They used to be that way. Then enough people complained that they got nerfed.
To be fair, they are complaining about the shield draining of the Borg now. Even though that's canon and i enjoy that threat. But people complain "shields are useless now if i cant resist it with minimum effort, or fully specced" Well, in my opinion, sometimes there should be ships and abilities out there, that should be treated as high threat regardless of how well built your ship is
They used to be that way. Then enough people complained that they got nerfed.
To be fair, they are complaining about the shield draining of the Borg now. Even though that's canon and i enjoy that threat. But people complain "shields are useless now if i cant resist it with minimum effort, or fully specced" Well, in my opinion, sometimes there should be ships and abilities out there, that should be treated as high threat regardless of how well built your ship is
Oh I agree. I usually spec to regen so they'll at least have a chance of regenerating while I'm fighting Borg. Also spec more to damage resist and use BFI and the subspace field modulator. Also keep HE for the plasma fire.
It's not that bad. If you know they have the shield drain and you don't like it, don't fight them. Or spiff your ship up more.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
sure you can you need to have a few things active, polarize hull to break the tractor beam, a good amount of points in control effects, and shield restore and regen, same for hull restore and regen,
It wont hurt to have ablative armor, and to stack plasma resistance.
Agreed, at least the normal version. This Que sucks... Simplest way to make it 1000 times better would be to reduce the number of bases you need to destroy to 1. And also make it blatantly obvious what you are supposed to do. New players have 0 idea whats going on.
when You attack the borg you should want to be able to disable the Borg ship, I suggest also having the enemy targe, ting offline skill, mask energy signature and polarize hull, in case you need some breathing room, there is also reputation console that instantly regenerates you're shields not sure what is called but looks kinda like a police badge lol,
I have built my flagship as a jack of all trades. Good damage resistance, DPS, etc etc. I also do an important thing, I always consider the NPCs im fighting, regardless of species, has a extremely high threat and treat them as such. Cause some of them, while looking harmless, have abilities that are the most nasty things on earth if you get caught
And I love that! Sometimes, in the heat of combat I verbalize "Helm, come to course 332 mark 45, Tactical, torpedoes high yield and get our port shield back online"
This week's Endeavour is Gravity Kills. I'd run this before and had an inkling it was hard so chose the basic version instead of my usual choice which is advanced. Since I was running a toon with MK XIV Epic\Ultra Rare weapons, tactical consoles etc I expected to hit fairly hard. The others in my group were also level 65 toons, but I couldn't tell what their loadouts were like.
While the early stage seemed to go fairly smoothly we not only ran through the allotted mission time, we spent an additional 20 minutes! Any mission that take 30+ minutes is quite simply broken!
Yes I appreciate co-ordinated teams can complete the mission a lot quicker, and on harder settings, but PUGs are very different to teams. Seems like this needs a nerf if folk are supposed to play this again.
Nah, you all just don't know how to handle the Tzenkethi and don't care to learn either. Keep it as it is please. I'm tired of whiny players who refuse to learn mechanics but just want to steamroll over everything. They're not hard if you know how to handle them. Though? Yes. But not impossible.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
Just a heads up folks, remember in the academy section of this forum theres a section @baddmoonrizin helped setup to add tactics and advice for queues, enemies etc. I haven't checked today, but maybe several of the posters here should start putting the information there about how to handle this queue
That way, when this comes up again, we can link the thread and allow players to view it in another window, especially if they can during combat.
@rattler2 I suspect you a correct. I took a look at OP's posting history just for the hell of it and well, they seem to pop in every other month and whine about some enemy being too tough or a TFO too hard to do. So far they've whined about the Borg, now it's the Tzenkethi's turn. I suspect they have no idea how to actually play, nor a care to learn.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
I did gravity kills yesterday fully stacked for damage I got through it, i only got blown up once because i got too close to the black hole, I was just careful to stay ranged and not allow multiple enemy ships target me at the same time by not getting too close to the main battle.
This has been brought up a lot, especially with the Tzenkethi. They Tzenkethi aren't that hard to deal with, at all. It's the players that make them hard. this is in reference to gravity well.
As I'm sure other have mentioned, by pulling the Tzenkethi ships together like that, all you're doing it allowing them to stack up immunities, that making them far more difficult to kill. Which is why I keep two different science officers set. One with Grav Well and another with TBR and Tykens. With Tzenkethi, the further apart they are the better. So I use my Tyken's/TBR setupfor them. Subspace vortex is still usable as well.
So if you have to do one of the the Tzenkethi space TFOs, try not to use Grav Well, or anything that pulls them together. IF you see other using said abilities, then don't expect it to be a short fight. Also, take a moment to hit up team chat and tell them that grav wellsare making the instance harder than it should be, for this reason. However, as I have noted, no one really listens, so expect it to fall on deaf ears.
The issue with GK isn't that it isn't winnable with an average load out, it's that with the spawn rates and tactics, it can drag on or never complete with an inexperienced team. That puts it in a separate class than most of the other queues, for better or worse.
Now of course the logical approach for a player is to only do it with a known group of teammates. And that's fine, as far as it goes, but it does not take into account the random TFO system.
Several times I've landed in a random GK Adv TFO that was unending, and a miserable player experience.
If the queue is going to stay at its current level of difficulty then it really does not belong in the queues that will drag in random PUGS in the random TFO system. It's frustrating to queue up for a quick round of combat and end up getting stuck in something that may not complete due to player inexperience, especially given that 90+% of the TFOs are not that hard even at advanced.
I learned long ago to just not PUG this one but the new system drags me into a losing scenario beyond my control.
So, players who do Gravity Kills as a pug can not learn from their experience and will always do it the same exact way like lemmings? Really?
Instead of concluding maybe they should ask or come read stuff in the Forums or Reddit, or, shoot, the advice is even in the Wiki!!!
Keep putting up the good info where players can find it. Keep giving out links to guides etc. Yes, it is frustrating, now. Give it time...let the word get around.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,595Community Moderator
Sometimes I think there needs to be some way to deter people from TOTAL DPS mentality that translates to Spacebar = Win.
It does not.
The same tactics that work on the Borg or the Klingons will not work with the Tzenkethi. You can't just BFAW them and expect to steamroll them like just about every other enemy group in the game.
Every enemy group is different, and requires different tactics. But the DPS mentality has gotten so bad that literally the only tactic people think about is "Spam attacks until it dies" without taking the time to learn the strengths and weaknesses of each enemy group.
I've said it before. Knowledge is Power. Knowing your enemy means knowing how to beat them. For example I bet some people don't even know that Hur'q seem to have an innate resistance to Polaron on the ground. Not sure if they do in space as well.
this is going to hurt you're dps though with all that defence.
I can deal 120k dps while being nearly resistance capped. simply having high resists does not hurt your damage. alot more has to happen before that's an issue.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
This has been brought up a lot, especially with the Tzenkethi. They Tzenkethi aren't that hard to deal with, at all. It's the players that make them hard. this is in reference to gravity well.
As I'm sure other have mentioned, by pulling the Tzenkethi ships together like that, all you're doing it allowing them to stack up immunities, that making them far more difficult to kill.
Your right that their resistances when grouped are a pain. Especially for me and my fleet who usually have two to four ships rocking gravity well builds. But even clumped they can be overcome if you are running properly dedicated exotic builds. They just take a bit longer then anything else we might clump into our murder balls.
Gravity well is actualy a very good ability to use in gravity kills. The problem is that most people who use it do not have big enough wells, and do not put them in the right place. Clumping all the Tzenkethi in a 24km area out of range of the Jupiter and leaving them there to stew, occasionally returning to refresh the well, makes the mission fairly easy.
Now the one change this mission needs is for cryptic to revert the Tzenkethi immunity to the black hole. No idea why they decided to give them that. Playing Tzenkethi Golf made the mission interesting and unique. But apparently black holes + tractor repulsors + Tzenkethi was a combination cryptic didn't approve of. damn spoil sports.
This has been brought up a lot, especially with the Tzenkethi. They Tzenkethi aren't that hard to deal with, at all. It's the players that make them hard. this is in reference to gravity well.
As I'm sure other have mentioned, by pulling the Tzenkethi ships together like that, all you're doing it allowing them to stack up immunities, that making them far more difficult to kill.
Your right that their resistances when grouped are a pain. Especially for me and my fleet who usually have two to four ships rocking gravity well builds. But even clumped they can be overcome if you are running properly dedicated exotic builds. They just take a bit longer then anything else we might clump into our murder balls.
Gravity well is actualy a very good ability to use in gravity kills. The problem is that most people who use it do not have big enough wells, and do not put them in the right place. Clumping all the Tzenkethi in a 24km area out of range of the Jupiter and leaving them there to stew, occasionally returning to refresh the well, makes the mission fairly easy.
Now the one change this mission needs is for cryptic to revert the Tzenkethi immunity to the black hole. No idea why they decided to give them that. Playing Tzenkethi Golf made the mission interesting and unique. But apparently black holes + tractor repulsors + Tzenkethi was a combination cryptic didn't approve of. damn spoil sports.
Damn, I was thinking of Tzenkethi golf too but never got around to actually doing it, so the buggers are immune to the black hole? Not cricket, not cricket at all, not even golf either!
It still works on the Dreadnought though, i just did it last night for an endeavor run.
I did this queue for the very first time last night for the endeavor, and it was far more difficult and longer than I was used to. That doesn't mean it was bad or anything, but it definitely taxed my character, and she had a pretty awesomely configured T5-U science ship. What I discovered is that some of the science abilities really did well (fortunately, I didn't have gravity well slotted, so I didn't make the mistake of doing that here, as I wouldn't have known the difference until it was too late). I died about three times during this mission, which wasn't that bad considering it wasn't the greatest group. What made it worse is that there's not a lot of explanation (or it was just easily missed) about what to do with the particles, other than bring them somewhere. It may have been on the mission tracker, but one thing I'm having a real struggle with right now is so many missions showing up on my tracker that I'm having a hard time finding the mission I'm actually on while dodging, throwing out all sorts of science abilities and trying to get through that menu. It doesn't help that the endeavor menu is now deciding to plaster itself right over all of my mission information to make it almost impossible to read anything.
But once our group started working more as a semi-team, I think things started to improve, and that's kind of a thing for most of the content in this game. I, unlike a lot of others, really enjoy PUGs because I love that you get a different draw each and every time, so that in one mission you get a relative noobie who needs help, and the next you get a crack team of experts who know exactly what they are doing. It makes it so much more fun to just exist as one of the people somewhere in the middle of that spectrum and benefit from both.
As an aside, I'm really enjoying the endeavors for the variety and the fun. Some of simple. Some are difficult. And I'm sure some are going to be borderline impossible. There are sometimes when I'll see the high end endeavor requires a weapon none of my characters uses, and I feel like I'm going to be arming a pea shooter into a phaser battle. All fun.
Fleet Admiral Duane Gundrum, U.S.S. Merrimack
Fleet Admiral Ventaxa Proxmire, U.S.S. Shaka Walls Fell
Blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/?page_id=1990
Foundry series: Bob From Accounting & For the Sake of the Empire
This has been brought up a lot, especially with the Tzenkethi. They Tzenkethi aren't that hard to deal with, at all. It's the players that make them hard. this is in reference to gravity well.
As I'm sure other have mentioned, by pulling the Tzenkethi ships together like that, all you're doing it allowing them to stack up immunities, that making them far more difficult to kill.
Your right that their resistances when grouped are a pain. Especially for me and my fleet who usually have two to four ships rocking gravity well builds. But even clumped they can be overcome if you are running properly dedicated exotic builds. They just take a bit longer then anything else we might clump into our murder balls.
Or, if you successfully spam damage resistance penalties... they chain breach anyways.
Now the one change this mission needs is for cryptic to revert the Tzenkethi immunity to the black hole. No idea why they decided to give them that. Playing Tzenkethi Golf made the mission interesting and unique. But apparently black holes + tractor repulsors + Tzenkethi was a combination cryptic didn't approve of. damn spoil sports.
Yeah, but you don't really need to kill the Tzenkethi though. So TBRing them into the black hole still gets them out of the way.
Comments
Oh I agree. I usually spec to regen so they'll at least have a chance of regenerating while I'm fighting Borg. Also spec more to damage resist and use BFI and the subspace field modulator. Also keep HE for the plasma fire.
It's not that bad. If you know they have the shield drain and you don't like it, don't fight them. Or spiff your ship up more.
It wont hurt to have ablative armor, and to stack plasma resistance.
And I love that! Sometimes, in the heat of combat I verbalize "Helm, come to course 332 mark 45, Tactical, torpedoes high yield and get our port shield back online"
Rifts, Rifts everywhere.
Ok, wheres that Toy Story meme picture, sure i had it somewhere
Nah, you all just don't know how to handle the Tzenkethi and don't care to learn either. Keep it as it is please. I'm tired of whiny players who refuse to learn mechanics but just want to steamroll over everything. They're not hard if you know how to handle them. Though? Yes. But not impossible.
That way, when this comes up again, we can link the thread and allow players to view it in another window, especially if they can during combat.
Plus, you can have high defense and still do very good to extremely high DPS. The best and most experience tank flyers will tell you that.
As I'm sure other have mentioned, by pulling the Tzenkethi ships together like that, all you're doing it allowing them to stack up immunities, that making them far more difficult to kill. Which is why I keep two different science officers set. One with Grav Well and another with TBR and Tykens. With Tzenkethi, the further apart they are the better. So I use my Tyken's/TBR setupfor them. Subspace vortex is still usable as well.
So if you have to do one of the the Tzenkethi space TFOs, try not to use Grav Well, or anything that pulls them together. IF you see other using said abilities, then don't expect it to be a short fight. Also, take a moment to hit up team chat and tell them that grav wellsare making the instance harder than it should be, for this reason. However, as I have noted, no one really listens, so expect it to fall on deaf ears.
Now of course the logical approach for a player is to only do it with a known group of teammates. And that's fine, as far as it goes, but it does not take into account the random TFO system.
Several times I've landed in a random GK Adv TFO that was unending, and a miserable player experience.
If the queue is going to stay at its current level of difficulty then it really does not belong in the queues that will drag in random PUGS in the random TFO system. It's frustrating to queue up for a quick round of combat and end up getting stuck in something that may not complete due to player inexperience, especially given that 90+% of the TFOs are not that hard even at advanced.
I learned long ago to just not PUG this one but the new system drags me into a losing scenario beyond my control.
Instead of concluding maybe they should ask or come read stuff in the Forums or Reddit, or, shoot, the advice is even in the Wiki!!!
Keep putting up the good info where players can find it. Keep giving out links to guides etc. Yes, it is frustrating, now. Give it time...let the word get around.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
It does not.
The same tactics that work on the Borg or the Klingons will not work with the Tzenkethi. You can't just BFAW them and expect to steamroll them like just about every other enemy group in the game.
Every enemy group is different, and requires different tactics. But the DPS mentality has gotten so bad that literally the only tactic people think about is "Spam attacks until it dies" without taking the time to learn the strengths and weaknesses of each enemy group.
I've said it before. Knowledge is Power. Knowing your enemy means knowing how to beat them. For example I bet some people don't even know that Hur'q seem to have an innate resistance to Polaron on the ground. Not sure if they do in space as well.
I don't fly glass cannon builds because I know how little I'll accomplish if I get shot to bits.
My character Tsin'xing
I can deal 120k dps while being nearly resistance capped. simply having high resists does not hurt your damage. alot more has to happen before that's an issue.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Your right that their resistances when grouped are a pain. Especially for me and my fleet who usually have two to four ships rocking gravity well builds. But even clumped they can be overcome if you are running properly dedicated exotic builds. They just take a bit longer then anything else we might clump into our murder balls.
Gravity well is actualy a very good ability to use in gravity kills. The problem is that most people who use it do not have big enough wells, and do not put them in the right place. Clumping all the Tzenkethi in a 24km area out of range of the Jupiter and leaving them there to stew, occasionally returning to refresh the well, makes the mission fairly easy.
Now the one change this mission needs is for cryptic to revert the Tzenkethi immunity to the black hole. No idea why they decided to give them that. Playing Tzenkethi Golf made the mission interesting and unique. But apparently black holes + tractor repulsors + Tzenkethi was a combination cryptic didn't approve of. damn spoil sports.
It still works on the Dreadnought though, i just did it last night for an endeavor run.
But once our group started working more as a semi-team, I think things started to improve, and that's kind of a thing for most of the content in this game. I, unlike a lot of others, really enjoy PUGs because I love that you get a different draw each and every time, so that in one mission you get a relative noobie who needs help, and the next you get a crack team of experts who know exactly what they are doing. It makes it so much more fun to just exist as one of the people somewhere in the middle of that spectrum and benefit from both.
As an aside, I'm really enjoying the endeavors for the variety and the fun. Some of simple. Some are difficult. And I'm sure some are going to be borderline impossible. There are sometimes when I'll see the high end endeavor requires a weapon none of my characters uses, and I feel like I'm going to be arming a pea shooter into a phaser battle. All fun.
Fleet Admiral Ventaxa Proxmire, U.S.S. Shaka Walls Fell
Blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/?page_id=1990
Foundry series: Bob From Accounting & For the Sake of the Empire
My character Tsin'xing
But it doesn't hold them. They just fly right back out like "That was fun. Can we do it again?"
How the hell are they not affected while we are? If we die in the Black Hole... shouldn't they as well?