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Idea: Single Cannon changes
hachaliah
Member Posts: 5 Arc User
Currently Single cannons have a 180 degree firing arc but are limited to forward weapons slots.
But what if single cannons could have that restriction removed so they can be slotted in fore and rear weapons slots?
Being allowed to broadside with these would change the experience you have with these weapons, and single cannons might find more uses if they are allowed to be used in fore and rear weapons slots.
But what if single cannons could have that restriction removed so they can be slotted in fore and rear weapons slots?
Being allowed to broadside with these would change the experience you have with these weapons, and single cannons might find more uses if they are allowed to be used in fore and rear weapons slots.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Beams work because they have 250 degree arc, allowing you to be "not quite perfect" all the time.
If you want this, you'll need more than 180 degrees for the arc. Unlikely to happen.
Right now, single cannons are useless and forgotten, this would at least give them a function.
Aft Cannons with CSV would still be useful for 'tow' builds though - especially considering the extra toys we have to support that playstyle now.
This is a curious comment and I would be interested to see anything that backs this up. Do you frequently run Elite Content using Single Cannons? If so.. which ones? I would be interested to see the numbers on this because I do not believe your assessment of Elite Content is entirely accurate. I will elaborate..
Single Cannons right now currently produce the lowest DPS of any possible build. Why is this? They look great on paper right? Yes.. they do.
Not terribly long ago, probably about 2 years ago, I set out to champion the cause of Single Cannons. I did this because I very much believed the statement you just made would be overwhelmingly true. After all, you can complete Elites in Beam Boats right? And Single Cannons do more damage then beams.. seemed like a no-brainer. But when I did my testing and collected parses, I quickly proved myself very wrong.
In summary, here is why my tests proved me wrong. Single Cannons have the same equip restrictions as Dual Cannons and Dual Heavy Cannons. This means you're forced to use Turrets in your aft section. This is where my single cannon builds began to compare miserably to my Beam FAW builds. On my Fire At Will builds, I could turn sideways and get 8 beams on target at once.. the best I could do in a Single Cannon build was 4 or 5 singles with a couple turrets. The low output of Turrets caused the Single Cannon builds on average to fall significantly behind the Beam Builds. This put the same build restrictions on the Single Cannon builds that I already had on my Dual Cannon builds which parsed significantly higher then either Beams or Single Cannons. The biggest advantage of the Singles was the 180 degree arc, but surprisingly, I found that did little for me since I already was not having any trouble keeping foes in my front arc at 90' (Dual Cannon arc is 45' but under Scatter Volley it's 90' and you can keep approx 98% uptime on Scatter Volley with Withering Barrage.)
If you look at the current state of Elites, they actually do require significant DPS and in the current state even completing them in Beam Boats can be difficult for Captains that aren't very highly skilled. The content today is designed to force you to really min/max and in these scenarios, Single Cannons would not cut it. Take even a simple map like ISE for example, the opening volley is nothing but a hard DPS Check. If you can't beat that opening force in the time given, the map ends to keep you from wasting your time attempting the rest of the content. Even in this situation, most teams running Elites will take this phase as a tight group so they can share their buffs to help push that opening DPS up. While Beams are acceptable, most people run this content with Dual Cannons/Dual Heavy Cannons. I can honestly say I have never once seen anyone attempt ISE or especially something like HSE with Single Cannons. Could it be done? Probably.. there are people that can do these maps in T4 ships (I'm not one of them) so I imagine someone could do it, but outside of your top tier players, running Elites with Single Cannon builds would be inadvisable. While your team overall may succeed, if you were running a build like this, you would be carried by the other 4 members of your team.
Again, I can't find any uploaded parses for you in any Elite Maps, but not everyone uploads so that's not unusual. I would be very curious to know what Elites you have done using Single Cannon builds, because in the current meta that would actually be quite a challenge. If you changed the word 'Elite' in your post to 'Advanced' then yes.. you would obviously be very correct. Single Cannons and even Turret Boats are more then fine for Advanced, but current Elites would be quite a challenge.
The problem Single Cannons currently have is that they come with the same restrictions as Dual Cannon builds with far less payoff. Giving them the ability to 'broadside' would set them apart and put them more on par with full single beam builds that can currently compensate for lower per weapon damage by broadsiding to maximize output. While Single Cannons are currently Viable for Normal and Advanced Content, their problem is they're not desirable. The proposed change would be more to enhance their desirability not necessarily their viability.
If someone wanted to improve single cannons, instead of tweaking the firing arc, I would suggest giving them something inbuilt like an accuracy bonus (10%-20%) compared to DC's or maybe a Crit Chance bonus (2%) compared to the Crit Damage bonus (10%) for dual heavy cannons.
This is a great point, and absolutely valid. The problem was (for me anyway) on ships that could not slot Dual Cannons, I usually did significantly more damage going all single beams and broadsiding then I did with Single Cannons and Turrets. I'll have to see if I can dig up my old parses, it's been a while, but I was surprised in practical use how much worse Single Cannons actually were. On paper they look like they shouldn't be that bad, but in practical use, I found them to be viable for Normal and Advanced but hardly desirable.
For me personally at least, I was always better off either running Dual Cannons or all Single Beams. I didn't test them against Dual Beam Banks with Omni's.. they might beat that combo.. I am not sure. I do think that Single Cannons need help, a built in accuracy bonus isn't a bad idea, especially if it was significant enough to make up some of the accuracy penalty between Scatter Volley II and Scatter Volley III.
Not a bad idea at all.
Some of my favorite ships have a single cannon/turret build.
It works remarkably well on a MW build with a Bio Molecular torpedo as backup.. CRF, HY and mixed armaments
Then again, i only play elite patrols and stay away from premade teams.
needless to say, if ba'ul AP comes in single cannons, those particular cannons at least will blow any others out of the water - of course, turrets will still beat the single cannons since they fire more shots, but that's always been true of per-shot things when dealing with turrets and SCs
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The current Fed-Rom I'm playing is in the Legendary T'Liss and is running a Single Plasma Cannon build. Four and the Romulan Torpedo forward, Plasma Turret, KCB, and Slamshot rear. I find it easier to keep on target with these Singles as I am not spot on at piloting my ships. I used it on an Amarie and a Miradorn (almost). Constant Crits and Flanks gives me plenty of damage even in Advanced.
I do have Characters with DHC, Beam Array, or Torpedo Builds.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
"This is a curious comment and I would be interested to see anything that backs this up. Do you frequently run Elite Content using Single Cannons? If so.. which ones?"
I do it all the time. I'm using covert phaser single cannons on a Maquis raider. ISE, HSE, Starbase One elite, whatever I can get into. Not sure why you think it's not possible. Maybe the way you play the game it isn't? At the speeds I've been able to achieve, single cannons are viable due to the wider firing arc.
"I can honestly say I have never once seen anyone attempt ISE or especially something like HSE with Single Cannons."
Hyperbole much? Never once?
It can be done if you're an elite pilot. Should never be attempted by noobs.
I said I had never seen it, didn't say it had never been done.
I also didn't say it wasn't possible, it's just not something most people do.
If you claim you have.. fine. I wouldn't dare challenge the word of such an obvious pro player!
I absolutely believe you could run Elites with Single Cannons. I believe I could as well, I think I was just unclear in my original statement so I will attempt to clarify.
There is a difference between 'could' and 'should,' and there are a lot of factors to consider. While running Elites with Single Cannons certainly can be done, you're still going to contribute less to your overall team then you would with more optimal weapons. It doesn't mean you can't complete the content, the question is simply how much more you're contributing. In my opinion, I don't see a point in doing the content with Single Cannons since other weapon choices all contribute more. In the case of Dual Cannons, you would contribute significantly more.
I'm not an Elite Player, and I know that. While I could complete Elites with Single Cannons, I personally would not put out great numbers compared to what I get with other weapon choices. There are players that could probably use Single Cannons and out DPS me with Duals, and that's totally fine. For most players though, Single Cannons are in a place where right now it just doesn't make sense to use them unless you just really want to.
When I talk about 'Elites' I mean Elite queues like ISE, HSE, etc. I am not talking about Elite Patrols that can be done with anything, they just take slightly longer.
In my case, if I were running maps like HSE with Single Cannons, I would be depending on my team to make up for the difference that I lost. I would still 'complete' the map, so I could say I did it.. but people that have run Elites with me know that my focus is always on how much I can help the overall team. I rarely lead my team in DPS, I just honestly run with people that are better then me. As it is now, I just don't personally see a place for Single Cannons the way they are currently designed. This is why I favor the OP's idea, or at least some variation of it. Single Cannons are viable, no one is arguing that, the problem is they're not desirable. That is what I would like to see fixed, I would like to see them given a place as they currently have none outside of 'I run them because I want to.'
I hope that clarifies my view a little more.
Of course, I prefer science captains so a lot of the damage I do is from dirty tricks instead of guns.
the set clickie does not discriminate weapon type
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I usually mix because certain science powers need beams to conduct the effect to the target.