe those who do.
Yeah, you suck devs. Where's my server. Uh, give me some free stuff. A nice Klingon lady blasted me in to the future now i'm stuck reading a forum like it's 1995. Aaaargh I am very angry.
Am I part of the club now? ....Guys?
LOL
All I can say is...
Think we could use some humor right about now. Thanks man.
But again, I'm not saying it is or isn't management. I'm calling foul on someone who came in from an admittedly non-game developer claiming knowledge about something.
Fact of the matter is that is that the more complex something becomes easier it becomes for it to break or to for something to slip past testing. It's also a fact that given limited budget and timetable to game of this size will ever be 100% bug free and honestly I'd played games that had much worse bugs then STO has (Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness comes to mind, I couldn't get past the first level because the game bugged on me).
EDIT:Also before you accuse me of being a Cryptic plant, read the rant I posted yesterday, I'm fully capable of getting mad about not being able to play, I just don't assume it's some conspiracy targeted at me personally.
In some cases that dismissal transforms into "beat into submission until they 'see the light'".
Some people just take it WAY too far. As I said, its ok to express frustration, but there's a fine line between simply expressing and Hulk Smash Rage Mode. And these days... seems like its just default to Hulk Smash.
Hulk Smash Rage Mode(HSRM); outstanding, and so true. 😄
Anyone whose entire forum "personality" is based on either extreme end of the spectrum (always bashing the game or always defending every issue) has a problem.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm in that category too.
I was rather vocal when the old Season 7 Accolade Bug prevented one of my characters from getting the MACO set. But I wasn't malicious about it. More of a "keep it on the radar" type.
Escapism is my ticket to destress.
However their predilection for repeated ongoing bug waves and content drops that instantly break other aspects of their game suggests no quality control inhouse, general incompetence by the devs or that their servers and/or other equipment needs to be replaced? Bad management might be a factor, but none of this matters when they probably just ignore forum complaints.