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[HOUSE DIVIDED] "The Centre Cannot Hold" and "Khitomer Discord" Feedback and Discussion

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  • edited July 2020
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  • snowwolf#0563 snowwolf Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    So this is like.. Divide et Impera version 2.0, lol.

    That being said, it was very nice having some new content.. And I found myself actually playing Star Trek Online for a few hours instead of just idling and rush-doing the Endeavours.. So that was nice, I'm curious as to how it turns out though.
    Post edited by snowwolf#0563 on
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    So this is like.. Divide et Impera version 2.0, lol.
    Nah the problem with Divide et. Impera was that it was written to be part one of 2-4 missions, but the follow up where you would have hunted down the imposter never got made. It also had a few hints in the mission brief that it's a setup and that Zelle's intel is bad. One: you're going to the Vendor system..... yes, THAT Vendor: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Vendorian TWO: Zelle makes a point of telling you to shoot to kill at the beginning. She doesn't want you to be able to get intel from the Romulans.

    The implication seems to be that the Romulans are studying anti-shapeshifter techniques using their Vendorian allies as willing test subjects. Undine!Zelle wants you to go there and stop their research. This is borne out by how Selok(the base commander) accuses the PLAYER of being an Undine. Selok thought it was more likely that Undine would attack her facility than Starfleet.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • myobxinfinitymyobxinfinity Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    I have to be honest, I kinda hate the new missions. The environment art was phenomenal, and I loved the VAs and setpieces, but story wise the whole thing is one gigantic pile of garbage. There's constantly some new McGuffin pulled out of left field the second we come close to winning, and the player is forced into a position of such powerlessness that they can't even open a door.

    Starting off, we find everyone in the great hall acting a fool. J'Ula cries and whines about her honor and how J'mpok is a coward over the Hur'q crisis, even though J'Ula has constantly been running away from every fight she starts. She talks about how Martok is the true chancellor, even though he himself has said he didn't really care; if he did, he would have done something about it. Then J'Ula calls everyone useless for being friends with the Federation, even though that alliance is what saved the entire galaxy. Then we get the random patrols cut and pasted into the mission. Apparently this old Klingon virus is good enough to completely turn Federation ships against us, even though the player interact takes 2 seconds and purges the virus completely. Then the Starbase is destroyed, and J'Ula gloats about how fun it is to kill humans. That Starbase probably had a few hundred civilians onboard, but whatever. Then, she launches an attack on the Quvat civilian shipyards (Specifically stated in the mission to be civilian shipyards). She's basically evil in every regard. Then they blow up an entire city.

    ...

    And you know what we do? We run away. Despite insurmountable evidence and a ship strong enough to take on 3 fleets and multiple flagships, we run.

    We run like honorable Klingons.

    I agree with everything this person said, but I'll only quote the beginning and end to conserve space.

    There is no way the player character would act like this. Whether playing as fed or Klingon, J'Ula is exactly the type of evil we exist to fight against. Maybe I'd take her prisoner as a fed, but anyone else would shoot her in the face if she wasn't forced onto our team. Any of my characters would happily die rather than let that monster go free, so the idea that we switch sides because of a dampening field is completely insane. Years of Star Trek TV and games have taught us that something like that can be disabled in a matter of minutes by any random ensign. There isn't even a big rush to escape the place until after we turn traitor.

    All the things J'mpok suddenly does to make himself evil are *after* J'Ula's claims, so she is without excuse.

    Khitomer Discord is the worst episode in the history of Star Trek Online. It's similar to the missions where we get railroaded into cooperating with Sela (may she rot in whatever the Romulan bad place is called), but there is one crucial difference:
    Cooperating with Sela did not require us to ATTACK OUR FRIENDS.

    Shon and Koren are both paragons who are concerned with nothing but the good of their people, and to a lesser degree, their people's allies. They were the only people in the entire pair of missions who acted true to their characters. To end up opposing them can only mean we've turned evil, and I missed the part where I was given the choice.

    If J'Ula's going to be the mission contact now, then you can sell your loot boxes to someone else, because I refuse to participate in this treachery.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    I still have Divide on one of my Fed Characters.

    What's going to happen is Leeta and Killey are going to show up and get locked in mortal combat with Aakar, and J'mpok and they will all get blown up together. Somehow, J'Ula will end up getting knocked off as well. ;)

    So I take it we won't be getting any more Alliance Ships in game? That was the real reason they started this whole Khitomer kerfuffle. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    Maybe J'Ula had a temporal ambassador situation between the first and the second mission? She tried to get a new even eviler(!) superweapon and somehow tribbled up the entire universe, landing in an alternate reality she created by getting by the letter what she wished for; realizing that it was a not really what she wanted. There she needed to restore the timeline and the only help she got was that timelines player character. After setting things right shes the only one who can remember and tries to course correct.
  • edited July 2020
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,251 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    but anyone else would shoot her in the face if she wasn't forced onto our team.
    I always find it funny to see this kind or argument posted(not just here) because it implies that most people think extra judicial killings are allowable, when most of the world considers it morally and ethically wrong.
    We all have stun settings so shooting her in the face doesn’t automatically mean judicial killing. Frankly with the amount of times she has ran away and people like her have escaped at the last second and given our characters history of events. I think the first thing I would have done given the chance is shoot her right away on maximum stun or even wide-angle stun and put her in my brig. If no time to set to stun I would have shoot her in the leg. Sisko style captains would most likely just hit her in the face for a knockout punch.

    As a nice little gameplay moment they could have given us 4 options to detain her based on our class. Which is something else I miss from the past. Missions used to have little changes based on class. Just as a random example everyone have option A. Then there was 3 further options based on class. Tac could have gone in the room with option A or B and order the team wide angle stun. Sci could have just before going could setup a status trap so have Option A or C and engineer might have caused the lights to flicker off as a distraction so option A and D? perhaps not the best examples but little minor events based on class was a highlight from old missions. The way an Engineer could stop the warp core breech in Stranded in Space saving the ship is a good example. While a tac couldn't save the ship but would save all the people. Somewhere along the line the devs lost that little nice feature in missions. For me this is the little thing that makes a big impact that new missions miss.

    Like others I loved the environment, liked the gameplay and even like the warping area to area with multiple blob space battles in the first mission. The story on the other hand based on what I have seen so far I am putting in top 2 worse in game. For me its almost as bad as Sela and going back in time to the Iconians home world, that plot made absolutely no sense at all.



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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,251 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    For me its almost as bad as Sela and going back in time to the Iconians home world, that plot made absolutely no sense at all.
    How does that not make sense? Its a by the book predestination paradox.

    Sela goes back in time in an attempt to stop the Iconians from destroying Romulus by shooting them. In the process she cripples one of them, and causes that Iconian to drop the World Heart. The loss of the World Heart prevents the Iconians from being able to rebuild, and causes them to want to get revenge on the Romulans. So, they blow up Romulus to get revenge on Sela and the Romulans. Blowing up Romulus is what causes Sela to want to go back and time and shoot them, loop infinity.

    Its the same as the Tholians and Na'kuhl. The Tholians use the Tox Uthat on the Na'kuhl star in revenge for the Na'kuhl wiping out a Tholian hive queen/colony in the TOS era. The Tholian's use of the Tox Uthat on the Na'kuhl star is what causes the Na'kuhl to go back in time to the TOS era to get revenge. Loop infinity.
    This is from a few years ago so this might be a little off as its from memory. From what I remember it was along the lines of a Romulan goes back in time to a point where Romulans have yet to break off from Vulcan and being biologically identical Sela would appear to be Vulcan. The Iconian’s in the past might know about Vulcans but nothing about Romulans as they have not broken away and rejected Surak's reforms during the Time of Awakening.

    The Iconian who cannot time travel and don’t appear to be able to see anything from the future instantly recognize her as Romulan despite there only being Vulcans at this point. Then there are more complications if you are a Vulcan/Romulan Captain and/or Vulcan/Romulan Bridge officers.

    The Iconains appear to be acting on knowledge they do not have and unless I missed it there is no explanation on why they don't confuse Vulcan\Romulans nor why they didn't attack the Vulcan homeworld which they must have found a long time before they found Romulus. Nor is there any explanation of why they ignore the actions of all other Vulcan\Romulans and only look at Sela. If Sela is mistaken for Vulcan it breaks the entire time loop.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    Oh, about that shooting in the face stuff, Romulan Character, 'Cutting the Cord', Hakeev.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • assetstudiesassetstudies Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    but anyone else would shoot her in the face if she wasn't forced onto our team.
    I always find it funny to see this kind or argument posted(not just here) because it implies that most people think extra judicial killings are allowable, when most of the world considers it morally and ethically wrong.

    it isn't extra judicial if less than a second ago she was shooting at us.
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,694 Arc User
    I agree with pretty much all of the objections to the last battle and siding with Ju'la.
    except one thing. CAPTAIN Shon. "Run and hide I'll take the heat" WTF.. I am a FLEET ADMIRAL. if anyone can take the heat it's the hero of the fracking Federation. you know, the girl who saved the president? The one who saved the GALAXY fro T'ket?
    and I have to run and HIDE??? Hello, Cryptic. the crew of the most celebrated ship in the federation can't HIDE. where are we going to go where we won't be recognized? Tholia? Go hang with the Great Link?
    We Want Vic Fontaine
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  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    This is from a few years ago so this might be a little off as its from memory. From what I remember it was along the lines of a Romulan goes back in time to a point where Romulans have yet to break off from Vulcan and being biologically identical Sela would appear to be Vulcan. The Iconian’s in the past might know about Vulcans but nothing about Romulans as they have not broken away and rejected Surak's reforms during the Time of Awakening.

    The Iconian who cannot time travel and don’t appear to be able to see anything from the future instantly recognize her as Romulan despite there only being Vulcans at this point. Then there are more complications if you are a Vulcan/Romulan Captain and/or Vulcan/Romulan Bridge officers.

    The Iconains appear to be acting on knowledge they do not have and unless I missed it there is no explanation on why they don't confuse Vulcan\Romulans nor why they didn't attack the Vulcan homeworld which they must have found a long time before they found Romulus. Nor is there any explanation of why they ignore the actions of all other Vulcan\Romulans and only look at Sela. If Sela is mistaken for Vulcan it breaks the entire time loop.
    You seem to forget that Kagran had arrived on Iconia a week before you and Sela did. He obviously asked the Iconians if they had seen the people he was with, and would have had to give a description of who they are and what they look like.

    Sela herself blames Kagran in one of the story blogs as well.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9573293-star-trek-online:-tales-of-the-war-#23
    How had T'Ket known she was a Romulan, anyway? Sela clenched a fist as she finally walked into the spaceport. Probably through Kagran when he was looking for the other ships and becoming best-buddies with the Iconians. Idiot. She'd remember that! She- Sela banished that line of thought and took a calming breath. She had to escape first.

    Thanks!

    ... *facepalm* And they hid this in a blog...

    Cryptic; take all your story blogs and feed them to the ships computer please (that ready room thing; or where ever its placed on deck-less ships). Maybe not current ones if they contain stuff the player don't know but please; use the advantages of your game to your... ehrm.. advantage.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,251 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    This is from a few years ago so this might be a little off as its from memory. From what I remember it was along the lines of a Romulan goes back in time to a point where Romulans have yet to break off from Vulcan and being biologically identical Sela would appear to be Vulcan. The Iconian’s in the past might know about Vulcans but nothing about Romulans as they have not broken away and rejected Surak's reforms during the Time of Awakening.

    The Iconian who cannot time travel and don’t appear to be able to see anything from the future instantly recognize her as Romulan despite there only being Vulcans at this point. Then there are more complications if you are a Vulcan/Romulan Captain and/or Vulcan/Romulan Bridge officers.

    The Iconains appear to be acting on knowledge they do not have and unless I missed it there is no explanation on why they don't confuse Vulcan\Romulans nor why they didn't attack the Vulcan homeworld which they must have found a long time before they found Romulus. Nor is there any explanation of why they ignore the actions of all other Vulcan\Romulans and only look at Sela. If Sela is mistaken for Vulcan it breaks the entire time loop.
    You seem to forget that Kagran had arrived on Iconia a week before you and Sela did. He obviously asked the Iconians if they had seen the people he was with, and would have had to give a description of who they are and what they look like.

    Sela herself blames Kagran in one of the story blogs as well.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9573293-star-trek-online:-tales-of-the-war-#23
    How had T'Ket known she was a Romulan, anyway? Sela clenched a fist as she finally walked into the spaceport. Probably through Kagran when he was looking for the other ships and becoming best-buddies with the Iconians. Idiot. She'd remember that! She- Sela banished that line of thought and took a calming breath. She had to escape first.

    Thanks!

    ... *facepalm* And they hid this in a blog...

    Cryptic; take all your story blogs and feed them to the ships computer please (that ready room thing; or where ever its placed on deck-less ships). Maybe not current ones if they contain stuff the player don't know but please; use the advantages of your game to your... ehrm.. advantage.
    That's a good idea. I don't object to the story blogs but when a story doesn't make sense unless you read a blog hidden deep within a website and no hint in the mission there is some random blog then the mission is badly designed. Those blogs should be inside missions or arrive as an mail to the captains computer. Perhaps after completing a mission you can go to the ready room and read a mission report which links into those story blogs?

    Which is part of the problem with new missions. They feel like players have no choice and nothing we do matters. Missions have been dumbed down to outside combat Press F for chat and interface with objects with every run though the same. Every outcome is the same. Even though most of it was minor it was much better in old missions when we had multiple ways to play though them with multiple outcomes. None of the choices really mattered but it gave players the illusions of choice and being in control which in turned increase fun factor and reasons to play. Going back to Stranded in Space where some people fix the warp core and save the ship while others save people but the ship explodes. Everyone completes the mission but the little things like that are missing in new missions.
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  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    Thanks!

    ... *facepalm* And they hid this in a blog...

    Cryptic; take all your story blogs and feed them to the ships computer please (that ready room thing; or where ever its placed on deck-less ships). Maybe not current ones if they contain stuff the player don't know but please; use the advantages of your game to your... ehrm.. advantage.
    Except this isn't "hidden in a blog", they outright tell you in-game that Kagran arrived a week before you, and the Iconians mentions that another like you(Kagran) had shown up before you, and was looking for some people.

    I was referring to the written out story; not the guesswork.
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  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    I was referring to the written out story; not the guesswork.
    Its not guesswork but ok.

    Its not the storyblog either :P
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,588 Community Moderator
    I agree with pretty much all of the objections to the last battle and siding with Ju'la.
    except one thing. CAPTAIN Shon. "Run and hide I'll take the heat" WTF.. I am a FLEET ADMIRAL. if anyone can take the heat it's the hero of the fracking Federation. you know, the girl who saved the president? The one who saved the GALAXY fro T'ket?
    and I have to run and HIDE??? Hello, Cryptic. the crew of the most celebrated ship in the federation can't HIDE. where are we going to go where we won't be recognized? Tholia? Go hang with the Great Link?

    Look at it from another perspective. Shon (or Koren if you're KDF side) is basically turning you into a wildcard. You may have evidence, including scan data, but J'mpok will just say it was altered, more Mo'kai trickery. It turns into your word against his. And J'mpok is apparently a master of deception himself. Hell... he just used Kitomer to try and off Martok outright, and to martyr the player for his cause because what would cause more outrage against J'Ula, than the death of a hero or two? But you survived, and he had to scramble to paint you a traitor.

    But... it opens the door to us operating with a bit more freedom to investigate and gather REAL evidence that cannot be handwaved away by claiming it was altered. In this case... we had no choice but to side with the lesser of two evils. And our characters are NOT best friends with J'Ula. Its an alliance of necessitiy. A means to an end. J'Ula may have been right about J'mpok, but her hands are just as bloody as his. And if you think about it, its even worse for a Disco Fed because of past history with J'Ula and Aakar, since it was J'Ula who killed your Captain, pushing you into command right out of the Academy, J'Ula who you chased off the Glenn, and J'Ula who was responsible for dragging you and your ship into the 25th Century.
    It's not much of a superweapon if you can escape it by calmly walking away from it. I remember a TOS episode where Kirk stuns a whole city block with the Enterprise's phasers, that seems a LOT more effective than the "superweapon".

    Gameplay purposes. If the rift formed as quickly as was shown in the past, our characters would be dead instantly, and there'd be no story to tell. They purposefully slowed it down for dramatic effect. To give the player time to rescue people, and set up for the epic last second evac.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    just did the tfo for the first time: what a boring tfo! no fun, no new mechanic (again, defend crappy sat etc).
    this game is just begun boring, no new stuff, no fun, no suprises. it is always the same stuff with little modifications.

    take the time to create dlc's with new contents (good stories, with good scriprs), new weapons (ground and space), new costumes etc at a fair price: 10, 20 or 30 euros and the health of this game would be better. for now, my wallet is closed for an unlimited time.

    why i would buy a ship at 30 euros for doing content with this average quality, or doing the same thing again, and again and again for no real interesting rewards.
    And give me a way to buy stuff, out of these crappy boxes (without ec; ec prices are ridiculous), and i would open my wallet.

    good luck for the future.
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  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,971 Arc User
    just did the tfo for the first time: what a boring tfo! no fun, no new mechanic (again, defend crappy sat etc).
    this game is just begun boring, no new stuff, no fun, no suprises. it is always the same stuff with little modifications.

    take the time to create dlc's with new contents (good stories, with good scriprs), new weapons (ground and space), new costumes etc at a fair price: 10, 20 or 30 euros and the health of this game would be better. for now, my wallet is closed for an unlimited time.

    why i would buy a ship at 30 euros for doing content with this average quality, or doing the same thing again, and again and again for no real interesting rewards.
    And give me a way to buy stuff, out of these crappy boxes (without ec; ec prices are ridiculous), and i would open my wallet.

    good luck for the future.

    This is Year of the Klingon Part 1. It is not over yet. More is coming.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,588 Community Moderator
    Yes, I know they slowed it down for "dramatic effect", that's why it's bad. Bad writing. A better option: have the weapon malfunction, it created a small rift that the elachi are pouring through, and you have X minutes before they fix the malfunction and fire again, vaporizing everything.

    Problem with that is there is no way the player on the ground is going to know how long they have before a ship in orbit fires again. Its far more dramatic from a storytelling viewpoint to see the rift growing and coming towards you like the wave of doom it is supposed to be. Kinda like that scene in the 2014 Godzilla, where Godzilla comes ashore in Hawaii, causing that tidal wave. There is absolutely NO WAY that that dog or that family could have outrun the wave as long as they did. But it made for good movie scene.

    Also... risks exposing who actually fired that shot in the first place. J'mpok's whole scheme relies on everyone believing it was J'Ula who fired that shot. If J'mpok fired a second shot, the chances of him being exposed increase.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • revanindustriesrevanindustries Member Posts: 508 Arc User
    My head-canon for the slow spread of the weapon is the fact they had barely any time to actually install it onto J’mpok’s ship led to it not firing properly, causing enough issues that the resulting breach didn’t expand as rapidly as it should have.
This discussion has been closed.