V'Ger, I gotta ask

navar · July 2020

So been gone for a while, you'll have to forgive me for the many questions sure to come in the next couple of weeks, but I gotta ask....has there been any missions with V'ger? Maybe an epic battle in the Mutara Nebula? Throw me a bone here, Trekies!

foppotee · July 2020

I don't think there's been any missions nor any pixel representing of V'ger in-game that I'm aware of but I know there are some neat models of the ST V'ger out there.

I think it would be potentially amazing if Cryptic would do a story arc around a return of ST's V'ger or something, but I've mostly been impressed with Cryptic's originally created storys.

Growing up I was always fascinated by that whale probe too for some reason lol

Unknown · July 2020

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rattler2 · July 2020

Not V'Ger itself, however it is implied that the Unimatrix ships, the Borg cigars with the big plasma bolts, show a connection between V'Ger and the Borg.

leemwatson · July 2020

Depending on which version of ST:TMP you watch, you can see an obvious relationship between V'Ger and the in-game Unimatrix ship. You can see the model itself if you have a version with the extras.

jonsills · July 2020

V'ger has gone beyond this universe. Do you keep falling asleep before the end of that movie too?

rjewkes · July 2020

But i think after meeting kirk and gang v'ger goes off exploring more and finds a planet full of cyborgs and merges with one creating the first Borg queen.

Unknown · July 2020

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vetteguy904 · July 2020

it can be assumed that V'ger was a result of contact with the borg, but very unlikely. Spock said Voyager encountered a planet of sentient machines and they discovered the programming.. learn all that is learnable and return it to earth. They gave Voyager the ability to do that. That is not the MO of the borg. they would have just disposed of the probe as inferior tech, and maybe dispatched a ship to Earth to assimilate the planet. that said, finding the sentient machine planet would be very interesting. all we know it that the probe "must have emerged on the far side of the galaxy" maybe it's beyond Dominion space in the gamma quadrant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qKOAz7OCOA

legendarylycan · July 2020

i might've thought the planet of 'sentient' (supposed to be sapient, but so many people TRIBBLE that up even today) machines was a cybertron easter egg - except TMP came out several years before transformers

rattler2 · July 2020

somtaawkhar wrote: »

The first Borg Queen existed for 1,000+ years before V'ger.

Supposedly the Vaadwaur were aware of the Borg in their time, but the Borg were only a minor annoyance back then. Which implies that the Borg were not as powerful.

memory alpha wrote:

The Vaadwaur encountered the Borg during their travels, who at the time had assimilated only a handful of star systems.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Vaadwaur

The idea that the Borg are so much older than even the Vaadwaur kinda loses some weight.

vetteguy904 wrote: »

it can be assumed that V'ger was a result of contact with the borg, but very unlikely. Spock said Voyager encountered a planet of sentient machines and they discovered the programming.. learn all that is learnable and return it to earth. They gave Voyager the ability to do that. That is not the MO of the borg. they would have just disposed of the probe as inferior tech, and maybe dispatched a ship to Earth to assimilate the planet. that said, finding the sentient machine planet would be very interesting. all we know it that the probe "must have emerged on the far side of the galaxy" maybe it's beyond Dominion space in the gamma quadrant

It depends on the source material. If we consider Star Trek Legacy, which borrows some inspiration from the Shatner novels, the sentient machines tried to make sense of the primitive programming in Voyager 6.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anMOQ3vTy9k
The Borg are a result of V'Ger trying to learn all that is learnable.

navar · July 2020

jonsills wrote: »

V'ger has gone beyond this universe. Do you keep falling asleep before the end of that movie too?

Hahaha, point taken, but I have always hoped V'ger would get bored and make a U-turn.

navar · July 2020

vetteguy904 wrote: »

it can be assumed that V'ger was a result of contact with the borg, but very unlikely. Spock said Voyager encountered a planet of sentient machines and they discovered the programming.. learn all that is learnable and return it to earth. They gave Voyager the ability to do that. That is not the MO of the borg. they would have just disposed of the probe as inferior tech, and maybe dispatched a ship to Earth to assimilate the planet. that said, finding the sentient machine planet would be very interesting. all we know it that the probe "must have emerged on the far side of the galaxy" maybe it's beyond Dominion space in the gamma quadrant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qKOAz7OCOA

Oooooo! I like this idea!

navar · July 2020

rattler2 wrote: »

somtaawkhar wrote: »

The first Borg Queen existed for 1,000+ years before V'ger.

Supposedly the Vaadwaur were aware of the Borg in their time, but the Borg were only a minor annoyance back then. Which implies that the Borg were not as powerful.

memory alpha wrote:

The Vaadwaur encountered the Borg during their travels, who at the time had assimilated only a handful of star systems.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Vaadwaur

The idea that the Borg are so much older than even the Vaadwaur kinda loses some weight.

vetteguy904 wrote: »

it can be assumed that V'ger was a result of contact with the borg, but very unlikely. Spock said Voyager encountered a planet of sentient machines and they discovered the programming.. learn all that is learnable and return it to earth. They gave Voyager the ability to do that. That is not the MO of the borg. they would have just disposed of the probe as inferior tech, and maybe dispatched a ship to Earth to assimilate the planet. that said, finding the sentient machine planet would be very interesting. all we know it that the probe "must have emerged on the far side of the galaxy" maybe it's beyond Dominion space in the gamma quadrant

It depends on the source material. If we consider Star Trek Legacy, which borrows some inspiration from the Shatner novels, the sentient machines tried to make sense of the primitive programming in Voyager 6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anMOQ3vTy9k
The Borg are a result of V'Ger trying to learn all that is learnable.

I actually remember this! Wow, it has been a very long time since I have played that game. Is there an actual canon to any of that? I always assumed that it was just a story written by the game's development team. I never considered its authenticity. Since I never read any of the books other than one, it never occurred to me that William Shatner touched on this.

Unknown · July 2020

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rattler2 · July 2020

There is no canon origin story for the Borg. But a lot of fan theories that have been poked by various media.

crypticarmsman · July 2020

somtaawkhar wrote: »

rjewkes wrote: »

But i think after meeting kirk and gang v'ger goes off exploring more and finds a planet full of cyborgs and merges with one creating the first Borg queen.

The first Borg Queen existed for 1,000+ years before V'ger.

Unless the Black Hole ALSO threw Voyager VI in to the past...
(I HATE Temporal mechanics...)

legendarylycan · July 2020

i seriously hope not...because that would mean humanity created the borg, even if it was an accident and they were completely unaware of it...bad enough they created Control, who at least managed to be stopped before it could cause galaxy-wide devastation - at least in one timeline

navar · July 2020

shadowfang240 wrote: »

i seriously hope not...because that would mean humanity created the borg, even if it was an accident and they were completely unaware of it...bad enough they created Control, who at least managed to be stopped before it could cause galaxy-wide devastation - at least in one timeline

What if...when V'ger was lost in the black hole, that V'ger actually went so far back in time that V'ger actually created humans? Now taht would be a time paradox! Although I do admit that it wouldn't make a very good story.

smokebailey · July 2020

I prefer V'ger and Borg stay separate.

navar · July 2020

smokebailey wrote: »

I prefer V'ger and Borg stay separate.

I agree completely. Just having fun with the idea is all.

grendelthewise · July 2020

smokebailey wrote: »

I prefer V'ger and Borg stay separate.

Couldn't have said it better

ltminns · July 2020

'Dead Stop'.

smokebailey · July 2020

reyan01 wrote: »

smokebailey wrote: »

I prefer V'ger and Borg stay separate.

This.

Fortunately there are quite a few counter-arguments to the silly V'ger-Borg theory.

Whenever any two Trek species have any single trait in common, there are fans who try to link them to each other even if there are far more differences than similarities. Like the way people like to think Trelane is a Q even though he was far less powerful and needed a machine to do most of his tricks (and frankly, aside from moving Gothos around, he didn't do a single thing that couldn't be achieved with a holodeck and a transporter).

V'Ger and the Borg have absolutely nothing in common aside from having a connection to technology. Linking them makes as much sense as assuming that, say, the asteroid field in "The Pegasus" was created by the Horta because they're both made of minerals. It's a bizarre, random connection to draw, let alone to insist on.

Ad V'ger was not hostile, nor was it assimilating anything.

I think the Borg ENCOUNTERED V'ger, yes, but were no match for it. V'ger kicked their butts, and the Borg, seeing this amazing technology, mimicked as much as they could of it, hence the unimatrix ships we see.

legendarylycan · July 2020

on the other paw, mysteries are designed to be solved...but at the same time, all the mysteries of the universe should not be solved in the span of a few hundred years

ltminns · July 2020

Greek Fire

smokebailey · July 2020

reyan01 wrote: »

To be honest, whilst some good (and NOT so good) books etc have been written about the Borg's origin (all non-canon), I firmly believe that they should leave both the origin of the Borg AND V'Ger well enough alone.

Some things are actually more enjoyable when there is an element of mystery surrounding them.

Like the mysterious planet of living machines.

jonsills · July 2020

smokebailey wrote: »

reyan01 wrote: »

smokebailey wrote: »

I prefer V'ger and Borg stay separate.

This.

Fortunately there are quite a few counter-arguments to the silly V'ger-Borg theory.

Whenever any two Trek species have any single trait in common, there are fans who try to link them to each other even if there are far more differences than similarities. Like the way people like to think Trelane is a Q even though he was far less powerful and needed a machine to do most of his tricks (and frankly, aside from moving Gothos around, he didn't do a single thing that couldn't be achieved with a holodeck and a transporter).

V'Ger and the Borg have absolutely nothing in common aside from having a connection to technology. Linking them makes as much sense as assuming that, say, the asteroid field in "The Pegasus" was created by the Horta because they're both made of minerals. It's a bizarre, random connection to draw, let alone to insist on.

Ad V'ger was not hostile, nor was it assimilating anything.

I think the Borg ENCOUNTERED V'ger, yes, but were no match for it. V'ger kicked their butts, and the Borg, seeing this amazing technology, mimicked as much as they could of it, hence the unimatrix ships we see.

You heard it here first, folks, the asteroid field in "The Pegasus" (and, by extension, every other asteroid field in Trek!) was created by the Horta! (Bet you didn't even know they were a spacefaring species. Heck, they'd probably be surprised to learn that.)

V'ger didn't precisely assimilate anything, no. It did pattern three K'tingas and Lt. Ilia for data storage...

navar · July 2020

smokebailey wrote: »

reyan01 wrote: »

To be honest, whilst some good (and NOT so good) books etc have been written about the Borg's origin (all non-canon), I firmly believe that they should leave both the origin of the Borg AND V'Ger well enough alone.

Some things are actually more enjoyable when there is an element of mystery surrounding them.

Like the mysterious planet of living machines.

Crossover story with Cybertron.

crypticarmsman · July 2020

therealwraiven wrote: »

smokebailey wrote: »

reyan01 wrote: »

To be honest, whilst some good (and NOT so good) books etc have been written about the Borg's origin (all non-canon), I firmly believe that they should leave both the origin of the Borg AND V'Ger well enough alone.

Some things are actually more enjoyable when there is an element of mystery surrounding them.

Like the mysterious planet of living machines.

Crossover story with Cybertron.

So, Unicron is V'Ger's uncle then?

smokebailey · July 2020

therealwraiven wrote: »

smokebailey wrote: »

reyan01 wrote: »

To be honest, whilst some good (and NOT so good) books etc have been written about the Borg's origin (all non-canon), I firmly believe that they should leave both the origin of the Borg AND V'Ger well enough alone.

Some things are actually more enjoyable when there is an element of mystery surrounding them.

Like the mysterious planet of living machines.

Crossover story with Cybertron.

Ummmm....no.

V'Ger, I gotta ask

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