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Star Trek Discovery Season 2, Episode 10: "The Red Angel" (Spoiler Warning)
mustrumridcully0
Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
in Ten Forward
If you didn't know - the new officer entering the bridge taking over Airiam's position is played by the original Season 1 actress who played Airiam. I am not exactly sure why she stopped playing Airiam, one rumor I heard was that she had allergy problems with the make-up. (Farscape and Andromeda fans might remember other actors having problem with their and having to lower their involvement in the series.)
I actually liked the techno-babble this episode, it seemed to actually make sense within the context of the show. A Time Crystal was also used by Harry Mudd in his Season 1 episode. They are a real thing, but despite the name don't really have anything to do with time travel, but represent a system undergoing a periodic, self-repeating cycle.
Despite that, one thing was missing - the never really explicitly said that if this if the Red Angel is really future Burnham, she'd know of the plan and could prepare herself for it. Now, of course the Red Angel has no choice but to save herself (if you can guarantee that no one can save her but the Red Angel, which only Spock fully acknowledged - but the rest seemed less understanding of that?), but one has to wonder if she can't prepare some counter-measures. So if she falls into the trap, then either because she has limitations that they can't beat, or she needs to want to be captured. If the latter was the case, she could have that easier.
Of course, since the Red Angel turns out to be Burnhams mother, not Burnham herself, she cannot necessarily anticipate counters, but the Disco team had no way of knowing.
That the Red Angel doesn't turn out to be Burnham after all, makes one wonder: Did Culber win his Doctor-grade in the lottery?
Of course, there are alternate explanations: 1) The Red Angel will become Burnham. 2) The signature they found isn't really from the Red Angel, and instead was placed by someone for other reasons. It could have been a trap, or it could have been that they found out the Red Angel was looking for that signature. Maybe Burnhams mother was "stuck" in the suite and only went around saving Burnham, and the Red Burst stuff happens when Burnham takes over the suite, for example.
I don't like the idea of Section 31 developing its own time travel tech, but on the other hand, time travel tech in Star Trek is not that hard - Kirk is after all uses it as well. Interestingly at least, the Section 31 tech seems to require a rare material (Time Crystals), so that limits the availability of the tech far more than just warping around the sun.
I actually liked the techno-babble this episode, it seemed to actually make sense within the context of the show. A Time Crystal was also used by Harry Mudd in his Season 1 episode. They are a real thing, but despite the name don't really have anything to do with time travel, but represent a system undergoing a periodic, self-repeating cycle.
Despite that, one thing was missing - the never really explicitly said that if this if the Red Angel is really future Burnham, she'd know of the plan and could prepare herself for it. Now, of course the Red Angel has no choice but to save herself (if you can guarantee that no one can save her but the Red Angel, which only Spock fully acknowledged - but the rest seemed less understanding of that?), but one has to wonder if she can't prepare some counter-measures. So if she falls into the trap, then either because she has limitations that they can't beat, or she needs to want to be captured. If the latter was the case, she could have that easier.
Of course, since the Red Angel turns out to be Burnhams mother, not Burnham herself, she cannot necessarily anticipate counters, but the Disco team had no way of knowing.
That the Red Angel doesn't turn out to be Burnham after all, makes one wonder: Did Culber win his Doctor-grade in the lottery?
Of course, there are alternate explanations: 1) The Red Angel will become Burnham. 2) The signature they found isn't really from the Red Angel, and instead was placed by someone for other reasons. It could have been a trap, or it could have been that they found out the Red Angel was looking for that signature. Maybe Burnhams mother was "stuck" in the suite and only went around saving Burnham, and the Red Burst stuff happens when Burnham takes over the suite, for example.I don't like the idea of Section 31 developing its own time travel tech, but on the other hand, time travel tech in Star Trek is not that hard - Kirk is after all uses it as well. Interestingly at least, the Section 31 tech seems to require a rare material (Time Crystals), so that limits the availability of the tech far more than just warping around the sun.
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I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
Apart from that, the episode was.. ok. Turns out that angel suit, that looked so futuristic so it must be from the future (great writing, sigh), was made in the past. By Burnham's mother. Who was working for section 31. To gain an advantage in a temporal war against the Klingons. And despite the red angel's brain pattern and mambo jumbo waves matching Michael Burnham's, it's actually her mother.
I'm all for unexpected plot twists, as long as they make sense. Saying one thing in one episode and then contradicting the same thing in the next episode (or even the same episode) is not a plot twist, it's bad writing. Plain and simple.
What I though was odd was they made such a big deal with Airiam's funeral, yet when Culber died, NOTHING.
Culber was a more vested character, Airiam maybe not so much.
Was it was because the writers knew it was not the end of Culber's story? - dunno
Is it THE END of Airiam's story? - dunno
About the Red Angel being her mother. It's just another plot point about Burnham, which is also getting old. She started the Klingon war, she is the "daughter" of the mirror Emperor, her mother is the Red Angel. Apparently the entire Trek universe revolves around Burnham now, which is ridiculous.
It's one thing to have a "main character". Plenty of shows do it, and that's fine. But for the love of god, don't make every single thing in the universe about them. It's dumb.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
> About the Red Angel being her mother. It's just another plot point about Burnham, which is also getting old. She started the Klingon war, she is the "daughter" of the mirror Emperor, her mother is the Red Angel. Apparently the entire Trek universe revolves around Burnham now, which is ridiculous.
>
> It's one thing to have a "main character". Plenty of shows do it, and that's fine. But for the love of god, don't make every single thing in the universe about them. It's dumb.
This is not a first in Star Trek. The protagonists do tend to be the centre of universe altering events.
To parallel your comment:
Sisko was at one of the most historic battles in Starfleet history. And one of very few to survive.
Sisko started the Dominion War.
Influential in the Terran Rebellion almost like the father of the revolution over there.
Is a literal demigod. Omnipotent beings made his existence happen.
Similar sentiments can be echoed for Picard, Janeway, Archer and especially Kirk who is revered by people centuries later.
Within their own shows the universe kind of does revolve around the protags. This isnt new and likely the same will be said of future ones.
You aren't wrong that there have been some very important characters in other shows. The difference is Burnham is an "important character" on steroids. They have stuffed what would normally be an entire series worth of "special character coincidences" in just 30 episodes. At some point it gets ridiculous even considering the previous examples you cited.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Somehow you accidentally left out the part after the sentence you quoted, which addresses your very response.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
But it is most definitely a trope of the franchise so no one can say its isolated to discovery. Our sto protags are even cut from the same cloth.
I did not say that in the statement I am referring to:
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
We are in agreement.
Sure, why not. It would go well with everything else being about her.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
and let's not forget: Was the father of the Bell Riots
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
so why are races not using that for warp travel and primary ship power instead?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Thank god we can put that to rest
Just because their energy output is significant enough to be equal to 12 warp cores, does not necessarily mean it can be utilized as an engine.
I mean, nuclear reactors harness nuclear fission for energy, but that doesn’t mean that energy can be used by a car as fuel to make it go, unless it was converted to electricity. For one thing the energy output might burn it out if it was a direct connection. The analogy could probably be applicable to a starship and a plasma reactor.
I’m probably not explainin* that exactly correct, I’m no nuclear physicist or scientist of any kind, but this would be my best approximation.
As for Burnham’s mother being the RA, I almost thought for half a second that it was her instead of Burnham, but psyched myself out since they reaffirmed how her parent’s had died. As for S31 having time travel technology at their disposal, it’s definitely their MO to be cutting edge, but once the Department of Temporal Investigations got set up, I can imagine they confiscated and blacklisted all information about Project: Daedalus from S31’s archives.
It makes me curious, though, what happened in the Mirror Universe, did Georgiou commission a similar project in the MU that resulted in her Burnham’s parents deaths? I know more than likely she just TRIBBLE Leeland’s files, but that would be interesting point for a MU novel, or just some fan fiction I guess. Maybe in the MU, Burnham’s Father is the mysterious ‘Emperor’ that showed up one day with ‘Godlike powers’.
And I thought our Department of Veteran's Affairs was terrible.
trivialising injuries?
Pike's injuries may have been so bad that only a wheelchair was the only thing going for him to keep at least some form of independence, what happened if the injury so badly damaged his spine in such a way that the wheelchair is more than just a transportation device or he completely lost the lowerhalf of his body and the chair is keeping him alive, who knows with something that bulky.
Airiam may have been so badly burned but remained alive, putting a cybernetic overlay, in effect a complete replacement for her skin organ and maybe anything underneath so damaged, but she can still function as an individual. it is clear her body was so badly damaged that she required a cybernetic upgrade.
Then you look at Mark Jameson, he was confined to a wheelchair as his age went on before that whole reverse aging business before Karnas.
You had Malora wearing a special harness to adjust to different gravity.
Worf needed a new spine after his original spine was crushed, by way of genotronic research and that replicator he got a replacement, but also had to wear harnesses with special motor controllers so he could stand despite having no way of moving naturally.
Neelix couldn't survive outside a holographic set of lungs that could only be provided by a medical bed, he was confined there permanently until a viidian transplanted one.
There is a lot of variance of what could be the right action to take under the circumstances.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Close enough, i suspected that the red angel was linked to spock and burnham in some manner, so when it was Burnham's mother it wasn't a shock at all, more underwhelming honestly.
hopefully the next episode is a bit more interesting.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
TBH that would be a lot cooler. I for one welcome our new iconian overlords
What? This is the most bizarre moon logic I've heard yet. Why the weird double standard? Why is Pike living in misery when his body can be rebuilt just like Airiam's? This does not make sense.
So, obviously neither of these situations are real.
Because of that fact, no one is "trivializing" anyone's injures. Because they aren't real injuries or real people.
And because this is fiction, the anyone can come up with any hypothetical reason why one of them could become a cyborg and the other couldn't.
But I do agree that if Pike's brain works, it seems like they should have been able to do him up like Airiam. Then again, maybe he didn't want it after seeing what happened to Airiam. Maybe he didn't want to be in a body that could be taken control of.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
see: genetic modification, genesis, sapient AI, etc.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
so instead of answering the point you decide to faff about instead? why are you replying for exactly?
the point is that there are different options and with different technologies, it great depends on the injuries that apparently redvenge can't seem to answer.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Well, I guess it's a good thing that there are different treatments for different conditions, then...
How is this even a mystery?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008