PSA: Unannounced Ship XP Changes - No Need To Panic

salazarraze
salazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
Hi guys. I played SB1 and Argala today. You no longer get ship XP at the time you kill a ship. You now instead get a large chunk of XP at the time of warping out of SB1 and Argala even if it's only 4/5 in Argala. Argala 4/5 is dead. Per a dev and other testers, you now get your xp all at once upon warping out instead of per kill.The reason is apparently because the old way of getting ship xp per kill caused lag. I checked the most recent patch notes and this wasn't mentioned at all so I wanted to make everyone aware of this. Thanks.

For those interested, upon completing SB1, I got a large chunk of XP along with my marks that pushed me up to T1 with 1406 xp remaining to hit T2. Upon completing Argala, I got another large chunk of XP to get me to T2 with 2967 xp remaining to hit T3.
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Comments

  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,893 Arc User
    Interesting, thanks for the heads up.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • peterconnorfirst
    peterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    Oh. Thanks for info OP.
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  • echatty
    echatty Member Posts: 5,719 Arc User
    Thank you very much for the information.

    If getting the exp after helps keep lag down, I'm all for it.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • davefenestrator
    davefenestrator Member Posts: 9,790 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    echatty wrote: »
    Thank you very much for the information.

    If getting the exp after helps keep lag down, I'm all for it.

    Me too :) . It will also make the screen a tiny bit less cluttered.

    It makes sense that reducing the number of messages between the clients and server would help, and it's good that Cryptic has people doing the analysis to find slowdowns like that.
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    You see, they were only doing it for our benefit by not providing ship XP before in everything. It was our own greediness that was causing the current lag. ;)

    This is a 'Norman' conundrum. 'You say providing individual kill XP was causing the lag, but you used to provide individual kill XP that did not cause lag. 'Illogical! Illogical! Please explain! You are human. Only humans can explain their behavior! Please explain!' :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • davefenestrator
    davefenestrator Member Posts: 9,790 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    You see, they were only doing it for our benefit by not providing ship XP before in everything. It was our own greediness that was causing the current lag. ;)

    This is a 'Norman' conundrum. 'You say providing individual kill XP was causing the lag, but you used to provide individual kill XP that did not cause lag. 'Illogical! Illogical! Please explain! You are human. Only humans can explain their behavior! Please explain!' :)

    Nope, not necessarily a contradiction.

    Let's say there were 10 messages per second, one of them being XP to one of the clients.

    Now after adding more "stuff" (powers, traits, consoles, ...) there are 20 messages per second, still one of them being XP. And now there are too many messages, with every message over 15 adding a little lag. The XP message used to be harmless, but now removing it will lessen the lag a bit.

    Coding has situations like this all the time, where scaling up load or traffic beyond some tipping point causes non-linear slowdowns. I had a database query jump from under a second to 10+ seconds when the number of rows in a table grew by about 10%, because one of the columns needed to be indexed.
  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,893 Arc User
    Just leveled a ship in Argala using the 4/5 method.. can confirm it still works fine.

    It works just as the OP said, you get the bulk XP when you warp out. Most players shouldn't really notice the change, and if it helps cut lag then sounds like a good idea to me.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • xyquarze
    xyquarze Member Posts: 2,091 Arc User
    Kudos, thanks and props to salazarre for the info.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • tousseau
    tousseau Member Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    Since T6 now level with you, but couldn't themselves be leveled after a certain point... I wonder if in the background, the program was still trying to give the ships XP, but couldn't (if that made any sense at all... )
  • xyquarze
    xyquarze Member Posts: 2,091 Arc User
    It made sense. But I think non-level-50 toons with leveling T6 ships aren't a major percentage of players in TFOs.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • meimeitoo
    meimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    Hi guys. I played SB1 and Argala today. You no longer get ship XP at the time you kill a ship. You now instead get a large chunk of XP at the time of warping out of SB1 and Argala even if it's only 4/5 in Argala. Argala 4/5 is dead. Per a dev and other testers, you now get your xp all at once upon warping out instead of per kill.The reason is apparently because the old way of getting ship xp per kill caused lag. I checked the most recent patch notes and this wasn't mentioned at all so I wanted to make everyone aware of this. Thanks.

    For those interested, upon completing SB1, I got a large chunk of XP along with my marks that pushed me up to T1 with 1406 xp remaining to hit T2. Upon completing Argala, I got another large chunk of XP to get me to T2 with 2967 xp remaining to hit T3.

    Yes, I noticed that, yesterday, when leveling up several new ships at Argala. Nothing really changed materially. The XP, indeed, is now added upon warp-out.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • phoenixc#0738
    phoenixc#0738 Member Posts: 4,210 Arc User
    The lag does seem to be noticeably less (I did not get a single stutter and didn't have to hit any keys several times to get abilites to fire like sometimes happens). I did not really notice the lack of per-ship xp notices, but then I often do not notice them anyway when I am focused on the fight. Definately a winning change.
  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,893 Arc User
    The lag does seem to be noticeably less (I did not get a single stutter and didn't have to hit any keys several times to get abilites to fire like sometimes happens). I did not really notice the lack of per-ship xp notices, but then I often do not notice them anyway when I am focused on the fight. Definately a winning change.

    It's been a lot better for me overall as well. The exception is the Tholian Red Alert which is still just too much lag to be enjoyable.

    Overall though, the change has definitely helped for me.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    I had no lag in the Tholian Red Alert, it just ends too quickly now. I had to do it 4 times to complete a Hard Endeavor of 500k Disruptor Damage, albeit on Phaser Ship with two Beam Arrays replaced with Fleet Disruptor Arrays for the Endeavor.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,893 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    ltminns wrote: »
    I had no lag in the Tholian Red Alert, it just ends too quickly now. I had to do it 4 times to complete a Hard Endeavor of 500k Disruptor Damage, albeit on Phaser Ship with two Beam Arrays replaced with Fleet Disruptor Arrays for the Endeavor.

    Tholian Alert was smooth as silk yesterday.. today it was a lag fest (for me.) Maybe just bad timing, I'll try again later. Thanks for the heads up.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • xyquarze
    xyquarze Member Posts: 2,091 Arc User
    Today generally was a lag fest for me, albeit on Risa.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • davefenestrator
    davefenestrator Member Posts: 9,790 Arc User
    xyquarze wrote: »
    Today generally was a lag fest for me, albeit on Risa.

    Same for me in the Tholian Red Alert.

  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    You know, just saying 'No need to panic' just causes that. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • meimeitoo
    meimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    You know, just saying 'No need to panic' just causes that. ;)


    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • postagepaid
    postagepaid Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    Do the argala XP gains still vary pretty wildly between kazon and the other factions?
  • tvalavulcan
    tvalavulcan Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    Thanks for the info. I noticed it in Argala and came here to see what was going on.
  • smooshy#7462
    smooshy#7462 Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    You know, just saying 'No need to panic' just causes that. ;)

    It's like when I think everything is just fine, and then there's an all-hands meeting at work where the bosses tell us not to be nervous.
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • postagepaid
    postagepaid Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    Random thought.

    If the updates for xp gains was causing lag then surely the updates covering the volume of visual spam would also be a contributing factor as well, specially for a group scenario with massive amounts of pewpew going on.
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    We've been saying that for years.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • ussvaliant#6064
    ussvaliant#6064 Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    Just ran several Argala's to level up the Edison and boy it was rubberbanding and putting powers into a few seconds cooldown like it was a feature of the game. This change for me has made no difference to the games performance.
    A few hours earlier I was in probably the worst zone for rubberbanding and lag (well for me besides DS9) Dyson Battlezone and that was rubberbanding fairly hard.

    Time to look at the Hud and Visual spam when using/activating powers

    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,893 Arc User
    Random thought.

    If the updates for xp gains was causing lag then surely the updates covering the volume of visual spam would also be a contributing factor as well, specially for a group scenario with massive amounts of pewpew going on.

    I am not sure if this would matter or not. What really counts for server side lag is the computations, the amount of on screen visuals are rendered mostly client side. So while that could cause lag on lower end PC's, I don't think it's a huge contributor. I get the same lag as everyone else and I am running a system that can easily handle the visuals.
    Just ran several Argala's to level up the Edison and boy it was rubberbanding and putting powers into a few seconds cooldown like it was a feature of the game. This change for me has made no difference to the games performance.
    A few hours earlier I was in probably the worst zone for rubberbanding and lag (well for me besides DS9) Dyson Battlezone and that was rubberbanding fairly hard.

    Time to look at the Hud and Visual spam when using/activating powers

    Funny thing is, I have seen a noticeable reduction in Lag overall.. but it didn't effect Argala at all. I have been using it the last few days for the usual trait grinding, and it was just as laggy as ever while the rest of the game has been mostly smooth for me. I honestly believe that NPC power usage is a huge factor, because it's FAR more laggy when fighting Hirogen then any other enemy. The only other place I have seen lag like that was the Tholian Red Alert which was just brutal.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • trekkiejedigirl#9564
    trekkiejedigirl#9564 Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    Yea tanks OP for the info. I was wondering about this myself when doing SB1 on my newest character. Sounds like the change was in the best interest of the players which is a good thing.
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    I was in Argala quite a bit yesterday and had no lag.

    What I did notice, while they are awarding the XP and Expertise on exit, they still show you the amount of each individual award as you kill it. So, I assume, that the display does not contribute to lag but the actual update does.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns