Engage Snarker Mode:
It's C-Store ships+other C-Store items sales that keep the game alive, I seriously doubt promo ships have anything to do with it.
The R&D promo limited time event that only happens fairly infrequently, if the game depended on that to pay the bills, we'd have no game!
ModeSwitchBrutalHonesty:
Players should have better things to do then farm virtual currency just to buy fancy ships/items at unrealistic prices.
A game is meant to be played casually and for fun, if the players practically living in the game to earn a virtual paycheck (metaphorically speaking), then it's time to set limits on how much the game is played, it's not meant to be an emulation of earning wages in real life!
To be direct, I find the idea of anyone earning the about of EC necessary to buy one of these limited time ships in the 30seconds-1 minute it takes to write one of these responses comedically amusing.
And I needed a good laugh today.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Engage Snarker Mode:
It's C-Store ships+other C-Store items sales that keep the game alive, I seriously doubt promo ships have anything to do with it.
Unfortunately, that's completely backwards. The R&D Promo's and Lockboxes are the 'cash cows' that keep the game alive.
Love it or hate it.. it's irrelevant because it won't change anything. People still make post after post complaining about it which is a complete waste of time. That time is better spent actually playing the game.
It's not hard to earn this stuff in game, just takes a little time.
Its just as much peoples good will that keeps a game alive than the wallets of idiots who can't see that they're paying too much for a box thats nowhere near the value of its asking price.
Like it or not, promo ships keep the game alive. There is no point complaining over and over in every thread.
It's always the same tired lot.. if you guys spent as much time building up your in game resources as you do complaining you would have everything you could ever want and more.
Been here since 2012, son. Spend an average of US $45 to US $60 a month on this game. Proof? I'll happily post a pic of the stacks of Perfect World cards I've purchased or a snapshot of my transactions via ARC.
So, there's your "keeping the game alive" remark refuted. At least in my case. I cannot speak for others. But I am pretty sure I'm not the only person pumping cash into this game.
Also, searching my posts might reveal maybe one other time I've complained about promo ships. I usually have enough resources and IRL cash available I can simply buy one off the Exchange.
You might be in danger of losing your Expert Forum Warrior Status by posting something like this. Seeings how you're so totally wrong about me.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
No, thanks. I'll pass. Willfully and with malice aforethought placing this ship(?) behind a less than 0.00001% chance to acquire it shows just how out of touch Sales and Marketing at Cryptic is with both their potential and current customers.
Couple this to the fact you made a Science shuttle into some sort of Pilot based escort without any Science abilities shows just how out of touch the Dev Team is with both Star Trek and the playerbase. It is at best a one man starship or shuttle. Which is canon. Go watch the bloody film next time before you so proudly display your complete lack of knowledge of Star Trek in such an obvious and distressing manner.
Had you put the thing into the Lobi Store, I might have purchased it. But since you're attempting another pass at my wallet this way, the digital version of Three Card Monty, I would not own this ship on a dare.
What special "science" abilities did this ship use in the film exactly? As I recall, Spock referred to it as "our fastest ship" only - commissioned by the Vulcan Science Academy, which is not a definite indication of what kind of ship it is. No mention whatsoever as a "science" ship.
It makes sense (at least to me) to take some liberty with these ships to incorporate them into a game. I'm not going to go ape TRIBBLE because it isn't a 100% direct copy from canon in every detail. There is hardly any content in this game designed for shuttles or "1 man ships". That alone makes it more desirable.
As for "placing it behind a a less than 0.00001% chance to acquire it", if you buy it off the exchange, your chance of getting it is 100%. You may not like the EC price, but you're still guaranteed to get it with zero gambling involved.
I get the impression it was not a science ship at all from the movie dialog, and nothing done with the ship gives any indication that it is anything except an especially fast ship that can carry a person and a small amount of equipment like the Red Matter container.
In fact, all the spinning stuff correlates rather well with the Orion Intruder which used a "dynamic field warp" which is supposed to be especially fast (though a fuel guzzler in the process) so Spock's statement about taking the fastest ship the institute had means it is probably literally that, a fast courier or scout (think stormchaser sportscar that pinpoints a tornado's position instead of the science van it locates the tornados for, to use a realworld example) or even an engine testbed ship.
On the other hand the game has already put out a lot of little tactical scouts and whatnot so it is good that they are doing at least something new for science.
Cool ship. I agree that "realistically", it should probably be a shuttle. Or maybe not. Looking at the youtube video, sure, only Spock sits at the helm - but considering the giant size the narada is supposed to have, and how the Jellyfish looks in comparison as it is colliding with it, I am not sure the scales really match. The ship might be visually larger than some out-of-movie description claimed.
Realistically, the Vulcan Science Vessel we got last Anniversary should have been a shuttle, too.
In the end, "realism" concerns went already out of the window with the Galaxy-X becoming part of the game. Some people just haven't realized yet that this is a theme park and it needs good attractions. A shuttle Jellyfish is definitely a worse attraction than a Tier 6 Jellyfish.
And that it's a Promo ship - I guess I could have seen it as an Event ship, too, but at least it fits into the "oddball ship that probably aren't commonly under a Starfleet captain's command" category that lockbox/promo ships used to fall under.
And yeah, these ships pay the bills. Other stuff also pays the bills, but these are big money-makers.
Some people claim that it would be better if they were in the C-Store. But just to put things into perspective, there is a way to "buy" ships like this instead of gambling for them, provided they end up in the Exchange at all.
If we assume the ship costs 1.5 Billion EC (more likely 1.2 Billion EC in the long run) on the Exchange (can't go higher), and you get 4,000,000 EC per Master Key, you would need 375 Master Keys. Buying the Master Keys at full price (125 Zen per key) that is 46.875 Zen. Buying Zen at a price of 10 US $ per 1,000 Zen, that is 469 US $.
I think currently the exchange rate for Master Keys is better than 4,000,000 EC, and of course keys and Zen are often on sale (plus you get these bonus Zen for buying large packages), Promo ships are more around 1.2 Billion EC rather than 1.5 Bilion EC, so this is an upper bound for the cost.
If you use Promo Boxes, the deal is better, even outside sales, at 322 US $ (if a Promo Box gives you 14,000,000 EC on the Exchange, the rate is often better.)
Buying Promo Boxes on sale, with only 1.2 Billion Ec for the ship, you'd need 20,572 Zen, if you bought the Zen on sale, that's about 179 US $. (not accounting for bonus Zen from bigger Zen boxes, and still assuming 14 Million EC per Promo Boxes).
So if Cryptic were to put them at the C-Store, the prize would easily something between 20,000 to 47.000 Zen. But I don't know if they would sell at that price. People were already mad about the Mudd Market prices for the Vizier. But the lockbox mechanic are good hiding the possible price from players.
Which is why I can understand quite well if people think lockbox gambling mechanics are exploitative. However, until you can actually find a better business model for Cryptic, these mechanics are going to stay. And I am not talking in the "I believe there is a better way" or "you must do it differently or you're a dirty Ferengi", I mean a business model that you can explain in detail with not just arguments, but marketing numbers that validate or at least strongly support your claims. Which you probably can't unless you happen to already run an MMO with a different, better/fairer/less abusive system in a similar market with a similar target audience.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The Launcher says 'Command Spock's Jellyfish Infinity R&D Promotion'.
I guess then, 'I Command the Infinity R&D Promotion to award me Spock's Jellyfish'.
There, easily done.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Spend an average of US $45 to US $60 a month on this game. Proof? I'll happily post a pic of the stacks of Perfect World cards I've purchased or a snapshot of my transactions via ARC.
No proof necessary, I believe you. Thank you for your contributions.
So, there's your "keeping the game alive" remark refuted. At least in my case. I cannot speak for others. But I am pretty sure I'm not the only person pumping cash into this game.
You're not the only person. But you need to understand that there are people that have poured more money into one lock box then even you have spent since you have been playing. Gambling addiction gets people to spend crazy amounts of money and the sad truth is that these types of players are the 'whales' that keep games like this moving along. It's not Cryptic doing it necessarily, this has been the lynch pin of Free to Play games from day one. It's not my opinion, I didn't develop the methodology and rather we like it or not.. it's a fact.
Also, searching my posts might reveal maybe one other time I've complained about promo ships. I usually have enough resources and IRL cash available I can simply buy one off the Exchange.
My post was addressed at people that complain over and over about Promo ships. If this line is true then why exactly do you assume I am talking about you? Honestly? I have no idea who you are.. why would you feel the need to defend yourself against me if clearly I am not talking about you?
You might be in danger of losing your Expert Forum Warrior Status by posting something like this. Seeings how you're so totally wrong about me.
Not sure what 'expert' status you're referring to. I'm just a guy that plays the game and sometimes tries to help people with build stuff. Perhaps you should ease back a little since we already established I'm not talking about you.
The players like you who put a steady supply of monthly cash into the game are rare. Obviously, you're not insignificant to the bottom line, but for every one of you there are hundreds who play for free. Your contribution matters, but the 'whales' are the real source of revenue.
I won't say anymore on the topic since people are starting to get offended and the topic is simply not debatable. If you read up on how free to play games work, you'll find all the answers you need.
These promo boxes are a 'necessary evil' rather any of us like it or not. Complaining about them is pointless, they're not going anywhere. I have spent a fair share of cash myself since 2014, but I know that my contribution though significant in dollar amount is peanuts compared to even you, much less to someone that keeps swiping that credit card until they get an Enterprise.
No, thanks. I'll pass. Willfully and with malice aforethought placing this ship(?) behind a less than 0.00001% chance to acquire it shows just how out of touch Sales and Marketing at Cryptic is with both their potential and current customers.
Couple this to the fact you made a Science shuttle into some sort of Pilot based escort without any Science abilities shows just how out of touch the Dev Team is with both Star Trek and the playerbase. It is at best a one man starship or shuttle. Which is canon. Go watch the bloody film next time before you so proudly display your complete lack of knowledge of Star Trek in such an obvious and distressing manner.
Had you put the thing into the Lobi Store, I might have purchased it. But since you're attempting another pass at my wallet this way, the digital version of Three Card Monty, I would not own this ship on a dare.
What special "science" abilities did this ship use in the film exactly? As I recall, Spock referred to it as "our fastest ship" only - commissioned by the Vulcan Science Academy, which is not a definite indication of what kind of ship it is. No mention whatsoever as a "science" ship.
I'd have to watch the movie, at least that part of it again, but I follow the "logic" here.
It makes sense (at least to me) to take some liberty with these ships to incorporate them into a game. I'm not going to go ape TRIBBLE because it isn't a 100% direct copy from canon in every detail. There is hardly any content in this game designed for shuttles or "1 man ships". That alone makes it more desirable.
I agree here too, mostly. I don't mind it being an in-game normal ship compared to perhaps it's more canonical shuttle-type. If it is entering the game let it be used with accessibility in the best way, but "best" is subjective & often times with Cryptic meaning exclusive which I'm just not a fan of.
As for "placing it behind a a less than 0.00001% chance to acquire it", if you buy it off the exchange, your chance of getting it is 100%. You may not like the EC price, but you're still guaranteed to get it with zero gambling involved.
Not a fan at all of the unregulated gambling in STO, but it is what it is currently. Very true about buying it off the Exchange, if one is there. Simply save-up & buy or don't buy. It takes out the guess work that way. lol
Here are the prices of the ship in question direct from Exchange this morning:
So based on that, I ran some calculations on how long it would take to acquire the ship without paying money to the C-Store:
The current sale price of Lockbox keys is 4980000, which would require 262 keys to afford the cheapest box from the above list.
262 keys X 125 C-Points=32750 C-Points.
At the going rate of 479 Dilithium per C-Point, that's 15687250 Dilithium.
Refining Dilithium at a rate of 8000 per day takes 5.5 years to earn enough C-Points>Lockbox Keys to buy this ship.
I also ran the figures for a Lifetimer stipend, it also takes 5.5 years to earn the C-Points necessary.
So "a little bit of time" is just mularkey!
In Star Trek Online, numbers crunch the player!
And honestly, look at the limited number of ships, only six players are getting one, nobody else will.
So the drop rate wasn't that high.
And for a game which was honest about their drop rates, see here:
It's the 4* item everyone wants, yet because the players know the drop rate is so low, they actively refuse to pay for these items and the game is solely sustained by money bunkers spending like 1000 each on something else each weekend.
To be honest, I suspect Star Trek Online is sustained solely on those who pay cash money for Lockbox keys, after all, they don't appear from nowhere, the C-Store has to generate them. And that's what I included in "other C-Store items"
Brutal honesty, who said I wanted this ship in the first place?
There are lots more cost effective science ships to obtain and I'm going to chase after the one that is simply an ego boosting device.
It's the player that wins, not the ship they fly........
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Here are the prices of the ship in question direct from Exchange this morning:
So based on that, I ran some calculations on how long it would take to acquire the ship without paying money to the C-Store:
The current sale price of Lockbox keys is 4980000, which would require 262 keys to afford the cheapest box from the above list.
262 keys X 125 C-Points=32750 C-Points.
At the going rate of 479 Dilithium per C-Point, that's 15687250 Dilithium.
Refining Dilithium at a rate of 8000 per day takes 5.5 years to earn enough C-Points>Lockbox Keys to buy this ship.
I also ran the figures for a Lifetimer stipend, it also takes 5.5 years to earn the C-Points necessary.
So "a little bit of time" is just mularkey!
In Star Trek Online, numbers crunch the player!
And honestly, look at the limited number of ships, only six players are getting one, nobody else will.
So the drop rate wasn't that high.
And for a game which was honest about their drop rates, see here:
It's the 4* item everyone wants, yet because the players know the drop rate is so low, they actively refuse to pay for these items and the game is solely sustained by money bunkers spending like 1000 each on something else each weekend.
To be honest, I suspect Star Trek Online is sustained solely on those who pay cash money for Lockbox keys, after all, they don't appear from nowhere, the C-Store has to generate them. And that's what I included in "other C-Store items"
Brutal honesty, who said I wanted this ship in the first place?
There are lots more cost effective science ships to obtain and I'm going to chase after the one that is simply an ego boosting device.
It's the player that wins, not the ship they fly........
Yeah, math matters, it might not tell you what you want to hear but it will be honest about things.
It's pretty bad when over a third of your game Roadmap just includes Promotion Ships.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So based on that, I ran some calculations on how long it would take to acquire the ship without paying money to the C-Store:
The current sale price of Lockbox keys is 4980000, which would require 262 keys to afford the cheapest box from the above list.
262 keys X 125 C-Points=32750 C-Points.
At the going rate of 479 Dilithium per C-Point, that's 15687250 Dilithium.
Refining Dilithium at a rate of 8000 per day takes 5.5 years to earn enough C-Points>Lockbox Keys to buy this ship.
I also ran the figures for a Lifetimer stipend, it also takes 5.5 years to earn the C-Points necessary.
So "a little bit of time" is just mularkey!
In Star Trek Online, numbers crunch the player!
1. You're using the prices on day one.. everyone knows that's the time when the ship is most expensive.
2. As said above, you're talking about time based on one single character. I am at the low side of the 'grinding' spectrum with 10, most people I know that buy these ships have 20 or more characters. When you have multiple alts you can build up money far faster. These alts require a few minutes of play each per day, log in.. do admiralty, maybe do some Doff'ing.. refine 8k Dilithium.. done.
3. There are many other ways of making EC in the game that you didn't even touch upon. Farming/Selling Contraband, Upgrade Kits, all kinds of ways that are quick and easy.
You can call it 'mularky' all you want, but I do this stuff all the time, have been for years. So do many many others.. but if you want to call B.S. on something you don't even understand..that's fine. I play sometimes as little as 30min in a day, I have Billions of EC worth of ships, traits and gear.. and compared to some, I suck at this.
It's funny how so many here just respond with such hostility simply because they don't understand. I don't really get it, but if it makes you feel better then fair enough. The best part of Star Trek Online is the incredibly generous free to play model, it's set up in a way that allows for you to acquire anything you want with a minimal amount of effort.
No, thanks. I'll pass. Willfully and with malice aforethought placing this ship(?) behind a less than 0.00001% chance to acquire it shows just how out of touch Sales and Marketing at Cryptic is with both their potential and current customers.
Actually it's on average about a 1.0% chance. That's about 100,000x more likely to happen than you're saying it is.
It's always the same tired lot.. if you guys spent as much time building up your in game resources as you do complaining you would have everything you could ever want and more.
I know right? If the going price of a ship is X, then they'd better save up that amount. Better yet, they could save double or triple that and use it as a kind of in-game brokerage account through which they could make shrewd investments and well timed buying and selling to generate EVEN MORE EC. Oh well, I guess it's just easier to point the finger at the so-called "comic book guys" and blame them. Whoever they are.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I know right? If the going price of a ship is X, then they'd better save up that amount. Better yet, they could save double or triple that and use it as a kind of in-game brokerage account through which they could make shrewd investments and well timed buying and selling to generate EVEN MORE EC. Oh well, I guess it's just easier to point the finger at the so-called "comic book guys" and blame them. Whoever they are.
That math assumes ONE toon. If you refine 8k on 6 toon...guess what, that amount is under a year. 12 toons... 6 months. 30 toons and under 3 months. There you go...3 months to get the resources for a promo ship if you wanna.
I've got aroundabout six characters, but to be honest, I wouldn't waste all my Dilithium on an single character ship that's simply a glorified status symbol, there's a lot more practical uses for this resource and in my specific case, since our Fleet is working towards their T5 upgrades, that's where my Dil is going in the future.
To be brutally honest, it's all about cost vs value and in my personal opinion, the cost is too high to justify this ship.
And I once considered getting one of the T6 Jem'Hadar strike ships before dismissing the idea as foolish once I saw the costs.
For context, I only need the console from the Strike Ship, because it's the one piece missing from my Jem'Hadar console set and as far as I know, the console is not obtainable on it's own.
The responses when I made that offhand comment were quite incredulous to read, everyone assumed I wanted the ship for Egotistic reasons, to fly around it to make other players jealous, they really didn't understand the practical reason for wanting the ship. For the record, I wasn't going to use it anyway ingame, so nobody would ever see me flying around in it.
I'm more into account unlocks anyway, single ship unlocks don't motivate me so much, the rarer they are, the less I'm interested in them. In this case, since it's the rarest kind of ship, it's the second least interesting one.
Lifetime rates however, that's fixed, since the stipend will only grant 500 c-points per month, so nothing can be done to speed that up if intending to acquire one of these ships free2play.
The prices are set by the players, because they know this ship is rare, they're not likely to be inclined to drop their prices below what is the agreed value.
And if someone does sell low, a reseller will instantly buy it and repost it for the agreed price, just to make their profit/keep the price fixed,
I'm uncertain why anyone would create so many characters, 12 is about the numeric maximum, 3classesX4 Factions.
If they're getting up around 20 or 30 characters, that's when it's time to step back from the game.
I knew one STO player who had a genuine problem with addiction, they'd create character after character, then do every bit of content when it was released on every single one of them!
And then berate Cryptic intensely for "forcing them to play new content".
If it's so easy to get "anything I want in this game" with EC, why can't I acquire any Cardassian Bridge Officers with Superior Peak Health?
And I did try for months before giving up out of frustration.
Nor can I buy the one Breen ship account unlock I missed by accident.
There are limits to what EC can get you and in these cases, it can't!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I've got aroundabout six characters, but to be honest, I wouldn't waste all my Dilithium on an single character ship that's simply a glorified status symbol, there's a lot more practical uses for this resource and in my specific case, since our Fleet is working towards their T5 upgrades, that's where my Dil is going in the future.
Perfectly reasonable, no one would expect you to pour all your assets into something when you need them for something more benificial to you. The great thing about these ships is that no one needs any of them, they're just nice to have if you feel the price is worth it.
To be brutally honest, it's all about cost vs value and in my personal opinion, the cost is too high to justify this ship.
Again, perfectly reasonable.. and I agree on this. To me, this ship is not worth it, to someone else perhaps it is. The Discovery Constitution was worth it to me, so I dumped the bulk of my resources at the time to get one. Even as a single character ship, I feel it was worth it for me, but everyone is different.
The responses when I made that offhand comment were quite incredulous to read, everyone assumed I wanted the ship for Egotistic reasons, to fly around it to make other players jealous, they really didn't understand the practical reason for wanting the ship. For the record, I wasn't going to use it anyway ingame, so nobody would ever see me flying around in it.
Not sure who exactly you are referring to, but my comments to you were nothing more then addressing the argument of how obtainable these ships actually are. The exact reason you want or don't want this ship are purely yours and yours alone. I assume nothing when it comes to that.
I'm more into account unlocks anyway, single ship unlocks don't motivate me so much, the rarer they are, the less I'm interested in them. In this case, since it's the rarest kind of ship, it's the second least interesting one.
I have to think everyone would prefer account wide ships, these ships are the rare 'special exception' for when something comes along that you feel you must have. This ship obviously, is not that for you.. it's not for me either. The Discovery Constitution was one for me.. and perhaps maybe the Tzenkethi Tzen-Tar still debating on if I am going to buy one of those. This ship? Not so much.
The prices are set by the players, because they know this ship is rare, they're not likely to be inclined to drop their prices below what is the agreed value.
And if someone does sell low, a reseller will instantly buy it and repost it for the agreed price, just to make their profit/keep the price fixed,
This is actually a common misconception. The idea that people are just inflating these to some arbitrary number based on nothing but greed, but it's actually not true. On average, these ships are expensive to acquire. Rather you buy R&D Packs with real money or with EC there is an average number of boxes that people open to get the ships. Some people have better luck, some worse.. but the prices you see on the exchange are a direct reflection of the cost put into acquiring the ship. Yes, occasionally there is a lucky person that gets the ship on the first box and makes a mint, but most people pay a considerable amount to get the ship initially. They're still making a profit obviously, but not as much as many people think. They're expensive to acquire no matter what method you use.
I'm uncertain why anyone would create so many characters, 12 is about the numeric maximum, 3classesX4 Factions.
If they're getting up around 20 or 30 characters, that's when it's time to step back from the game.
I knew one STO player who had a genuine problem with addiction, they'd create character after character, then do every bit of content when it was released on every single one of them!
And then berate Cryptic intensely for "forcing them to play new content".
Most create that many for farming. Unless you have an insane amount of time, most of those characters are not active for much other then admiralty and refining Dilithium. I completely agree on the last part that it's silly that people treat this like it's cryptic 'forcing them to play.' It's actually the opposite, the fact that they allow this makes it easier for people who want to put in the time to get the things they want with a minimum amount of real word money (or even none.) It's actually commendable on their part and part of their generous F2P model.
If it's so easy to get "anything I want in this game" with EC, why can't I acquire any Cardassian Bridge Officers with Superior Peak Health?
And I did try for months before giving up out of frustration.
Nor can I buy the one Breen ship account unlock I missed by accident.
There are limits to what EC can get you and in these cases, it can't!
When we say it's easy to 'get anything you want' it should be obvious we're talking about things that actually exist in the game or can be acquired by trade. The Breen Ship for example, can't be sold to you by another player it has to be through the Phoenix Box. That's something you would have to address with Cryptic but when it comes to things that exist in the game that are trade-able, it can all be acquired with some time and effort. How much time varies from player to player.
Comments
It's C-Store ships+other C-Store items sales that keep the game alive, I seriously doubt promo ships have anything to do with it.
The R&D promo limited time event that only happens fairly infrequently, if the game depended on that to pay the bills, we'd have no game!
ModeSwitchBrutalHonesty:
Players should have better things to do then farm virtual currency just to buy fancy ships/items at unrealistic prices.
A game is meant to be played casually and for fun, if the players practically living in the game to earn a virtual paycheck (metaphorically speaking), then it's time to set limits on how much the game is played, it's not meant to be an emulation of earning wages in real life!
To be direct, I find the idea of anyone earning the about of EC necessary to buy one of these limited time ships in the 30seconds-1 minute it takes to write one of these responses comedically amusing.
And I needed a good laugh today.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Unfortunately, that's completely backwards. The R&D Promo's and Lockboxes are the 'cash cows' that keep the game alive.
Love it or hate it.. it's irrelevant because it won't change anything. People still make post after post complaining about it which is a complete waste of time. That time is better spent actually playing the game.
It's not hard to earn this stuff in game, just takes a little time.
"Let them eat their cake"
Rather appropriate term considering it is in whale packaging and some whales eat squids....
Been here since 2012, son. Spend an average of US $45 to US $60 a month on this game. Proof? I'll happily post a pic of the stacks of Perfect World cards I've purchased or a snapshot of my transactions via ARC.
So, there's your "keeping the game alive" remark refuted. At least in my case. I cannot speak for others. But I am pretty sure I'm not the only person pumping cash into this game.
Also, searching my posts might reveal maybe one other time I've complained about promo ships. I usually have enough resources and IRL cash available I can simply buy one off the Exchange.
You might be in danger of losing your Expert Forum Warrior Status by posting something like this. Seeings how you're so totally wrong about me.
I get the impression it was not a science ship at all from the movie dialog, and nothing done with the ship gives any indication that it is anything except an especially fast ship that can carry a person and a small amount of equipment like the Red Matter container.
In fact, all the spinning stuff correlates rather well with the Orion Intruder which used a "dynamic field warp" which is supposed to be especially fast (though a fuel guzzler in the process) so Spock's statement about taking the fastest ship the institute had means it is probably literally that, a fast courier or scout (think stormchaser sportscar that pinpoints a tornado's position instead of the science van it locates the tornados for, to use a realworld example) or even an engine testbed ship.
On the other hand the game has already put out a lot of little tactical scouts and whatnot so it is good that they are doing at least something new for science.
Realistically, the Vulcan Science Vessel we got last Anniversary should have been a shuttle, too.
In the end, "realism" concerns went already out of the window with the Galaxy-X becoming part of the game. Some people just haven't realized yet that this is a theme park and it needs good attractions. A shuttle Jellyfish is definitely a worse attraction than a Tier 6 Jellyfish.
And that it's a Promo ship - I guess I could have seen it as an Event ship, too, but at least it fits into the "oddball ship that probably aren't commonly under a Starfleet captain's command" category that lockbox/promo ships used to fall under.
And yeah, these ships pay the bills. Other stuff also pays the bills, but these are big money-makers.
Some people claim that it would be better if they were in the C-Store. But just to put things into perspective, there is a way to "buy" ships like this instead of gambling for them, provided they end up in the Exchange at all.
If we assume the ship costs 1.5 Billion EC (more likely 1.2 Billion EC in the long run) on the Exchange (can't go higher), and you get 4,000,000 EC per Master Key, you would need 375 Master Keys. Buying the Master Keys at full price (125 Zen per key) that is 46.875 Zen. Buying Zen at a price of 10 US $ per 1,000 Zen, that is 469 US $.
I think currently the exchange rate for Master Keys is better than 4,000,000 EC, and of course keys and Zen are often on sale (plus you get these bonus Zen for buying large packages), Promo ships are more around 1.2 Billion EC rather than 1.5 Bilion EC, so this is an upper bound for the cost.
If you use Promo Boxes, the deal is better, even outside sales, at 322 US $ (if a Promo Box gives you 14,000,000 EC on the Exchange, the rate is often better.)
Buying Promo Boxes on sale, with only 1.2 Billion Ec for the ship, you'd need 20,572 Zen, if you bought the Zen on sale, that's about 179 US $. (not accounting for bonus Zen from bigger Zen boxes, and still assuming 14 Million EC per Promo Boxes).
So if Cryptic were to put them at the C-Store, the prize would easily something between 20,000 to 47.000 Zen. But I don't know if they would sell at that price. People were already mad about the Mudd Market prices for the Vizier. But the lockbox mechanic are good hiding the possible price from players.
Which is why I can understand quite well if people think lockbox gambling mechanics are exploitative. However, until you can actually find a better business model for Cryptic, these mechanics are going to stay. And I am not talking in the "I believe there is a better way" or "you must do it differently or you're a dirty Ferengi", I mean a business model that you can explain in detail with not just arguments, but marketing numbers that validate or at least strongly support your claims. Which you probably can't unless you happen to already run an MMO with a different, better/fairer/less abusive system in a similar market with a similar target audience.
I guess then, 'I Command the Infinity R&D Promotion to award me Spock's Jellyfish'.
There, easily done.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm not your son. My Dad doesn't play this game.
No proof necessary, I believe you. Thank you for your contributions.
You're not the only person. But you need to understand that there are people that have poured more money into one lock box then even you have spent since you have been playing. Gambling addiction gets people to spend crazy amounts of money and the sad truth is that these types of players are the 'whales' that keep games like this moving along. It's not Cryptic doing it necessarily, this has been the lynch pin of Free to Play games from day one. It's not my opinion, I didn't develop the methodology and rather we like it or not.. it's a fact.
My post was addressed at people that complain over and over about Promo ships. If this line is true then why exactly do you assume I am talking about you? Honestly? I have no idea who you are.. why would you feel the need to defend yourself against me if clearly I am not talking about you?
Not sure what 'expert' status you're referring to. I'm just a guy that plays the game and sometimes tries to help people with build stuff. Perhaps you should ease back a little since we already established I'm not talking about you.
The players like you who put a steady supply of monthly cash into the game are rare. Obviously, you're not insignificant to the bottom line, but for every one of you there are hundreds who play for free. Your contribution matters, but the 'whales' are the real source of revenue.
I won't say anymore on the topic since people are starting to get offended and the topic is simply not debatable. If you read up on how free to play games work, you'll find all the answers you need.
These promo boxes are a 'necessary evil' rather any of us like it or not. Complaining about them is pointless, they're not going anywhere. I have spent a fair share of cash myself since 2014, but I know that my contribution though significant in dollar amount is peanuts compared to even you, much less to someone that keeps swiping that credit card until they get an Enterprise.
So based on that, I ran some calculations on how long it would take to acquire the ship without paying money to the C-Store:
The current sale price of Lockbox keys is 4980000, which would require 262 keys to afford the cheapest box from the above list.
262 keys X 125 C-Points=32750 C-Points.
At the going rate of 479 Dilithium per C-Point, that's 15687250 Dilithium.
Refining Dilithium at a rate of 8000 per day takes 5.5 years to earn enough C-Points>Lockbox Keys to buy this ship.
I also ran the figures for a Lifetimer stipend, it also takes 5.5 years to earn the C-Points necessary.
So "a little bit of time" is just mularkey!
In Star Trek Online, numbers crunch the player!
And honestly, look at the limited number of ships, only six players are getting one, nobody else will.
So the drop rate wasn't that high.
And for a game which was honest about their drop rates, see here:
It's the 4* item everyone wants, yet because the players know the drop rate is so low, they actively refuse to pay for these items and the game is solely sustained by money bunkers spending like 1000 each on something else each weekend.
To be honest, I suspect Star Trek Online is sustained solely on those who pay cash money for Lockbox keys, after all, they don't appear from nowhere, the C-Store has to generate them. And that's what I included in "other C-Store items"
Brutal honesty, who said I wanted this ship in the first place?
There are lots more cost effective science ships to obtain and I'm going to chase after the one that is simply an ego boosting device.
It's the player that wins, not the ship they fly........
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Yeah, math matters, it might not tell you what you want to hear but it will be honest about things.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
1. You're using the prices on day one.. everyone knows that's the time when the ship is most expensive.
2. As said above, you're talking about time based on one single character. I am at the low side of the 'grinding' spectrum with 10, most people I know that buy these ships have 20 or more characters. When you have multiple alts you can build up money far faster. These alts require a few minutes of play each per day, log in.. do admiralty, maybe do some Doff'ing.. refine 8k Dilithium.. done.
3. There are many other ways of making EC in the game that you didn't even touch upon. Farming/Selling Contraband, Upgrade Kits, all kinds of ways that are quick and easy.
You can call it 'mularky' all you want, but I do this stuff all the time, have been for years. So do many many others.. but if you want to call B.S. on something you don't even understand..that's fine. I play sometimes as little as 30min in a day, I have Billions of EC worth of ships, traits and gear.. and compared to some, I suck at this.
It's funny how so many here just respond with such hostility simply because they don't understand. I don't really get it, but if it makes you feel better then fair enough. The best part of Star Trek Online is the incredibly generous free to play model, it's set up in a way that allows for you to acquire anything you want with a minimal amount of effort.
Actually it's on average about a 1.0% chance. That's about 100,000x more likely to happen than you're saying it is.
I know right? If the going price of a ship is X, then they'd better save up that amount. Better yet, they could save double or triple that and use it as a kind of in-game brokerage account through which they could make shrewd investments and well timed buying and selling to generate EVEN MORE EC. Oh well, I guess it's just easier to point the finger at the so-called "comic book guys" and blame them. Whoever they are.
Thank you!
Good to know at least one person understands.
I've got aroundabout six characters, but to be honest, I wouldn't waste all my Dilithium on an single character ship that's simply a glorified status symbol, there's a lot more practical uses for this resource and in my specific case, since our Fleet is working towards their T5 upgrades, that's where my Dil is going in the future.
To be brutally honest, it's all about cost vs value and in my personal opinion, the cost is too high to justify this ship.
And I once considered getting one of the T6 Jem'Hadar strike ships before dismissing the idea as foolish once I saw the costs.
For context, I only need the console from the Strike Ship, because it's the one piece missing from my Jem'Hadar console set and as far as I know, the console is not obtainable on it's own.
The responses when I made that offhand comment were quite incredulous to read, everyone assumed I wanted the ship for Egotistic reasons, to fly around it to make other players jealous, they really didn't understand the practical reason for wanting the ship. For the record, I wasn't going to use it anyway ingame, so nobody would ever see me flying around in it.
I'm more into account unlocks anyway, single ship unlocks don't motivate me so much, the rarer they are, the less I'm interested in them. In this case, since it's the rarest kind of ship, it's the second least interesting one.
Lifetime rates however, that's fixed, since the stipend will only grant 500 c-points per month, so nothing can be done to speed that up if intending to acquire one of these ships free2play.
The prices are set by the players, because they know this ship is rare, they're not likely to be inclined to drop their prices below what is the agreed value.
And if someone does sell low, a reseller will instantly buy it and repost it for the agreed price, just to make their profit/keep the price fixed,
I'm uncertain why anyone would create so many characters, 12 is about the numeric maximum, 3classesX4 Factions.
If they're getting up around 20 or 30 characters, that's when it's time to step back from the game.
I knew one STO player who had a genuine problem with addiction, they'd create character after character, then do every bit of content when it was released on every single one of them!
And then berate Cryptic intensely for "forcing them to play new content".
If it's so easy to get "anything I want in this game" with EC, why can't I acquire any Cardassian Bridge Officers with Superior Peak Health?
And I did try for months before giving up out of frustration.
Nor can I buy the one Breen ship account unlock I missed by accident.
There are limits to what EC can get you and in these cases, it can't!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Perfectly reasonable, no one would expect you to pour all your assets into something when you need them for something more benificial to you. The great thing about these ships is that no one needs any of them, they're just nice to have if you feel the price is worth it.
Again, perfectly reasonable.. and I agree on this. To me, this ship is not worth it, to someone else perhaps it is. The Discovery Constitution was worth it to me, so I dumped the bulk of my resources at the time to get one. Even as a single character ship, I feel it was worth it for me, but everyone is different.
Not sure who exactly you are referring to, but my comments to you were nothing more then addressing the argument of how obtainable these ships actually are. The exact reason you want or don't want this ship are purely yours and yours alone. I assume nothing when it comes to that.
I have to think everyone would prefer account wide ships, these ships are the rare 'special exception' for when something comes along that you feel you must have. This ship obviously, is not that for you.. it's not for me either. The Discovery Constitution was one for me.. and perhaps maybe the Tzenkethi Tzen-Tar still debating on if I am going to buy one of those. This ship? Not so much.
This is actually a common misconception. The idea that people are just inflating these to some arbitrary number based on nothing but greed, but it's actually not true. On average, these ships are expensive to acquire. Rather you buy R&D Packs with real money or with EC there is an average number of boxes that people open to get the ships. Some people have better luck, some worse.. but the prices you see on the exchange are a direct reflection of the cost put into acquiring the ship. Yes, occasionally there is a lucky person that gets the ship on the first box and makes a mint, but most people pay a considerable amount to get the ship initially. They're still making a profit obviously, but not as much as many people think. They're expensive to acquire no matter what method you use.
Most create that many for farming. Unless you have an insane amount of time, most of those characters are not active for much other then admiralty and refining Dilithium. I completely agree on the last part that it's silly that people treat this like it's cryptic 'forcing them to play.' It's actually the opposite, the fact that they allow this makes it easier for people who want to put in the time to get the things they want with a minimum amount of real word money (or even none.) It's actually commendable on their part and part of their generous F2P model.
When we say it's easy to 'get anything you want' it should be obvious we're talking about things that actually exist in the game or can be acquired by trade. The Breen Ship for example, can't be sold to you by another player it has to be through the Phoenix Box. That's something you would have to address with Cryptic but when it comes to things that exist in the game that are trade-able, it can all be acquired with some time and effort. How much time varies from player to player.