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Star trek on ship AI
nickcastleton
Member Posts: 1,212 Arc User
in Ten Forward
One thing that puzzles me about star trek is the lack of ship artifical intellgance.
In other sci fis like halo and mass effect humanity has created Ai to serve on a ship these Ai normally perform tasks quicker than lviing beings and operate systems as if they are part of it (with hull is it skin the guns are its arms ect) yet star trek doesnt seem to address any species to have such technology.
Further more star treks computers seem rather limited constantly breaking down and only able to perform actions like a more advanced siri, given star trek technology has holograms and andriods its not like they are afraid of AI yet when it comes to starships they seem to ignore the advantages of having such on board.
In other sci fis like halo and mass effect humanity has created Ai to serve on a ship these Ai normally perform tasks quicker than lviing beings and operate systems as if they are part of it (with hull is it skin the guns are its arms ect) yet star trek doesnt seem to address any species to have such technology.
Further more star treks computers seem rather limited constantly breaking down and only able to perform actions like a more advanced siri, given star trek technology has holograms and andriods its not like they are afraid of AI yet when it comes to starships they seem to ignore the advantages of having such on board.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
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Most humans cant heal themselves they need a medic and in starfleet the chain of command exsist so doing what one is told is expected but i suppsoe the Ai would be born into starfleet rather than geting to choose to join, as for being disposed of that is a good point id just assume they could remove it once a ship is decomisioned but what they would do after i dont know.
Still star trek doesnt show any other species that does this, the romulan empire for example would not care about the freedoms of a AI ship and most likly shackle it to prevent rebellion, we never see another species use this type of technology it just doesnt exsist.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
The Romulans would have probably heard about that and decided that it wasn't worth the trouble. The Klingons are frequently portrayed as distrustful of machines in general. The Cardassians have AI, if the Dreadnought missiles are anything to go by.
Furthermore, consider that Starfleet has a few issues with AI: yes, you have Data, but with Data you had the issue of whether he was or wasn't Starfleet property because of his self-awareness.
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I'm sure starfleet experiemented on a number of different innovations over time and one or two just didn't work out. Starfleet have always relied on computer systems to regulate starships to about 80%-90% of the functions while the earlier forms were very primitive, they worked well enough and then the LCARS computer system came along and it has been a very successful computer system, and not only does it regulate systems on the ship but it can also act as a library and database for all manner of on and off duty stuff.
The amount of breakdowns for computer systems have been minimal without outside intervention over the duration. only under certain conditions does the computer fail to work as it should or is simply insufficient to deal with stuff even it can't fast enough or lacks memory, space and so on.
Data is the work of a mad scientist, along with Lore and Tainer (after Soong's wife died), again with outside intervention data can be manipulated and its seen a few times but when have you ever seen data malfunction just like that? Same for any other computer of the TNG era, they were bulletproof reliable when left alone from outside influence.
I don't think Klingons are distrusteful of computer systems as they have computers everywhere in their empire, even in their hands within disruptor guns and their communicators. i think its more along the lines they get angry frequently with what they have and desire something better.
I doubt the missile's computer is an AI, it was clearly an ordinary computer system with some safeguards but Torres reprogrammed the computer a little too well, a few years later and she found the missile through voyager and had a hell of a time undoing her own mistake. Even with Torres' computer system in place the system still processes like an ordinary computer.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
In Trek, however, there's a history of AI going bad, from the M5 system to Lore; the underlying concept seems to be a mix of what Asimov called "Frankenstein Syndrome" and the idea that trying to program an entire consciousness all at once is bound to fail. The one success they could point to, Data, was in fact given a sort of ethical structure for future learning to build within, then started off as a sort of very intelligent child. He learned from the people who rescued him, a process which David Brin has proposed may be the only way to create true AI - don't try to program them with a sense of morality, teach it to them.
So in a nutshell, yes, they are kind of afraid of AI. There are a lot of supposedly tech-savvy people in the real world who fear AI. And while they're willing to tolerate it in something they can see as friendly, like Data, they're not giving an AI a starship for a body.
As for Klingons, they don't fear AI, they just don't trust technologies that can be broken by simply hitting them with a hammer. Look at their ships - clearly designed to take a beating, not just in combat, but under any and all circumstances, including being stolen by a bunch of humans, flown through time, and used to steal a breeding pair of whales. You try converting a Starfleet cruiser to suddenly carry several hundred tons of seawater and its inhabitants using improvised tools!
As for the Federation's view on AI in general, there is a bit of hypocrisy going around. The Federation likes to claim that it recognizes the existence and rights of sapient AI, but in practice they generally only acknowledge it when convenient. The moment it is inconvenient to their plans they take the attitude that they are just household appliances that the foolish humor with talk of being alive.
For example, Data's existence as a true lifeform was never established under Federation law, the courts ducked out of making that determination out of fear for how immense and long lasting the consequences would be.
You are partly right, the reason is that it's a product of the 60s. But not because a lack of imagination.
The reason why AI tends to go "bad" in Trek is that in the 60s automation was on the rise and the concept of 'robots' putting people out of business and replacing them was a common fear. Roddenberry had a very technosceptical tone in both TOS and also early TNG. This is why the ships are also crewed by so many people, because he wanted that people have to work the machines and they do so out of passion.
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"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
For my part, the Aurora-A does have an experimental onboard AI. She was given academy training prior to being placed on the ship and does hold a Starfleet commission (Ensign, I think, or maybe Lieutenant JG. She's new.). She's not entirely bound to the Aurora either, she can move to different computer systems if she needs to, such as if the Aurora is about to be destroyed.
The EMH was designed for one purpose, to heal the sick and its capacity was limited to a set runtime before cascade overloads were likely to happen, software death in other words. The EMH MK1's suffered from Zimmerman's insufferable personality traits and were often referred by Zimmerman himself as "Extremely Marginal House-calls", they were eventually phased out for the EMH MK2's.
The Doctor on Voyager was spared the life of servitude on dilithium mines on asteroids and planets because it was stuck on Voyager and the same with the Equinox EMH, unlike the latter, the former was encouraged to develop into a personality after a while because there was no good doctor around and it was just better to acknowledge the Hologram anyway, of course the EMH on Voyager far exceeded its alotted runtime and was on the verge of complete software death if it wasn't for Zimmerman's holographic diagnostic counterpart on the holodeck and some creative mechanics from Torres to extend the EMH's hardware and software needs.
Over time the doctor had learned and experienced a lot on and off duty, even choosing what it can do for itself without instruction, it was on its way to becoming a full AI, but i suspect it still had limitations, like it can't self upgrade, changing the base code, evolving and adapting all the time. The doctor likely only ever experiences part of this because if it were able to change itself at will and looking back on that personality improvement programme and seeing how much of a disaster that turned into, imagine what it could do without real guidance.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
A way for AI to work is neural implants as a form of symbiosis between human and computer. Humans bring intuition and creativity while AIs bring processing power. Otherwise, there will always be the fear that AIs will replace humans so humans will either cause humanity's destruction through their carelessness in the search for a better entertainment system or humans will hinder AI development out of fear of the machine uprising.
My character Tsin'xing
Cortana was a ship's AI, perfectly capable of operating at full intelligence without any human interface at all (as shown during the four years she watched over John's hibernating form between the third and fourth games), that was downloaded to an interface device when Cole Protocol was enacted aboard her ship, Pillar of Autumn. The captain fully intended for all parties to be rescued; neither he nor the Covenant had any way of knowing the Flood existed and were imprisoned aboard the Halo. After that, Cortana was permitted to remain with the Chief, as a reward for her loyal service after her ship was destroyed. (Had she required an interface with a human to operate as a sapient entity, she might not have gone rampant after seven years, then stumbled into the Progenitor's ancient network and become convinced that it cured her utterly.)
But was Data truly granted those rights? We see in "The Measure of a Man" that this status was very much in question. The court avoided any declaration of Data being a real person and instead ruled that he wasn't Starfleet's property. We also see in "The Offspring" that Starfleet still largely viewed Data and Lal as their property. Data's friends on the Enterprise might have treated him as an equal, but that wasn't the case with most strangers or the Starfleet admiralty.
The Doctor had it even worse, since unlike Data, Starfleet actually did create him and therefore they could claim him as their property, with him also effectively being tethered to USS Voyager's computer systems.
This online novel is an interesting exploration of shipboard AI. It's about a human warship who, after aliens all but eradicate humanity for refusing to join their federation (as a subject race, of course), spends the next few thousand years exacting revenge.
But it couldn't possibly had any control of that until about mid way through the first year when it was given some limited control over its own functions and treated with greater respect, which probably extended to more than just switching itself on and off at will. Largely thanks to Kes for bringing the Doctor to the crew, Janeway for acknowledging and Torres for getting things in place.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
> Or there is already an AI secretly controlling the Federation and they don't want the competition. So instead of having a sapient ship, we have 23rd and 24th Century Siri.
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> A way for AI to work is neural implants as a form of symbiosis between human and computer. Humans bring intuition and creativity while AIs bring processing power. Otherwise, there will always be the fear that AIs will replace humans so humans will either cause humanity's destruction through their carelessness in the search for a better entertainment system or humans will hinder AI development out of fear of the machine uprising.
I like M.D. Cooper's Aeon 14 series for this. It uses a "weak AI"/"strong AI" dichotomy (it's a little blurry, but basically works). Sapient AI (SAI) are actually considered significantly less dangerous than non-sapient AI (NSAI): they tend to actually LIKE humans and are regularly installed in people's heads, with most developing very close friendships with them. There's one case I'm aware of where a head!AI loses it, but it's because he and his human disagreed over the legality of their orders from their military superior.
They also regularly put AI cores in ships. One such AI, Sabrina, gets emancipated during the series (in the sense that she's given legal ownership of her "body").
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Sadly, I didn't pay much attention to who wrote what during the later series (you have to remember, between '69 and '79 picking over old episodes was really all we had aside from the short-lived cartoon), and when I try to search for SF authors who've written for Star Trek, about 95% of what I get are obituaries for Harlan Ellison (as if "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream", "Basilisk", "On the Downhill Side", and "The Deathbird" were just trivial scribbles he threw around after become famous for writing a TV episode!). I am, however, hopeful that we'll get episodes written by SF pros yet (I think John Scalzi or N. K. Jemisin probably have a few ideas rattling around...
the Cortana part starts at 9:23
My character Tsin'xing