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The Year of Klingon

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  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,389 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    dareau wrote: »
    What is meant by "Federation-centric" storytelling isn't the "what" of the story, it's the how. To wit, with just some aspects from the Iconian War:

    My Orion Pirate, when holding the entirety of the Iconian's data in her hand, sure wouldn't be thinking "if I give her this ball, we're safe". She'd be thinking on how to time-bop to somewhere else, make a copy of said ball, then time-bop back to the point where she gives up the data-ball to end the war. She's already thinking about how her race of pirates will now be the "rightful" rulers of the Empire (heck, Federation, whole of Alpha Quadrant/known Galaxy, etc.). And she'd be thinking of a way to set Sela up (again) for the proverbial "throw her and by extension the Romulans" under the bus to help make sure she's getting her way (and rulership of everything...)

    Why's my Lethean Mercenary worried about body counts and battle strategies outside of his unit and doing all this for no actual paycheck?

    Why's my Klingon spearheading any other plan besides "throw everything into Glorious Battle to bring Honor to my house"? Unless it was made crystal clear that the only way to Honor and Glory is the "subterfuge, which is a lowly Romulan Trick", thing?

    The "gripe" that all STO (especially all of STO's "Alliance era") storytelling is "Fed-Centirc", it's because no matter what race/faction the character is, you take the "Federation's Preferred Method" of saving the day, frequently without any explanation as to why your motives are "aligned" with the Federation's methods over how that given character would act.
    The idea that all, or even most, Orions are part of the Orion Syndicate pirate group is not only wrong, but ridiculous from any standpoint. Most Orions have nothing to do with the Syndicate, and are likewise not pirates. Not to mention, the Orion Syndicate is technically hostile to even the Klingon Empire, so if you WERE an Orion Pirate, you wouldn't be in the KDF to begin with. The same is true in regards to Letheans not all being mercenaries, and not all Klingons being "blood for the blood god!" warriors, who just rush at everything face first.

    If your only argument to prove that the storyline is Federation centric is to say your non Federation toon isn't treated like a one dimensional caricature out of a Saturday morning cartoon, then you really have no argument. Especially since Star Trek has constantly shown that other species aren't as one dimensional as they first appear.

    I have never understood why the people who complain about Feds the most tend to have the absolute worst ideas about all the non Fed races, and just racially stereotype them into one group. Star Trek would be awful if the universe was as flat as you seem to think it should be.

    Mayhap stereotypes exist because they're at least a "commonly accepted way to paint a large picture of something with just a few words".

    And mayhap I'd rather "lead" my case through the use of stereotype, due to the hope that it'd expedite the arguments some. To wit

    What about a Federation character who thinks that the "noble Empire/Dictatorship" is an aspirational ideal, but to expedite the argument I'd bank on the understanding that most Klingons are already pulling for a singular universal Empire.
    Or a "Federation Minimalist", who'd rather have the smallest government possible and more akin to the "alliance" that the Orion Pirates use as their governmental foundation?
    And that both these characters are contemplating the same "time travel trick" I posted above, but with the ultimate goal being "their slightly tinted variants" (the "noble" Empire vs. the "evil" one, or a universe where all governments are small but ultimately aligned somewhat under one arbiter, initially the PC in question).
    Or the "I've completed Kolinhar Vulcan", who wouldn't accept any rationale that's not 100% grounded in "logic", yet occasionally allows emotional reaction and "empathy" to occur?

    Fed-Centrism is the "community's accepted term" for this "issue" - the one where all characters in the storyline are portrayed as "adherents to the Federation's Idealism as frequently espoued by Picard and put into "maverick" or "emotionally guided" action by Kirk" no matter what characterization is desired by the player.

    Granted, this is a CRPG. The volumes of data required to "allow" all the various "pathways" is astronomical (and therefore astronomically expensive and beyond the resources available to Cryptic). Nevermind the havoc that multiple storylines from multiple points of view would cause "the one true Canon". But there should be at least some "throwing of a bone" to the playerbase as to why this volume of personality types/motivations would all ultimately boil down to the "one true way" of the storyline...

    Parting thought, perhaps it's common to play "planet of hats" with Trek Races because Trek pioneered the "planet of hats" trope...
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • tancrediivtancrediiv Member Posts: 727 Arc User
    My fleet is a Klingon Fleet. KDF Elite Force is one of the old ones. Many of us do not even play Federation, with the exception of those of us who had to be level 25(?) before we could roll a KDF.

    So many have left the game because of broken game mechanics, inclusion of discovery, and the total butchering of the Klingon race in the latest Discovery content. My hope this Year of Klingons will be sufficient to bring many of my fleet back and new ones to join us.

    May this Year Bring Glory to the Empire. Qapla!

    PS. Stop whining. You all aren't even hurt yet. And be an emo Romulan/Cardassian/Whatever somewhere else. This is the Year of Klingons! :D

    Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER

    Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
  • therealblackkaostherealblackkaos Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    I’ve been reading the comments on this thread. Very good points and counterpoints. I have a question/observation to add.

    My issues with how the developers have handled non-Fed characters is evident in any dialogue choices my alt has to give. As a Klingon, my answers and choices should align more with the Klingon Way. If I want to fight instead of using diplomacy, then let me skip past the talk and go in guns blazing. Instead, it seems as if it’s a cookie cutter approach. No matter which race you’re playing, it’s always going to have a Fed undertone to it. Just because there’s a “alliance” doesn’t mean that everyone buys into it. If I want to be a rogue Dahar Master, then let me act like it to some degree. There’s not a lot of freedom of choice written into the game design. It’s always going to push the Fed angle of the alliance. But what about the Klingon/Romulan/Dominion angles? They have their own machinations and motivations that seems as if they’ve been ignored. If we base it on real world politics, there should be some push/pull from the different races. I remember interacting with Ambassador S’taass and getting a tone from him that he’s not “all in” to the Alliance and that he’s not going to let the Klingon Empire fall by the wayside. Yet it seems that’s exactly what’s happened. Pretty sure that there’s some Romulans that feel the same way.

    My question is this: does anyone else see this or is it just me? Is there any plans to change the narrative or is this the “new normal” now? I think that the choices in game should reflect more toward your races ideals and values. Or is this one of those “I’m expecting too much when there’s a outside entity pulling the purse strings”?
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,508 Arc User
    robeasom wrote: »
    I hope if the AoY is expanded to include TOS Klingons (don't worry, they wouldn't be a 'villain faction', but rather would be intergrated into the timeline like the TOS Starfleet equivalants), we'll get to see Quo'nos with an intact Praxis.

    I would like to see AOY klingons as well.But at the beginning they would need to be a villian faction as the klingons were at war with starfleet at the time as that was shown on the screen. However there is a way they can be brought into the current timeline. There was a episode of TNG which had a klingon sleeper ship where Worf poses as a klingon captain and speaks to the klingons and stops them from attacking. maybe that will be a way of our klingons entering 2410 maybe we are part of another sleeper ship and Worf again this time as ambassador stops us from attacking federation worlds and then we get intregated into the timeline

    I could see that as one possibility, but if we ever want to re-integrate those "lost" klingon time travel episodes, we'd need to wed Daniels to Worf or Miral Paris to other AOY. But, yeah, I can definitely see six to eight pure 23rd Century Klingon stories leading to a 25th century awaking.
    f5cc65bc8f3b91f963e328314df7c48d.jpg
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • jaymaverick007jaymaverick007 Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    Does this mean that they may yet make a pvp battlezone for klingons to hunt their prey? Some where that they can use their skills and honor in a real battle? NOT This same old purgatory of repetitive pve.

    I sure hope so. Maybe they can make a cap and hold like Gon cra for pvp. With maybe 3 teams/sides, red, blue ,and green.. Romulan/KLINGON/FEDERATION?


    OR MAYBE ANOTHER DIMENSIONAL MIROR UNIVER CROSS OVER. AND PLAYERS COULD BE SPLIT BETWEEN UNIVERSES, RED, BLUE, AND GREEN?


    PICK YOUR UNIVERSE TO FIGHT FOR. then klingons, romulans, and fed can team up agains balances like adversaries.

    We could also have npcs that warp in and help hold the captured zones just like Gon cra?
    Retired Rear Admiral-Jay Maverick-
    Known simply as -Maverick-
    Klingons should Beware of Maverick.
    Maverick loves a fight and tends to be victorious even as the underdog.
    He has an aptitude for tactics,guerrilla warfare and security.
    "United Federation of Planets"
    12th Fleet - Intelligence Division "Khalija" - Alpha Group
    Not on Current Assignment.-On Retirement leave at Leach Lake in Minnesota
  • sakesshsakessh Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Please. Im begging you, no more Discovery Klingons...seriously.
    And for the love of God, an affordable K'tinga..
  • garaffegaraffe Member Posts: 1,178 Arc User
    I’ve been reading the comments on this thread. Very good points and counterpoints. I have a question/observation to add.

    My issues with how the developers have handled non-Fed characters is evident in any dialogue choices my alt has to give. As a Klingon, my answers and choices should align more with the Klingon Way. If I want to fight instead of using diplomacy, then let me skip past the talk and go in guns blazing. Instead, it seems as if it’s a cookie cutter approach. No matter which race you’re playing, it’s always going to have a Fed undertone to it. Just because there’s a “alliance” doesn’t mean that everyone buys into it. If I want to be a rogue Dahar Master, then let me act like it to some degree. There’s not a lot of freedom of choice written into the game design. It’s always going to push the Fed angle of the alliance. But what about the Klingon/Romulan/Dominion angles? They have their own machinations and motivations that seems as if they’ve been ignored. If we base it on real world politics, there should be some push/pull from the different races. I remember interacting with Ambassador S’taass and getting a tone from him that he’s not “all in” to the Alliance and that he’s not going to let the Klingon Empire fall by the wayside. Yet it seems that’s exactly what’s happened. Pretty sure that there’s some Romulans that feel the same way.

    My question is this: does anyone else see this or is it just me? Is there any plans to change the narrative or is this the “new normal” now? I think that the choices in game should reflect more toward your races ideals and values. Or is this one of those “I’m expecting too much when there’s a outside entity pulling the purse strings”?

    As someone who only plays Romulan Republic, I am right there with you. Half the time, the NPCs don't even acknowledge me as a non-Fed. I would really love to see this game move away from the everybody-should-act-and-talk-like-a-Fed approach to mission design. I am sure it is even worse for Klink and Dom players. There should be different versions (some more so, some less so) of each cross-faction mission for each of the four factions. If nothing else, there should be different versions for Feds/Fed alligned and Klink/Klingon alligned.
  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 607 Arc User
    In my case while most of my characters are Fed characters I do have some characters that are Romulan, Klingon and Dominion.

    I have two normal Fed characters, my human tac and ex-borg human engineer, AoY human sci and alien Disc sci. I also have a Romulan tac, a Klingon engi and a tac vanguard jem'hadar as my main characters. (I have numerous lesser 'play' characters one from each faction except jem'hadar but that's another story entirely.)

    And I play these non-federation characters exactly because I want the different perspective from a fed character. I too would like my non-fed characters to be *recognised* for what they are even if most of the time its only a reflection in dialogue. Being able to select a different method or mission outcome based on faction would be nice I admit.

    So I'm quite happy to see a 'year of the Klingon' and hope it'll lead to a few more Klingon-centric storyline missions as well as the cosmetic and visual upgrades. Seeing New Romulus (especially the staging area) updated would be nice too. But at this point any new story missions would be welcome as so few are added and so many have been cut out. I'm still trying to understand why Cryptic cut out so many of the B'Vat storyline missions. Its made the already content-thin Federation/Klingon war even thinner.
  • oliverrogerr#5018 oliverrogerr Member Posts: 92 Arc User

    I unfortunately missed the opportunity to buy the 10th anniversary content, I hope you have a 10th anniversary content Klingon version, to be able to buy, and just a tip ... let this type of content sell for at least 1 full month, a lot people like me only get paid on a certain day of the month, and we end up not buying promotions because of the short time available.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,378 Bug Hunter
    edited May 2020
    hawku001x wrote: »
    Looking forward to Klingon stuff. Would love a mission where we conquer a planet and drink blood wine over the dead bodies of their leaders. Seems like a thing my Klingon Captain would do.

    I'm also excited for the year of the Klingon, but my Klingons don't find honor in using force, while they are Marauders more than Diplomats, still they were largely influenced by Mogue (Wolf Father's House) who tried to be more Diplomatic. Still I'm greatly looking forward to the revision of many of the earlier Klingon stories. I'm certain we'd all love some earlier missions revised or updated, but also for Romulans & Federation, similar to was done in Cardassian Struggle 2.5+ years earlier. <3

    There's a lot of content possible for updates especially with 2-3 new Trek shows either on air or coming, some such as the new Pike series that appears forthcoming along with a possible earlier Section 31 series. Star Trek Picard is likely the most influence in our current timeline though several other updates are coming to older content.

    I'm excited at a Temporal Timeline that attempts to resolve the 29th - 31st Century displacement showed in Voyager, with Discovery Season 3. That might require some creative synagies created between Cryptic &/or Star Trek Writers sharing some insights how it influences our timeline, or is like when Spock went to Kelvin spawn an Alternative Reality?

    I guess we can only wait and see...

    Regardless it's nice to see CBS/Viacom expanding Star Trek offerings.
    Post edited by strathkin on
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  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 3,670 Arc User
    I unfortunately missed the opportunity to buy the 10th anniversary content, I hope you have a 10th anniversary content Klingon version, to be able to buy, and just a tip ... let this type of content sell for at least 1 full month, a lot people like me only get paid on a certain day of the month, and we end up not buying promotions because of the short time available.

    This comment really has nothing to do with The Year of Klingon. Part of it does and part of it does not.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,340 Arc User
    sakessh wrote: »
    Please. Im begging you, no more Discovery Klingons...seriously.
    And for the love of God, an affordable K'tinga..

    ^
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  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,808 Arc User
    Some Enterprise era Klingon ships would be nice, the Enterprise era D5 and Bird of Prey please.
    And on the Klingon theme, Orion Raiders as another flavour of raider.

    The Nausicaan pirate ship as well
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • warmonger360warmonger360 Member Posts: 524 Arc User
      edited May 2020
      sakessh wrote: »
      Please. Im begging you, no more Discovery Klingons...seriously.
      And for the love of God, an affordable K'tinga..

      absolutely, most definitely and with total certainty have no prob with this. I trust there's no ambiguity as to my position. the K'tinga must needs to be properly proportioned, in that the nacelles to be thinner, neck thinner and longer and the engineering hull thinner top/bottom where the neck attaches

      WE SURVIVE!

      aut vincere aut mori pro imperio
      either to conquer or to die for the Empire
    • redwren89redwren89 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
      Sharpen up those daktaghs, shine up those D7s, refurbish Qonos sceneries.

      A classic Klingon ships pack with revamps like the legendary bundle? Yes please
    • redwren89redwren89 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
      robeasom wrote: »
      As much as I am excited about this I am also very skeptical. When you updated a lot of the Fed story lines you removed content. Please do not remove any of the KDF episodes. Update the graphics add cutscenes by all means but keep the amount of content as KDF does not have enough faction story line to remove any of it.

      Forgive my skepticism but I have seen to much content being removed from STO and either not be replaced or replaced by inferior quality content which leave the game broken.

      I will try and keep a open mind and see what the dev blogs about it will say.

      It's been a while since we went through that time portal to find captain spock
    • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 607 Arc User
      mikoto8472 wrote: »
      I'm still trying to understand why Cryptic cut out so many of the B'Vat storyline missions
      Because they were some of the oldest missions in the game, and weren't particularly good, so they were removed for remastering. the dev who was going to do them took time off because his wife had a baby, and then by the time he got back it was all hands on deck for the 10th anniversary content, so it got delayed.

      Thank you for explaining this to me. At least it makes a bit of sense now though really if they knew they weren't going to be remastering them for awhile Cryptic shoulda put the old ones back in place for the timebeing.
    • lblackmoorlblackmoor Member Posts: 31 Arc User
      What I’m hoping for, and it’s a simple thing... is more, many more, costume options... Including reverting an old change, remove the ‘leg warmers’ from the Bortasqu’ boots of all types.
    • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
      lblackmoor wrote: »
      What I’m hoping for, and it’s a simple thing... is more, many more, costume options... Including reverting an old change, remove the ‘leg warmers’ from the Bortasqu’ boots of all types.
      If they do make a dupe with it...
      -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      My character Tsin'xing
      Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
    • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,332 Arc User
      I'm somewhat enthused about this. But I've adopted a 'wait and see' attitude.
      Nope. It ain't Discovery. Ain't Picard, either. It's you.
    • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,482 Arc User
      A Federation arc would be like a second tutorial with even less action and tons of political dialogues. Like an oversized Starfleet Academy social zone. Imagine Jiro Sugihara talking with two Bolians and you get a good idea. Personally, I'm a die-hard fan of Star Trek (excepting JJ's *%?8* and DSC) so I'd be okay with such a very quiet Federation centered arc, but I doubt much of the playerbase would enjoy it, much less like it at all. If you want a Hollywoodian-style-enemy-within arc, well, after DS9 and TNG, it's going to be déjà vu. It could work though.
      Pretty much.

      This also why I have never understood why people want to go to planets like Betazed, or Tellar, or Denobula. All of these are worlds that have been i nthe Federation for ages, and would have nothing to do there but press F to talk to people.

      When was the day your imagination died? :P

      People asking for this most likely want to enjoy these places with a bit of content added beyond talking to people. Although NPCs that add/refresh some of the lore by talking to them would make it more wholesome.
    • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,428 Arc User
      A Federation arc would be like a second tutorial with even less action and tons of political dialogues. Like an oversized Starfleet Academy social zone. Imagine Jiro Sugihara talking with two Bolians and you get a good idea. Personally, I'm a die-hard fan of Star Trek (excepting JJ's *%?8* and DSC) so I'd be okay with such a very quiet Federation centered arc, but I doubt much of the playerbase would enjoy it, much less like it at all. If you want a Hollywoodian-style-enemy-within arc, well, after DS9 and TNG, it's going to be déjà vu. It could work though.
      Pretty much.

      This also why I have never understood why people want to go to planets like Betazed, or Tellar, or Denobula. All of these are worlds that have been i nthe Federation for ages, and would have nothing to do there but press F to talk to people.

      When was the day your imagination died? :P

      People asking for this most likely want to enjoy these places with a bit of content added beyond talking to people. Although NPCs that add/refresh some of the lore by talking to them would make it more wholesome.
      You could even have infiltrator storyline, where you need to discover who's out of place, by talking to people and learning about the lore (though that would work best as an optional side mission).

      Even systems that has been in the Federation for ages aren't immune to internal conflicts (hell in DS9 we had internal conflict in Earth of all places).
    • revanindustriesrevanindustries Member Posts: 508 Arc User
      Here’s hoping they can use something in this to give us a Temp Op for KDF side. That way there can be faction parity on reruns of that event.
    • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,482 Arc User
      How did we came on Fed worlds in this topic anyway? What my KDF main really needs is an actual formal real KLINGON dress that is also capable to show some assets ;)

      91hwizJJrWL._AC_SX385_.jpg
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