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TFO/Queue Penalties- the punishment on those trying to still complete the mission.

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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Nobody is "forced" into any map. All players are fully free to pick the queues they want. Including none.

    What we have here is a bunch of players exploiting the system by queueing for the random and then leaving if they don't get what they want. This is violating the rules of the format which say you don't get to choose the map.

    I believe RTFOs should have stricter leaver penalties. Anyone who leaves one should forfeit the extra reward box the next time they run one. And leaving multiple times should be counted and forfeit an equal number of rewards.

    People who don't actually let the game choose for them, don't deserve to get a reward for letting the game choose for them.
    That's a great idea. I second this.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,267 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Nobody is "forced" into any map. All players are fully free to pick the queues they want. Including none.

    What we have here is a bunch of players exploiting the system by queueing for the random and then leaving if they don't get what they want. This is violating the rules of the format which say you don't get to choose the map.

    I believe RTFOs should have stricter leaver penalties. Anyone who leaves one should forfeit the extra reward box the next time they run one. And leaving multiple times should be counted and forfeit an equal number of rewards.

    People who don't actually let the game choose for them, don't deserve to get a reward for letting the game choose for them.

    Problem is the system is hardly a random que. It just pops people into ques with people already in them. So its quite possible for people to troll the random ques all day long purposely queing (non random) annoying ques all day long... and being the first to warp. I'm not suggesting there are people doing that... actually I am. Yes there are people trolling the randoms quing the most annoying ques they can... and either hanging around for the chuckles or warping and doing the same on the their next toon. How many breach/spire/minor instability maps can you get going at once ?

    The main issue are the ques themselves... not the players. There are a handful of space ques that are overly long and saddled with long completion timers. There are ground maps that are super easy and ones that are super frustrating... and one that require team work and those that require none. The inconsistent nature of the ques is the #1 problem. One day you can enjoy troll free randoms and complete 10 ques in an hour. The next you can run into people constantly quing time wasting junk seeming for troll chuckles.

    Fix the ques, Fix the system.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    How many breach/spire/minor instability maps can you get going at once ?
    Breach gives anymarks. Storming the spire is probably queued by noobs that don't know about Dyson ground and Miner Instabilities is actually one of my favorite queues.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,267 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    How many breach/spire/minor instability maps can you get going at once ?
    Breach gives anymarks. Storming the spire is probably queued by noobs that don't know about Dyson ground and Miner Instabilities is actually one of my favorite queues.

    Breach isn't hard its just overlong. I haven't had any terrible breach experiences cause it can be soloed its just long. Dyson ya I don't know I just assume people queing that are trolling. Again its not like its hard it can't be failed its just overlong. I agree I like miner instabilities as well.... its just its not a que someone with a basic meh ground build is going to get through without complaining. If you don't have decent gear the advanced will see most ground noobs respawning a lot. Which can make it more painful.

    IMO Cryptic should be looking at the overlong ques. As much as think breech is a good mission perhaps the event version is what should be popping in the rando mode with reduced reward. Leave the full version a non random que. The issue with minor instabilites and really all the ground missions that require decent ground builds and actual teamwork.. would be solved with a simple Ground/Space option on the stupid RTFOs. Why Cryptic feels they have to shove space and ground on their players is beyond me. Most people prefer one or the other. I do believe the random mode leavers would be largely solved by simply splitting those two. Cryptic should have spit and polished those ques before launching the system cause everyone saw the issues coming... here is hoping they bother to do that now, that hopefully they have a better idea if they have been paying attention to which ques get broken with leaving.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    I don't agree that failing optionals or queues taking a bit longer due to incompetence makes something an "issue." It's just part of the nature of doing a random queue with random people.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Nobody is "forced" into any map. All players are fully free to pick the queues they want. Including none.


    Yeah, no. I've said it before, but whenever ppl are stumbling onto bad game design, there's always someone pulling the 'But you do not have to play the game at all!' card. Which is just an utterly pointless statement. Car not working? "Nobody is forcing you to drive your car!" Yada, yada, yada.

    Thing is, in RTFO's, you *are* being forced to play a queue, in the sense that you're not getting a choice over which one you'll be joining. The leaver penalty -- whilst iamynaught made a cogent case, saying removing it invites abuse -- really adds insult to injury. It's like saying "Yeah, of course we know you didn't want to be here, but we're gonna slap you with a leaver penalty first, rather than admitting that having you do ground was a mistake."

    The solution seems to be obvious: separate ground from space RTFO. But they won't do that either, and for the same reason they won't let you leave without incurring a penalty: it will only painfully demonstrate that ppl do not wish to be queued for certain content. After a fashion, the entire RTFO system -- while the rewards aren't bad, I'll grant them that -- is an excercise in passive-aggressive coercion.
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Nobody is "forced" into any map. All players are fully free to pick the queues they want. Including none.


    Yeah, no. I've said it before, but whenever ppl are stumbling onto bad game design, there's always someone pulling the 'But you do not have to play the game at all!' card. Which is just an utterly pointless statement. Car not working? "Nobody is forcing you to drive your car!" Yada, yada, yada.
    This is an absolutely ridiculous and baseless comparison.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Thing is, in RTFO's, you *are* being forced to play a queue, in the sense that you're not getting a choice over which one you'll be joining. The leaver penalty -- whilst iamynaught made a cogent case, saying removing it invites abuse -- really adds insult to injury. It's like saying "Yeah, of course we know you didn't want to be here, but we're gonna slap you with a leaver penalty first, rather than admitting that having you do ground was a mistake."
    LOL. There's a way around getting "forced" into doing queues that you don't want to do. Pick your own queue manually and let other people get randomed into it with you.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    The solution seems to be obvious: separate ground from space RTFO. But they won't do that either, and for the same reason they won't let you leave without incurring a penalty: it will only painfully demonstrate that ppl do not wish to be queued for certain content. After a fashion, the entire RTFO system -- while the rewards aren't bad, I'll grant them that -- is an excercise in passive-aggressive coercion.
    Originally I agreed that ground and space should be separated but I've changed my mind since I started playing tons of randoms. The reason that I changed my mind is that I realized if someone doesn't want to play ground, then they can pick a space queue manually and bypass ground altogether.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    The problem is that you CAN'T really play space and ground at the same time. If you set your specs for one, you're unable to function in the other so are basically deadweight on arrival.
    That's a huge stretch. I have zero issues completing ground advanced queues with the intel/pilot combo. I don't even swap them when I select a ground advanced queue manually. I only swap them for elite.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Nobody is "forced" into any map. All players are fully free to pick the queues they want. Including none.


    Yeah, no. I've said it before, but whenever ppl are stumbling onto bad game design, there's always someone pulling the 'But you do not have to play the game at all!' card. Which is just an utterly pointless statement. Car not working? "Nobody is forcing you to drive your car!" Yada, yada, yada.
    This is an absolutely ridiculous and baseless comparison.

    What 'absolutely ridiculous and baseless', is to reply "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!" whenever the system is being critiqued.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Thing is, in RTFO's, you *are* being forced to play a queue, in the sense that you're not getting a choice over which one you'll be joining. The leaver penalty -- whilst iamynaught made a cogent case, saying removing it invites abuse -- really adds insult to injury. It's like saying "Yeah, of course we know you didn't want to be here, but we're gonna slap you with a leaver penalty first, rather than admitting that having you do ground was a mistake."
    LOL. There's a way around getting "forced" into doing queues that you don't want to do. Pick your own queue manually and let other people get randomed into it with you.

    In other words, "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!", right?!
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    The solution seems to be obvious: separate ground from space RTFO. But they won't do that either, and for the same reason they won't let you leave without incurring a penalty: it will only painfully demonstrate that ppl do not wish to be queued for certain content. After a fashion, the entire RTFO system -- while the rewards aren't bad, I'll grant them that -- is an excercise in passive-aggressive coercion.
    Originally I agreed that ground and space should be separated but I've changed my mind since I started playing tons of randoms. The reason that I changed my mind is that I realized if someone doesn't want to play ground, then they can pick a space queue manually and bypass ground altogether.

    In other words, "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!", right?!

    Please, stop using that lame old argument, over and over again. Yes, we know you don't have to do them, but RTFO's are in the game, and, such, will be played (and thus be critiqued, when there's something wrong with them).
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    The problem is that you CAN'T really play space and ground at the same time. If you set your specs for one, you're unable to function in the other so are basically deadweight on arrival.


    Another thing, whenever I do ground, the system sets my spacebar to 'jump'. No matter how many times I revert its setting to 'Fire', it always reverts to jump. So, first thing I have to do, on ground, is quickly reset it, every bloody time. Now, there's something that's 'absolutely ridiculous'!
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    What 'absolutely ridiculous and baseless', is to reply "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!" whenever the system is being critiqued.
    Yeah no. Comparing a car that won't start to a video game that not only starts but runs and completes it's cycle is some bat-TRIBBLE logic right there. Not liking something does not equate to something not working.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    In other words, "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!", right?!

    Please, stop using that lame old argument, over and over again. Yes, we know you don't have to do them, but RTFO's are in the game, and, such, will be played (and thus be critiqued, when there's something wrong with them).
    Really? You're going to pull the straw man routine? Go back to your sandbox if you don't have anything of substance to say.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,781 Arc User
    Have to agree with meimeitoo ... the "You don't have to play it" statement is asinine. The ENTIRE point of the game is to play it! And in particular an MMO has a further need for grouped content, so yes Virginia, you DO actually have to play it.

    The similar thread to this one, pointing out that the RTFO system has brought bad content to the surface is quite correct. Much of the reason that many of the TFO's weren't being played was because of the bad design and bugs that Cryptic refuse to fix.

    I don't think they should remove the "leaver penalty" altogether, though if you happen to be the "last man standing" perhaps they could give you some leeway there (perhaps one free 'quit' ? )

    But sometimes, you are better off just waiting it out. I tried the Starbase One TFO, and of course it bugged out with no Klink spawns, But I spent an actual enjoyable 20mins or so exchanging terrible "dad jokes" with the other players, and getting some DOFF'ing done, so it wasn't all that bad really.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    What 'absolutely ridiculous and baseless', is to reply "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!" whenever the system is being critiqued.
    Yeah no. Comparing a car that won't start to a video game that not only starts but runs and completes it's cycle is some bat-TRIBBLE logic right there. Not liking something does not equate to something not working.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    In other words, "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!", right?!

    Please, stop using that lame old argument, over and over again. Yes, we know you don't have to do them, but RTFO's are in the game, and, such, will be played (and thus be critiqued, when there's something wrong with them).
    Really? You're going to pull the straw man routine? Go back to your sandbox if you don't have anything of substance to say.


    Zactly: if you don't have anything of substance to say, don't say anything at all. So, please, please, stop replying "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!" at every junction. Saying that may look cool, but it's just a meaningless one-liner, no more valuable than inserting 'And the sky is blue!' every time. Discuss the RTFO system on its merit (or lack thereof), but don't constantly say we don't have to do it. We already know that.
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  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,267 Arc User
    Its a good point... a you don't have to do this. Isn't a great defensive argument.

    Its a flawed system... for a bunch of reasons.

    - flawed inconsistent content.
    - a smash up the 2 very different games into one que. I have nothing against ground, I really don't but its not the same game.

    Those are imo the reasons people leave ques. The no one forced them argument is just stupidity. This game has always been ALT heavy, and Cryptic encourages that pretty hard with a constant new faction of the month ect ect. Its a pretty safe assumption that a large portion of the Random Queing population are not playing on their main toons. They are farming marks... and yep if Cryptic is going to add a secondary mark box people are going to farm it. If you have 30 toons and you are farming marks on 7 or 8 toons in the hour or so you are playing... why would you not warp out of some stupid 30 min space mission, or painfully slow ground mission. Move on to the next toon and roll again. Its a logical way to go. Instead your going to what burn half your playing time on some overlong, buggy mission that may well require more teamwork then your going to get to complete. I mean why run through say 20 min of ground borg to get to a final bit that may take 20 min on its own cause no one has any idea what they are doing, cause no on in their right mind has run said que in a pug ever.

    Perhaps its a jerk thing to say the logical thing is to /logout... and move on. But it is. I mean hell account ban all my toons for the entire day and you still couldn't force me to endure some of the ques. The issue is there are more people that feel that way then will admit it... and there aren't enough people playing this game for Cryptic to no understand that. There are only so many of those frustrations people will put up with before they say Ehh this X or Y other game is less annoying.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    bendalek wrote: »
    Have to agree with meimeitoo ... the "You don't have to play it" statement is asinine. The ENTIRE point of the game is to play it! And in particular an MMO has a further need for grouped content, so yes Virginia, you DO actually have to play it.

    Finally someone who gets it. :) Here, have a *hug*.
    I don't think they should remove the "leaver penalty" altogether, though if you happen to be the "last man standing" perhaps they could give you some leeway there (perhaps one free 'quit' ? )

    Funny thing, I remember there being a system in place, where you could leave with impunity, when only 2 ppl were left (or maybe it only looked that way, and the leaver penalty system was just broken, as it doesn't even always trigger). At any rate, if it isn't a rule yet, I think it should be: when only 2 ppl are left, it's fair to call it a bust.
    But sometimes, you are better off just waiting it out. I tried the Starbase One TFO, and of course it bugged out with no Klink spawns, But I spent an actual enjoyable 20mins or so exchanging terrible "dad jokes" with the other players, and getting some DOFF'ing done, so it wasn't all that bad really.

    Yeah, you can definitely wait out SB1. Done it several times myself.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    The problem is that you CAN'T really play space and ground at the same time. If you set your specs for one, you're unable to function in the other so are basically deadweight on arrival.

    What exactly do you change between ground and space maps other then maybe setting Commando as your secondary? Other then that, there is no reason you can't be set up for both space and ground, I do it all the time. What are all these huge changes that you need to make in order to function in ground combat exactly?

    Lets also remember, we're talking advanced here, not Elites. Advanced Ground missions aren't exactly difficult.
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    What 'absolutely ridiculous and baseless', is to reply "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!" whenever the system is being critiqued.
    Yeah no. Comparing a car that won't start to a video game that not only starts but runs and completes it's cycle is some bat-TRIBBLE logic right there. Not liking something does not equate to something not working.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    In other words, "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!", right?!

    Please, stop using that lame old argument, over and over again. Yes, we know you don't have to do them, but RTFO's are in the game, and, such, will be played (and thus be critiqued, when there's something wrong with them).
    Really? You're going to pull the straw man routine? Go back to your sandbox if you don't have anything of substance to say.


    Zactly: if you don't have anything of substance to say, don't say anything at all. So, please, please, stop replying "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!" at every junction. Saying that may look cool, but it's just a meaningless one-liner, no more valuable than inserting 'And the sky is blue!' every time. Discuss the RTFO system on its merit (or lack thereof), but don't constantly say we don't have to do it. We already know that.
    You've gone off the deep end. Either you're trolling or you're so deluded that you don't even realize how bad your argument against me is. In the interest of not derailing this thread (quite possibly your goal) I'm going to end this pointless argument now and get back on topic as there's no point in arguing with someone that just throws out straw mans left and right.


    I agree with the OP that players that attempt to complete queues shouldn't be punished with leaver penalties. Like I said earlier, if two people leave, the other three should be free to leave IMO. The first player that leaves should definitely be hit with a leaver penalty of some sort. At least the standard leaver penalty that we have now. The second player that leaves is a bit tougher and more of a grey area. They probably shouldn't be hit with a leaver penalty since one person already left. However, since 4 players is still typically enough to complete even an advanced queue, it makes it a tough call for me.

    As for why the leavers are leaving. Simply, they are scum and deserve their leaver penalty. They're putting other people in the position of getting leaver penalties, which is something that I think should be looked at by Cryptic. Punishing players that are actually trying to play is never good.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,267 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Yes if one person leaves no one else should incur any penalties. Collective punishment is a war crime.

    I think the thing is though... Cryptic can never get themselves into a situation where they account ban someone, as we all know Cryptics servers suck at the best of times and disconnects and other random Stuff happens in their game. While at the same time... they encourage everyone to have 10+ toons... so 30 min per toon penalties do NOTHING to deter people skipping out on stuff. 30 min on the next toon wouldn't be any different.

    So cryptic really has no way to deter people from skipping out on randoms they don't want to do. Which leaves the only logical course of action.

    Removing the reasons people skip out.

    That is 100% on cryptic. They should have the data now on which Ques people are skipping out on. Give them a coat of polish... fix whatever bugs they have... shorten them if need be. Its not rocket science figuring out why people skip out on any specific que where its happening. Its up to them to remove those objections or go the nuclear route and remove those ques from the random rotation.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    In other words, "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!", right?!

    Please, stop using that lame old argument, over and over again. Yes, we know you don't have to do them, but RTFO's are in the game, and, such, will be played (and thus be critiqued, when there's something wrong with them).
    There's nothing wrong with RTFO's. They work exactly as they're supposed to. The system chooses a map for you (as in, you don't get to choose one yourself) and in exchange you get an extra reward. If that seems like a bad deal to you, you're free to choose your own queue(s) instead. Which obviously won't get you the extra reward since you didn't do what was required to earn it (let the game choose for you).

    Some people wanting to have their cake and eat it too is not Cryptic's problem.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,765 Community Moderator
    Wait. 30 minutes? That's not a Leaver Penalty, that's the queue cooldown timer. Geez, here I am thinking that maybe there's an actual bug here.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    In other words, "Nobody is forcing you to do RTFO's!", right?!

    Please, stop using that lame old argument, over and over again. Yes, we know you don't have to do them, but RTFO's are in the game, and, such, will be played (and thus be critiqued, when there's something wrong with them).
    There's nothing wrong with RTFO's. They work exactly as they're supposed to. The system chooses a map for you (as in, you don't get to choose one yourself) and in exchange you get an extra reward. If that seems like a bad deal to you, you're free to choose your own queue(s) instead. Which obviously won't get you the extra reward since you didn't do what was required to earn it (let the game choose for you).

    Some people wanting to have their cake and eat it too is not Cryptic's problem.


    I even agree with you: the base outline isn't wrong. Lumping ground and space together, though, I'm not a huge fan of that. Nor of the fact that some missions are excruciatigly long and tedious, where others are a breeze. Nonetheless, some queue normalization (duration/difficulty) would be welcome. I don't think that's going to happen, though.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    Wait. 30 minutes? That's not a Leaver Penalty, that's the queue cooldown timer. Geez, here I am thinking that maybe there's an actual bug here.


    Not when that 30 minutes is on ALL queues. :p Seriously, I've gotten leaver penalties before like that. But, like I said, it doesn't *always* give you a leaver penalty somehow -- adding to the confusion.
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,765 Community Moderator
    Ah! Well, if it's on ALL queues, then that's different. Carry on.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    @meimeitoo i do have to agree with you that it's not just a case of not playing the game as some people seem to suggest.
    The rTFO's are the best way to get a match going now so to ignore them entirely is going to leave one with no way to play, exactly like your car analogy. For those in the unfortunate situation where they end up in content hey dislike there isn't a lot of options though. And sadly i can;t see that changing. Cryptic wants people playing mixed content and the only way they seem capable to getting that is pushing us all down the same rabbit hole.

    Personally i'm slowly coming round to the system as I've had lots of really good runs with a group of fleetmates, we've been grouping up as 3-4 of us and then hitting random. We get a few randoms but even if it all goes wrong and optionals fail we still have fun. I've sort of come to realise the fight is the fun part and damn the optionals if they fail.
    Honestly though, i'm starting to enjoy some of the less popular missions (in terms of those never played by most people these days), had some fun in Infected Ground, Vault Ensnared, even Azure Neb when it works.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    The thread has gotten hijacked. There's a big difference between people leaving viable queues by choice, simply because they do not like the queue or are not "properly equipped" for it... which is what the leaver penalty was designed for... and people leaving queues which are bugged into a state of being uncompletable, or are (arguably) uncompletable because there are not enough players remaining to viably complete them. (There's one specific queue that, due to interacts, literally requires a minimum of two players... leaving aside any concerns about damage.)

    Such as the example of my bugged-out Bug Hunt. The map was bugged to the point that the mission could not be progressed... all the other players had left... and I still got hit. Either one of those reasons SHOULD mean that no penalty is given... much less both happening at the same time!

    Yeah good points. Quite a difference between dropping out because you didn't like the luck of the draw (due to tastes, poor equipment or whatever) and needing to get out or spend eternity in there as it's impossible to complete.

    Thankfully though the list of missions that can end up in the second case is pretty slim it seems, despite some initial bad experiences from some players. There's very few missions where you actually "need" anyone else to be present to win, you might loose optionals going solo and it might take ages, but most are possible.
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  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    Overall, I like the RTFO. So much so that I have basically decided not to take a break from STO to play Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas using the Tales of Two Wasteland mod which allow players to create a single character to play both games; meaning your character can travel between the Capitol Wasteland and New Vegas.

    Anywaste... I play both space and ground missions two of my favorite top 5 TFOs are actually ground missions; BotSE and MIE. I would say UIE was in my top 10 favorite TFOs, but noobs basically wrecked it because they would mess up the interrogation phase of the mission. So... yeah the only elite TFO mission that can fail before firing a single shot. The RTFO has made some of the dead queue missions playable again (even though the ground missions are not elite) and it also revitalized my interest in many of the Borg ground missions that I have not bothered queuing up since back in 2014 when I first started playing STO. I tried many times but generally gave up in frustration back then because of lack of overall experience in STO and in the PUGs I was in nobody really explained what to do.

    Fast forward to just a few weeks ago and I am starting to enjoy the Borg ground missions that I skipped so long ago. KSA is pretty quick and not too hard at first; but it became pretty easy after a few more missions. CGA was pretty the first time around which took 45 minutes to complete; it was not hard, it was just because even the two veterans on the team has not played in a very long time the rest of us noobs had no idea what to do. However since then CGA has been completing faster with veterans remembering what to do and us noobs learning what needs to be done. Quick time is less than 20 minutes. IGA is definitely the more challenging of the 3 missions because of the final boss battle. In one instance, 2 players dropped out of the mission by the time we got to the last stage of the mission. It was not pretty, but the remaining 3 of use were able to complete the mission. I probably played these 3 missions a total of 13 times since RTFO went live and only fail IGA once due to people getting frustrated with the mission. I have not played HGA yet...


    I am glad there is no option to choose between space and ground TFOs because then ground TFOs would be harder to get into. Based on my tracking of missions that pop, at best I only get into ground missions 33.333% of the times and that was back during the first few days after RTRO went live. Since then it has fallen off. I typically rotate through my characters every time I play STO; I play 4 characters and do 6 RTFOs per character for total of 24 missions and there have been times when I had zero ground TFOs for the day. Sure I can queue up the mission, but then I will not get the random RTFO reward box for extra marks and Dil.

    The only mission that I am dreading to be pulled into is Tzenkethi Front because players do not seem to know what the %$%#@ ^*%&%#*@ %%^$%!# $%^#!%@ *$$#!@&amp;@ they are doing!!! I ranted enough about it on STO Reddit, but suffice it so say that at best this mission has a 50% success rate based on my experience after the launch of RTFO.
  • scrappyjwgscrappyjwg Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    i would like to thank everyone for their input so far into this.

    i do like RTFO's especially with friends. the are some i dont like of course some that are overly long but doable.

    for context the RTFO i had trouble with making impossible to complete was one of the tzenkethi space ones. destroying the space stations. at this point i wasn't with friends and running my tank build on my tank character. had a few players leave and the 2 other players left camped the star-base even though at that point the optional was long gone and we only needed to destroy the bases.

    me on the other hand had one bomb and every tzenkethi not attacking the star-base attacking me so couldn't drop said bomb.

    despite telling team multiple times what needed to be done

    i wasn't dying because of the build i have but the was no way i could complete the mission on my own.

    I've had some others since where the is no timer and they are horrendously long. i feel especially with the older missions that no-one remembers the should be some hints involved to say hey go here , do this etc instead of loads of players having no clue.

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