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Changes to Ranks Coming to STO? (Minor Spoiler for Picard episode 2)
nrobbiec
Member Posts: 959 Arc User
A commodore was introduced, meaning Rear Admiral lower and upper halves are no longer the canonical rank structure (after all they were never spoken aloud as far as I can recall). I wonder if we will see this official change to rank designation reflected in level up ranks. It is much less clunky, I like the change (or reversion I guess).
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my guess is that the rank of commadore was restored as a result of reforms added after the dominion war. War time tends to lead innovation and reforms as "giant glaring errors" in peace time orginization etc are revealed
Yes commodore was used in ENT and TOS. Then it just sort of disappeared and everyone was just admiral.
I'm not sure where upper and lower halves originated from, was it an interview or source book?
Unless I'm missing something, there doesn't seem to be a source to the halving distinction cited. Rear Admiral is officially only the 2 pip version accordingly.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_(rank)
And apparently the Rear Admiral Lower seems to stem from the US Navy? Only the US doesn't use upper half to denote the higher level. Its just straight Rear Admiral.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear_admiral_(United_States)
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Picard is now 12 years in STOs past. Thus if they had the VCommodore Rank for a time back then, in the next 12 years they got rid of it again.
TOS had Commodores but by STII:TWoK forward, the rank no longer existed.
So yeah, 12 years on Star Fleet removed it again.
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Actually, Commodore was used in the first season of TNG. So in 2365, it was no longer used or at least shown in Star Trek. There is always the possibility that the Commodore rank still exist after 2364, but never mentioned.
Even if Commodore existed in that era all the devs need to say is things changed with the 25th century.
And the 'halves' of RA have always been stupid, from the day the rank was added to the game. We saw Commodores in the show, then everyone suddenly said Starfleet stopped using it, but we never once saw or heard or read about a 'lower half' RA in canon but that was for some reason never a problem, it was completely logical to assume the rank was changed despite never having a single hint about it or any reason to even speculate that happened.
I would welcome them making this change, even if it's only a minor cosmetical one.
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In that, most commodores command starbases and only occasionally squadrons on anything other than a temporary basis (which would not be a problem for a player character since they are supposed to be unusual anway). In fact, Matt Decker is the only full time independent squadron commodore shown in TOS (the "pretzel" emblem), the other commodores (like Bob Wesley) were all Starbase division and wore the "evening starflower" emblem. Informal ad-hoc squadrons were also sometimes lead by a "fleet captain" like Garth, they would have worn the standard "Starship Duty" delta (which in turn was originally the UESPA logo repurposed and turned to point up).
Just for completeness, besides the delta, the pretzel, and the starflower they had three (or four) others: a smaller simpler version of the starflower for academy cadets, the merchant marine one seen on the crew of the Antares in "Charly X", and the outpost/colony services which looked a bit like a pinecone laying on its side.
Then there one is the "boomerang" often called the "Defiant" emblem (in fact STO uses it as such for TOS uniforms), but it is actually the general Starfleet emblem (in fact it is painted on the Enterprise's secondary hull just behind the deflector to signify that it is a Starfleet ship) and possibly meant that a lot of the personnel who were on the Defiant when it was trapped were unassigned temporary personnel for some unknown reason, or that the ship itself may have been reserve and not assigned to a particular division.
The long vertical rectangle that the crew of the Exeter was wearing in "Omega Glory" was a mistake in costuming, and was the subject of a memo from Bob Justman calling them out for the error. Since too many scenes were already shot to go back and fix it at that point they kept going with it for that episode but would not use it again. It could be explained easily enough by calling it yet another division emblem that was being phased out however. From the mission Exeter was on perhaps some kind of planetary science/anthropology/archaeology division (perhaps like the people stationed in the "blinds" observing the locals in "Insurrection", and the resemblance to some Vulcan wall hangings and jewelry could mean that it was borrowed from the Vulcan Science Academy the same way the UESPA logo was for the delta.
> Starfleet has had Commodore already, even used in TOS. Even addressed him as such.
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> (Image)
Commode Matthew Decker
Lower and Upper half come from the real life ranks of the Navy, which Star Trek is based on...Rear Admiral Lower Half replaced Commodore in the 80s in the US Navy which is why we probably don't see it in anything TNG and beyond.
Star Trek followed the Navy and STO followed Star Trek.
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> Lower and Upper half come from the real life ranks of the Navy, which Star Trek is based on...Rear Admiral Lower Half replaced Commodore in the 80s in the US Navy which is why we probably don't see it in anything TNG and beyond.
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> Star Trek followed the Navy and STO followed Star Trek.
That is absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume any such change took place in universe. And now we know it didn't. The reasoning was always flawed.
Otherwise it would be reasonable to assume every rank, service or character not seen in an episode was discontinued or resigned until it showed up again. Makes no sense.
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Rear Admiral Lower Half was in TNG...sorry
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So Lower Half Did exist...and there has been zero mention of any kind of Commodore after TNG...they had one in Enterprise but that of course is well before TNG and TOS. There isn't even a official insignia for Commodore beyond TMP...
Came from the US Navy the ranks of Starfleet are based on US Navy ranks
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> So Lower Half Did exist...and there has been zero mention of any kind of Commodore after TNG...they had one in Enterprise but that of course is well before TNG and TOS. There isn't even a official insignia for Commodore beyond TMP...
Picard shows the one pip admiral is commodore. Lower half and upper half are just interpretations.
> @shadowkosh said:
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> Came from the US Navy the ranks of Starfleet are based on US Navy ranks
So there never has been any in universe evidence of this rank. The only canonical example we have is a commodore with the rank pips one below rear admiral.
I think this overrides one country's naval traditions
Nothing indicates how these ranks are called, as they were never adressed as such. Commodore however exists and was appearantly just renewed. So the 'halves' have been nullified by canon.
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l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Commodore and Admiral are sufficient... though I think they should just retire all the titles above Commodore since Admirals aren't going to be going out and fighting the Breen or whatever.
Sorry this has been brought up time and again no they are not going to retire admiral ranks
Here it is in universe
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bob_Wesley
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> Here it is in universe
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> https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bob_Wesley
I see no evidence of lower half admiral existing in universe in this article.
It doesn’t matter Star Trek has used US Navy ranks for years enough said commodore was used in TOS when they started to use rear admiral