But is a person with a pacemaker, artificial arm, or an artificial hip, cybernetically enhanced?
Well, sure. That is essentially the definition of cybernetics.
But how is someone enhanced by having a pacemaker or artificial hip? The pacemaker or artificial hip doesn't make a person's life better than a perfectly healthy person while an artificial arm, artificial legs, or artificial eyes could improve a person's life based on how stronger, faster, or better eyesight the cybernetic augmentation provides. To be cybernetically enhanced, you need the cybernetics to provide an added benefit that is difficult or impossible for perfectly healthy humans.
But is a person with a pacemaker, artificial arm, or an artificial hip, cybernetically enhanced?
Well, sure. That is essentially the definition of cybernetics.
But how is someone enhanced by having a pacemaker or artificial hip? The pacemaker or artificial hip doesn't make a person's life better than a perfectly healthy person while an artificial arm, artificial legs, or artificial eyes could improve a person's life based on how stronger, faster, or better eyesight the cybernetic augmentation provides. To be cybernetically enhanced, you need the cybernetics to provide an added benefit that is difficult or impossible for perfectly healthy humans.
The pacemaker actually can make a persons life better as it keeps the heart rate constant even when running or doing more strenuous exercise. An artificial hip I don't think is a cybernetic I think it would be a prosthetic. And no by definition you do not have to have added benefits that are impossible for a normal human to be cybernetically enhanced.
But is a person with a pacemaker, artificial arm, or an artificial hip, cybernetically enhanced?
Well, sure. That is essentially the definition of cybernetics.
But how is someone enhanced by having a pacemaker or artificial hip? The pacemaker or artificial hip doesn't make a person's life better than a perfectly healthy person while an artificial arm, artificial legs, or artificial eyes could improve a person's life based on how stronger, faster, or better eyesight the cybernetic augmentation provides. To be cybernetically enhanced, you need the cybernetics to provide an added benefit that is difficult or impossible for perfectly healthy humans.
The pacemaker actually can make a persons life better as it keeps the heart rate constant even when running or doing more strenuous exercise. An artificial hip I don't think is a cybernetic I think it would be a prosthetic. And no by definition you do not have to have added benefits that are impossible for a normal human to be cybernetically enhanced.
Cybernetically enhanced means that someone is enhanced through cybernetics not being able to live just like they used to. After all, how is someone enhanced by having a pacemaker, artificial limb, or artificial hip? Can a person run faster with a pacemaker or standard artificial legs? A pacemaker is no different from a prosthetic, they both provide a standard of living that the patient is used to. So if you consider a pacemaker to be a cybernetic, then an artificial hip is cybernetic as well. If there is no enhancement, then it is just cybernetics. If there is enhancement, then it is cybernetically enhanced or cybernetic augmentations.
She did not start the war. As has been repeatedly pointed out, T'Kuvma would have found an excuse to start a war with whatever ship arrived to repair that relay - Burnham just gave him the excuse. And then, as Spock pointed out in his speech to her in "Project Daedalus", she assumed the responsibility, whether it was hers to assume or not; she short-circuited the board of inquiry by insisting that she was indeed guilty. (Spock's point was that Burnham found it easier to assume the burden of guilt for everything in her life, from Klingons killing her parents to the war to the bombing of Sarek's house (which Spock pointed out was aimed at him, the "half-breed abomination", and that she just happened to be in the area at the time), than to face grief over loss.) When the board was able to proceed without her interference in the wake of Discovery's little cross-universal sojourn, they found that she was not at fault in any way, which is why she was reinstated at her former rank.
Burnham assumes she's the most important person in the universe, responsible for every bad thing that happens. Some people are like that. Claiming she's of particular importance because her mother the Red Angel used memories of her as an anchor to sanity is akin to claiming that Enola TRIBBLE Tibbets won WW2 because her son flew the plane he named for her so carefully on that fateful August day.
Burnham assumes she's the most important person in the universe, responsible for every bad thing that happens. Some people are like that. Claiming she's of particular importance because her mother the Red Angel used memories of her as an anchor to sanity is akin to claiming that Enola TRIBBLE Tibbets won WW2 because her son flew the plane he named for her so carefully on that fateful August day.
The problem is that the show tries to say "Burnham" is deluded into thinking she's important while also making her very important anyway:
-What prevented Mudd from winning during his time-travel loops that caused Discovery to keep getting blown up? Burnham convincing him she was very important.
-Who has part of Sarek's katra, allowing never-seen-before interstellar mental communications? Nope, not Spock, Burnham.
-Why does the Red Angel do her thing? Half to protect Burnham.
-Why is Mirror!Georgiou still alive and turning into a better person? Her love for Burnham.
-Who Saru chose to "kill" him during his vahar'ai, which is turn revealed the truth about the condition and thus freed the Kelpiens? Burnham.
-Who is the last physical being Airiam sees and begs for death to stop Control? Burnham.
-Who did Mirror!Lorca choose to help him (and grooming her in the process)? 2 Burnham's for the price of one.
-Project Daedalus? Burnham's parents.
-Who released Ripper? Burnham.
-One of the main reasons Voq failed to win his personality war against Tyler? Burnham.
-Who convinces Cornwell to stop the "render Qo'noS inhabitable" plan? Burnham.
-Who literally offers the key to Klingon Chancellorship to L'Rell? Burnham.
-Who managed the feat of making Mirror!Georgiou sound like the most reasonable character of the two crews during the "capture the Red Angel" plan? Burnham, by agreeing to such an incredibly stupid and painful way to endanger herself, that even Janeway in her worst moments would consider too insane.
While the "Main Characters do Eveything" trope isn't bad by itself and the previous Trek heroes were indulging in that a lot, too much of that can start making the whole thing very convoluted and contrived, making the main character go from "memetic badass" to "creator's pet/the Wesley".
But how is someone enhanced by having a pacemaker or artificial hip? The pacemaker or artificial hip doesn't make a person's life better than a perfectly healthy person while an artificial arm, artificial legs, or artificial eyes could improve a person's life based on how stronger, faster, or better eyesight the cybernetic augmentation provides. To be cybernetically enhanced, you need the cybernetics to provide an added benefit that is difficult or impossible for perfectly healthy humans.
Cybernetic does not mean better, only non-organic.
Cybernetic Enhancements or Augmentations however suggest "better".
That said, even there, something like a pacemaker is at least "improving" the person to what it was before the pacemaker. It doesn't make the person superhuman, but at least its heart is working properly, where it was not before.
The same thing in theory for cybernetic eyes that make a blind able to see as good as a non-blind person.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Burnham assumes she's the most important person in the universe, responsible for every bad thing that happens. Some people are like that. Claiming she's of particular importance because her mother the Red Angel used memories of her as an anchor to sanity is akin to claiming that Enola TRIBBLE Tibbets won WW2 because her son flew the plane he named for her so carefully on that fateful August day.
The problem is that the show tries to say "Burnham" is deluded into thinking she's important while also making her very important anyway:
-What prevented Mudd from winning during his time-travel loops that caused Discovery to keep getting blown up? Burnham convincing him she was very important.
-Who has part of Sarek's katra, allowing never-seen-before interstellar mental communications? Nope, not Spock, Burnham.
-Why does the Red Angel do her thing? Half to protect Burnham.
-Why is Mirror!Georgiou still alive and turning into a better person? Her love for Burnham.
-Who Saru chose to "kill" him during his vahar'ai, which is turn revealed the truth about the condition and thus freed the Kelpiens? Burnham.
-Who is the last physical being Airiam sees and begs for death to stop Control? Burnham.
-Who did Mirror!Lorca choose to help him (and grooming her in the process)? 2 Burnham's for the price of one.
-Project Daedalus? Burnham's parents.
-Who released Ripper? Burnham.
-One of the main reasons Voq failed to win his personality war against Tyler? Burnham.
-Who convinces Cornwell to stop the "render Qo'noS inhabitable" plan? Burnham.
-Who literally offers the key to Klingon Chancellorship to L'Rell? Burnham.
-Who managed the feat of making Mirror!Georgiou sound like the most reasonable character of the two crews during the "capture the Red Angel" plan? Burnham, by agreeing to such an incredibly stupid and painful way to endanger herself, that even Janeway in her worst moments would consider too insane.
While the "Main Characters do Eveything" trope isn't bad by itself and the previous Trek heroes were indulging in that a lot, too much of that can start making the whole thing very convoluted and contrived, making the main character go from "memetic badass" to "creator's pet/the Wesley".
Yeah, it's not that this has never happened before; it's that it has never happened this much proportionately. They have stuffed an entire 7 seasons worth of "special character does special things" into just 2 seasons. And like anything else in life, the amount matters a lot. Yes I like salt on my food, but not an entire shaker.
Imagine if Disco were still in the concept phase and the community was just spitballing ideas. Now imagine someone says the show should be about a burnham type character that all of the main plot points revolve around by some kind of universal "fate". And imagine they said there should be this many examples crammed into the first 2 seasons. How many people do you think would actually like that idea? Far fewer than are defending it now, I guarantee you.
-Who has part of Sarek's katra, allowing never-seen-before interstellar mental communications? Nope, not Spock, Burnham.
We have actually seen a similar situation in TOS where Spock was able to feel the death of an entire ship of vulcans by the giant space amoeba due to all Vulcans sharing a psychic link, which is what they drew that from.
If Vulcans all shared a psychic link, then they would be more similar to Betazoids where it is not necessary to speak with other Betazoids. It is far more likely that hundreds of Vulcans dying at the same time would create an amplified psychic signal that is easier for Vulcans to detect rather than all Vulcans are sharing a psychic link. It is similar to the idea that some people can feel the horror in concentration camps after decades have past.
Sarek implanting part of Katra into Burnham makes far more sense since we have never seen interstellar telepathic communication with Vulcans or Mind Melded individuals in previous series. So it is possible that McCoy could have telepathically communicated with Spock if Spock accidentally forgot to retrieve a part of his Katra in McCoy.
You attribute things to Burnham which should be attributed to things like "love". What anchors the Angel to sanity? What's helping to improve Phillippa? What does Tyler use as a lodestone to find his way to a new life? Love. Who they love isn't that important - for all it matters, Dr. Burnham could have developed a fixation on Spock. Phillippa loves her memories of Mirror!Burnham, not Michael as we know her. Tyler... well, who knows what's going on in that mixed-up Klingon/Human psyche, anyway? I think he'd give Troi a headache.
Yes, in the event, Burnham is the point of those fixations, but it's her importance to them that brings that about, not her importance to the universe at large - Reality doesn't give a half a damn who she is. She's just too stubborn to admit it. That's what Spock called her out on - her insistence on shouldering burdens that aren't even hers to carry.
Yes, in the event, Burnham is the point of those fixations, but it's her importance to them that brings that about, not her importance to the universe at large - Reality doesn't give a half a damn who she is.
Except their love for her is still going and she's one of the rare characters to have that in this series, as it seems reality (really the writers) doesn't seem to be a big fan of love outside of specific characters connected to Burnham.
Airiam's husband? He's dead long before the series, but at least she is good friends with Tilly, Keyla and Joann, right? Oh wait, apart from Tilly, they have no development... and Airiam dies in the same episode where we learn something about her, anyway. Next!
Stamets and Culber? Well, it starts well and... oh wait, Culber dies. But wait, he gets resurrected! But wait, he's trying to bury his old life as being resurrected messed him up.
Lorca and Cornwell? Oh, it seems they were lovers and the horrors of the war has made him a different person to her and it is upsetting their relationship, good basis for an interesting story arOh wait, he's actually from the Mirror Universe... aaaaaand he's just a pinga... and he's dead now.
L'Rell and Tyler? Well, as Tyler has the memories of Voq but his human self is horrified by her. Sounds like a good premise for interesting character dev... aaaaaaaaand, they split up in the same episode and can't see each other ever again for risk of creating major issues in the Klingon Empire and he's presumed dead, too bad!
Tilly and May? Well, they were good friends once... and she died. And an alien is impersonating her, changing Tilly, possibly leaving a big impact to... aaaaaand issue solved, Tilly's back to normal!
Heck, while we're here: Michael and her mother? "Hi mom, bye mom, I love you, see you in another episode of another season, perhaps."
Do you imagine that love can only connect people who are physically in contact?
And Culber's issue isn't that he's "trying to bury his old life" - it's that he died, he was reborn in mycelial space where everything was trying to constantly eat him alive, he was trapped there for a prolonged period, and now his husband wants to just take up where they left off as if nothing had ever changed. Hugh Culber today is not the same man as Hugh Culber before all that, and Paul refuses to acknowledge that. Like any couple separated for a prolonged period, they're going to have to basically start courting again, learning anew who they are and who the other is today.
As for Voq and L'rell - I think we're going to see that revisited in the next ep, and we'll see first of all how much of Voq is still in Tyler, and secondly whether he actually loved L'rell, or if it was a simple matter of sexual tension caused by the situation. (People do sometimes experience that, you know, and it doesn't always lead to love in the long term. Love isn't just sex, and sex isn't always love.) As for the repulsion, if there's much of Voq left in Tyler, he can't be very happy about Tyler's feelings for Burnham either, a squishy Human enemy who doesn't even have a vestige of forehead ridges...
Do you imagine that love can only connect people who are physically in contact?
What does this have to do with what I wrote? I know that already, I'm pointing out the writers focus on Burnham a lot more than the rest and when you get some character development for other people, either it involves Burnham or it's solved in a couple of episodes or even one.
Heck, I wasn't even talking about love in the first place.
Do you imagine that love can only connect people who are physically in contact?
What does this have to do with what I wrote? I know that already, I'm pointing out the writers focus on Burnham a lot more than the rest and when you get some character development for other people, either it involves Burnham or it's solved in a couple of episodes or even one.
Heck, I wasn't even talking about love in the first place.
Well, focusing on Burnham is a part of the premise of Discovery - instead of focusing the story around the Captain and his senior officers, they wanted it to be focused about someone that is not in command - that someone is Burnham.
It is a bit like part of the premise of Deep Space Nine to differentiate itself from TNG was to set the story on a station, not on a starship. Of course, it did't end up being just one random station around some backwater world, it became an important station, the key to the Alpha Quadrant and the focus point of interstellar politics.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It is a bit like part of the premise of Deep Space Nine to differentiate itself from TNG was to set the story on a station, not on a starship. Of course, it did't end up being just one random station around some backwater world, it became an important station, the key to the Alpha Quadrant and the focus point of interstellar politics.
You actually just hit the nail on the head, although it wasn't the nail you meant to hit.
The DS9 station was special because of the wormhole, not the other way around. ANY station that just so happened to be next to Bajor would have become important because of the gateway to the gamma quadrant. No, it wasn't the station that was special, it was where it was located.
Discovery does the opposite. They make Burnham special everywhere she goes, instead of letting her be made special by the situation she finds herself in. She just happens to be Spock's sister. She just happens to be the 'daughter' of the mirror Emperor. She just happens to be the daughter of the Red Angel.
To use your DS9 analogy, it would be like a wormhole magically opening up everywhere DS9 went because the station was just so cool and magical.
The other issue with Airiam is how her unique physiology renders several eras of technology obsolete.
The Federation can directly interface instructions from a brain to a electro-mechanical device. Buttons, switches, even those impractical 3D holographic interfaces are no longer required. Just put your hand on a console and think about what you want to happen. All those consoles on the Enterprise, Enterprise A, Enterprise B, Enterprise C, Enterprise D, and Enterprise E should have all been direct interface consoles.
and yet...airiam was so ridiculously easy to corrupt and be turned against the federation because of that physiology
no way in hell the federation has any intention of developing direct interface technology for at least the next 150+ years (it did show up again in Endgame, or at least something similar, so their PTSD about it wasn't QUITE as bad as with augmentation, genesis, sapient computer systems and so on)
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
It is a bit like part of the premise of Deep Space Nine to differentiate itself from TNG was to set the story on a station, not on a starship. Of course, it did't end up being just one random station around some backwater world, it became an important station, the key to the Alpha Quadrant and the focus point of interstellar politics.
You actually just hit the nail on the head, although it wasn't the nail you meant to hit.
The DS9 station was special because of the wormhole, not the other way around. ANY station that just so happened to be next to Bajor would have become important because of the gateway to the gamma quadrant. No, it wasn't the station that was special, it was where it was located.
Discovery does the opposite. They make Burnham special everywhere she goes, instead of letting her be made special by the situation she finds herself in. She just happens to be Spock's sister. She just happens to be the 'daughter' of the mirror Emperor. She just happens to be the daughter of the Red Angel.
To use your DS9 analogy, it would be like a wormhole magically opening up everywhere DS9 went because the station was just so cool and magical.
Your interpretation is flawed.
The whole Red Angel thing revolving around Burnham is because her mother happened to be the one to steal the suit. If the Klingons had gotten it, the plot would revolve around some Klingon house. If another scientist had taken it, it would have probably involved that scientist's progeny. Burnham isn't "inevitable", she's the logical consequence of the situation.
And why is it so significant that she's Spock's foster sister, other than it being a background detail (that she used to completely TRIBBLE up her life in the pilot, because like you she assumes she's the linchpin to everything)? He was useful in interpreting the Angel's intentions, but without him somebody would have figured it out from the available clues. Pike is hampered by his respect for the chain of command, but he's not stupid.
As for the relationship with the Empress, that's because the Mirror Universe reflects the Prime Universe in some really statistically improbable ways, including Spock being a trusted confidante ("friend" might be too far in the Empire) of Kirk (at least until Prime!Kirk told Mirror!Spock about the Tantalus Device), and all the same people being aboard the same ships. (I mean, at least with NX-01 Archer was the first officer until Forrest's assassination, but the crew was still the same, including T'pol.) Therefore, since the Prime timeline has Capt. Georgiou as Michael Burnham's mentor in Starfleet, the Mirror timeline would have Empress Phillippa mentoring Mirror!Burnham to be her heir. (Of course, ethics being what they are in the MU, that bit Phillippa in the TRIBBLE, but hey, you can't make an omelette without phasering a few eggs, right?)
i care less about whatever relationship mirror georgiou had with mirror burnham and more about what she taught those two orions she...liasoned...with
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I get it Jon. I get that there is a story explanation for each of these plot points. The problem (to me) is what I said in my previous post:
Yeah, it's not that this has never happened before; it's that it has never happened this much proportionately. They have stuffed an entire 7 seasons worth of "special character does special things" into just 2 seasons. And like anything else in life, the amount matters a lot. Yes I like salt on my food, but not an entire shaker.
Imagine if Disco were still in the concept phase and the community was just spitballing ideas. Now imagine someone says the show should be about a burnham type character that all of the main plot points revolve around by some kind of universal "fate". And imagine they said there should be this many examples crammed into the first 2 seasons. How many people do you think would actually like that idea? Far fewer than are defending it now, I guarantee you.
See that 2nd paragraph above? There is no way you would think this was actually a good idea if someone was pushing it before the show came out, and you know it.
You mean like how the TV execs didn't think TOS would work before release? Or how nobody thought a Superhero movie could be good after Batman and Robin until Spider-Man (2002)? Saying "no one would have called it a good idea before" isn't a particularly good argument.
> @ryan218 said:
> You mean like how the TV execs didn't think TOS would work before release?
Nope, thats not what I am referring to.
No, that's pretty much analogous.
You don't mind that Picard is the focus of TNG, even to the point that he's the only Human capable of facing off against (and impressing) Q, as well as successfully negotiating with the Sheliak with only a few hours' preparation and fighting off a Borg invasion of his ship with a holographic tommy gun (taking advantage of a Weaksauce Weakness that was never mentioned before). You don't mind that Sisko is a literal demigod, and that the Prophets arranged for his birth and the subsequent death of his wife specifically to put him into the correct position to fulfill prophecy. You don't even seem to mind that everything important that happened in the late 23rd century had to involve Jim Kirk.
But for some reason when the person involved is Michael Burnham, you lose all sense of perspective. Why is that, one might wonder?
> @ryan218 said:
> You mean like how the TV execs didn't think TOS would work before release?
Nope, thats not what I am referring to.
No, that's pretty much analogous.
You don't mind that Picard is the focus of TNG, even to the point that he's the only Human capable of facing off against (and impressing) Q, as well as successfully negotiating with the Sheliak with only a few hours' preparation and fighting off a Borg invasion of his ship with a holographic tommy gun (taking advantage of a Weaksauce Weakness that was never mentioned before). You don't mind that Sisko is a literal demigod, and that the Prophets arranged for his birth and the subsequent death of his wife specifically to put him into the correct position to fulfill prophecy. You don't even seem to mind that everything important that happened in the late 23rd century had to involve Jim Kirk.
But for some reason when the person involved is Michael Burnham, you lose all sense of perspective. Why is that, one might wonder?
It's clear we are going in circles when I can respond to you with what I have already said:
Yeah, it's not that this has never happened before; it's that it has never happened this much proportionately. They have stuffed an entire 7 seasons worth of "special character does special things" into just 2 seasons. And like anything else in life, the amount matters a lot. Yes I like salt on my food, but not an entire shaker.
No one denies there have been "special" characters before. They are simply cramming too much "special character does special things" into too little story-time for my personal taste.
But if you like an entire salt shaker dumped on your food, that's fine. Taste is subjective.
and yet...airiam was so ridiculously easy to corrupt and be turned against the federation because of that physiology
So? Ships still use computers which seem even more "ridiculously easy" to corrupt. How many times has the ship's computer been hijacked? Many, many more times than someone was harmed by direct input controls. Direct input controls are far more efficient than a whole wall of buttons or a flatscreen with a 20 submenu UI.
no way in hell the federation has any intention of developing direct interface technology for at least the next 150+ years (it did show up again in Endgame, or at least something similar, so their PTSD about it wasn't QUITE as bad as with augmentation, genesis, sapient computer systems and so on)
What PTSD? Who got PTSD? One cyborg came in contact with a super intelligent AI-who-is-not-an-AI-but-is-an-AI? How many of those are running around? Makes no sense. There should be direct input controls on all Starfleet ships and bases.
On top of this, Starfleet can take memories and convert them into a digital storage device! That is amazing! The ability to read memories and convert them into digital media is the first step in actual mind reading technology! Why isn't Starfleet using mind reading technology in other series of Star Trek? They clearly have the capability.
Airiam is a technological wonder! Why is she the only example of all this extraordinary technology? The Enterprise should have direct input controls and the main computer should read your mind and immediately anticipate your needs without verbal input.
Comments
But how is someone enhanced by having a pacemaker or artificial hip? The pacemaker or artificial hip doesn't make a person's life better than a perfectly healthy person while an artificial arm, artificial legs, or artificial eyes could improve a person's life based on how stronger, faster, or better eyesight the cybernetic augmentation provides. To be cybernetically enhanced, you need the cybernetics to provide an added benefit that is difficult or impossible for perfectly healthy humans.
The pacemaker actually can make a persons life better as it keeps the heart rate constant even when running or doing more strenuous exercise. An artificial hip I don't think is a cybernetic I think it would be a prosthetic. And no by definition you do not have to have added benefits that are impossible for a normal human to be cybernetically enhanced.
Cybernetically enhanced means that someone is enhanced through cybernetics not being able to live just like they used to. After all, how is someone enhanced by having a pacemaker, artificial limb, or artificial hip? Can a person run faster with a pacemaker or standard artificial legs? A pacemaker is no different from a prosthetic, they both provide a standard of living that the patient is used to. So if you consider a pacemaker to be a cybernetic, then an artificial hip is cybernetic as well. If there is no enhancement, then it is just cybernetics. If there is enhancement, then it is cybernetically enhanced or cybernetic augmentations.
Burnham assumes she's the most important person in the universe, responsible for every bad thing that happens. Some people are like that. Claiming she's of particular importance because her mother the Red Angel used memories of her as an anchor to sanity is akin to claiming that Enola TRIBBLE Tibbets won WW2 because her son flew the plane he named for her so carefully on that fateful August day.
-What prevented Mudd from winning during his time-travel loops that caused Discovery to keep getting blown up? Burnham convincing him she was very important.
-Who has part of Sarek's katra, allowing never-seen-before interstellar mental communications? Nope, not Spock, Burnham.
-Why does the Red Angel do her thing? Half to protect Burnham.
-Why is Mirror!Georgiou still alive and turning into a better person? Her love for Burnham.
-Who Saru chose to "kill" him during his vahar'ai, which is turn revealed the truth about the condition and thus freed the Kelpiens? Burnham.
-Who is the last physical being Airiam sees and begs for death to stop Control? Burnham.
-Who did Mirror!Lorca choose to help him (and grooming her in the process)? 2 Burnham's for the price of one.
-Project Daedalus? Burnham's parents.
-Who released Ripper? Burnham.
-One of the main reasons Voq failed to win his personality war against Tyler? Burnham.
-Who convinces Cornwell to stop the "render Qo'noS inhabitable" plan? Burnham.
-Who literally offers the key to Klingon Chancellorship to L'Rell? Burnham.
-Who managed the feat of making Mirror!Georgiou sound like the most reasonable character of the two crews during the "capture the Red Angel" plan? Burnham, by agreeing to such an incredibly stupid and painful way to endanger herself, that even Janeway in her worst moments would consider too insane.
While the "Main Characters do Eveything" trope isn't bad by itself and the previous Trek heroes were indulging in that a lot, too much of that can start making the whole thing very convoluted and contrived, making the main character go from "memetic badass" to "creator's pet/the Wesley".
Cybernetic Enhancements or Augmentations however suggest "better".
That said, even there, something like a pacemaker is at least "improving" the person to what it was before the pacemaker. It doesn't make the person superhuman, but at least its heart is working properly, where it was not before.
The same thing in theory for cybernetic eyes that make a blind able to see as good as a non-blind person.
Yeah, it's not that this has never happened before; it's that it has never happened this much proportionately. They have stuffed an entire 7 seasons worth of "special character does special things" into just 2 seasons. And like anything else in life, the amount matters a lot. Yes I like salt on my food, but not an entire shaker.
Imagine if Disco were still in the concept phase and the community was just spitballing ideas. Now imagine someone says the show should be about a burnham type character that all of the main plot points revolve around by some kind of universal "fate". And imagine they said there should be this many examples crammed into the first 2 seasons. How many people do you think would actually like that idea? Far fewer than are defending it now, I guarantee you.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
If Vulcans all shared a psychic link, then they would be more similar to Betazoids where it is not necessary to speak with other Betazoids. It is far more likely that hundreds of Vulcans dying at the same time would create an amplified psychic signal that is easier for Vulcans to detect rather than all Vulcans are sharing a psychic link. It is similar to the idea that some people can feel the horror in concentration camps after decades have past.
Sarek implanting part of Katra into Burnham makes far more sense since we have never seen interstellar telepathic communication with Vulcans or Mind Melded individuals in previous series. So it is possible that McCoy could have telepathically communicated with Spock if Spock accidentally forgot to retrieve a part of his Katra in McCoy.
Yes, in the event, Burnham is the point of those fixations, but it's her importance to them that brings that about, not her importance to the universe at large - Reality doesn't give a half a damn who she is. She's just too stubborn to admit it. That's what Spock called her out on - her insistence on shouldering burdens that aren't even hers to carry.
Airiam's husband? He's dead long before the series, but at least she is good friends with Tilly, Keyla and Joann, right? Oh wait, apart from Tilly, they have no development... and Airiam dies in the same episode where we learn something about her, anyway. Next!
Stamets and Culber? Well, it starts well and... oh wait, Culber dies. But wait, he gets resurrected! But wait, he's trying to bury his old life as being resurrected messed him up.
Lorca and Cornwell? Oh, it seems they were lovers and the horrors of the war has made him a different person to her and it is upsetting their relationship, good basis for an interesting story arOh wait, he's actually from the Mirror Universe... aaaaaand he's just a pinga... and he's dead now.
L'Rell and Tyler? Well, as Tyler has the memories of Voq but his human self is horrified by her. Sounds like a good premise for interesting character dev... aaaaaaaaand, they split up in the same episode and can't see each other ever again for risk of creating major issues in the Klingon Empire and he's presumed dead, too bad!
Tilly and May? Well, they were good friends once... and she died. And an alien is impersonating her, changing Tilly, possibly leaving a big impact to... aaaaaand issue solved, Tilly's back to normal!
Heck, while we're here: Michael and her mother? "Hi mom, bye mom, I love you, see you in another episode of another season, perhaps."
And Culber's issue isn't that he's "trying to bury his old life" - it's that he died, he was reborn in mycelial space where everything was trying to constantly eat him alive, he was trapped there for a prolonged period, and now his husband wants to just take up where they left off as if nothing had ever changed. Hugh Culber today is not the same man as Hugh Culber before all that, and Paul refuses to acknowledge that. Like any couple separated for a prolonged period, they're going to have to basically start courting again, learning anew who they are and who the other is today.
As for Voq and L'rell - I think we're going to see that revisited in the next ep, and we'll see first of all how much of Voq is still in Tyler, and secondly whether he actually loved L'rell, or if it was a simple matter of sexual tension caused by the situation. (People do sometimes experience that, you know, and it doesn't always lead to love in the long term. Love isn't just sex, and sex isn't always love.) As for the repulsion, if there's much of Voq left in Tyler, he can't be very happy about Tyler's feelings for Burnham either, a squishy Human enemy who doesn't even have a vestige of forehead ridges...
Heck, I wasn't even talking about love in the first place.
Well, focusing on Burnham is a part of the premise of Discovery - instead of focusing the story around the Captain and his senior officers, they wanted it to be focused about someone that is not in command - that someone is Burnham.
It is a bit like part of the premise of Deep Space Nine to differentiate itself from TNG was to set the story on a station, not on a starship. Of course, it did't end up being just one random station around some backwater world, it became an important station, the key to the Alpha Quadrant and the focus point of interstellar politics.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
You actually just hit the nail on the head, although it wasn't the nail you meant to hit.
The DS9 station was special because of the wormhole, not the other way around. ANY station that just so happened to be next to Bajor would have become important because of the gateway to the gamma quadrant. No, it wasn't the station that was special, it was where it was located.
Discovery does the opposite. They make Burnham special everywhere she goes, instead of letting her be made special by the situation she finds herself in. She just happens to be Spock's sister. She just happens to be the 'daughter' of the mirror Emperor. She just happens to be the daughter of the Red Angel.
To use your DS9 analogy, it would be like a wormhole magically opening up everywhere DS9 went because the station was just so cool and magical.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The Federation can directly interface instructions from a brain to a electro-mechanical device. Buttons, switches, even those impractical 3D holographic interfaces are no longer required. Just put your hand on a console and think about what you want to happen. All those consoles on the Enterprise, Enterprise A, Enterprise B, Enterprise C, Enterprise D, and Enterprise E should have all been direct interface consoles.
no way in hell the federation has any intention of developing direct interface technology for at least the next 150+ years (it did show up again in Endgame, or at least something similar, so their PTSD about it wasn't QUITE as bad as with augmentation, genesis, sapient computer systems and so on)
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The whole Red Angel thing revolving around Burnham is because her mother happened to be the one to steal the suit. If the Klingons had gotten it, the plot would revolve around some Klingon house. If another scientist had taken it, it would have probably involved that scientist's progeny. Burnham isn't "inevitable", she's the logical consequence of the situation.
And why is it so significant that she's Spock's foster sister, other than it being a background detail (that she used to completely TRIBBLE up her life in the pilot, because like you she assumes she's the linchpin to everything)? He was useful in interpreting the Angel's intentions, but without him somebody would have figured it out from the available clues. Pike is hampered by his respect for the chain of command, but he's not stupid.
As for the relationship with the Empress, that's because the Mirror Universe reflects the Prime Universe in some really statistically improbable ways, including Spock being a trusted confidante ("friend" might be too far in the Empire) of Kirk (at least until Prime!Kirk told Mirror!Spock about the Tantalus Device), and all the same people being aboard the same ships. (I mean, at least with NX-01 Archer was the first officer until Forrest's assassination, but the crew was still the same, including T'pol.) Therefore, since the Prime timeline has Capt. Georgiou as Michael Burnham's mentor in Starfleet, the Mirror timeline would have Empress Phillippa mentoring Mirror!Burnham to be her heir. (Of course, ethics being what they are in the MU, that bit Phillippa in the TRIBBLE, but hey, you can't make an omelette without phasering a few eggs, right?)
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I get it Jon. I get that there is a story explanation for each of these plot points. The problem (to me) is what I said in my previous post:
See that 2nd paragraph above? There is no way you would think this was actually a good idea if someone was pushing it before the show came out, and you know it.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
> You mean like how the TV execs didn't think TOS would work before release?
Nope, thats not what I am referring to.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
You don't mind that Picard is the focus of TNG, even to the point that he's the only Human capable of facing off against (and impressing) Q, as well as successfully negotiating with the Sheliak with only a few hours' preparation and fighting off a Borg invasion of his ship with a holographic tommy gun (taking advantage of a Weaksauce Weakness that was never mentioned before). You don't mind that Sisko is a literal demigod, and that the Prophets arranged for his birth and the subsequent death of his wife specifically to put him into the correct position to fulfill prophecy. You don't even seem to mind that everything important that happened in the late 23rd century had to involve Jim Kirk.
But for some reason when the person involved is Michael Burnham, you lose all sense of perspective. Why is that, one might wonder?
It's clear we are going in circles when I can respond to you with what I have already said:
No one denies there have been "special" characters before. They are simply cramming too much "special character does special things" into too little story-time for my personal taste.
But if you like an entire salt shaker dumped on your food, that's fine. Taste is subjective.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
What PTSD? Who got PTSD? One cyborg came in contact with a super intelligent AI-who-is-not-an-AI-but-is-an-AI? How many of those are running around? Makes no sense. There should be direct input controls on all Starfleet ships and bases.
On top of this, Starfleet can take memories and convert them into a digital storage device! That is amazing! The ability to read memories and convert them into digital media is the first step in actual mind reading technology! Why isn't Starfleet using mind reading technology in other series of Star Trek? They clearly have the capability.
Airiam is a technological wonder! Why is she the only example of all this extraordinary technology? The Enterprise should have direct input controls and the main computer should read your mind and immediately anticipate your needs without verbal input.