I don't know why you both continue to argue past each other.
@sophlogimo 's point is "given two identical ships, with one player having higher level gear, but both players are using the given ships and powers effectively, the player with better gear will have higher DPS every time"
@peterconnorfist 's point is "given two identical ships, with both players having identical gear, yet one player using the given powers more effectively, the player who is displaying more 'skill' will have higher DPS every time".
You both don't even have a common definition of "skill". @peterconnorfirst includes understanding the mechanics behind gearing a ship and selecting powers, where @sophlogimo seems to be referring only to ship piloting and effective use of powers.
Continue this pointless debate if you want. I doubt you will get anywhere unless you first define what you are talking about.
At this point I don' think this particular argument is about difficulty levels at all. It's caused by some people objecting to the fundamental principles underlying the entire MMORPG genre.
Acquiring better gear (and/or whatever other power boosts the game has), to be able to play harder content, to get even better gear, and so on is the basic premise of the genre. If you don't like that, then you're not only playing the wrong game, but the wrong genre.
Complaining about needing to get gear in an MMORPG is like complaining about people dying in horror movies.
And the really ironic part is, STO is way below genre standards in this department. Everything is optional, primary content fits somewhere between the range of "impossible to lose" and "wins itself, just you wait," what hard content there is gives no reason to play it and despite frequent release of more gear and systems to power up, none of it ever comes with content that requires it. All that metric boatloads gear, traits, specializations, whatever that they've created...should really be more necessary. For more than just DPS contests.
I don't know why you both continue to argue past each other.
@sophlogimo 's point is "given two identical ships, with one player having higher level gear, but both players are using the given ships and powers effectively, the player with better gear will have higher DPS every time"
Yes, but what is "using the given ships and powers effectively?" Is there a range of using them effectively? If so, then how would we describe that range, except in terms of skill? What you're essentially saying is that sophlogimo assumes his own conclusion - that skill doesn't matter, because he's already set the terms of the comparison so that skill is a given.
[...]
> refuses to do even a three-minute ISA just to get a sensible comparison to all of the high-end DPS numbers he's whining about
>insists that everyone else conduct an elaborate test of his choosing to prove water is wet
[...]
This has been explained earlier in this thread. Single player is the only way to eliminate variables that are outside of the player's control.
It's also been rebutted earlier in the thread, multiple times. Bottom line: if you're not gonna measure using the same scale, then you shouldn't whine about high-end ISA numbers. Surely an empiricist like you would agree. You don't even know what those numbers mean, until you've run a few parses yourself in the same context. Thus, the whole basis of your original complaint is tainted.
As for your patrol, as noted previously, it might be the best benchmark ever made; it might be terrible. Gruber's report tends to suggest it's the latter - but I can't say for sure, and I don't really care. What matters is that for all of its flaws, ISA is a known quantity. We have thousands upon thousands of parses on it. We should throw all of that away to appease the whims of a random forum malcontent who has zero power? You couldn't even pick a more popular map like Carraya or Argala; nope, had to be a hipster.
At this point I don' think this particular argument is about difficulty levels at all. It's caused by some people objecting to the fundamental principles underlying the entire MMORPG genre.
Acquiring better gear (and/or whatever other power boosts the game has), to be able to play harder content, to get even better gear, and so on is the basic premise of the genre. If you don't like that, then you're not only playing the wrong game, but the wrong genre.
Complaining about needing to get gear in an MMORPG is like complaining about people dying in horror movies.
And the really ironic part is, STO is way below genre standards in this department. Everything is optional, primary content fits somewhere between the range of "impossible to lose" and "wins itself, just you wait," what hard content there is gives no reason to play it and despite frequent release of more gear and systems to power up, none of it ever comes with content that requires it. All that metric boatloads gear, traits, specializations, whatever that they've created...should really be more necessary. For more than just DPS contests.
At this point I don' think this particular argument is about difficulty levels at all. It's caused by some people objecting to the fundamental principles underlying the entire MMORPG genre.
Acquiring better gear (and/or whatever other power boosts the game has), to be able to play harder content, to get even better gear, and so on is the basic premise of the genre. If you don't like that, then you're not only playing the wrong game, but the wrong genre.
Complaining about needing to get gear in an MMORPG is like complaining about people dying in horror movies.
And the really ironic part is, STO is way below genre standards in this department. Everything is optional, primary content fits somewhere between the range of "impossible to lose" and "wins itself, just you wait," what hard content there is gives no reason to play it and despite frequent release of more gear and systems to power up, none of it ever comes with content that requires it. All that metric boatloads gear, traits, specializations, whatever that they've created...should really be more necessary. For more than just DPS contests.
[...]
> refuses to do even a three-minute ISA just to get a sensible comparison to all of the high-end DPS numbers he's whining about
>insists that everyone else conduct an elaborate test of his choosing to prove water is wet
[...]
This has been explained earlier in this thread. Single player is the only way to eliminate variables that are outside of the player's control.
It's also been rebutted earlier in the thread, multiple times. [...].
Saying the same thing once more does not really count as its own rebuttal. You don't agree with that assessment, fine. But I do. If you want to know how well you, and only you, perform with a given build, you, and only you, must be present. Kind of obvious to me.
Disagreement would be one thing, but you haven't even acknowledged the point we've made. Even in this latest post you just gloss over the whole thing, pretending that the point of contention is the benchmark itself, and not the comparisons you've been drawing throughout the thread. You either fail to grasp the distinction or you're being dishonest. Hell, you even trimmed the quote to obscure my argument.
This is kind of obvious to everyone reading the thread.
EDIT: Here, I'll quote it again for you, with the relevant parts in bold:
It's also been rebutted earlier in the thread, multiple times. Bottom line: if you're not gonna measure using the same scale, then you shouldn't whine about high-end ISA numbers. Surely an empiricist like you would agree. You don't even know what those numbers mean, until you've run a few parses yourself in the same context.Thus, the whole basis of your original complaint is tainted.
[...]
> refuses to do even a three-minute ISA just to get a sensible comparison to all of the high-end DPS numbers he's whining about
>insists that everyone else conduct an elaborate test of his choosing to prove water is wet
[...]
This has been explained earlier in this thread. Single player is the only way to eliminate variables that are outside of the player's control.
It's also been rebutted earlier in the thread, multiple times. [...].
Saying the same thing once more does not really count as its own rebuttal. You don't agree with that assessment, fine. But I do. If you want to know how well you, and only you, perform with a given build, you, and only you, must be present. Kind of obvious to me.
Disagreement would be one thing, but you haven't even acknowledged the point we've made.
... a method that is obviously flawed will give flawed results.
[Quoting method borrowed from you]
Then you have nothing to complain about, because according to you, all of those disgustingly high ISA scores you've been waving around come from a flawed benchmark, and thus they're null and void. Glad to know you agree never to cite ISA numbers in your future jeremiads against fundamental MMO design. Thanks!
[...]
> refuses to do even a three-minute ISA just to get a sensible comparison to all of the high-end DPS numbers he's whining about
>insists that everyone else conduct an elaborate test of his choosing to prove water is wet
[...]
This has been explained earlier in this thread. Single player is the only way to eliminate variables that are outside of the player's control.
It's also been rebutted earlier in the thread, multiple times. [...].
Saying the same thing once more does not really count as its own rebuttal. You don't agree with that assessment, fine. But I do. If you want to know how well you, and only you, perform with a given build, you, and only you, must be present. Kind of obvious to me.
Disagreement would be one thing, but you haven't even acknowledged the point we've made.
... a method that is obviously flawed will give flawed results.
[Quoting method borrowed from you]
So you obviosuly believe that a falwed method does not give flawed results. Well, whatever powers your starship.
But don't expect me to adopt a flawed method just because you don't see the flaws and everybody is going herd mentality about it.
If you were arguing in good faith, then you would acknowledge that I already agreed ISA has flaws. Multiple times. That's also beside the point, which you've consistently failed to grasp. This is why I've been reduced to mocking your out-context quotes - which you did again, hilariously, just now.
Eagerly awaiting your next post, in which you quote me saying, "... I already agreed ISA has flaws ..." and then declare victory in a debate that you refused even to join. I can only conclude that there's some reason you're desperate not to parse ISA. Seriously, it takes three minutes.
If you directed even half the time and passion you've devoted to playing forum gotcha games to STO instead, then you'd be an elite player.
[...]
> refuses to do even a three-minute ISA just to get a sensible comparison to all of the high-end DPS numbers he's whining about
>insists that everyone else conduct an elaborate test of his choosing to prove water is wet
[...]
This has been explained earlier in this thread. Single player is the only way to eliminate variables that are outside of the player's control.
It's also been rebutted earlier in the thread, multiple times. [...].
Saying the same thing once more does not really count as its own rebuttal. You don't agree with that assessment, fine. But I do. If you want to know how well you, and only you, perform with a given build, you, and only you, must be present. Kind of obvious to me.
Disagreement would be one thing, but you haven't even acknowledged the point we've made.
... a method that is obviously flawed will give flawed results.
[Quoting method borrowed from you]
So you obviosuly believe that a falwed method does not give flawed results. Well, whatever powers your starship.
But don't expect me to adopt a flawed method just because you don't see the flaws and everybody is going herd mentality about it.
If you were arguing in good faith, then you would acknowledge that I already agreed ISA has flaws. Multiple times. [...]
And yet, you keep doing the flawed thing. Your choice, and mine not to join you in that.
Eagerly awaiting your next post, in which you quote me saying, "... I already agreed ISA has flaws ..." and then declare victory in a debate that you refused even to join.
And yet, you keep doing the flawed thing. Your choice, and mine not to join you in that.
Yet here you are, arguing about something while having flaws in the very premise of your argument. Obi pfft2 pointed the disconnect out very well. You are yapping about everyone using a flawed map (ISA) to benchmark their builds, yet you are using the numbers done on that map as a basis for your arguments. How is that meaningful baseline for an argument in any way?
Also, good job, you quoted the exact thing Obi predicted you will.
i've been playing on advanced, and t's been like this for me as well. Being taken out by a Bop in the new tfo, continuously is quite annoying, more so when you're constantly receiving heals from the damage done. For me though, it HAS been pretty noticeable and annoying the last week alone.
Yes, but what is "using the given ships and powers effectively?" Is there a range of using them effectively? If so, then how would we describe that range, except in terms of skill?
I don't know what you are asking here. Both players are familiar with their ships. Both players have a solid grasp of game mechanics and have built their ships with that in mind. Both players intelligently pilot their ships and use their powers. The only difference is one player has higher level gear or lockbox-ship traits. Seems fairly straightforward to me.
What you're essentially saying is that sophlogimo assumes his own conclusion - that skill doesn't matter, because he's already set the terms of the comparison so that skill is a given.
In the scenario he describes, he is correct. Just like the scenario @peterconnorfirst describes makes HIM correct. You see why they are arguing past each other yet?
I don't know what you are asking here. Both players are familiar with their ships. Both players have a solid grasp of game mechanics and have built their ships with that in mind. Both players intelligently pilot their ships and use their powers. The only difference is one player has higher level gear or lockbox-ship traits. Seems fairly straightforward to me.
Exactly. Soph wants to argue that there is no meaningful skill gap. That's his thesis. So then he concocts a scenario to justify that thesis, in which skill is assumed to be equal - i.e. assuming his own conclusion. Just to be clear, no one's disputed that all else being equal, the player with better gear will win. What we've disputed is the idea that skill doesn't matter too.
What you're essentially saying is that sophlogimo assumes his own conclusion - that skill doesn't matter, because he's already set the terms of the comparison so that skill is a given.
In the scenario he describes, he is correct. Just like the scenario @peterconnorfirst describes makes HIM correct. You see why they are arguing past each other yet?
You're right that the disconnect in this conversation is the definition of "skill." The difference is that one side's arguing in bad faith.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If things would be that easy. Just a matter of time before the next thread about the same subject turns up and the intervals in which they do get shorter and shorter because of single forum member.
Yea, best would be not to reply but that isn’t easy either. The bizarre fascination that scrubs by conviction in a mmorpg emit to others is like witnessing the aftermath of a horrible car accident. The ambulance is there, the victim being tended to and even if the best would be to just drive by you can’t resist the urge to get a few glimpses.
This very case is even extraordinary bizarre because the voluntary ambulances around here won’t do and with players like Felisean, Jay and Obi the victim even managed to call by the virtually best ambulances this game has to offer… just to send them on their way again.
He can keep on bleeding from every opening of his body for all I care if he wishes to suffer that much but even there he does not stop as he is requesting others to just get a few bones broken as well in order to demonstrate his bravery.
Lol, whatever. Given some of the replies here and in the other thread(s) my confidence in the forum’s community is not shaken so one might as well just drive by indeed.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I mean, there is MASSIVE disparity between players and that is evidence in some TFO’s. Players who can manage 120k DPS alongside players who can barely manage 10k doesn’t seem right – but I don’t think there is a solution nor that anything will change.
I have played a pretty good number of MMO's and never found a single one where this isn't the case.
There will always be a diverse player base. Those that are hardcore and crunch all the numbers to make the 'perfect' build mixed with those that play casually from time to time and don't study the finer points of game mechanics.
Spending time and resources trying to change this is a waste of time. The only way you can change this is to bar certain players from content which creates a whole new set of issues.
Sometimes, players on the low side feel encouraged to improve their numbers. Sometimes they quit, sometimes they just keep going and do what they like. I have been in all these camps at one point or another.. it's just part of online multiplayer games and it probably always will be.
I mean, there is MASSIVE disparity between players and that is evidence in some TFO’s. Players who can manage 120k DPS alongside players who can barely manage 10k doesn’t seem right – but I don’t think there is a solution nor that anything will change.
On the flipside, the instance I described a few pages back isn’t generally the norm, I can at least say with confidence that my GWIII’s have ‘rescued’ one or two ISA runs since that particularly instance, giving teams who couldn’t pop the transformer quickly a little more time to work on doing so without sphere interference.
And in general am a little confused about my performance at this point. If my DPS is so low (it certainly was in that aforementioned instance), how is it that I attract aggro from just about everything on the map?
It’s rather easy to balance a build for the map you want to use it in. It’s very hard however to balance a build to any team you run it possibly with. Without making any changes my HSE tank can play superhero in a 250k HSE team but will be useless in a 1M DPS team there.
While I found it easy to avoid aggro with cannons as one only ends up tending to a limited amount of targets under a limited arc at any given time (and kill them fast!) things already look quite differently with beams.
With exotic/crowd control one seems to be rather high in the food chain of the critters as you simply tab on the shoulders of so many with a single attack simultaniously and it takes them long to die from it.
Again, I’m confident you do Silver DPS! That’s nothing to be ashamed about, still aim for Gold as it will end you up playing a more flexible role in light of the extremes you may encounter in random groups. I know you can do it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Look at you guys talking like someone's over protective parents. Holding people's hands, just like Cryptic wants you to.
It is "nice" to support your "little children", but eventually they have to plod out on their own. They need to get a taste of supporting themselves.
Your umbrella of DPS is masking a huge problem. That the other players are not doing for themselves, any more. They are waiting for YOU GUYS to make it easier. And there you are, waiting in line to DO THINGS FOR THEM.
STOP IT! It is a trap for you. It is a trap for them. They never need to learn....they don't even need to try.
THAT is the part that is missing from this game.
Throwing people to the wolves at level 50...ain't gonna cut it. Obviously.
But then, now, they figured out a way to mask everyone's actual performance.
Allowing Level 65s to over run everyone else in low level teams...what is that going to teach anyone?
What needs to happen is: lower level players need access to all the stuff that unlock Traits. Like the ones from Rep, R&D etc. People filling clicky bars at the end is stupid as hell, and doesn't teach anyone the game, either. Because in the end it is learning to use that stuff together that is important.
And it is, also, a sorry excuse for NOT creating battles worthy of players who have built their top level characters.
You guys of all people should be tired of this TRIBBLE. You should be telling them.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Comments
@sophlogimo 's point is "given two identical ships, with one player having higher level gear, but both players are using the given ships and powers effectively, the player with better gear will have higher DPS every time"
@peterconnorfist 's point is "given two identical ships, with both players having identical gear, yet one player using the given powers more effectively, the player who is displaying more 'skill' will have higher DPS every time".
You both don't even have a common definition of "skill". @peterconnorfirst includes understanding the mechanics behind gearing a ship and selecting powers, where @sophlogimo seems to be referring only to ship piloting and effective use of powers.
Continue this pointless debate if you want. I doubt you will get anywhere unless you first define what you are talking about.
Acquiring better gear (and/or whatever other power boosts the game has), to be able to play harder content, to get even better gear, and so on is the basic premise of the genre. If you don't like that, then you're not only playing the wrong game, but the wrong genre.
Complaining about needing to get gear in an MMORPG is like complaining about people dying in horror movies.
And the really ironic part is, STO is way below genre standards in this department. Everything is optional, primary content fits somewhere between the range of "impossible to lose" and "wins itself, just you wait," what hard content there is gives no reason to play it and despite frequent release of more gear and systems to power up, none of it ever comes with content that requires it. All that metric boatloads gear, traits, specializations, whatever that they've created...should really be more necessary. For more than just DPS contests.
Yes, but what is "using the given ships and powers effectively?" Is there a range of using them effectively? If so, then how would we describe that range, except in terms of skill? What you're essentially saying is that sophlogimo assumes his own conclusion - that skill doesn't matter, because he's already set the terms of the comparison so that skill is a given.
It's also been rebutted earlier in the thread, multiple times. Bottom line: if you're not gonna measure using the same scale, then you shouldn't whine about high-end ISA numbers. Surely an empiricist like you would agree. You don't even know what those numbers mean, until you've run a few parses yourself in the same context. Thus, the whole basis of your original complaint is tainted.
As for your patrol, as noted previously, it might be the best benchmark ever made; it might be terrible. Gruber's report tends to suggest it's the latter - but I can't say for sure, and I don't really care. What matters is that for all of its flaws, ISA is a known quantity. We have thousands upon thousands of parses on it. We should throw all of that away to appease the whims of a random forum malcontent who has zero power? You couldn't even pick a more popular map like Carraya or Argala; nope, had to be a hipster.
STO Builds Wiki
U.S.S. Pale Horse, a Jem'Hadar Warship build
Rough comparison of different damage types on high-end cannon builds
Great post. Well said.
STO Builds Wiki
U.S.S. Pale Horse, a Jem'Hadar Warship build
Rough comparison of different damage types on high-end cannon builds
Yep, very insightful post.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Disagreement would be one thing, but you haven't even acknowledged the point we've made. Even in this latest post you just gloss over the whole thing, pretending that the point of contention is the benchmark itself, and not the comparisons you've been drawing throughout the thread. You either fail to grasp the distinction or you're being dishonest. Hell, you even trimmed the quote to obscure my argument.
This is kind of obvious to everyone reading the thread.
EDIT: Here, I'll quote it again for you, with the relevant parts in bold:
STO Builds Wiki
U.S.S. Pale Horse, a Jem'Hadar Warship build
Rough comparison of different damage types on high-end cannon builds
[Quoting method borrowed from you]
Then you have nothing to complain about, because according to you, all of those disgustingly high ISA scores you've been waving around come from a flawed benchmark, and thus they're null and void. Glad to know you agree never to cite ISA numbers in your future jeremiads against fundamental MMO design. Thanks!
STO Builds Wiki
U.S.S. Pale Horse, a Jem'Hadar Warship build
Rough comparison of different damage types on high-end cannon builds
If you were arguing in good faith, then you would acknowledge that I already agreed ISA has flaws. Multiple times. That's also beside the point, which you've consistently failed to grasp. This is why I've been reduced to mocking your out-context quotes - which you did again, hilariously, just now.
Eagerly awaiting your next post, in which you quote me saying, "... I already agreed ISA has flaws ..." and then declare victory in a debate that you refused even to join. I can only conclude that there's some reason you're desperate not to parse ISA. Seriously, it takes three minutes.
If you directed even half the time and passion you've devoted to playing forum gotcha games to STO instead, then you'd be an elite player.
STO Builds Wiki
U.S.S. Pale Horse, a Jem'Hadar Warship build
Rough comparison of different damage types on high-end cannon builds
LOL I called it.
Shameless.
STO Builds Wiki
U.S.S. Pale Horse, a Jem'Hadar Warship build
Rough comparison of different damage types on high-end cannon builds
Yet here you are, arguing about something while having flaws in the very premise of your argument. Obi pfft2 pointed the disconnect out very well. You are yapping about everyone using a flawed map (ISA) to benchmark their builds, yet you are using the numbers done on that map as a basis for your arguments. How is that meaningful baseline for an argument in any way?
Also, good job, you quoted the exact thing Obi predicted you will.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
It's not going anywhere, and I'm utterly enjoying reading it.
Carry on....
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
And it is not consistent.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
In the scenario he describes, he is correct. Just like the scenario @peterconnorfirst describes makes HIM correct. You see why they are arguing past each other yet?
Exactly. Soph wants to argue that there is no meaningful skill gap. That's his thesis. So then he concocts a scenario to justify that thesis, in which skill is assumed to be equal - i.e. assuming his own conclusion. Just to be clear, no one's disputed that all else being equal, the player with better gear will win. What we've disputed is the idea that skill doesn't matter too.
You're right that the disconnect in this conversation is the definition of "skill." The difference is that one side's arguing in bad faith.
STO Builds Wiki
U.S.S. Pale Horse, a Jem'Hadar Warship build
Rough comparison of different damage types on high-end cannon builds
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If things would be that easy. Just a matter of time before the next thread about the same subject turns up and the intervals in which they do get shorter and shorter because of single forum member.
Yea, best would be not to reply but that isn’t easy either. The bizarre fascination that scrubs by conviction in a mmorpg emit to others is like witnessing the aftermath of a horrible car accident. The ambulance is there, the victim being tended to and even if the best would be to just drive by you can’t resist the urge to get a few glimpses.
This very case is even extraordinary bizarre because the voluntary ambulances around here won’t do and with players like Felisean, Jay and Obi the victim even managed to call by the virtually best ambulances this game has to offer… just to send them on their way again.
He can keep on bleeding from every opening of his body for all I care if he wishes to suffer that much but even there he does not stop as he is requesting others to just get a few bones broken as well in order to demonstrate his bravery.
Lol, whatever. Given some of the replies here and in the other thread(s) my confidence in the forum’s community is not shaken so one might as well just drive by indeed.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I have played a pretty good number of MMO's and never found a single one where this isn't the case.
There will always be a diverse player base. Those that are hardcore and crunch all the numbers to make the 'perfect' build mixed with those that play casually from time to time and don't study the finer points of game mechanics.
Spending time and resources trying to change this is a waste of time. The only way you can change this is to bar certain players from content which creates a whole new set of issues.
Sometimes, players on the low side feel encouraged to improve their numbers. Sometimes they quit, sometimes they just keep going and do what they like. I have been in all these camps at one point or another.. it's just part of online multiplayer games and it probably always will be.
It’s rather easy to balance a build for the map you want to use it in. It’s very hard however to balance a build to any team you run it possibly with. Without making any changes my HSE tank can play superhero in a 250k HSE team but will be useless in a 1M DPS team there.
While I found it easy to avoid aggro with cannons as one only ends up tending to a limited amount of targets under a limited arc at any given time (and kill them fast!) things already look quite differently with beams.
With exotic/crowd control one seems to be rather high in the food chain of the critters as you simply tab on the shoulders of so many with a single attack simultaniously and it takes them long to die from it.
Again, I’m confident you do Silver DPS! That’s nothing to be ashamed about, still aim for Gold as it will end you up playing a more flexible role in light of the extremes you may encounter in random groups. I know you can do it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
It is "nice" to support your "little children", but eventually they have to plod out on their own. They need to get a taste of supporting themselves.
Your umbrella of DPS is masking a huge problem. That the other players are not doing for themselves, any more. They are waiting for YOU GUYS to make it easier. And there you are, waiting in line to DO THINGS FOR THEM.
STOP IT! It is a trap for you. It is a trap for them. They never need to learn....they don't even need to try.
THAT is the part that is missing from this game.
Throwing people to the wolves at level 50...ain't gonna cut it. Obviously.
But then, now, they figured out a way to mask everyone's actual performance.
Allowing Level 65s to over run everyone else in low level teams...what is that going to teach anyone?
What needs to happen is: lower level players need access to all the stuff that unlock Traits. Like the ones from Rep, R&D etc. People filling clicky bars at the end is stupid as hell, and doesn't teach anyone the game, either. Because in the end it is learning to use that stuff together that is important.
And it is, also, a sorry excuse for NOT creating battles worthy of players who have built their top level characters.
You guys of all people should be tired of this TRIBBLE. You should be telling them.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin