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Voths reclaim their history!

Picture this. Voth opens up to distant origins theory. Campaigning there lost history. Finding their ancestors path, claiming planets their ancestor once touched. Using doctrine as a weapon to force inhabitants to accept Voth rule, evacuate the planet or die. Federation begins to receive ships leaving edge of delta quadrant asking for sanctuary. Most furthest part of the beta quadrant and Voth scout ships begin to visit random planets "surveying" for habitual and when they find ancestors bones they launch a city ship to claim the planet under doctrine. Could be good system patrol in beta quadrant. Most notable part of the season or season special is Voths launch a full scale attack at earth to claim their home world. Starfleet falls? New organization replaces starfleet? Voth accepts Prime directive? At the end of the season the captain successfully stops the ministry, doctrine unravels leaving them to find a new way. Voths are welcomed home on earth.

Comments

  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,869 Arc User
    I first much like with deer the plural form of Voth is the same as the singular on top of that asking the Voth to accept the distant origin Theory is roughly on the same lines of oh asking one of them Jihad atheists to accept any theory that indicates there may be a higher power
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,639 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    azrael605 wrote: »
    I first much like with deer the plural form of Voth is the same as the singular on top of that asking the Voth to accept the distant origin Theory is roughly on the same lines of oh asking one of them Jihad atheists to accept any theory that indicates there may be a higher power
    Would have to agree, I just don't see the Voth leadership ever accepting Distant Origin. Even if they did, I don't see them attempting to make the Star Trek to Earth when they know the Alliance controls the space all around it, and the Alliance already kicked their dino butts before.

    Would prefer something new. Sheliak, T'Kon, Kelvans, Children of Khan, V'Ger/Borg connection explanation. Hell, even a whale probe origin story would be preferable.
  • jdadonjdadon Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    This is very true. dame dude. didn't have to TRIBBLE on my idea. i figure that its be about 40 years since their encounter with Voyager. A lot has happened since and number 2 it is a game and is not bound to how we perceive our world and is not bound to the same rules. Voth can change cause i believe that. We as a people can change. It takes time and lots of it. I feel its time for the Voth to call earth home. And i want to see it happen the most epic way possible. I mean come on it is our cousins after all.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 6,973 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    jdadon wrote: »
    Picture this. Voth opens up to distant origins theory. Campaigning there lost history. Finding their ancestors path, claiming planets their ancestor once touched. Using doctrine as a weapon to force inhabitants to accept Voth rule, evacuate the planet or die. Federation begins to receive ships leaving edge of delta quadrant asking for sanctuary. Most furthest part of the beta quadrant and Voth scout ships begin to visit random planets "surveying" for habitual and when they find ancestors bones they launch a city ship to claim the planet under doctrine. Could be good system patrol in beta quadrant. Most notable part of the season or season special is Voths launch a full scale attack at earth to claim their home world. Starfleet falls? New organization replaces starfleet? Voth accepts Prime directive? At the end of the season the captain successfully stops the ministry, doctrine unravels leaving them to find a new way. Voths are welcomed home on earth.

    I would welcome the Voth as an opponent, but with focus on Star Trek Discovery it'll be a while before it even comes into play.
    Even if Star Trek Discovery does not survive the next season then STO will still follow the Disco timeline and its introduced antagonists for the time being.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,639 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    I would welcome the Voth as an opponent, but with focus on Star Trek Discovery it'll be a while before it even comes into play.
    Even if Star Trek Discovery does not survive the next season then STO will still follow the Disco timeline and its introduced antagonists for the time being.
    Don't forget the Picard show which airs late next year.

  • saedeithsaedeith Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    Lost me at Voth are welcomed home on earth. Replace that with Voth are wiped out to the point of extinction, then we're talking.
  • jdadonjdadon Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    I know there is a development of new seasons. This is my suggestion for a possible future special episode or its own episode arch. And if it doesn't happen for another 2 years so be it. i wanted to voice my idea now. Mainly cause i finish watching distant origin episode and my mind just got all excited and i came straight here to put my idea out there.

    Also since forra gegen was trying to find proof. Doesn't that also say there are other Voths out there who are questioning distant origin theory. It would take quite a few people who may want to know and forra gegen was the one to make some waves it proving it. But fear of consequence to violating doctrine keeps the rest quiet. They pass their ideas to their children.. Those children are now in position of power now. They can change doctrine, just like how the change it in the past. By breaking trans-warp threshold.
  • jdadonjdadon Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    saedeith wrote: »
    Lost me at Voth are welcomed home on earth. Replace that with Voth are wiped out to the point of extinction, then we're talking.

    lol.
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 606 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Personally if they were once a proto Humaniod from Earth. Then were taken out by the preservers it could explain them. If they are really canonically tied to Earth. They might have been endangered and the Preservers might have moved them and removed evidence of them from Earth. Its the angle I think they should go with as we know the Preservers were responsible for a bunch of relocation's of species and Cultures. As well as helping Seed life throughout the Galaxy in Star Trek Lore.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 49,091 Arc User
    Were the Preservers active 65 MILLION years ago though?
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 33,362 Arc User
    given the ancient humanoids and preservers in STO are the same race, and the ancient humanoids seeded life in the milky way 4.5 billion years ago...yes, they were certainly active​​
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,639 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Were the Preservers active 65 MILLION years ago though?
    The Preservers seeded life across the galaxy over 4 BILLION years ago. The only beings known to be as old, or older, then them are the Q, and the Guardian of Forever(Which is suggested in many works to be a creation of the Preservers) And we know they were still active as recently to have taken Native American tribes to another world.

    Given that we find a cryo-storage like facility of theirs in-game, its likely they put themselves in stasis, and wake up in periodic intervals to check on things. So they could presumably have been "active" at any point in time.

    -14 billion years ago: The universe is formed
    -5 billion years ago: Female Q is born
    -4.5 billion years ago: The Preservers seed life across the galaxy. The Guardian of Forever is asked its last question until the arrival of Kirk and Spock
    -2 billion years ago: Civilization exists on the planet Tagus III
    -1 billion years ago: The reptilian "Slaver" species rules the galaxy with their telepathic powers. When one of their enslaved races rebels and nearly overthrows them they used their vast telepathic powers to issue a galaxy wide "DIE" command, killing almost all intelligent life in the galaxy, and forcing it to re-evolve.
    -300 million years ago: An insectoid race disables their ship to prevent a magnetic organism it had picked up from reaching other worlds
    -87 million years ago: The D'Arsay civilization launches the archive of their culture
    -65 million years ago: The Voth leave earth
    -20 million years ago: Voth recorded history goes back to this time
    ~Unspecified: The Organians evolve into beings of energy millions of years ago
    -1 million years ago: The city around the Guardian of Forever is built. Lactrans reach the same level of technology as 23rd century Earth
    -600 thousand years ago: The T'Kon empire collapses
    -500 thousand years ago: Sargon's species destroys itself. Bajoran civilization exists at this time. The planet Exo III slowly becomes uninhabitable, the species there build androids to serve them.
    -200 thousand years ago: The Iconian's galactic civilization is destroyed
    -100 thousand years ago: The Hirogen construct the subspace communication network system later used by Voyager

    Though, according to STO, the Iconians were the first of the Preserver's children, so they presumably have existed in some form since over 2 billion years ago.
    Post edited by somtaawkhar on
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 606 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    The Preservers could be the one of the best explanation's and in this case maybe the only one for them being from earth and way so far. They could have been from another world with dinosaur like creatures also. Here is why, they would not have been advanced enough to leave earth by themselves they for sure would have been technology and evidence of their civilization if they were advanced enough to travel from earth by themselves. The Federation for sure would be able to find those ruins if they did exist deep below the earth a long time ago. Given how powerful Sensors are in Star Trek I think its very possible. Unless another species like the Q Removed the Evidence of this race then basically the buildings of the Voth and their ships would still be around somewhere on Planet Earth. Including Corpses. Distant Origin Theory could be very possible but at the same time its a theory. There might not even be any truth of it at all. The Preservers could have used some of the dna they used on earth to form them on another world and it just so happens they advanced themselves enough a lot quicker then other species made by the Preservers
    Post edited by thevampinator on
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 924 Arc User
    Skunk idea there. I like them as an adversary. I like the battlezone. Not everyone has to be part of the Grand Alliance/Federation "club." Odds are that if the Voth were to go to Earth, they would be doing so as conquerors, with enough force to hammer through the alliance, not to bend the knee to the alliance. They would seek to impose their doctrine under all that they survey, like the Federation, because they believe that their path is right. We already know that they'd be willing to weaponize Omega particles to ensure that nobody dominates them or eliminates them. We already know they don't like primates as well. And you're reaching, if you think that just because humans can change, and the Federation can be buddies with anyone, that it can be applied to every race. Thinking that they would just up and accept Prime Directive along with any other edicts of the Alliance is another pile of steaming lawn fudge. The KDF doesn't even accept the Prime Directive. I don't know if the Romulan Republic or the Dominion do either.

    It's also been far more recent than since Voyager, that the Voth clashed with members of "The Big Three," while dealing with the Undine, and the Borg, and whoever else that we don't know about.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,639 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    Odds are that if the Voth were to go to Earth, they would be doing so as conquerors, with enough force to hammer through the alliance, not to bend the knee to the alliance.
    It should be noted that the Voth are basically the only major species seen before the "Future Proof" arc that aren't present at the signing of the Temporal Accords in the "Time and Tide" mission.

    This despite the fact that even other current "enemy" species like the Tholians and Breen, and other Delta Quadrant races like the Talaxians, Kobali, and Borg Cooperative, are there. Suggesting that, even by that time, they aren't part of, or allies with, the Alliance.

    the others not present include the reclusive Undine, and the Iconians, who would still have like 650 more years to go on their "don't bother us" mandate from the end of the Iconian War.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,869 Arc User
    Yes the Voth could change, but as can be seen right now in game, they haven't. That kind of social change is the kind that takes centuries and usually involves one or more civil wars, coup de tat, etc. Not to mention, Theocracies are notoriously hard to end, and this one has stood for Millions of years.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 924 Arc User
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    Odds are that if the Voth were to go to Earth, they would be doing so as conquerors, with enough force to hammer through the alliance, not to bend the knee to the alliance.
    It should be noted that the Voth are basically the only major species seen before the "Future Proof" arc that aren't present at the signing of the Temporal Accords in the "Time and Tide" mission.

    This despite the fact that even other current "enemy" species like the Tholians and Breen, and other Delta Quadrant races like the Talaxians, Kobali, and Borg Cooperative, are there. Suggesting that, even by that time, they aren't part of, or allies with, the Alliance.

    the others not present include the reclusive Undine, and the Iconians, who would still have like 650 more years to go on their "don't bother us" mandate from the end of the Iconian War.

    What about the Vaadwaur? Or are they not a major race? Same with the Hazari(unsure on spelling), Hirogen, Benthans, Kazon?
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,639 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    What about the Vaadwaur? Or are they not a major race? Same with the Hazari(unsure on spelling), Hirogen, Benthans, Kazon?
    The Vaadwaur situation had already been explained shortly before the Future Proof arc began with Harry Kim mentioning that Eldix wasn't cooperating with the Alliance, but wasn't continuing the Vaadwaur's campaign either. Basically, they wanted to be neutral.

    For the rest of them, Hazari, Hirogen, Benthans, Kazons, compared to the Borg Cooperative(a fan favorite) and the Kobali(who got an entire battlezone for them), and the Talaxians(who had an actual major actor in Voyager) no, they weren't really major species. Just like not every member race of the Federation that is in-game was there.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,569 Arc User
    Also the nature of the Voth government suggests their ruling class would have to completely lose power for any meaningful change to happen. Doctrine isn't just a religion, it's the basis for why the ruling class IS the ruling class.
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  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    ... The Federation for sure would be able to find those ruins if they did exist deep below the earth a long time ago. Given how powerful Sensors are in Star Trek I think its very possible. Unless another species like the Q Removed the Evidence of this race then basically the buildings of the Voth and their ships would still be around somewhere on Planet Earth. Including Corpses...

    Before 1915, a mere century ago, there was a town to which my step-grandfather's family migrated from Germany. It was a lumber town built on a railroad, and though it was built on stilts in the middle of the swamp it had all the modern conveniences.

    In 1915 a hurricane came through and destroyed the town. I've been there: it is gone. Even knowing where to look, (Grampa took us fishing there and showed us where the town was back before the Interstate was built through it,) there was no evidence there had ever been a town. It once had a railroad repair station and a sawmill! I suppose experts could go over the site and discover remains, if they dug through the muck, but they would have to have old maps so they would know where to look. Anywhere outside that quarter-mile circle and they could look forever and find nothing.

    I don't buy the idea that remains from 65 million years ago would be any more evident. Metal corrodes in that time, and any that didn't, gold, perhaps, would be explained away as human artifacts. Even stone that old, unless buried, would weather to dust. The Quatarra Depression, for example, is only 20 million years old, and was created wholly through weathering. All of what we consider as the main mountain ranges, Alps, Himalayas, Rockies, Andes, began at the time of the dinosaur extinction.

    The plains the dinosaurs walked upon were ground flat or folded and uplifted, and if it wasn't buried where it could fossilize, (an exceedingly rare occurrence,) it was weathered into oblivion. The very best chance we'd have to find remains that old would be in space, perhaps where asteroid mining took place or attempts to colonize other bodies in the Solar System were made.

    On the other hand, if the Preservers saw an asteroid impact coming, picked the most likely species to develop intelligence, and transplanted them, (much as we might try to transplant the Mountain Gorillas if their mountain was about to go all Krakatoa on them,) then the chance of finding evidence they were intelligent would be nil because their development of intelligence would have happened after transplanting rather than before. In this case, Doctrine might be absolutely correct in that the Voth evolved where they were in the Delta Quadrant rather than on Earth.

    Even our greatest works won't survive on a scale of millions of years. The Sphinx is somewhere around 5000 years old, and if it hadn't being constantly restored and refurbished over that time it would be gone already, little more than a limestone bump on the Giza plateau. Our concrete and glass cities? The old Roman constructions stand a better chance than modern concrete, which is good for a century or until enough moisture permeates to the iron reinforcing to allow rust to swell and splinter the concrete. 65 million years from now New York will have been ground to nothing by the Atlantic and New Orleans will have been swallowed by the meanderings of the Mississippi River and the ever-spreading Mississippi Embayment. And we already know what happens to the West Coast. It's on Lex Luthor's map.
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,172 Arc User
    As far as the Voth go.. I'd be more interested to see their extended engagement with the Borg in the Delta Quadrant - an excuse to expand the map a bit more. How do the Borg (attempt to) adapt to their immunity matrices and phase cloaking? Conversely, what countermeasures do the Voth have against Shield Neutralizers and Plasma Bolts(B-Ger torps)? What about assimilated V-Rexs and mech suits?

    I'm also a little salty the Devore didn't make the cut in Delta Rising(despite there being the devore sector). Expanding the map might be another chance to include whatever refugees managed to escape the Vaadwaur.

    That said, I'm not going to hold my breath. Now that STO is in full 'Discovery Mode', the most that I hope for is that we'll see the T6 Bastion/Palisade added to the Infinity Box at some point next year...
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,639 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    szerontzur wrote: »
    I'm also a little salty the Devore didn't make the cut in Delta Rising(despite there being the devore sector). Expanding the map might be another chance to include whatever refugees managed to escape the Vaadwaur.
    The DQ easily has the largest number of "unused" larger powers for that region.
    -Haakonian Order
    -Krowtonan Guard
    -Vidiian Sodality
    -The Swarm
    -Etanian Order
    -Alsuran Empire
    -B'omar Sovereignty
    -Devore Imperium

    In the Alpha/Beta quadrants we still have yet to encounter
    -Sheliak
    -Talarians
    -Metron
  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    The puroose of the Federation is to "...seek out new world's, and new civilizations. To boldly go where no one has gone before."

    What I would love to see is the developers add a small amount of the Galaxy that has not been explored before. Make the missions where those that just want to fight have that option, while others have a diplomatic option with new races.

    Each player gets to choose how they want to play the missions. And they can even add another rep system for exploration if they want to. Not to mention the different types of missions they can add to the queues. Some can be diplomatic, while others are war like.

    This will be a chance for the developers to touch on the very heart of what Starfleet was built for. The very heart of Star Trek. So far, if I want to play a game with actual exploration, I have to play something other than Star Trek.

    Don't get me wrong. It is fun popping ships in space. But I just think a game that everything needs to be scripted to do something, can offer more than showing only the violent side of Star Trek.

    Still waiting for a sandbox version of a true Star Trek game.

    Razar.
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  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,172 Arc User
    szerontzur wrote: »
    I'm also a little salty the Devore didn't make the cut in Delta Rising(despite there being the devore sector). Expanding the map might be another chance to include whatever refugees managed to escape the Vaadwaur.
    The DQ easily has the largest number of "unused" larger powers for that region.
    -Haakonian Order
    -Krowtonan Guard
    -Vidiian Sodality
    -The Swarm
    -Etanian Order
    -Alsuran Empire
    -B'omar Sovereignty
    -Devore Imperium

    In the Alpha/Beta quadrants we still have yet to encounter
    -Sheliak
    -Talarians
    -Metron

    For sure, I just really like the concept and ship design of the Devore. I imagine an empire of telepath hunters would have been a prime target for the Bluegills/Vaadwaur, so I can understand why they would have been wiped out(especially considering the Vaadwaur re-emerged in the middle of their territory). However, if the whole Krenim/Zahl arc is ingame, I can't see why some members of the Devore couldn't have managed to stick around. I'm sure people would enjoy being able to get their distinctive ships from lockboxes(they're like a LaFerrari and TVR Sagaris had a love child and covered it in obsidian snakeskin).

    There's also the presumably challenging Fen Domar that Voyager would have run into if it had continued the long way home. I think they were technically located in Beta Quadrant, but who knows how far their influence spread across the border.

    In Alpha Quadrant the Selay and Anticans have yet to make a proper appearance in STO. Come to think of it, the Bynar are absent as well(although the Lukari do remind me of them, visually speaking). It's probably questionable whether any of them are a 'significant' power though.

    I don't think STO has ever really delved into the First Federation either(outside of putting Fesarius on the map), which seems like a pretty ripe opportunity(a missed one, considering they would probably have history with the Hur'q).

    I digress though, this is starting to get really off topic.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,639 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    szerontzur wrote: »
    In Alpha Quadrant the Selay and Anticans have yet to make a proper appearance in STO. Come to think of it, the Bynar are absent as well(although the Lukari do remind me of them, visually speaking). It's probably questionable whether any of them are a 'significant' power though.
    Just a quick note on this. The Anticans and Selay joined the Federation as per the Star Trek Star Charts. The Bynar were never mentioned as some important power, just an alien species the Federation was allied with whose technological prowess made them useful for computer upgrades.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,869 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > szerontzur wrote: »
    >
    > In Alpha Quadrant the Selay and Anticans have yet to make a proper appearance in STO. Come to think of it, the Bynar are absent as well(although the Lukari do remind me of them, visually speaking). It's probably questionable whether any of them are a 'significant' power though.
    >
    >
    >
    > Just a quick note on this. The Anticans and Selay joined the Federation as per the Star Trek Star Charts. The Bynar were never mentioned as some important power, just an alien species the Federation was allied with whose technological prowess made them useful for computer upgrades.

    There are Bynar Doffs in game.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
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