Agents of Yesterday for Romulans and Klingons

I don't know about anyone else, but I would love some 23rd century sub-factions for the Romulans and Klingons.

Like some 23rd century variants of modern Warbirds and Klingon ships with maybe some 29th future variants. New tutorials with 23rd Century themed Romulans who are transported into the 25th century around the time of the Khitomer mission, 23rd century themed Klingons, Gorn, and Orions who are brought to the 25th century

I would just like some more flavoring for the Romulans and Klingons since the Federation now has two time traveling sub-factions.
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  • davefenestrator
    davefenestrator Member Posts: 9,790 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    The Time Travelin' Terries are from TV shows. Once TOS Klingons get their own TV show then they'll get their own sub-faction too.

    For now you can use a classic tunic uniform and add "23c" to your bio - https://sto.gamepedia.com/Classic_Tunic_Uniform

    More seriously: It takes a lot of work to create a new sub-faction, and since Cryptic is a business that effort needs to turn a profit. 70+ % of players are Federation and all TV shows and movies are from the Federation point of view so they get more faction-specific goodies. The Romulan, Klingon and Jem'Hadar characters combined are < 30% so it's harder to justify spending time on them.
  • ericcoldfire#9804
    ericcoldfire#9804 Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    The Time Travelin' Terries are from TV shows. Once TOS Klingons get their own TV show then they'll get their own sub-faction too.

    For now you can use a classic tunic uniform and add "23c" to your bio - https://sto.gamepedia.com/Classic_Tunic_Uniform

    More seriously: It takes a lot of work to create a new sub-faction, and since Cryptic is a business that effort needs to turn a profit. 70+ % of players are Federation and all TV shows and movies are from the Federation point of view so they get more faction-specific goodies. The Romulan, Klingon and Jem'Hadar characters combined are < 30% so it's harder to justify spending time on them.

    Well, the addition of new starter content for the Romulans and Klingons could draw more players to those factions, which would encourage more new content distribution.

    And if we go by the TRIBBLE and Jem'Hadar factions, it can't be that hard to make a new faction. TRIBBLE's tutorial is a beat for beat copy and paste of the standard Starfleet tutorial and without the novelty of starting at level 60 there's no real reason to play JH due to the lack of new story content.

    I'm just saying, the TOS-inspired sub-faction was so good and possibly the best addition to the Federation faction, it'd be nice to see that kinda love shared with the other main factions of the Romulans and Klingons.
  • davefenestrator
    davefenestrator Member Posts: 9,790 Arc User
    it can't be that hard to make a new faction.

    It's easy to say that if you're not doing the work.

    If it was very easy, we'd probably have more Federation sub-factions like Enterprise era and race-specific Cardassian, Vulcan, Andorian, Catian. For example you'd start out in the home system defense forces with some local flavor missions then transfer to Starfleet.

    Anyway, I'm not saying it's a bad idea just that it hasn't made business sense so far and I don't see anything happening soon to change that.
  • captkelly31#5645
    captkelly31#5645 Member Posts: 392 Arc User
    Now that that "season" is finished, should the missions it had be removed, or increased? The latter could be a way to re-use the 23c Drozana Station exterior prop.
  • ericcoldfire#9804
    ericcoldfire#9804 Member Posts: 41 Arc User

    If it was very easy, we'd probably have more Federation sub-factions like Enterprise era and race-specific Cardassian, Vulcan, Andorian, Catian. For example you'd start out in the home system defense forces with some local flavor missions then transfer to Starfleet.

    Anyway, I'm not saying it's a bad idea just that it hasn't made business sense so far and I don't see anything happening soon to change that.

    As much as I would like an Enterprise era faction or hell, just more Enterprise era story content, I'd really prefer more non-Federation content. And I say that only out of semi-bitterness due to the Discovery (better?) faction being added to the game and it's copy/paste nature not to mention how it's being held up as "better TOS".

    Bottomline, I'd just like more original content like the previous expansions (prior to Age of Discovery) or content themed around good Star Trek series, and while I think Voyager, Deep Space 9, and The Next Generation have been as fleshed out as they can be, it feels like a missed opportunity to add TOS themed content but only for Starfleet.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,541 Community Moderator
    Now that that "season" is finished...

    I'm not following you on this. What do you mean finished? If you're referring to the Year of Klingon... its not finished. We just got part 1.
    ...it feels like a missed opportunity to add TOS themed content but only for Starfleet.

    The problem is that there's not much in the way of canon material to work off of for TOS Klingons and Romulans. While they could do some world building, they would still have to have it go through CBS, and if they say No, then that's that. Don't forget they really only had... what? 2 episodes for Romulans? And three named Klingon Commanders total? And both sides really only had one ship each? 2 for Romulans if you include their D7s.
    ...it can't be that hard to make a new faction.

    Assets, UI, ships, weapons, NPCs, any new animations...
    And that's just off the top of my head, and not taking into consideration missions. We're talking a LOT of Dev Time. Pretty sure Tacofangs once said that it takes something like three weeks to design a BRIDGE alone. And that's NOT including full interiors like the TNG one.
    Its not difficult to think of a new faction. Implimenting one, on the other hand, is quite difficult.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • captkelly31#5645
    captkelly31#5645 Member Posts: 392 Arc User
    To clarify: AOY was "that", YOK is "this".
  • ericcoldfire#9804
    ericcoldfire#9804 Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    rattler2 wrote: »

    The problem is that there's not much in the way of canon material to work off of for TOS Klingons and Romulans. While they could do some world building, they would still have to have it go through CBS, and if they say No, then that's that. Don't forget they really only had... what? 2 episodes for Romulans? And three named Klingon Commanders total? And both sides really only had one ship each? 2 for Romulans if you include their D7s.

    Assets, UI, ships, weapons, NPCs, any new animations...
    And that's just off the top of my head, and not taking into consideration missions. We're talking a LOT of Dev Time. Pretty sure Tacofangs once said that it takes something like three weeks to design a BRIDGE alone. And that's NOT including full interiors like the TNG one.
    Its not difficult to think of a new faction. Implimenting one, on the other hand, is quite difficult.

    Know what, I did forget STO has to get approval from CBS, and given their current state, I can't imagine the current people in charge would want to approve more content non-NuTrek properties, even with NuTrek tanking as much as it is.

    Though I don't think canon would be much of a limitation for ships, after all, for TOS Starfleet in canon we only ever see Constitution class ships yet STO has a ton of variety for TOS themed Starfleet ships (Ranger, Perseus, Gemini, etc).

    And I assume that amount of time to work on new content isn't pandemic related. I get it that it takes time and effort for conceptualize and create new content, again, I'm mostly just bitter at the prospect that all future new content to STO will be Discovery-related.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,541 Community Moderator
    It won't be Discovery related. After we finish up with J'Ula, we're going after Admiral Leeta. While we may see Captain Tilly again, Leeta will be our antagonist. Hell... if Cryptic didn't get the green light for Discovery related stuff, we would have jumped right to fighting Leeta. IMO pushing that off made things a bit better because now we have another named Terran running around, unsure if she will side with Leeta or turn it into a three way conflict.

    Will we see things inspired by Discovery? Most likely.
    Will we see things inspired by Picard? Most likely.
    Will we see things inspired by Lower Decks? Most likely.
    Will we see things inspired by the upcoming Strange New Worlds? Most likely.
    Will we see things from previous shows? Most likely.

    All of Trek is available to them. We just need something appropriate to warrant bringing in those elements.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • phoenixc#0738
    phoenixc#0738 Member Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    rattler2 wrote: »

    The problem is that there's not much in the way of canon material to work off of for TOS Klingons and Romulans. While they could do some world building, they would still have to have it go through CBS, and if they say No, then that's that. Don't forget they really only had... what? 2 episodes for Romulans? And three named Klingon Commanders total? And both sides really only had one ship each? 2 for Romulans if you include their D7s.

    Assets, UI, ships, weapons, NPCs, any new animations...
    And that's just off the top of my head, and not taking into consideration missions. We're talking a LOT of Dev Time. Pretty sure Tacofangs once said that it takes something like three weeks to design a BRIDGE alone. And that's NOT including full interiors like the TNG one.
    Its not difficult to think of a new faction. Implimenting one, on the other hand, is quite difficult.

    Know what, I did forget STO has to get approval from CBS, and given their current state, I can't imagine the current people in charge would want to approve more content non-NuTrek properties, even with NuTrek tanking as much as it is.

    Though I don't think canon would be much of a limitation for ships, after all, for TOS Starfleet in canon we only ever see Constitution class ships yet STO has a ton of variety for TOS themed Starfleet ships (Ranger, Perseus, Gemini, etc).

    And I assume that amount of time to work on new content isn't pandemic related. I get it that it takes time and effort for conceptualize and create new content, again, I'm mostly just bitter at the prospect that all future new content to STO will be Discovery-related.

    CBS-Trek is not "tanking", it is just not as popular as it would have been had Moonves not managed to alienate so many of the old core fans with his plan to get free advertising via the fan strife, and had they not made the shows very long shallow generic action movies split into hour-log segments and dragged out over a half-season.

    DSC is actually a reasonably good show if you think of it as a generic like Dark Matter or Killjoys and ignore the traditional Star Trek references. And don't expect deep, some of the Short Treks were actually deeper than the main shows, and the CBS Trek is often beat out by some of the better cartoons, like Code Lyoko which was mostly simple on the episode level but was deep and intricately crafted on the implied arc level.
  • smokebailey
    smokebailey Member Posts: 4,430 Arc User

    DSC is actually a reasonably good show if you think of it as a generic like Dark Matter or Killjoys and ignore the traditional Star Trek references. And don't expect deep, some of the Short Treks were actually deeper than the main shows, and the CBS Trek is often beat out by some of the better cartoons, like Code Lyoko which was mostly simple on the episode level but was deep and intricately crafted on the implied arc level.

    Still, DSC REEKS. :p

    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • lianthelia
    lianthelia Member Posts: 7,688 Arc User
    I don't know about anyone else, but I would love some 23rd century sub-factions for the Romulans and Klingons.

    Like some 23rd century variants of modern Warbirds and Klingon ships with maybe some 29th future variants. New tutorials with 23rd Century themed Romulans who are transported into the 25th century around the time of the Khitomer mission, 23rd century themed Klingons, Gorn, and Orions who are brought to the 25th century

    I would just like some more flavoring for the Romulans and Klingons since the Federation now has two time traveling sub-factions.

    Right now I'd say the only possibility for a sub-faction for anyone would be Discovery Klingons because of the whole Klingon arc that is going on now.

    There is just so little for TOS Romulans and it has all been added except for the Romulan D7 (for obvious reasons) and same can be said about everything for TOS Klingons. There is just so little left to both.

    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • starshine#7408
    starshine#7408 Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    It would be really nice to have some time travelling storylines without an overarching temporal time war plot.
    See some cool ships and peoples and have some TOS, Disco and ENT era plotlines.
    im not sure about a whole new faction ala DISCO and TOS characters as you know, it means making a whole new character and given DISCO era doesnt even have andorians i dont know how good ENT era characters or TOS kling/rom would be.

    If they were going to add new factions it'd be better to be someone all new with a rom style pick an aliegance than past klings and like, Romulans didnt really change that much and Kling in ENT are just, TNG ones and TOS era are already doable by costumes.
    TOS>LDS>DSC>VOY>DS9>PRO>ENT>TNG>PIC

    Bring the Enterprise XCV-330 to STO
  • foppotee#4552
    foppotee#4552 Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    It would just be nice at this stage for Cryptic to re-release the TOS Temporal Agent Recruitment Event, even better if something released of its equal in offering for the other/all factions even if redundant in rewards!

    At this point I think it is 1 of those things Cryptic enjoys teasing us by saying "we're considering/working on it" but keeps kicking it further down the road-map.

    Who knows maybe the next recruitment event will include 5 Master Keys???
  • captkelly31#5645
    captkelly31#5645 Member Posts: 392 Arc User
    Does anybody want to comment on whether or not AOY, or Devidian FE, components can be reused elsewhere?
  • sthe91
    sthe91 Member Posts: 4,038 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    Does anybody want to comment on whether or not AOY or Devidian FE components can be reused elsewhere?

    I am not exactly commenting on that but it would be cool if in the Fed TOS storyline we were actually on Drozana Station when the Devidians attacked. Same with other STO time travel episodes involving the TOS period. Of course I wish that was back in the main storyline as well for the normal Fed instead of the Available tab which I still wish was either renamed to Available Missions or Side Missions. Still wish it would unlock at the same time as you can unlock Nimbus after completing Galaxy at Large since I was able to play it and my character did not need to be level 65 on my Discovery character.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • bltrrn
    bltrrn Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    I wouldn't bet on any more TOS subfactions...but I would bet on more Mo'Kai, DSC Terran, TOS Movie, etc., etc. stuff. Some ViL fluff after that, probably being Cardassian content. Possible Khenn/D5 Raptor with legendary packs, and the Gorn/Orion AoY ships with the rest of YoK. Maybe a bit more ENT and Kelvin content.

    As for any other "Year of", keep in mind that Donatra (of Borg) is still time surfing & will auspiciously end up in Republic space in a time of crisis, for some reason.
    R E M A I N

    Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.

    https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
  • captkelly31#5645
    captkelly31#5645 Member Posts: 392 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    The devs could do this in the form of the Romulan and Klingon (plus the latter's vassal species) perspective of TOS episodes.
  • bltrrn
    bltrrn Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    The devs could do this in the form of the Romulan and Klingon (plus the latter's vassal species) perspective of TOS episodes.

    With the AoY story arc, at least.
    R E M A I N

    Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.

    https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
  • lianthelia
    lianthelia Member Posts: 7,688 Arc User
    bltrrn wrote: »
    I wouldn't bet on any more TOS subfactions...but I would bet on more Mo'Kai, DSC Terran, TOS Movie, etc., etc. stuff. Some ViL fluff after that, probably being Cardassian content. Possible Khenn/D5 Raptor with legendary packs, and the Gorn/Orion AoY ships with the rest of YoK. Maybe a bit more ENT and Kelvin content.

    As for any other "Year of", keep in mind that Donatra (of Borg) is still time surfing & will auspiciously end up in Republic space in a time of crisis, for some reason.

    Honestly I don't see them going after much other than a Discovery Klingon fraction...

    They will never make a evil faction so Terrans are out...I don't think they will just make a sub-faction for every Starfleet era (besides the TMP transporter effect was just a blue version of the current KDF one) I doubt we'll ever see a Cardassian faction since they already gave Cardassians to Starfleet and KDF

    There just aren't many more options for fractions and I'm sure the Devs are happy not to make any more.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • bltrrn
    bltrrn Member Posts: 1,292 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    lianthelia wrote: »
    bltrrn wrote: »
    I wouldn't bet on any more TOS subfactions...but I would bet on more Mo'Kai, DSC Terran, TOS Movie, etc., etc. stuff. Some ViL fluff after that, probably being Cardassian content. Possible Khenn/D5 Raptor with legendary packs, and the Gorn/Orion AoY ships with the rest of YoK. Maybe a bit more ENT and Kelvin content.

    As for any other "Year of", keep in mind that Donatra (of Borg) is still time surfing & will auspiciously end up in Republic space in a time of crisis, for some reason.

    Honestly I don't see them going after much other than a Discovery Klingon fraction...

    They will never make a evil faction so Terrans are out...I don't think they will just make a sub-faction for every Starfleet era (besides the TMP transporter effect was just a blue version of the current KDF one) I doubt we'll ever see a Cardassian faction since they already gave Cardassians to Starfleet and KDF

    There just aren't many more options for fractions and I'm sure the Devs are happy not to make any more.

    Aye. At the most, a lot of aesthetic addition. Cardassian f(r)action *might* be eventually if the game lasts long enough to excuse a remobilization initiative or something similar & some sort of porting mechanic. I grasp at straws, I'm aware. :p

    I wouldn't mind a Terran Class C skin, however. I'm surprised it wasn't released with MoD.
    R E M A I N

    Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.

    https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
  • captainwells
    captainwells Member Posts: 718 Arc User
    Not being able to create a Temporal Agent at least for the Klingon faction was my only disappointment with that expansion.
  • lordmerc22
    lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    Well they could had made some episodes on TOS Roms and Klingons(and being able to create TOS Rom or Klingon) in the future but definitely they wont now since YOK direction, from the initial episodes is different and seems to pick from J'Ula storyline and involving the klingon leadership. It just doesnt fit their theme now
  • foxrockssocks
    foxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,481 Arc User
    You know, they could just let KDF and ROMs play through AOY as KDF and ROMs that underwent genetic/surgical changes to appear as human/vulcan/andorian/tellarite. Call it temporal intelligence gathering or something.

    They can add in some sort of temporal contact to anchor that end of the story better. Maybe have the contact be one of the people sent forward in time in AOY and they live it through that person's eyes, as part of a Khitomer alliance effort.

    While obviously it isn't the best solution, it would likely be the easier/cheaper solution.
  • davefenestrator
    davefenestrator Member Posts: 9,790 Arc User
    You know, they could just let KDF and ROMs play through AOY as KDF and ROMs that underwent genetic/surgical changes to appear as human/vulcan/andorian/tellarite. Call it temporal intelligence gathering or something.

    They can add in some sort of temporal contact to anchor that end of the story better. Maybe have the contact be one of the people sent forward in time in AOY and they live it through that person's eyes, as part of a Khitomer alliance effort.

    While obviously it isn't the best solution, it would likely be the easier/cheaper solution.

    That's a good idea, though I wonder how easy it would be if they have a bunch of bard-coded bits that require your character to be the "TOS Federation" faction.
  • foxrockssocks
    foxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,481 Arc User
    You know, they could just let KDF and ROMs play through AOY as KDF and ROMs that underwent genetic/surgical changes to appear as human/vulcan/andorian/tellarite. Call it temporal intelligence gathering or something.

    They can add in some sort of temporal contact to anchor that end of the story better. Maybe have the contact be one of the people sent forward in time in AOY and they live it through that person's eyes, as part of a Khitomer alliance effort.

    While obviously it isn't the best solution, it would likely be the easier/cheaper solution.

    That's a good idea, though I wonder how easy it would be if they have a bunch of bard-coded bits that require your character to be the "TOS Federation" faction.

    I imagine those problems aren't more than a copy>paste and/or find>replace job, but who knows.
  • phoenixc#0738
    phoenixc#0738 Member Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    You know, they could just let KDF and ROMs play through AOY as KDF and ROMs that underwent genetic/surgical changes to appear as human/vulcan/andorian/tellarite. Call it temporal intelligence gathering or something.

    They can add in some sort of temporal contact to anchor that end of the story better. Maybe have the contact be one of the people sent forward in time in AOY and they live it through that person's eyes, as part of a Khitomer alliance effort.

    While obviously it isn't the best solution, it would likely be the easier/cheaper solution.

    That's a good idea, though I wonder how easy it would be if they have a bunch of bard-coded bits that require your character to be the "TOS Federation" faction.

    I imagine those problems aren't more than a copy>paste and/or find>replace job, but who knows.

    You would be surprised at how kludgy and irregular things like that get in a large, long maintained program. That is one of the things that makes refactoring such a major effort for instance, you never know what odd bits of code may depend on a quirk of the code you are changing.
  • davefenestrator
    davefenestrator Member Posts: 9,790 Arc User
    You know, they could just let KDF and ROMs play through AOY as KDF and ROMs that underwent genetic/surgical changes to appear as human/vulcan/andorian/tellarite. Call it temporal intelligence gathering or something.

    They can add in some sort of temporal contact to anchor that end of the story better. Maybe have the contact be one of the people sent forward in time in AOY and they live it through that person's eyes, as part of a Khitomer alliance effort.

    While obviously it isn't the best solution, it would likely be the easier/cheaper solution.

    That's a good idea, though I wonder how easy it would be if they have a bunch of bard-coded bits that require your character to be the "TOS Federation" faction.

    I imagine those problems aren't more than a copy>paste and/or find>replace job, but who knows.

    You would be surprised at how kludgy and irregular things like that get in a large, long maintained program. That is one of the things that makes refactoring such a major effort for instance, you never know what odd bits of code may depend on a quirk of the code you are changing.

    That's what I've been dealing with for the last hour and a half - a change made in 2017 to a server application created in 2005 just caused a problem for the first time in a quirky edge case today. Gah.
  • foxrockssocks
    foxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,481 Arc User
    You know, they could just let KDF and ROMs play through AOY as KDF and ROMs that underwent genetic/surgical changes to appear as human/vulcan/andorian/tellarite. Call it temporal intelligence gathering or something.

    They can add in some sort of temporal contact to anchor that end of the story better. Maybe have the contact be one of the people sent forward in time in AOY and they live it through that person's eyes, as part of a Khitomer alliance effort.

    While obviously it isn't the best solution, it would likely be the easier/cheaper solution.

    That's a good idea, though I wonder how easy it would be if they have a bunch of bard-coded bits that require your character to be the "TOS Federation" faction.

    I imagine those problems aren't more than a copy>paste and/or find>replace job, but who knows.

    You would be surprised at how kludgy and irregular things like that get in a large, long maintained program. That is one of the things that makes refactoring such a major effort for instance, you never know what odd bits of code may depend on a quirk of the code you are changing.

    I get that, and I have no idea what is going on under the hood with STO. However, they have already done a copy/paste job with a couple Fed patrols to turn into a mission for the KDF.