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  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    westx211 wrote: »
    Discovery's going well beyond established events. The latest canon we know of is the 29th Century, with the USS Relativity. Easily enough time between that and the 33rd or 32nd for something major to take place.

    Ain't Daniels from the 31st century?

    That is correct, seemed like the federation existed in Daniel's version of the 31st century and they finally perfected time travel too, season 3 of Discovery takes place in the 32nd century, I'm more curious about what happened to the federation between the 31st century and the 32nd century, I like to know how the Federation fell apart in the span of a 100 years.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    especially for an empire depicted with that level of technology we see them with - and even AFTER losing the world heart, it still shouldn't have been an impediment​​
    Yeah it's a common sci-fi trope of having only one copy of critical data.... Data people would keep triply redundant backups of IRL. Or in the case of the Iconians one per Iconian. I suppose one could argue extreme hubris. Or maybe the bombardment blew up the backups...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    especially for an empire depicted with that level of technology we see them with - and even AFTER losing the world heart, it still shouldn't have been an impediment​​
    Yeah it's a common sci-fi trope of having only one copy of critical data.... Data people would keep triply redundant backups of IRL. Or in the case of the Iconians one per Iconian. I suppose one could argue extreme hubris. Or maybe the bombardment blew up the backups...

    Considering that we know for a fact only 12 Iconians made out alive from the bombardment, "bombardment blew up the backups" doesn't seem that odd (or maybe the World Heart was a backup but the only backup they could get to safety).
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,881 Arc User
    westx211 wrote: »
    Discovery's going well beyond established events. The latest canon we know of is the 29th Century, with the USS Relativity. Easily enough time between that and the 33rd or 32nd for something major to take place.

    Ain't Daniels from the 31st century?

    That is correct, seemed like the federation existed in Daniel's version of the 31st century and they finally perfected time travel too, season 3 of Discovery takes place in the 32nd century, I'm more curious about what happened to the federation between the 31st century and the 32nd century, I like to know how the Federation fell apart in the span of a 100 years.

    Maybe they got cracked like a whip with paradox out on that end of the timeline which caused civilization to implode on a wide scale or something. And logically, it cannot just be the Federation that collapsed, or the Klingons, Romulans, or some other border-neighbor would have simply annexed it. It would have to be something widespread like the plague that wiped out the Kalandans to cause that kind of Mad Max situation (assuming there is one, the trailers could be misleading).

  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    L'Miren also said that with the World Heart, they could rebuild.

    I don't think she was just referring to their planet. Given that their population was not at all or barely growing (like one new Iconian every few centuries) for a long time when the bombardment happened, she must have also been referring to the demographic component of recovering from that attack. Because she knew that had suddenly become a vulnerability, if it hadn't already been.

    She also only said that there were 12 of them left, nothing specific about them not being able to reproduce. Which would seem like too important a fact to leave out if you're taking your time to lament the loss of the others while you could be shot at any moment.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • kellmg96#5851 kellmg96 Member Posts: 773 Arc User
    Full species and/or space barbie.
    Full
    Kelpien
    Lukari
    Kentari
    Suliban
    Xindi-Primate

    Space Barbie
    Benthan
    Kazon
    Glory to you, and T6 Novas to your House, QAPLA'!
    bvpbRd1.jpg
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,628 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    As for season 3 of Discovery... I'm concerned.

    If they're going to destroy the Federation and make it such that only a few worlds remain, nothing of STO's storyline of protecting the Federation, building the Khitomer Alliance and possibly even the Galactic Union, will have mattered much in the end.

    You're assuming that STO is considered Canon. As far as I am aware, only one element was adopted, the Odyssey Class, as seen in the tie in comic as the USS Verity.

    strathkin wrote: »
    Discovery despite the claims of Picard, seems more in the Driving Seat, to write history for the Future, well at least the more Distant one; we came to know from Voyager, with 29th Temporal Alliance Fleet with Walker. So I'm really curious to know how they resolve that paradox, or if they are rewriting the future completely?

    Discovery's going well beyond established events. The latest canon we know of is the 29th Century, with the USS Relativity. Easily enough time between that and the 33rd or 32nd for something major to take place.

    You forget Daniels is from the 31st century...going from a massive power that patrols time to a complete lawless meltdown in just a century give or take is a little hard to believe to be honest

    But when has continuity or canon ever bothered them? lol
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,628 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    to a complete lawless meltdown
    Except this is completely inaccurate, as its already been confirmed that the Federation still exists in the time of Discovery S3, its just reduced in size. There has been nothing saying it a complete lawless hellhole.

    It was practically a lawless hellhole in Picard...or did you forget Seven was part of a group of vigilantes protecting people? Former Borg being kidnapped and harvested...including Starfleet officers. Neutral zone non-existent...massive Romulan fleet in Federation space...Starfleet security infiltrated by Romulans.

    The Federation had fallen apart...Discovery crew being chased by people with arm cannons...needs God Queen Commander Burnham to save them

    But I keep forgetting who I'm talking to...I'm surprised your avatar doesn't have Borg implants.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    to a complete lawless meltdown
    Except this is completely inaccurate, as its already been confirmed that the Federation still exists in the time of Discovery S3, its just reduced in size. There has been nothing saying it a complete lawless hellhole.

    Ehm, did you actually watch the trailer for season 3?

    Things don't look exactly rosy.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    Full species and/or space barbie.
    Full
    Kelpien
    Lukari
    Kentari
    Suliban
    Xindi-Primate

    Space Barbie
    Benthan
    Kazon

    We can already create Xindi-Primates since their uniforms, hairstyle and forehead details are available. I've also seen Lukari players walking around.

    So I'd prefer if they focussed on Kelpiens and the other do-able Xindi species.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • bltrrnbltrrn Member Posts: 1,290 Arc User
    An Iconian f(r)action would be interesting...but a lot of brainstorming would have to be done. Perhaps copies of the Lobi/Lockbox ships/gear with the "Midnight" pastel aesthetic, auto unlock of the Vest pieces. Unique species traits: Iconian Genetic Reengineering (decreased Antiproton resistance rating+Antiproton damage bonus), Dark Matter Manipulation (large bonus to control resistance)?
    non-Federation content is good content

    R E M A I N

    Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.

    https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png


    Byron: The Mirror Exile

    Gamet'Zan: The Honored Commando

    Kabur: The Leftover Son

    Raius: The Beacon of the Terrans

    Symakhos: The Redeemed Prince
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    bltrrn wrote: »
    An Iconian f(r)action would be interesting...but a lot of brainstorming would have to be done. Perhaps copies of the Lobi/Lockbox ships/gear with the "Midnight" pastel aesthetic, auto unlock of the Vest pieces. Unique species traits: Iconian Genetic Reengineering (decreased Antiproton resistance rating+Antiproton damage bonus), Dark Matter Manipulation (large bonus to control resistance)?

    Copies of the ships would be fine I think.

    If needed without the traits or perhaps a less potent version of those and the consoles, which are quite good in the case of the Vonph and Baltim raider I'd say.

    These ships don't seem very popular so I don't think it would cause much offense to players who bought them when they were expensive.

    And of course there's still the ancient design (think it was called the Apex?) that we could see in one of the episodes before it was updated. That, and their dreadnoughts were never released to players.

    So that already makes five ships. Maybe they could then also release a new T6 Dyson ship pack that players have been asking for, including Iconian variants. Or make one (or three) ships, based on elements of both the Dyson designs, faction-specific elements and some Iconian tech that can then be used by all factions like they did with the Carrier bundle and the Edison and associated ships.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • bltrrnbltrrn Member Posts: 1,290 Arc User
    bltrrn wrote: »
    An Iconian f(r)action would be interesting...but a lot of brainstorming would have to be done. Perhaps copies of the Lobi/Lockbox ships/gear with the "Midnight" pastel aesthetic, auto unlock of the Vest pieces. Unique species traits: Iconian Genetic Reengineering (decreased Antiproton resistance rating+Antiproton damage bonus), Dark Matter Manipulation (large bonus to control resistance)?

    Copies of the ships would be fine I think.

    If needed without the traits or perhaps a less potent version of those and the consoles, which are quite good in the case of the Vonph and Baltim raider I'd say.

    These ships don't seem very popular so I don't think it would cause much offense to players who bought them when they were expensive.

    And of course there's still the ancient design (think it was called the Apex?) that we could see in one of the episodes before it was updated. That, and their dreadnoughts were never released to players.

    So that already makes five ships. Maybe they could then also release a new T6 Dyson ship pack that players have been asking for, including Iconian variants. Or make one (or three) ships, based on elements of both the Dyson designs, faction-specific elements and some Iconian tech that can then be used by all factions like they did with the Carrier bundle and the Edison and associated ships.

    A good way to flesh out servitors and have a return to Romulan content
    non-Federation content is good content

    R E M A I N

    Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.

    https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png


    Byron: The Mirror Exile

    Gamet'Zan: The Honored Commando

    Kabur: The Leftover Son

    Raius: The Beacon of the Terrans

    Symakhos: The Redeemed Prince
  • bltrrnbltrrn Member Posts: 1,290 Arc User
    bltrrn wrote: »
    An Iconian f(r)action would be interesting...but a lot of brainstorming would have to be done. Perhaps copies of the Lobi/Lockbox ships/gear with the "Midnight" pastel aesthetic, auto unlock of the Vest pieces. Unique species traits: Iconian Genetic Reengineering (decreased Antiproton resistance rating+Antiproton damage bonus), Dark Matter Manipulation (large bonus to control resistance)?

    Copies of the ships would be fine I think.

    If needed without the traits or perhaps a less potent version of those and the consoles, which are quite good in the case of the Vonph and Baltim raider I'd say.

    These ships don't seem very popular so I don't think it would cause much offense to players who bought them when they were expensive.

    And of course there's still the ancient design (think it was called the Apex?) that we could see in one of the episodes before it was updated. That, and their dreadnoughts were never released to players.

    So that already makes five ships. Maybe they could then also release a new T6 Dyson ship pack that players have been asking for, including Iconian variants. Or make one (or three) ships, based on elements of both the Dyson designs, faction-specific elements and some Iconian tech that can then be used by all factions like they did with the Carrier bundle and the Edison and associated ships.

    A good way to flesh out the Solanae a bit more, and return to Romulan content, perhaps.
    non-Federation content is good content

    R E M A I N

    Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.

    https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png


    Byron: The Mirror Exile

    Gamet'Zan: The Honored Commando

    Kabur: The Leftover Son

    Raius: The Beacon of the Terrans

    Symakhos: The Redeemed Prince
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,352 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    westx211 wrote: »
    Discovery's going well beyond established events. The latest canon we know of is the 29th Century, with the USS Relativity. Easily enough time between that and the 33rd or 32nd for something major to take place.

    Ain't Daniels from the 31st century?

    That is correct, seemed like the federation existed in Daniel's version of the 31st century and they finally perfected time travel too, season 3 of Discovery takes place in the 32nd century, I'm more curious about what happened to the federation between the 31st century and the 32nd century, I like to know how the Federation fell apart in the span of a 100 years.

    Maybe they got cracked like a whip with paradox out on that end of the timeline which caused civilization to implode on a wide scale or something. And logically, it cannot just be the Federation that collapsed, or the Klingons, Romulans, or some other border-neighbor would have simply annexed it. It would have to be something widespread like the plague that wiped out the Kalandans to cause that kind of Mad Max situation (assuming there is one, the trailers could be misleading).

    It'll be interesting to see if it ties into what we saw in the Short Trek 'Calypso' and whether this links with the "V'draysh" (which Michael Chabon confirmed is a syncope of "Federation" ).
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,647 Arc User
    They never made playable Deferi, sadly. The aliengen copies are unable to actually represent the Deferi we see in the game, because some aliengen-parts are sex-restricted for some reason.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • wraithmeisterwraithmeister Member Posts: 369 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    The section 31 illusion device already lets your players use models for some un-playable species including Tholian, Hurq, Na'kul, etc.

    I can confirm that although these models are in-game, they can prevent you from interacting with some game mechanics. For example, models that cannot kneel are unable to loot Horga'hns in the Risa Horga'hn event because they cannot do the kneel animation. I'm sure there are other actions broken as well. They could be fixed, it may just be matter of coding to allow action to complete without animation, or adding the animations to game. Obviously a Na'kuhl character would be easier to animate than something like a Tholian. There are plenty of humanoid species in Trek that have not been made playable characters, including some species that are members of the federation.

    Other stuff is broken as well...for example, Hurq on a surfboard constantly shows you as being underwater even though surfboard is above water.

    I'm still waiting for playable Tribble race :)
    Fear a tribble (with no arms no less!) wielding a tommy-gun!
    Lack of limbs does not dis-allow combat -- as proof, watch any of the sequels to Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, where the tomatoes wreak havok despite having same number of limbs as tribbles!


  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    It was practically a lawless hellhole in Picard...or did you forget Seven was part of a group of vigilantes protecting people? Former Borg being kidnapped and harvested...including Starfleet officers. Neutral zone non-existent...massive Romulan fleet in Federation space...Starfleet security infiltrated by Romulans.
    Literally everything you stated happened in previous Trek series also.

    Cases in point
    • The Maquies Resistance in the Cardassian Delimitarized Zone
    • The constant infiltration of Starfleet by forces like the Bluegill
    • The Federation constantly having its borders breached by everything from V'ger and the Whoale Probe, to the Klingons and Dominion

    Everything that happen in Picard is typical day to day in Trek.
    Ehm, did you actually watch the trailer for season 3?

    Things don't look exactly rosy.
    I never said it was rosy. I said its exactly like its always been.

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/euphemism
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    Also:

    The Federation being under siege is quite different from it being basically dead. Only so that 'she' can save us all.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    Also:

    The Federation being under siege is quite different from it being basically dead. Only so that 'she' can save us all.
    No different then the Federation being useless only so "he" can save us all that we got with TOS, TNG, DS9, and ENT.

    Except those other series were never about one character.

    Garak was as much responsible for bringing the Romulans in as Sisko was. Odo and Kira were instrumental in making the Cardassians switch sides.

    Enterprise (NX-01) wouldn't even be flying anymore if it weren't for T'Pol and Dr. Phlox.

    To give just two examples of why your comment is nonsense.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • shrimphead2015shrimphead2015 Member Posts: 487 Arc User
    bltrrn wrote: »
    A good way to flesh out the Solanae a bit more, and return to Romulan content, perhaps.

    I do hope that in some way we could have more content as a side benefit with a larger assortment of playable species for use.


    “There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

    ― Hunter S. Thompson
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    Except those other series were never about one character.
    Nor is Discovery, unless you are saying Burnham built the spore drive the whole series revolves around?

    Guess who decided that the Tardigrade could no longer be used? And who was the first person to replace it?

    Moreover, the series doesn't revolve around the spore drive.

    That's like saying that TNG revolved around the warp core. It's an instrument to get them where they need to be for the story. And the story is almost always revolving around 'her'.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • shrimphead2015shrimphead2015 Member Posts: 487 Arc User
    The section 31 illusion device already lets your players use models for some un-playable species including Tholian, Hurq, Na'kul, etc.

    I can confirm that although these models are in-game, they can prevent you from interacting with some game mechanics. For example, models that cannot kneel are unable to loot Horga'hns in the Risa Horga'hn event because they cannot do the kneel animation. I'm sure there are other actions broken as well. They could be fixed, it may just be matter of coding to allow action to complete without animation, or adding the animations to game. Obviously a Na'kuhl character would be easier to animate than something like a Tholian. There are plenty of humanoid species in Trek that have not been made playable characters, including some species that are members of the federation.

    Other stuff is broken as well...for example, Hurq on a surfboard constantly shows you as being underwater even though surfboard is above water.

    I'm still waiting for playable Tribble race :)
    Fear a tribble (with no arms no less!) wielding a tommy-gun!
    Lack of limbs does not dis-allow combat -- as proof, watch any of the sequels to Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, where the tomatoes wreak havok despite having same number of limbs as tribbles!


    That is more in line to my thinking as well. I do think there are some other options that can be implemented in missions that could solve the animation problem with some species.

    “There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

    ― Hunter S. Thompson
  • bltrrnbltrrn Member Posts: 1,290 Arc User
    The section 31 illusion device already lets your players use models for some un-playable species including Tholian, Hurq, Na'kul, etc.

    I can confirm that although these models are in-game, they can prevent you from interacting with some game mechanics. For example, models that cannot kneel are unable to loot Horga'hns in the Risa Horga'hn event because they cannot do the kneel animation. I'm sure there are other actions broken as well. They could be fixed, it may just be matter of coding to allow action to complete without animation, or adding the animations to game. Obviously a Na'kuhl character would be easier to animate than something like a Tholian. There are plenty of humanoid species in Trek that have not been made playable characters, including some species that are members of the federation.

    Other stuff is broken as well...for example, Hurq on a surfboard constantly shows you as being underwater even though surfboard is above water.

    I'm still waiting for playable Tribble race :)
    Fear a tribble (with no arms no less!) wielding a tommy-gun!
    Lack of limbs does not dis-allow combat -- as proof, watch any of the sequels to Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, where the tomatoes wreak havok despite having same number of limbs as tribbles!


    That is more in line to my thinking as well. I do think there are some other options that can be implemented in missions that could solve the animation problem with some species.

    idk
    I'd like to see the Thompson reclaimable multiple times, as well as the other currently unique ground weapons.
    non-Federation content is good content

    R E M A I N

    Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.

    https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png


    Byron: The Mirror Exile

    Gamet'Zan: The Honored Commando

    Kabur: The Leftover Son

    Raius: The Beacon of the Terrans

    Symakhos: The Redeemed Prince
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