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darpink
Member Posts: 341 Arc User
A friend and I were talking about this subject and I decided to try and see what other players think.
I use the STO Combat Meter program to track my damage per second (DPS) and it is a great program.
But, you have to start and stop it, it's really only good for a few of the TFO's and it is a separate entity. I'm not saying this is bad, just saying.
What myself and my friend are wondering is why there isn't a combat log built into the game. I know you can click on the "Combat" tab on your chat box but it lists each weapon and it's damage separately for each player in the TFO. It's seems to me that it wouldn't take much work to create a "Combat Results" box that pops up at the end of any TFO that shows the total DPS, time in combat and the weapons and skills used by each player.
With it built into the game it would be so much better, imo.
Thoughts?
I use the STO Combat Meter program to track my damage per second (DPS) and it is a great program.
But, you have to start and stop it, it's really only good for a few of the TFO's and it is a separate entity. I'm not saying this is bad, just saying.
What myself and my friend are wondering is why there isn't a combat log built into the game. I know you can click on the "Combat" tab on your chat box but it lists each weapon and it's damage separately for each player in the TFO. It's seems to me that it wouldn't take much work to create a "Combat Results" box that pops up at the end of any TFO that shows the total DPS, time in combat and the weapons and skills used by each player.
With it built into the game it would be so much better, imo.
Thoughts?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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While it wouldn't be available everywhere in game, the idea has been floated by the Devs, and I THINK a testbed was made for Tribble server? Don't quote me on that last bit as I haven't been to Tribble in a long time.
First up, as it sits now the one on tribble only counts hull damage as part of your DPS. which will massively skew results. This means for example there would be no way to test the effectiveness of a drain ability that works on shields or drain builds of any kind, as it ignores shield damage completely. In fact until you do a point of hull damage it won't even track. Even then if it takes a bit before you hit the hull again, it can cause the parser to malfunction and give you bad results. The other issue we ran into was that if I am testing in there with a friend is that it gave one uniform result and never said who it belonged to. For all I know my friend was seeing my numbers or I was seeing his. It didn't have a way to differentiate who did what. It also didn't have a detailed damage breakdown if you want to test the effectiveness of certain powers, such as a particular console. There was also for a brief time a stacking difficulty bug with it as well. Meaning if my difficulty was set to elite normally, but I set the mobs to elite, then the 2 elites were stacking on top of each other, meaning I had elite-elite enemies. Yall can imagine how fun that was. The difficulty stacking has since been fixed which is why I'm talking about it, but yeah picture a borg probe with millions upon millions of health.
As is right now until the tribble map is updated unfortunately your best bet is the 3rd party parsers. Seriously though, if you want to see the feature get updated and such to where it would be something great, folks need to make it known they want such a feature so we don't have to rely on 3rd party programs.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
It would be pretty cool imo to have the built in combat tracker, especially if it pops up at the end of a TFO and shows what each player's DPS is and such. It's good to know the idea is being talked about in the circle of Devs.
I don't think that's such a good idea. That would kinda open the door to discrimination if you just happen to be in a group with some elitists who decide to go after you for not measuring up to their standards. Having a system you can go into on your own is a better option for testing builds, which is what they were going for. Showing how your build holds up. Not providing a measuring stick for others to use against you.
I don't mind having a Parser tell me how I did in Infected. What I would mind is someone looking at that, and then berating me for not measuring up, especially if I barely got a shot off because someone else was running a ship that just absolutely murdered everything in sight before I could even get there.
I think it was 234 they were going to use...
What I'm about to say won't be a popular statement, but there are times when lower damage folks have no business or right being in certain content until they've upped their game. When a person under-performs it effects the entire team and not just the one person. Let's suppose you have a queue that requires everyone pull 50k as a minimum to get past a DPS check at the start, similar to Battle of Korfez. If 4 of those guys are pulling the 50k minimum, and the 5th guy is only pulling 30k, then that queue is going to fail because that 5th guy is not yet ready for that queue and has no business being in there. Even if the other 4 people were pulling 60k each, which makes up for the 5th guy, that 5th guy still would not be ready as it's not fair to expect the other 4 people to carry that 5th guy. Eventually that 5th person will be ready, but that time is not now. When you join a queue, you are telling the game and people in there that you have a basic understanding of your build/class, your gear/setup is sufficient to let you survive the encounter, and you have a basic understanding of the queue or at least would be able to learn it. If those things aren't true, you are not yet ready for the group content. This is why several games have requirements and gear minimums before you're allowed in certain content, is so you have on paper not just the damage stats, but the stats to survive the encounter. It's not that they're trying to punish folks, it's that they're trying to make sure you can survive it and contribute to the team. WoW has the dungeon journal telling you where to get certain gear bits, as well as a basic overview of what each mob does in various runs. It also tells you enough to formulate your own plans to fight a boss. They also have a training ground/proving ground you can go in to practice.
Far as the as others seeing your damage, the moment you join a queue, you've already consented by default for others to be able to see your damage. In order to calculate their damage and their percentages, the combat log must also know your damage. In my book, the moment you join team content, you forfeit the ability to keep that stuff private as it effects the entire team.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
That's the map, but access is via the special console opposite the bank on the back wall of Drozana Station. Tool tip menu says 'Test Special Items'.
I have no problem with that at all. Honestly if you can dish out at least 10k, preferably somewhere between 10 and 15k, you're pretty much set for most content in game.
My problem is the attitudes that come with some of those elitists who attack without considering that the little guy may not have been able to even get a shot off, or barely could, and just treat them like garbage.
I got a pretty good build and can hold my own in most content, think I hit anywhere between 20 and 25k on average on my main, but the second I see a Vaadwaur Juggernaut or see people melting things in Infected, I go into panic mode because I don't want to get AFK'd or the off chance they're going to attack me for not measuring up despite the fact they're the ones melting everything before I can get there.
I guess its more the social aspects than mechanics. I don't know. Like I said I don't mind seeing how I do every once in a while, and admittedly I've been less active lately due to event fatigue so I haven't really done any Infected PUG runs lately, but that concern is always at the back of my mind when I do go into an Infected run.
Also, if "elitsts" are running any TFO easier than Elite or doing random teaming then they get what they get and shouldn't whine about other player's weakness.
Plus, it's pretty easy to ignore those players that just want to TRIBBLE and moan, trust me, my ignore list is much longer than my friends list.
Or am I missing something? I mean after CCA I usually get a ranking plus reward...
This should be expanded to all TFOs, only listing YOUR numbers to yourself.
He and I were bantering about certain groups that exist in every game that have an elitist mindset that if you're not on their level of damage, healing, etc. that you're somehow a noob and terrible at the game. In other words the type that like to behave as though they're the king of the game and they want you to know it. His concern was that a damage parser would potentially give certain seedier elements in the game ammo to DPS shame people who aren't at their level or aren't perceived to be at their level. In other words, the type of person that likes to brag because that can pull 20 quadrillion DPS and everyone that's below them on the damage meters is a noob. I raised the point that those folks will always exist with or without a damage parser and they're not a valid reason to hold such a parsing tool back. The point I was making is that the issue isn't the parser but the social aspect of it that some abuse.
As for difficulty, I'm sitting good at about 100k-115k right now with my current build if I get the perfect run as a tank. Although I have the ability to go higher I choose not to as that's not how I enjoy playing. Now with that said, sometimes I just want a little mindless destruction and don't always want to play on elite. Also not all queues have elite versions, so it's either normal/advanced or bust. Also like I explained above, there is a point where a certain amount of damage is required. With STO that threshold is extremely forgiving on advanced level content. As long as one guy isn't doing 90% of the damage and objectives being failed, most of the time you won't have an issue. By the time you get to advanced content it's assumed you have at least a functional cohesive build, even if you don't have all the rep gear, lobi/box gear, or similar yet. There are times when the complaints of insufficient damage are legitimate. If you're in a queue that requires folks to all be doing 50k at a minimum and you're only doing 25k, then the complaint is legitimate. However unless something like that is going on, or folks are running around like headless chickens, it's just folks trying to show off.
In order to know what you are doing damage wise, it has to know what your team is doing in order to calculate percentages. There is no way around that. Also assuming such a thing were implemented there's nothing to stop them from pulling the combat log that records everything, and then using an outside 3rd party parser to still pull your damage that way. Again see above there are times when knowing your team's output is valid.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
But a combat log reader can tell you so much more than just your final DPS. It can show you which parts of your build are working and which aren't. I found I was getting roughly 50% critical hits and re-engineered all my weapons from Dmg to CrtD which made a huge improvement. Kemocite was doing nothing for me so I ditched it. The DPS score tells you none of this.
But I respawn
I am duranium!
In Neverwinter, they do include detailed damage & healing among others at the end of each TFO; while STO only has a few Space TFO's that include Placements, it excludes the damage & healing. Something I wish they'd expand or change myself!
Crystalline Catastrophe, and Romulan Minefield, have been aware of the damage & healing (as someone correctly identified below) done in those TFO's, as it uses that to derive a 1st, 2nd or 3rd Placement. While it also only advises you of your Placement results, this avoids the elitist attitudes, some above have spoken of above. It's also nice to earn Rare, or Very Rare Gear or Salvage, without the Loot Rolls!
If only they just included Total Damage &/or Healing with it, as Placements could be extended to more TFO's; along with more ground, as it keeps individual results private. Players know they've done very well placing first!
Not sure if that's the system, which is used for Placements, at least in two Space TFO's above; regardless it be excellent to see it improved. I too dislike using Combat Log Reader, and be far nicer to get a reliable value, so players can evaluate how their doing, in a few more TFOs...
Hopefully some DEV may consider revising, and/or improving some of the suggestions above. @ambassadorkael#6946
I use CLR sometimes when I am tuning a build, and just recently I did some runs with someone else who used a different parser (not sure of the name, its web based instead of on-machine) and it turned out that while the proportions were about the same the numbers themselves were quite different (the web one's figures were much higher than the CLR ones). When people say "20K" or "50K" that apparently means different things depending on the parser they use.
I can see Rattler's point about getting afk penalties because there is little or nothing left by the time they get there, I parsed a run not too long ago with the Fek'iri carrier where except for a random shot or two from the various ship's weapons the only damage I did was via the pets because by the time I got the big slow blimp turned around and got to each knot of action there was nothing left but wreckage for the most part. That carrier is sort of an extreme case (and that particular run was a bit of outlier), if your fighters chase the action the fire rings keep triggering and knock the already slow and ungainly ship out of high-impulse, but it still illustrates the point.
I have not run into many dps trolls in STO, in the last three years I think I have seen people in the game spewing bile in the team chat like that only two or three times, which is far lower than Tera or Defiance for instance, but then I haven't done elite here so it may be different at that level.
Now, if you still had the trinity style, where you needed to know how to mitigate you threat level so that you don't pull threat off the tank either via healing or dps, then, yes, it would be needed. When I was playing WoW, this is the only reason I had a dps/threat/healing meter. So that I could mitigate my threat level.
We don't have that here. So such a meter is useless from the get go. It's just a means for people to stroke their e-peen.
Not quite. For just a few examples:
For people who like to tinker, parsers are very handy to see where build problems are, for when something should work well but is not performing as expected and the player simply does not have the currency to keep swapping things in and out on guesses. They are also handy for learning how the game works, something that is not always intuitive with this game.
Getting destroyed in a scenario can be a very annoying emersion breaker, so people who do RP or even just lite-RP can use one to see why it is happening too much and come up with ways to fix it without going outside the concept, the systems end of space Barbie.
Like anything in real life there are potentially as many reasons to do or use something as there are people, simplistic assumptions as to why people do what they do or what they want just do not match reality.