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Star Trek Online: Rise of Discovery, starring Jason Isaacs and Rekha Sharma

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  • madhatch1971madhatch1971 Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    I’m not the one saying this, CBS is: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Desperate_Hours

    Learn to accept you’re wrong. The books just like STO are written to fit with canon but anything that happens in the show overrules the books. For instance if something happens in the Picard show that contradicts STO lore, then STO is not canon.

    No one has said other wise. What people, myself included have said, is what CBS have stated is canon. You and I don't get to argue that. Because of in the scheme of things, you and I don't get to make the decision. I accept things change - and can be changed to suit what they do in the show. Such as the change from Kelpia to Kaminar. That name change, by the production team, is well known, and is reflected in later books.

    As for Prime Lorca; he has NEVER been seen on screen. Only Mirror Lorca has been seen on screen. Prime Lorca's death has not been shown on screen, because Prime Lorca has (to date) not been on screen. We have only seen Mirror Lorca and his death. The only canon info we have on Prime Lorca comes from the book "Desperate Measures." Until the info in that is contradicted on screen, it stands as canon. Nothing seen on screen contradicts it. To quote "learn to accept when you're wrong."

    Enterprise and holograms... sheesh, I've read the books. Have you? I'll screen shot the references if you like - Pike and Georgiou's holographic communication happens in the book. If you haven't read it - then how can you comment on it? That's just another form of gatekeeping.

    Learn to accept you’re wrong. The books just like STO are written to fit with canon but anything that happens in the show overrules the books. For instance if something happens in the Picard show that contradicts STO lore, then STO is not canon.

    The books, just like the game is 'soft cannon.' The only real 'cannon' is what's happened on screen and rather you like it or not Lorca's official status is 'Unknown.' His fate has not been officially decided.

    Even the very site you linked as proof shows that Lorca is missing and presumed deceased.

    Maybe we'll get another side of the story in the upcoming arc.. hard to say at this point.

    Either way, it's a great move for the game and I am really excited to play missions featuring Lorca and Landry.. the trailer looks fantastic.

    Absolutely - these things are soft canon. They stand until CBS says otherwise, changes are worked into them. People are so hot on this idea that things have to be right straight from the beginning... The first season of TOS, it's amazing how much changed. Spock went from having a distant human ancestor to having a human mother. Apparently, Vulcan was conquered. And can forget the meeting between Ensign Chekov and Khan - all in the First season of TOS...

    David Mack made a lot of changes to his book based on changes to DSC's bible and what the (then) show runners had planned for Season 2. Those people were fired, the show bible was tweaked - name was changed. In the scheme of things, minor stuff that always happens with a new show. But stuff that changed after the book went into print. The eBook has been updated recently

    Personally, I don't like CBS putting the books in the canon pile. On the other hand given some of the books written in the past regarding the Kirk and Co - maybe that's not a bad thing...

    I thought it was interesting what the Devs said about the Picard show and what it could mean for STO. The game itself could end up becoming completely non-canon, depending on what (if any) changes the Picard series makes to the 25th Century.

    I think it's a brilliant move to have Prime Lorca and Landry in game. I am really hoping that we get to see more of both them. Both actors are brilliant. Mirror Landry could be one of the cocooned bodies rescued from the Charon… Prime Lorca could have been in a cell on the Charon... But Prime Lorca being a prisoner and Georgiou not saying anything? The Emperor was entitled to keep some state secrets after all. And she was hot on keeping the Federation a secret from her people. She killed most of her council to control the knowledge. Thought experiments are always interesting.
    People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    Stop with the "what is and isn't canon" argument. You're derailing the thread.
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  • jammiedodger#7152 jammiedodger Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    So have Temporal Investigations been like wiped out from the galaxy?
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,292 Arc User
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 1,702 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > marty123#3757 wrote: »
    >
    > Then when Mirror Lorca beamed onto the ISS Buran he swapped places with Prime Lorca who ended up on the ISS Buran instead, which preceded to explode.
    >
    > Unless the transporter was somehow redirected and every forgot about it, Prime Lorca is dead.
    >
    >
    >
    > According to the Discovery novels, which were written to follow canon, Lorca is alive, being held in a prison somewhere in the MU.

    They are not canon until backed up in the show, in Desperate Measures they mentioned how Starfleet had two uniforms (Discovery and TOS) which confused non-humans, in the show however the new bright coloured uniforms don’t get released until years after as Pike refers to them as new.

    Let's see now....
    The original Pilot episode was 12 years before, as referenced in the Menagerie, James T. Kirk became captain of the Enterprise.
    The first season of Discovery was supposedly set 10 years prior, but would that be around the time of the Battle of the Binary Stars, or the time when the rest of the show is set, about 6 months after the battle? Two and a half years, let alone just two years is plenty of time for a transition to the new uniforms. Human or non-human.

    At least the did a lot of course corrections in the second season to bring things closer to canon.
  • halifax#1247 halifax Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Wonderful News.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    War can change a person.
    Except that is not what happened. We did not see any even that would lead to Landry's behavior.

    She was "mean" so that when she died, the audience would not be upset. She "deserved" it. Same for her mirror counterpart.

    I'm really looking forward to this. The Cryptic writers typically create good dialogue when they bring actors in. Victory is Life is a fairly high bar they set for themselves. I hope they continue to write stories of that caliber.
  • marty123#3757 marty123 Member Posts: 639 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    (Continued derailing comments moderated out. - BMR)
  • marty123#3757 marty123 Member Posts: 639 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    (Trolling, derailing comments moderated out. - BMR)
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,032 Community Moderator
    edited April 2019
    jslyn wrote: »
    Also, so much for the No Captain rule, huh?

    I don't think it was a rule so much as "interest and/or cost" to get one of the Captains. Landing Lorca could mean we might see another Captain down the road if they have the money. Sisko's pretty much a no go due to interest. Picard is gonna be pretty busy, Kirk's way too expensive, Janeway might be possible, and Archer... if we get a time travel episode maybe.
    redvenge wrote: »
    Except that is not what happened. We did not see any even that would lead to Landry's behavior.

    Except that we didn't see her BEFORE her time aboard Discovery, and the war had been raging. So you cannot say for absolute FACT that she had ALWAYS been that way. We've only seen her for a short time. So in theory, my statement stands. I am looking at it from an in universe perspective. As a viewer... yea she was supposed to be this hardass who pretty much deserved to die. But we don't know her backstory. What she was like before the war.

    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,019 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I don't think it was a rule so much as "interest and/or cost" to get one of the Captains. Landing Lorca could mean we might see another Captain down the road if they have the money. Sisko's pretty much a no go due to interest. Picard is gonna be pretty busy, Kirk's way too expensive, Janeway might be possible, and Archer... if we get a time travel episode maybe.
    This.

    Captains were only ever not a thing because Shatner, Stewart, and Mulgrew, were too expensive, and Brooks doesn't want to do Trek anymore.

    Bakula is just left with the rest of the ENT cast in that Cryptic doesn't care.
  • madhatch1971madhatch1971 Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > rattler2 wrote: »
    >
    > I don't think it was a rule so much as "interest and/or cost" to get one of the Captains. Landing Lorca could mean we might see another Captain down the road if they have the money. Sisko's pretty much a no go due to interest. Picard is gonna be pretty busy, Kirk's way too expensive, Janeway might be possible, and Archer... if we get a time travel episode maybe.
    >
    >
    >
    > This.
    >
    > Captains were only ever not a thing because Shatner, Stewart, and Mulgrew, were too expensive, and Brooks doesn't want to do Trek anymore.
    >
    > Bakula is just left with the rest of the ENT cast in that Cryptic doesn't care.

    I wonder if Isaacs taking part will prompt a few more Trek alumni. He's not a small name in Hollywood. But... You have to have the stories to put them in.

    Given TMP turns 40 this December, it would be nice to have Shatner do something.
    People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,032 Community Moderator
    I don't think that its because Cryptic doesn't care. I think its because we're talking about a crew from the 22nd Century, and the game is set mostly in the 25th. We'd need a Time Travel episode where we interact with Archer to justify getting VO work really from anyone from Enterprise.

    So its not lack of caring, its lack of opportunity.
    You have to have the stories to put them in.
    Just like madhatch said.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,019 Arc User
    I wonder if Isaacs taking part will prompt a few more Trek alumni. He's not a small name in Hollywood. But... You have to have the stories to put them in.

    Given TMP turns 40 this December, it would be nice to have Shatner do something.
    Its really not that Shatner is unwilling. Hell, its not even really that Shatner himself is too expensive. Its the cost of licensing the actor's face that costs more then it does to actually hire Shatner himself. This is why Kirk was face down in the Babel mission. The cost of Shatner's face is massive due to the way licensing works, especially in the U.S.

    Realistically, there's only a few Tek actors, from pre-Discovery shows, they haven't gotten that I could see them getting in the future
    -Sulu
    -B'Elanna
    -Ezri
    -O'Brien
    -Guinan(I could see Whoopi doing it)

    The TNG cast is generally difficult to get, several of them(like Spiner) just don't want to do it anymore, and others(like Frakes) are still actively doing things that take a lot of their time.

    ENT hasn't gotten much in STO because Cryptic find it hard to write for ENT content because it happened just so far in the past from STO that there aren't many loose ends that would still be dangling around by the time of STO(at least that's what I remember then saying). I would guess that Agents of Yesterday, which dealt heavily with the Temporal Cold War, races like the Sphere Builders and Na'Kuhl, and dealt with events like the Battle of Procyon V, and explained who was in the time travel pod the Tholians wanted in that one ENT episode. Not to mention the Delphic Expanse, the big thing of S2, was destroyed. The Xindi, the big focused of S3, have joined the Federation. And S4 of ENT was mostly them setting up things for how we see them in TOS. There's really not a whole lot to mine from ENT.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,611 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I don't think that its because Cryptic doesn't care. I think its because we're talking about a crew from the 22nd Century, and the game is set mostly in the 25th. We'd need a Time Travel episode where we interact with Archer to justify getting VO work really from anyone from Enterprise.

    So its not lack of caring, its lack of opportunity.

    The circumstances for ENT integration we pretty much saw with AOD part 1. There was a nod to make (justifiable in the arc), actor was available, nod was made. Enter DSC Captain Shon. If another opportunity exists in future Cryptic will doubtlessly consider and potentially pursue it to whatever reasonable development allows (which just as well goes with any actor or series.)

    See also. Daniels.

    They bring in content as it makes sense (and is interesting/entertaining) to do so. This was also explicitly reinforced on Ten Forward weekly recently, with an ENT expansion being ruled out (for the foreseeable future) for being not terribly relevant or exciting ATM (we already covered the Temporal Cold War, key ship highlights, and many plausible extrapolations [see. Elachii]) but if there's connections to make then Cryptic's going to be looking into them. That's core to what they do in pulling together the IP for one narrative-driven game with a coherent setting. See. DSC's use now.
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  • captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 1,702 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @captaincelestial said:
    > marty123#3757 wrote: »
    >
    > > @somtaawkhar said:
    > > marty123#3757 wrote: »
    > >
    > > Then when Mirror Lorca beamed onto the ISS Buran he swapped places with Prime Lorca who ended up on the ISS Buran instead, which preceded to explode.
    > >
    > > Unless the transporter was somehow redirected and every forgot about it, Prime Lorca is dead.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > According to the Discovery novels, which were written to follow canon, Lorca is alive, being held in a prison somewhere in the MU.
    >
    > They are not canon until backed up in the show, in Desperate Measures they mentioned how Starfleet had two uniforms (Discovery and TOS) which confused non-humans, in the show however the new bright coloured uniforms don’t get released until years after as Pike refers to them as new.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Let's see now....
    > The original Pilot episode was 12 years before, as referenced in the Menagerie, James T. Kirk became captain of the Enterprise.
    > The first season of Discovery was supposedly set 10 years prior, but would that be around the time of the Battle of the Binary Stars, or the time when the rest of the show is set, about 6 months after the battle? Two and a half years, let alone just two years is plenty of time for a transition to the new uniforms. Human or non-human.
    >
    > At least the did a lot of course corrections in the second season to bring things closer to canon.

    The Cage was 13 years before TOS season 1. They didn't "course correct" this was aleays the plan as was stated multiple times in the last 2 years.

    Nope, they've planned to do a total reboot, and had to do major revisions during the first season and again for the second season. That's a major reason for the delay in releasing what was supposed to be the first half of Season Two.

    Cryptic's release of Age of Discovery was supposed to coincide with the release of the Season Two, which is part of the reason why the current update had been broken up and parsed out.

    Having Burnham as Spock's previously unheard of and never again adopted sister was emblematic of reboot. And the convoluted 'fix' to ensure that the Section 31/Time shenanigans, with Sarek and Amanda never talking about having said daughter again. This is reminiscent of the correction that was made dealing with knowledge of the Mirror Universe known before TOS.

    Alex needed a minder (a co-showrunner) to help him get Star Trek back on track. Hopefully the future jump will help the show, being set post-TNG era in the first place was what they should have done in the first place.
  • captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 1,702 Arc User
    I've got a question about Captain Lorca and Commander Landry:
    Mirror Lorca killed all hands when he set the self-destruct of the U.S.S. Buran (in part to get rid of people who would question his identity, as well as any data that the Buran would have collected when the two Lorcas swapped). How did Commander who was stationed on the Buran survive, let alone not be killed off (totally accidental...) afterwards by Lorca?
  • botc76botc76 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    (Flaming, trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,292 Arc User
    They are going to lower prices on ships below T6. Those lower Tier ships have some good Universal Consoles as well.
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  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,757 Bug Hunter
    Captain Lorca and Commander Landry, voiced by Jason Isaacs and Rekha Sharma, will be a nice addition for many.
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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    *looks at the release date*

    Well... happy early birthday to me then.
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  • timelords1701timelords1701 Member Posts: 346 Arc User
    Jason Isaacs was also in "Event Horizon" and Kurt Russells movie "Soldier" along with many other acting gigs before the harry potter movies..
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,808 Arc User
    I liked both Landrys, they both have that tough edge to them. Getting Jason Isaacs is quite the coup
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    • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,048 Arc User
      I've got a question about Captain Lorca and Commander Landry:
      Mirror Lorca killed all hands when he set the self-destruct of the U.S.S. Buran (in part to get rid of people who would question his identity, as well as any data that the Buran would have collected when the two Lorcas swapped). How did Commander who was stationed on the Buran survive, let alone not be killed off (totally accidental...) afterwards by Lorca?

      It's easy to explain as Landry was seconded to another location for example Pior's World during the destruction of the Buran thus she didn't go down with the ship as for why Lorca didn't eliminate him later, there was no need Mirror Lorca had everyone fooled that he was Prime Lorca also having another hardliner makes it easier for people to belive that out-of-character actions for Lorca are simply the result of the stress of war.
    • daderganonumbersdaderganonumbers Member Posts: 49 Arc User
      OK, glossing over all the really important canon/non-canon stuff everyone else is talking about, can I just throw this one thing out there: can we please stop using "Rise" now? Trying to avoid hyperbole, it still has to be among the most beaten-to-death words in movie and television titles of the past two decades.
    • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
      rattler2 wrote: »
      Except that we didn't see her BEFORE her time aboard Discovery, and the war had been raging. So you cannot say for absolute FACT that she had ALWAYS been that way.
      What is your point here? That the show did not go into any detail regarding Landry's backstory? That is what I said.

      Maybe she is scarred by war. Maybe she was abused by a family member. Maybe a former lover broke her heart. Maybe Logic Extremists murdered her pet goldfish. Maybe she is just a mean-spirited person. Any of these could be correct. Speculation does us no good.
      rattler2 wrote: »
      We've only seen her for a short time. So in theory, my statement stands. I am looking at it from an in universe perspective.
      An in-universe perspective from a tiny slice of her life. Create whatever fan-fiction you want, it does not change the fact that:
      rattler2 wrote: »
      As a viewer... yea she was supposed to be this hardass who pretty much deserved to die.
      That is all we know about Landry. Look at the cyborg Airiam and compare her situation to how they portrayed Landry. Airiam had her backstory filled out (to a degree) and had a memorial service. Landry was killed and shortly replaced by Tyler-Voq.

      Cryptic usually does a good job with the dialogue of previous cast members. I am curious to see what they are going to do with Landry. I think her "no-nonsense security chief" personality is fine; I would like to see less "abrasive" and disrespectful dialogue. I think it would be a great accomplishment if Cryptic can flesh out Landry's character so I actually feel a degree of loss when she dies on the show.
    • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 799 Arc User
      On a positive note I'm happy for the new stuff and also PWE calling it an "UPDATE" and not an expansion or a season.

      On a negative side what's coming is really minuscule to put it nicely:
      -2 feature episodes ( I guess these days we call these "new content"?

      Then added T6 ships that scale with the player (more for PWEs pocket and not requested by me....yet they said "players requested it and they LOVE it" remember the same language used with Delta Rising (we certainly loved it)?

      I guess nicely done by calling an update or a PATCH rather than a season or expansion. How I missed ViL? has it been a year already?
      This patch was the major "content" mentioned in the road map...do I dare to ask what else might be coming besides this update and besides summer/fall/winter events?

      IMO there is a huge lack of content and quality of life improvement in the game. I hope they add more in the future rather than just smaller random featured episodes and weekend shinies.​​
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