Option to switch PVP on/off in war zones.

questerius
questerius Member Posts: 7,784 Arc User
How about making PVP optional in warzones.
Not optional as in "you can choose to enter the warzone or not", but with a nice big fat button with which your PVP availability in warzones can be switched off or on.

Standard PVP would be switched off. That option would go a long way to remove the toxicity, ganging up and spawn camping from the war zones.
Post edited by questerius on
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
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Comments

  • questerius
    questerius Member Posts: 7,784 Arc User
    No opinions/remarks?
    Or is everyone busy writing 3 page essays on why it is a good/bad idea.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • xorv
    xorv Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    No opinions/remarks?
    Or is everyone busy writing 3 page essays on why it is a good/bad idea.

    Most likely no one is responding because it seems like a troll attempt. PvP off switches in places like Ker'rat, that's what your suggesting? Come on that's ridiculous. If you don't want PvP just don't go there, very easy.
  • questerius
    questerius Member Posts: 7,784 Arc User
    It is not a troll attempt though.
    With the endeavor system cranking out missions for borg kills the War zones places like kerrat and Otha get some more visitors.

    At the same time they are places where some of the worst behavior can be observed.
    Ganging up, spawn camping and toxic taunting can all be found.

    Gaining the ability to turn on/off PVP allows for no unwilling participants to be dragged into PVP matches while those who want the challenge can still switch on PVP.

    With PVP switched off as a standard things like spawn camping etc will no longer be viable trolling tactics.
    In fact, PVP may even gain some new followers if people can observe PVP matches without having to respawn time and time again.

    With an on/off switch for PVP in the warzones both those to covet PVP and those who avoid it win.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • warpangel
    warpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    What else would you do at Ker'rat if not PvP? It's not like the actual mission rewards anything of import.
  • questerius
    questerius Member Posts: 7,784 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    What else would you do at Ker'rat if not PvP? It's not like the actual mission rewards anything of import.

    It is a favored spot for materials grind and XP grind especially for starting characters and even without PVP there is a competitive element in beating borg and completing objectives.

    Because the spawn points are set and because many new players flock there it is also a place prone to abuse and ganking.
    Making PVP optional ESPECIALLY in war zones is beneficial for everyone.

    Those who do not wish for PVP do not have it forced upon them and those who DO wish for PVP have motivated opponents.
    Or are those who fancy PVP only interested in crossing off weaker opponents?

    Bottom line is that giving an option to avoid PVP in war zones, other than do not enter, is beneficial for everyone.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • hanover2
    hanover2 Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    Do not mess with Ker'rat. The wild west nature of it is the main appeal, and trying to make it a "nicer" place will just mess it up. I consider it part of the challenge to be at such a big disadvantage while I'm exposed scanning nodes and destroying repair hulks, knowing full well there is always someone cowering behind the cloak nearby, running out their cooldowns and waiting for an easy target.
  • questerius
    questerius Member Posts: 7,784 Arc User
    hanover2 wrote: »
    Do not mess with Ker'rat. The wild west nature of it is the main appeal, and trying to make it a "nicer" place will just mess it up. I consider it part of the challenge to be at such a big disadvantage while I'm exposed scanning nodes and destroying repair hulks, knowing full well there is always someone cowering behind the cloak nearby, running out their cooldowns and waiting for an easy target.

    That would most certainly be true if i had proposed to remove PVP from Kerrat which i didn't.

    What i DID propose was to make the PVP optional. With the option to switch your availability for PVP on/off those who like the wild west nature can enjoy that and those who prefer to just beat up Borg and ignore PVP have that option as well.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • sheldonlcooper
    sheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    I had forgotten about these places and that there were borg there to kill. You have to really be aggressive in Infected to get the 30 in one run. I often get 28 :(

    Look, I hate pvp in this game. Yet, I say leave the zones as they are.

    If we are suggesting things that won't happen I say bring back Borg red alerts and bring them back un-nerfed. Now we can get our kills.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

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  • echatty
    echatty Member Posts: 5,718 Arc User
    You can get thirty Borg ships in Disconnected. It's where I go if I get that.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • sheldonlcooper
    sheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    You can get thirty Borg ships in Disconnected. It's where I go if I get that.

    too SLOW! My main fun for the game these days is to see how fast I can do the endeavors. I bail on patrols and battlezones as soon as I can but I wouldn't bail on a TFO.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • echatty
    echatty Member Posts: 5,718 Arc User
    Ah, well I never get into a hurry when I'm cycling accts. Though I do bail on battlezones as soon as I get what I go there for. Patrols...I'll finish them off since most of them rarely take more than five minutes.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • salazarraze
    salazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    Kerrat exists as it is and should stay that way. Don't wanna get ganked? Go to Argala or Japori. Do 4/5 rinse and repeat.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,529 Community Moderator
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...you want a PvP toggle switch in a PvP zone....

    Yeah I understand that this playerbase is very much against PvP...but at that point, they might as well just remove it all together as the next request will be to have a toggle switch in PvP qiueues at this rate is ridiculous.

    Putting a toggle in a PvP queue makes no sense in the first place so why even mention that as an argument.

    However Questerius did bring up a valid issue with Ker'rat. The ability to spawn camp the other team.
    While camping in general is a valid tactic, especially with snipers that find a very good spot with good visibility, spawn camping is, imo, unsportsmanlike and serves no purpose but to deny the opposing team the ability to even do anything at all. And if you get some really toxic people involved, they start badmouthing the victim's skill while preventing them from actually being able to do anything.

    You can have a competition that doesn't involve direct PvP, just as quest outlined. And having the ability to observe a PvP duel would be interesting without having to resort to having a ship that can cloak because even if you're not participating, you're a valid target.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • mustrumridcully0
    mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    I don't think it's a good idea. It seems like needless extra effort to setup the map once with and without PvP and create the Ui for it just so that your Endeavor hunting gets like 2 % easier (I mean, how often does the Kill Borg stuff come up from allthe possible tasks?), and its also likely to hurt the population in the PvP zone. Accept the risk or do some Borg TFOs.
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  • questerius
    questerius Member Posts: 7,784 Arc User
    To be honest i feel i already made my case here.
    By removing the forced PVP aspect in the war zones and making it optional, the root cause of the toxic environment is removed.

    Without a toxic environment in the first zone where people potentially encounter PVP the positive aspects can be brought forward.

    So optional PVP in war zones is a win for all. Honestly i don't see where the hostility towards the proposal comes from.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,529 Community Moderator
    Probably from people who feel touching PvP in any way is negative, especially if its making it an option. Its either "fix it my way or might as well remove it". There's no middle ground with some people.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • questerius
    questerius Member Posts: 7,784 Arc User
    I rather propose something constructive than just removal.
    Here's to hoping a dev reading this and thinking it is an awesome idea plus super duper easy to implement.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,889 Arc User
    I have to agree that adding a toggle button seems silly in a dedicated PvP Zone.

    However, to be fair.. I do not now, nor have I ever had any interest in PvP and I don't go to Kerat so overall my opinion on this is pretty meaningless.

    I think that's also why you didn't get a lot of replies, there just aren't many people in STO who care about PvP. :wink:
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  • echatty
    echatty Member Posts: 5,718 Arc User
    I too don't think a toggle button for a dedicated PvP zone is needed.

    Though I am also another who doesn't PvP at all. So I guess my opinion isn't worth much either.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • neoakiraii
    neoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    What year is it I thought this was a necro thread from like 2013

    No leave them alone plenty of other places to farm and get your Borg kills from if you don't like the "toxicity" of the zones don't go in...This isn't the first time this topic came up

    So don't get your hopes up it will happen
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  • salazarraze
    salazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    questerius wrote: »
    To be honest i feel i already made my case here.
    You've said what you're gonna say but you haven't made a case for anything.
    questerius wrote: »
    Without a toxic environment in the first zone where people potentially encounter PVP the positive aspects can be brought forward.
    The toxicity isn't getting ganked or losing at PvP itself. The toxicity is in the zone chat where people are belittled over their skill or lack thereof. An "off button" for PvP doesn't change that. The ignore button does and it works just fine.

    Personally I'm awful at PvP but it's fun to run into Kerrat once in a while and see how long I can last. An off button in that zone serves no purpose. The zone exists as it is for a reason. There's an entire world map outside of there if you personally wish to avoid PvP. Use it.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • baddmoonrizin
    baddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,400 Community Moderator
    PVP is already optional. Don't want to do it? Don't go to the warzones. PVP is what they're designed for, though.

    So, this toggle switch: a player could theoretically toggle on, gank someone, and toggle off to avoid retaliation? That should go over well.
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  • ichaerus1
    ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    No thanks. Warzone =/= safe space. There's fighting that's going on there. You accept the risks of what happens if you go through that door. It's not forced, as you are the one making the choice to go into there. If you want your Borg stuff, you've got Defera, the Borg TFOs, and the Borg patrols in the nebula near Qo'Nos. The idea proposed by the OP isn't super awesome. It's terrible.

    PvP is already optional in this game. You have the option to go into a PvP zone, or not. This is another scenario of someone wanting to have their cake and eating it. Wanting all the rewards, without the risk for them. Bad enough that this game is pretty much "Game Journalist Difficulty" with the content. And we already had something similar happen. Look at the Competitive Wargames reputation. How long did it take before the spoilmark packages/boxes were added to Red Alerts and events? Because people didn't want to "PvP" in a "PvP" reputation, but sure as hell wanted those sweet sweet ship engines.

    More traffic to places such as Ker'rat won't matter if the "deluge" of players that pop in, aren't flagged, and are there to just poach resources with no consequence.

    Seems this is one of those occasions where Questerius 2.7 has broken down, and needs the hard reboot or percussive maintenance to fix things.
    Camping, ganking, trash-talking are all a part of competition or conflict, even in real life. Because part of the competition or conflict is mental. If the words hurt you, turn off chat. Or avoid the area. If you want to have the "honorable" and "sportsmanlike" duels, there are options for that as well.

    Ker'rat's current setup isn't broke in this aspect.
  • questerius
    questerius Member Posts: 7,784 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    PVP is already optional. Don't want to do it? Don't go to the warzones. PVP is what they're designed for, though.

    So, this toggle switch: a player could theoretically toggle on, gank someone, and toggle off to avoid retaliation? That should go over well.

    The target would have had to consciously switch on the PVP option so ganking should be less of an option. Those willing to PVP should be better prepared.

    The toggle would obviously not be operable during combat, but perhaps a timer could be attached.

    As for the fact that war zones were designed with PVP in mind is true, but they're also some of the oldest places in the game and may simply need to be adjusted to a format better suited to today's game. An off/on switch for PVP could be part of that.

    Edit: removed various typos
    Post edited by questerius on
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • warpangel
    warpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    To be honest i feel i already made my case here.
    You've said what you're gonna say but you haven't made a case for anything.
    questerius wrote: »
    Without a toxic environment in the first zone where people potentially encounter PVP the positive aspects can be brought forward.
    The toxicity isn't getting ganked or losing at PvP itself. The toxicity is in the zone chat where people are belittled over their skill or lack thereof. An "off button" for PvP doesn't change that. The ignore button does and it works just fine.

    Personally I'm awful at PvP but it's fun to run into Kerrat once in a while and see how long I can last. An off button in that zone serves no purpose. The zone exists as it is for a reason. There's an entire world map outside of there if you personally wish to avoid PvP. Use it.
    Yeah, people would just be belittled for turning off PvP instead.

    Coding a "PvP off button" for one ancient map who's only reason to exist at all is free PvP, just because a few players want to lazy-farm borg in it, would be a royal waste of developer resources. Anyone who finds farming borg in a PvP zone too hard is free to farm them somewhere easier.
  • tvalavulcan
    tvalavulcan Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    If I get a kill borg endeavor, I just hop on my kdf and do the rebooting the borg in T'Kanis daily mission.
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