This is a quality of life improvement. It lets un-geared people unwilling to read up or view up on the TFOs the chance to stay in normal difficulty instead of making PUGs fail in advanced and elite. Good for the lazy player, good for the other people in the queue that would have failed because of them.
Pretty much this. The Endeavors are not the reason that players are not creating more powerful builds. The game is designed so that if you don't have the best of the best, you can still play and get what you need one way or another. It is designed to allow for different players. Whether it is hard core gamers, or casual gamers, everyone can have some sort of power creep to get that feeling of progression, or advancement.
This has allowed the game to be played by so many different types of players. And if they want to fly with the build they have, even if it is not the best one, then they can. It was like that when I first played in 2012, and after being gone for about 4 years, it is still the same. I believe it has helped the game stay alive so long, because not just hard core gamers have spent money on the game. Even newer ships and ship traits have allowed players to get more power creep without working on trying to get good builds.
However, if you lock some of the content behind Elite difficulty, then a lot of those players that want that reward, even though they probably would have never selected Elite otherwise, will be in TFOs that they are going to be good in. That means that the players that do have the best builds they can get are going to have to carry their load in the mission. Then, there would be people coming to the forums to complain that they had players with horrible builds in Elites with them, and they should have never been there.
While I personally believe that they messed up by first adding the upgrade system like they did, instead of making it a proficiency system that allows for slow, steady, and manageable power creep, I think that this is probably the best option here. It keeps them from going into Elite TFOs, being carried by other players, getting the same reward, and still using the same build afterwards they most likely would have anyways.
Razar.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
I only do adv/hard endeavours anyway, easy or the general one only if its on my route, so to speak - neither easy or the general endeavour is worth going out the way for if you think in pure time investment to reward ratio
I am no where even remotely near elite anubis. I refuse to parse dps, I use off meta builds, I exclusively pug TFOs, and not once have I ever insulted or berated any other players in a TFO. None of that changes the plain fact that I learned by failing and by listening to other players. I did not get better by coming here and demanding things be made easier, nor do I support anyone who does.
So your reply is still 'git gud', over balancing the gameplay to what the developers think will attract and keep the largest number of players?
I for one hate any forum poster that comes in and demands anything from anyone, it's just silly and rude.
Not everyone plays a game like this to 'git gud' some of them just play to live in Star Trek for a while instead of the real world.
They have no obligation to become better at the game, because it is simply not the reason they play.
During the happy fun time many people us to play this game, they don't want to feel like the boss is waiting to fire them for failing.
So, since it is a game and is entertainment, Cryptic has on many ocsasions decided they like those players and cater to them in many ways.
What one person sees as a positve balancing pass another sees as a nerf and another sees as a 'deal-breaker', simply because of each individuals life outlook and attitude, it has very little to do with Cryptic or other players.
Not everyone plays games to progress thier DPS output in an effort to avoid being shamed by elitists for being carried.
First, some folks need to dial it way back in here. If I see anymore name calling then either the mod sword or the thread lock will come out, and I would rather not do that.
Now with the unpleasantness out of the way, in no way whatsoever does this have anything to do with encouraging any types of builds good or bad. Once or twice I had gotten an endeavor that wanted me to complete certain TFOs or a certain amount of TFOs. If for example on the medium endeavor it said to complete the Gateway to Grethor queue, that would be all it said and it wouldn't specify a difficulty at all. This would mean I SHOULD have been able to join even a basic normal mode of the queue and get it done, however that's not what was happening. Instead it was only counting if I did it on advanced or elite, thus essentially placing a hidden requirement on the endeavor that I was unable to see. The same thing was true with hard endeavors that wanted me to complete 3 TFOs, it would only count if I did it on advanced or elite, thus placing a hidden requirement on them. This change/update guarantees that will not happen again. If folks want to complete the queue on advanced or elite they will still be able to. If they want to just roll through it on normal, they can do that to now. All this change does it remove the hidden requirement that would sometimes show up and essentially give people options.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
On a couple of TFO endeavors I had to queue for advanced just to get them to pop. Thankfully my build can get through an advanced one without too much trouble, but I would never go elite with it. I would rather go normal if I had a choice, but normal wasn't popping.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
First, some folks need to dial it way back in here. If I see anymore name calling then either the mod sword or the thread lock will come out, and I would rather not do that.
Now with the unpleasantness out of the way, in no way whatsoever does this have anything to do with encouraging any types of builds good or bad. Once or twice I had gotten an endeavor that wanted me to complete certain TFOs or a certain amount of TFOs. If for example on the medium endeavor it said to complete the Gateway to Grethor queue, that would be all it said and it wouldn't specify a difficulty at all. This would mean I SHOULD have been able to join even a basic normal mode of the queue and get it done, however that's not what was happening. Instead it was only counting if I did it on advanced or elite, thus essentially placing a hidden requirement on the endeavor that I was unable to see. The same thing was true with hard endeavors that wanted me to complete 3 TFOs, it would only count if I did it on advanced or elite, thus placing a hidden requirement on them. This change/update guarantees that will not happen again. If folks want to complete the queue on advanced or elite they will still be able to. If they want to just roll through it on normal, they can do that to now. All this change does it remove the hidden requirement that would sometimes show up and essentially give people options.
That's what I was getting at in my post. Previously to this, one didn't need much to play. I mean, it was episodes and red alerts, isa, and cca. You know, nothing that required much of anything at all. Plus as you said, it was a hidden requirement, and from the way it seemed in the patch notes, one they was not intended.
Back on topic here. Now, with the new TFO and Personal Endeavor systems, if gives more people reason to play. Because now, we can queue up at get a random TFO that hasn't been played in ages. Which means, more people are starting to run into those of us using the better builds. So they get a look at how different things are, which gives them at least room to think about what they can do to improve.
I've been working on alts more now, because I don't have to bore myself with the red alert, isa, and cca easy mode mark farm. I've ran in to some in these where I think, "How exactly are you even surviving the episodes?", and this is in normal. Generally just watching this, a lot of it isn't even their build. A lot of it, let me re-iterate that, a LOT of it is due to lack of player knowledge on how to complete these. Again, refer to the easy mode mark farm previously mentioned. Sometimes directingthings a bit is all you need to do.
Some are even running the TFO's to get better gear until they get the reputations open. Like for example, I got another Azure Nebula yesterday. I rolled on a set of DHC's that dropped and won. Someone that needed them, went off a bit in team chat about it. I accidentally equipped them while going to link them, to see if that's what they meant, and then trade/mail them to the other player. Once I was out, I went to the exchange and bought some Mk XII VR versions of them, and explained what happened via PM and mailed the ones I bought over. Because I remember what it's like being in these while working on gear. This is just some food for thought.
Making things "more achievable" was the excuse for removing needed fail conditions from TFOs. It was TRIBBLE then and it's TRIBBLE now. Like Yoda said, failure is the greatest teacher.
At the same time... fail conditions made them way too easy to TROLL. Failing while actually trying is a learning experience... but you learn NOTHING if someone is out to fail you ON PURPOSE. Only thing it teaches you is "Don't PUG if you ever want to get anything done." Which in turn leads to dead queues.
Back when they had fail conditions in Infected, I had a run where 4/5 of the team actually did try to do the mission, but that one guy decided to be a total TROLL, go to the OTHER side, and pop a transformer "looking for his spec point". He even SAID that he was "looking for his spec point" in team chat. He failed us ON PURPOSE for his own amusement. and 4 players ended up with a 30 minute cooldown with nothing to show for it.
Correction, it made ISA somewhat easy to troll. Only ISA, and only somewhat. Because of complacent players being used to everyone automatically going for the left transformer first.
I had someone attack the wrong transformer once, too. I don't know if it was on purpose or if it was just some newbie, they didn't say anything. Of course, if they had said something, I would've noticed in time and we wouldn't have lost. The next time I paid more attention to what the others were doing, because other people don't automatically do what you assume them to. That's what it should've taught people. As opposed to "go to the forums to whine you don't win every time."
Although in all honesty, the ISA objective is nonsense only worthy of being a peanut optional. I mean come on, what is the military significance of the spheres healing the transfo? It's a bragging rights objective.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Correction, it made ISA somewhat easy to troll. Only ISA, and only somewhat. Because of complacent players being used to everyone automatically going for the left transformer first.
I had someone attack the wrong transformer once, too. I don't know if it was on purpose or if it was just some newbie, they didn't say anything. Of course, if they had said something, I would've noticed in time and we wouldn't have lost. The next time I paid more attention to what the others were doing, because other people don't automatically do what you assume them to. That's what it should've taught people. As opposed to "go to the forums to whine you don't win every time."
Although in all honesty, the ISA objective is nonsense only worthy of being a peanut optional. I mean come on, what is the military significance of the spheres healing the transfo? It's a bragging rights objective.
Somewhat easy to Troll? No... it was a big sign saying "come and Troll me HARD". And I am not whining. I'm pointing out an instance where it was legit Trolled to the detriment of the team. That guy purposefully failed us. And it was not complacency that did it. It was that guy going out of his way to troll for his own amusement.
And back then... it wasn't a "peanut optional". It may be NOW, but back when Delta Rising came out, that was a REQUIRED objective on ADVANCED. You HAD to do it or you Failed. And he purposefully did it to fail us. THAT is the point.
Yes there are inexperienced people who may not know the tactics, but there are also those who do know the tactics but decide to basically flip the bird at their teammates and basically say "sukz 2 b U SUCKER!". And if there is a fail mechanic that easy to exploit... they WILL exploit it all to hell "for teh lulz".
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I think the connection between endeavours and players sticking with 'bad builds' is flimsy at best, completely imaginary in reality.
I'm also skeptical of this rTFO trolling that you've tried to make the thread complain about instead of the original point. I have definitely seen players that had never done some of them before, and I've seen AFK players but I've never seen a player going out of their way to ruin a group on purpose. Could you be convincing yourself of another weird correlation between two unconnected things?
Correction, it made ISA somewhat easy to troll. Only ISA, and only somewhat. Because of complacent players being used to everyone automatically going for the left transformer first.
I had someone attack the wrong transformer once, too. I don't know if it was on purpose or if it was just some newbie, they didn't say anything. Of course, if they had said something, I would've noticed in time and we wouldn't have lost. The next time I paid more attention to what the others were doing, because other people don't automatically do what you assume them to. That's what it should've taught people. As opposed to "go to the forums to whine you don't win every time."
Although in all honesty, the ISA objective is nonsense only worthy of being a peanut optional. I mean come on, what is the military significance of the spheres healing the transfo? It's a bragging rights objective.
Somewhat easy to Troll? No... it was a big sign saying "come and Troll me HARD". And I am not whining. I'm pointing out an instance where it was legit Trolled to the detriment of the team. That guy purposefully failed us. And it was not complacency that did it. It was that guy going out of his way to troll for his own amusement.
Someone shooting the wrong generator is not an unrecoverable mistake. If you notice it in time, it can be corrected for.
And back then... it wasn't a "peanut optional". It may be NOW, but back when Delta Rising came out, that was a REQUIRED objective on ADVANCED. You HAD to do it or you Failed. And he purposefully did it to fail us. THAT is the point.
Yes. The objective wasn't worthy of being any more than what it is now. THAT is the point.
Yes there are inexperienced people who may not know the tactics, but there are also those who do know the tactics but decide to basically flip the bird at their teammates and basically say "sukz 2 b U SUCKER!". And if there is a fail mechanic that easy to exploit... they WILL exploit it all to hell "for teh lulz".
And here you are, still giving them their "lulz" by getting all worked up over it years later. Yet however many times I've heard that same "spec point" story repeated, it's still just the one guy in one instance of one queue. Hardly relevant.
"That guy" doesn't matter. So what if the generator got killed early on purpose or not, what matters is spotting it in time and countering it. Or it did when the objective itself mattered anyway.
Players don't always follow the strategy you expect. Sometimes even on purpose. War is not a scripted sequence, must pay attention and adapt when things go wrong.
And people were whining to hell and back when DR released, but not about "trolls." Just not being able to win every time in general. Just like they are still whining about this or that queue not being auto-win enough even though they are now all impossible to actually lose.
I think the connection between endeavours and players sticking with 'bad builds' is flimsy at best, completely imaginary in reality.
I'm also skeptical of this rTFO trolling that you've tried to make the thread complain about instead of the original point. I have definitely seen players that had never done some of them before, and I've seen AFK players but I've never seen a player going out of their way to ruin a group on purpose. Could you be convincing yourself of another weird correlation between two unconnected things?
I don't recall seeing it personally, but no, they are not making a 'weird' correlation. I don't know what fantasy world you play STO in, but in every game, there are genuine arseholes who take perverse pleasure in ruining the game for others.
Speaking for myself I think a lot of the time people come here to vent. They encounter something annoying in the game, and this is the only place to sound off. In my case it's usually about missions that merit nerfing and while I usually give some explanation, folk largely disagree with my position because their own experiences differ. My last thread was ... of a more constructive nature - asking for advice, and yet responses were ... limited.
At present each thread on the first page of results has 44 responses, if you average out only the bottom half it's 9 - there's a couple of rather popular threads! While there are 4 other threads with a mere 3 responses it's pretty pitiful. As for the actual content of responses, it wasn't trolling, but it didn't really answer my question either which was asking what the best (tetryon) beam array is. One chap shared his experience with getting fleet phaser beams and that he does 20,000 base dps. That's great for him but I don't know how his dps is so high. With Epic\VR Mk XIV weapons and consoles I'm only well something like half that best case scenario. Another suggested using Tyken's Rift - a nice enough power I guess, but what does it have to do with beam arrays? The final post gave phaser\disruptor suggestions, but not tetryon. Useful for other toons not the one I'm trying to enhance. Maybe I needed to narrow the question? My point is even if you ask for build advice here you may or may not get anything particularly useful, and ingame is arguably worse - most PUGs don't communicate at all. Highly populated areas e.g. ESD, might offer advice, but chat there can be pretty toxic so it's a tossup as to whether you actually want to venture into chat there.
In short, since builds are so infernally complex, advice so limited, and goals so disparate, whining about seeing poor builds seems more like ego tripping, or is that just me?
Most likely: there is nothing to build up Tetryon damage except the usual tactical consoles.
Not all energy types are equal. Some have consoles, and sets that build them up. So, there is nothing to tell you other than to switch to one that does have it.
Players are of the mind to switch to what is most effective ("meta") not stick to unused, old stuff.
If you wish to "go off the reservation" and use something different....check the Wiki under Tetryon and they will list things that will buff it. Otherwise, there is nothing to build for. Pick whatever and go for it.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
> @tasshena said: > kragtast wrote: » > > I think the connection between endeavours and players sticking with 'bad builds' is flimsy at best, completely imaginary in reality. > > I'm also skeptical of this rTFO trolling that you've tried to make the thread complain about instead of the original point. I have definitely seen players that had never done some of them before, and I've seen AFK players but I've never seen a player going out of their way to ruin a group on purpose. Could you be convincing yourself of another weird correlation between two unconnected things? > > > > > I don't recall seeing it personally, but no, they are not making a 'weird' correlation. I don't know what fantasy world you play STO in, but in every game, there are genuine arseholes who take perverse pleasure in ruining the game for others.
Then let me know when you do because this thread right now is a bunch of assumptions and heresay complaining about functionally nothing
This game has already been balanced around a level of casual gaming that puts mobile gamers to shame. That includes the idles games where the whole point of the game is to NOT PLAY THE FRAKING GAME. Like seriously, I play games pretty casually and I can EASILY beat advanced with common mark XII gear. Hell with the utter lack of fail conditions technically I could elite storymode this way...just takes a really long time. So yeah there is a small amount of git gud...because seriously...the difficulty level of this game is a freaking joke. If you seriously do not want to put in the miniscule amount of effort this game needs...really games just might not be your thing.
I agree that some level of effort is needed to put into interactive entertainment for the best results.
IME, there are a lot of players that still want more passive entertainment, and Cryptic has providded it, so those players are part of the target market.
Shaming them, in any way, is simply not productive and IMO rude.
If you don't like someones playstyle, then do not play with them.
I love to push my DPS, but I have never and will never comment on someone else's group contribution, it serves no purpose other than an attempt to make another human feel bad, which is rude.
I do about 2-3x the combined DPS of the teams I am on for most TFOs.
I get my marks, the other players get thiers, we all say GG and move on with life.
IMO, the entire 'git gud' idea is product of the FUD a small portion of MMO players who have wrapped up thier personal well-being on the pixels of a game world. IMO, it is an unhealthy and destructive force in gaming.
Competitive, ecouraging fun is one thing, shaming others over how they play a game is rude and disgusting.
Most likely: there is nothing to build up Tetryon damage except the usual tactical consoles.
Not all energy types are equal. Some have consoles, and sets that build them up. So, there is nothing to tell you other than to switch to one that does have it.
Players are of the mind to switch to what is most effective ("meta") not stick to unused, old stuff.
If you wish to "go off the reservation" and use something different....check the Wiki under Tetryon and they will list things that will buff it. Otherwise, there is nothing to build for. Pick whatever and go for it.
There is one thing about Tetryon that most over look, just like with the Polaron weapons that has it, the Drain skill helps them out. Since both do drain shield or subsystem power. However it is true you can't build straight up dps with them. They may not be meta, but they are far from useless.
But again it's also true there isn't a lot out there, set wise, that helps Tetryon.
I have one of my Science Officers setup with a Tetryon build. I haven't reskilled to grab some points in the drain skill. However I did look toward sets that offer DrainX, with a Science ship, add in a Secondary Deflector with DrainX, and shields just don't last long. I'm still working on it, it's all still in the Mk X-XII range and I'm seeing 1700 on crits, which is respectable for a beam array.
Like you, I'm not a meta chaser. I don't use the "meta"' builds, cause, I'm not a cardboard copy of someone else. I never will be. I use crafted weapons most of the time, as fillers, while I figure out what weapons I actually want to use. I also do not use Fleet powercreep gear, not even the extra trait slot. I will buy traits that catch my interest and use them, that's the extent of my all my characters. The only "fleet" gear I own, are a couple of TR-116B's I bought back when they were fleet gear. I also don't build for the "Moar DPS" crutch the game and good portion of the community lean on.
Though, lets leave the No Captain Left behind program alone, shall we. Sure, the lack of fail conditions irks me too. But then, we also don't deal with a whole lot of complaints about things being "to hard." I mean think about it, if the the newer player that came in after the change, had to deal with the fail conditions that we did back when we had the Borg Elites, there would be a lot more of that going on. I mean, it cropped up again, and rather often and loudly, when the fail conditions in Advanced cropped up with the Iconian War. People just can't handle failure any more It's sad, but true. If current players had to go through the Borg Elites, like the older players did, there would be much screaming and gnashing of teeth. It's not like they could handle the fail conditions, much less the fact that all ships back then, lockbox or the freebie promotions were the same. Nor that fact you had a few traits you could pick, that you had to split between ground and space, without ship mastery, ship traits, ground rep traits, space rep traits, active reputation traits, specializations. T5U or T6 ships. Th is just something we're going to have to overlook, as they continue to make the game easier with each passing year. Like me, I've actually found ways to have fun with it, especially the new RTFO's. One of the pewfest maps pops up, I make fun o if it by saying, "Get your pewfest on." On maps with more mechanical things to do, I direct traffic to keep things going in the right direction.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Most likely: there is nothing to build up Tetryon damage except the usual tactical consoles.
Not all energy types are equal. Some have consoles, and sets that build them up. So, there is nothing to tell you other than to switch to one that does have it.
Players are of the mind to switch to what is most effective ("meta") not stick to unused, old stuff.
If you wish to "go off the reservation" and use something different....check the Wiki under Tetryon and they will list things that will buff it. Otherwise, there is nothing to build for. Pick whatever and go for it.
There are things that boost Tetryon. The free Tzenkethi set I believe has a 3 piece set bonus, and there are a couple consoles that are arouond. And thanks to T6 Reps a couple of the rep sets have Tetryon as an option too. Right now I think its Plasma that has the least amount of things that boost it,
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
My Main right now is tooling around in the Vorgon Xyfius armed with Tetryon and has no problems at all.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You really must be something special, to have people choose alternative playstyles just to ruin your day. Come now, do you really believe that? I promise you're making false connections and convincing yourself of something ridiculous.
As a returning player existing advanced content got a lot tougher. I think there's good evidence that to handle more advanced content you'll need a half competitive build.
You really must be something special, to have people choose alternative playstyles just to ruin your day. Come now, do you really believe that? I promise you're making false connections and convincing yourself of something ridiculous.
As a returning player existing advanced content got a lot tougher. I think there's good evidence that to handle more advanced content you'll need a half competitive build.
No, not really. They just made the NPCs do more damage and beefed up their HP and shields, everything else is still the same.
The weakest point in it all is the lack of player knowledge on how to deal with the Advanced. Add to that a general lack of situational awareness. Again, something we don't see a lot of in the episodes. I mean if you think about it, the only things we have, that have situational awareness involved in them...
1- The Temporal bubble thing in Survivor.
2- The Temple on Kobali
3- The Jumping puzzle and subsequent find it in Tenbris Tourquet
4- A bit in What Lies Beneath, mainly this is just not getting lost due to lack of minimap.
Outside of this, there's really nothing that you have to be aware of. Where as the TFO's have this. The mechanics are simple, some take a bit more awareness and practice. But, not something you generally run into in the episodes. It's one of those things that separate the TFO's and episodes. Because there's just not a lot in the episodes that you deal with in TFO's.
Plus there is the teamwork required for TFO's, that you won't find in any of the episodes. You'll find it in the battlezones though, well somewhat any how. Some battlezones a pretty easy to solo. Others, the extra help is appreciated.
Also, as @coldnapalm pointed out, those that use the 'git gud' attitude here, are just the ones that don't tend to help others get better. Or to help them find the playstyle that is right for them. Because, let's just admit it, between the skill tree, traits, specializations, gear, ships and abilities, there are a great many ways for one to play. With just a little work, and attentiveness to setup, all are viable in one way or another. The DPS setups are just the easiest way to get there.
I'm sorry...but there is a difference between I don't wanna DPS chase and play storymode in my canon setup ship and I don't want to bother even putting in the absolutely tiny amount of effort this game needs so I want the devs to change this game to mu whims. When they don't whine to make the game easier than it is...I have no issue with people who want to play the way they want. When they don't want to start excluding people who are better than them because it makes them feelsbad I don't care if they play the way they want. The git gud mostly in this forum at this time is reserved for players who want to do bad things to this game because they can't be bothered to put in the TINY amount of effort that this game needs. It wasn't always the case...but for now, the git gud for the most part is reserved for those players.
So your answer continues to be 'if you do not expend the amount of effort I think you should, you are doing it wrong.'
OK.
That does not make shaming others for not clicking on pixels the way you want them to any less repugnant to me.
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The Borg Assimilator
Live Long and Prosper.🖖[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Pretty much this. The Endeavors are not the reason that players are not creating more powerful builds. The game is designed so that if you don't have the best of the best, you can still play and get what you need one way or another. It is designed to allow for different players. Whether it is hard core gamers, or casual gamers, everyone can have some sort of power creep to get that feeling of progression, or advancement.
This has allowed the game to be played by so many different types of players. And if they want to fly with the build they have, even if it is not the best one, then they can. It was like that when I first played in 2012, and after being gone for about 4 years, it is still the same. I believe it has helped the game stay alive so long, because not just hard core gamers have spent money on the game. Even newer ships and ship traits have allowed players to get more power creep without working on trying to get good builds.
However, if you lock some of the content behind Elite difficulty, then a lot of those players that want that reward, even though they probably would have never selected Elite otherwise, will be in TFOs that they are going to be good in. That means that the players that do have the best builds they can get are going to have to carry their load in the mission. Then, there would be people coming to the forums to complain that they had players with horrible builds in Elites with them, and they should have never been there.
While I personally believe that they messed up by first adding the upgrade system like they did, instead of making it a proficiency system that allows for slow, steady, and manageable power creep, I think that this is probably the best option here. It keeps them from going into Elite TFOs, being carried by other players, getting the same reward, and still using the same build afterwards they most likely would have anyways.
Razar.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
So your reply is still 'git gud', over balancing the gameplay to what the developers think will attract and keep the largest number of players?
I for one hate any forum poster that comes in and demands anything from anyone, it's just silly and rude.
Not everyone plays a game like this to 'git gud' some of them just play to live in Star Trek for a while instead of the real world.
They have no obligation to become better at the game, because it is simply not the reason they play.
During the happy fun time many people us to play this game, they don't want to feel like the boss is waiting to fire them for failing.
So, since it is a game and is entertainment, Cryptic has on many ocsasions decided they like those players and cater to them in many ways.
What one person sees as a positve balancing pass another sees as a nerf and another sees as a 'deal-breaker', simply because of each individuals life outlook and attitude, it has very little to do with Cryptic or other players.
Not everyone plays games to progress thier DPS output in an effort to avoid being shamed by elitists for being carried.
Now with the unpleasantness out of the way, in no way whatsoever does this have anything to do with encouraging any types of builds good or bad. Once or twice I had gotten an endeavor that wanted me to complete certain TFOs or a certain amount of TFOs. If for example on the medium endeavor it said to complete the Gateway to Grethor queue, that would be all it said and it wouldn't specify a difficulty at all. This would mean I SHOULD have been able to join even a basic normal mode of the queue and get it done, however that's not what was happening. Instead it was only counting if I did it on advanced or elite, thus essentially placing a hidden requirement on the endeavor that I was unable to see. The same thing was true with hard endeavors that wanted me to complete 3 TFOs, it would only count if I did it on advanced or elite, thus placing a hidden requirement on them. This change/update guarantees that will not happen again. If folks want to complete the queue on advanced or elite they will still be able to. If they want to just roll through it on normal, they can do that to now. All this change does it remove the hidden requirement that would sometimes show up and essentially give people options.
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That's what I was getting at in my post. Previously to this, one didn't need much to play. I mean, it was episodes and red alerts, isa, and cca. You know, nothing that required much of anything at all. Plus as you said, it was a hidden requirement, and from the way it seemed in the patch notes, one they was not intended.
Back on topic here. Now, with the new TFO and Personal Endeavor systems, if gives more people reason to play. Because now, we can queue up at get a random TFO that hasn't been played in ages. Which means, more people are starting to run into those of us using the better builds. So they get a look at how different things are, which gives them at least room to think about what they can do to improve.
I've been working on alts more now, because I don't have to bore myself with the red alert, isa, and cca easy mode mark farm. I've ran in to some in these where I think, "How exactly are you even surviving the episodes?", and this is in normal. Generally just watching this, a lot of it isn't even their build. A lot of it, let me re-iterate that, a LOT of it is due to lack of player knowledge on how to complete these. Again, refer to the easy mode mark farm previously mentioned. Sometimes directingthings a bit is all you need to do.
Some are even running the TFO's to get better gear until they get the reputations open. Like for example, I got another Azure Nebula yesterday. I rolled on a set of DHC's that dropped and won. Someone that needed them, went off a bit in team chat about it. I accidentally equipped them while going to link them, to see if that's what they meant, and then trade/mail them to the other player. Once I was out, I went to the exchange and bought some Mk XII VR versions of them, and explained what happened via PM and mailed the ones I bought over. Because I remember what it's like being in these while working on gear. This is just some food for thought.
I had someone attack the wrong transformer once, too. I don't know if it was on purpose or if it was just some newbie, they didn't say anything. Of course, if they had said something, I would've noticed in time and we wouldn't have lost. The next time I paid more attention to what the others were doing, because other people don't automatically do what you assume them to. That's what it should've taught people. As opposed to "go to the forums to whine you don't win every time."
Although in all honesty, the ISA objective is nonsense only worthy of being a peanut optional. I mean come on, what is the military significance of the spheres healing the transfo? It's a bragging rights objective.
Somewhat easy to Troll? No... it was a big sign saying "come and Troll me HARD". And I am not whining. I'm pointing out an instance where it was legit Trolled to the detriment of the team. That guy purposefully failed us. And it was not complacency that did it. It was that guy going out of his way to troll for his own amusement.
And back then... it wasn't a "peanut optional". It may be NOW, but back when Delta Rising came out, that was a REQUIRED objective on ADVANCED. You HAD to do it or you Failed. And he purposefully did it to fail us. THAT is the point.
Yes there are inexperienced people who may not know the tactics, but there are also those who do know the tactics but decide to basically flip the bird at their teammates and basically say "sukz 2 b U SUCKER!". And if there is a fail mechanic that easy to exploit... they WILL exploit it all to hell "for teh lulz".
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colored text = mod mode
I'm also skeptical of this rTFO trolling that you've tried to make the thread complain about instead of the original point. I have definitely seen players that had never done some of them before, and I've seen AFK players but I've never seen a player going out of their way to ruin a group on purpose. Could you be convincing yourself of another weird correlation between two unconnected things?
Yes. The objective wasn't worthy of being any more than what it is now. THAT is the point.
And here you are, still giving them their "lulz" by getting all worked up over it years later. Yet however many times I've heard that same "spec point" story repeated, it's still just the one guy in one instance of one queue. Hardly relevant.
"That guy" doesn't matter. So what if the generator got killed early on purpose or not, what matters is spotting it in time and countering it. Or it did when the objective itself mattered anyway.
Players don't always follow the strategy you expect. Sometimes even on purpose. War is not a scripted sequence, must pay attention and adapt when things go wrong.
And people were whining to hell and back when DR released, but not about "trolls." Just not being able to win every time in general. Just like they are still whining about this or that queue not being auto-win enough even though they are now all impossible to actually lose.
I don't recall seeing it personally, but no, they are not making a 'weird' correlation. I don't know what fantasy world you play STO in, but in every game, there are genuine arseholes who take perverse pleasure in ruining the game for others.
(which can be any difficutly / b4 it was min advanced and only 1) bc some ppl couldnt complete advanced
there would ve been a number of different solutions without making this longer 4 everyone
but what bugs me even more is the lvl of trolling on these forums
thx 4 reminding me not to open any topics here (exept bug section maybe)
I see that contructive suggestions only draws ppl to derail the topic and get it closed
At present each thread on the first page of results has 44 responses, if you average out only the bottom half it's 9 - there's a couple of rather popular threads! While there are 4 other threads with a mere 3 responses it's pretty pitiful. As for the actual content of responses, it wasn't trolling, but it didn't really answer my question either which was asking what the best (tetryon) beam array is. One chap shared his experience with getting fleet phaser beams and that he does 20,000 base dps. That's great for him but I don't know how his dps is so high. With Epic\VR Mk XIV weapons and consoles I'm only well something like half that best case scenario. Another suggested using Tyken's Rift - a nice enough power I guess, but what does it have to do with beam arrays? The final post gave phaser\disruptor suggestions, but not tetryon. Useful for other toons not the one I'm trying to enhance. Maybe I needed to narrow the question? My point is even if you ask for build advice here you may or may not get anything particularly useful, and ingame is arguably worse - most PUGs don't communicate at all. Highly populated areas e.g. ESD, might offer advice, but chat there can be pretty toxic so it's a tossup as to whether you actually want to venture into chat there.
In short, since builds are so infernally complex, advice so limited, and goals so disparate, whining about seeing poor builds seems more like ego tripping, or is that just me?
Not all energy types are equal. Some have consoles, and sets that build them up. So, there is nothing to tell you other than to switch to one that does have it.
Players are of the mind to switch to what is most effective ("meta") not stick to unused, old stuff.
If you wish to "go off the reservation" and use something different....check the Wiki under Tetryon and they will list things that will buff it. Otherwise, there is nothing to build for. Pick whatever and go for it.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
> kragtast wrote: »
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> I think the connection between endeavours and players sticking with 'bad builds' is flimsy at best, completely imaginary in reality.
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> I'm also skeptical of this rTFO trolling that you've tried to make the thread complain about instead of the original point. I have definitely seen players that had never done some of them before, and I've seen AFK players but I've never seen a player going out of their way to ruin a group on purpose. Could you be convincing yourself of another weird correlation between two unconnected things?
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>
>
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> I don't recall seeing it personally, but no, they are not making a 'weird' correlation. I don't know what fantasy world you play STO in, but in every game, there are genuine arseholes who take perverse pleasure in ruining the game for others.
Then let me know when you do because this thread right now is a bunch of assumptions and heresay complaining about functionally nothing
I agree that some level of effort is needed to put into interactive entertainment for the best results.
IME, there are a lot of players that still want more passive entertainment, and Cryptic has providded it, so those players are part of the target market.
Shaming them, in any way, is simply not productive and IMO rude.
If you don't like someones playstyle, then do not play with them.
I love to push my DPS, but I have never and will never comment on someone else's group contribution, it serves no purpose other than an attempt to make another human feel bad, which is rude.
I do about 2-3x the combined DPS of the teams I am on for most TFOs.
I get my marks, the other players get thiers, we all say GG and move on with life.
IMO, the entire 'git gud' idea is product of the FUD a small portion of MMO players who have wrapped up thier personal well-being on the pixels of a game world. IMO, it is an unhealthy and destructive force in gaming.
Competitive, ecouraging fun is one thing, shaming others over how they play a game is rude and disgusting.
There is one thing about Tetryon that most over look, just like with the Polaron weapons that has it, the Drain skill helps them out. Since both do drain shield or subsystem power. However it is true you can't build straight up dps with them. They may not be meta, but they are far from useless.
But again it's also true there isn't a lot out there, set wise, that helps Tetryon.
I have one of my Science Officers setup with a Tetryon build. I haven't reskilled to grab some points in the drain skill. However I did look toward sets that offer DrainX, with a Science ship, add in a Secondary Deflector with DrainX, and shields just don't last long. I'm still working on it, it's all still in the Mk X-XII range and I'm seeing 1700 on crits, which is respectable for a beam array.
Like you, I'm not a meta chaser. I don't use the "meta"' builds, cause, I'm not a cardboard copy of someone else. I never will be. I use crafted weapons most of the time, as fillers, while I figure out what weapons I actually want to use. I also do not use Fleet powercreep gear, not even the extra trait slot. I will buy traits that catch my interest and use them, that's the extent of my all my characters. The only "fleet" gear I own, are a couple of TR-116B's I bought back when they were fleet gear. I also don't build for the "Moar DPS" crutch the game and good portion of the community lean on.
Though, lets leave the No Captain Left behind program alone, shall we. Sure, the lack of fail conditions irks me too. But then, we also don't deal with a whole lot of complaints about things being "to hard." I mean think about it, if the the newer player that came in after the change, had to deal with the fail conditions that we did back when we had the Borg Elites, there would be a lot more of that going on. I mean, it cropped up again, and rather often and loudly, when the fail conditions in Advanced cropped up with the Iconian War. People just can't handle failure any more It's sad, but true. If current players had to go through the Borg Elites, like the older players did, there would be much screaming and gnashing of teeth. It's not like they could handle the fail conditions, much less the fact that all ships back then, lockbox or the freebie promotions were the same. Nor that fact you had a few traits you could pick, that you had to split between ground and space, without ship mastery, ship traits, ground rep traits, space rep traits, active reputation traits, specializations. T5U or T6 ships. Th is just something we're going to have to overlook, as they continue to make the game easier with each passing year. Like me, I've actually found ways to have fun with it, especially the new RTFO's. One of the pewfest maps pops up, I make fun o if it by saying, "Get your pewfest on." On maps with more mechanical things to do, I direct traffic to keep things going in the right direction.
There are things that boost Tetryon. The free Tzenkethi set I believe has a 3 piece set bonus, and there are a couple consoles that are arouond. And thanks to T6 Reps a couple of the rep sets have Tetryon as an option too. Right now I think its Plasma that has the least amount of things that boost it,
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
As a returning player existing advanced content got a lot tougher. I think there's good evidence that to handle more advanced content you'll need a half competitive build.
No, not really. They just made the NPCs do more damage and beefed up their HP and shields, everything else is still the same.
The weakest point in it all is the lack of player knowledge on how to deal with the Advanced. Add to that a general lack of situational awareness. Again, something we don't see a lot of in the episodes. I mean if you think about it, the only things we have, that have situational awareness involved in them...
1- The Temporal bubble thing in Survivor.
2- The Temple on Kobali
3- The Jumping puzzle and subsequent find it in Tenbris Tourquet
4- A bit in What Lies Beneath, mainly this is just not getting lost due to lack of minimap.
Outside of this, there's really nothing that you have to be aware of. Where as the TFO's have this. The mechanics are simple, some take a bit more awareness and practice. But, not something you generally run into in the episodes. It's one of those things that separate the TFO's and episodes. Because there's just not a lot in the episodes that you deal with in TFO's.
Plus there is the teamwork required for TFO's, that you won't find in any of the episodes. You'll find it in the battlezones though, well somewhat any how. Some battlezones a pretty easy to solo. Others, the extra help is appreciated.
Also, as @coldnapalm pointed out, those that use the 'git gud' attitude here, are just the ones that don't tend to help others get better. Or to help them find the playstyle that is right for them. Because, let's just admit it, between the skill tree, traits, specializations, gear, ships and abilities, there are a great many ways for one to play. With just a little work, and attentiveness to setup, all are viable in one way or another. The DPS setups are just the easiest way to get there.
So your answer continues to be 'if you do not expend the amount of effort I think you should, you are doing it wrong.'
OK.
That does not make shaming others for not clicking on pixels the way you want them to any less repugnant to me.