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Bring back random exploration missions?

Am I the only one who would like to see a return of the random nebular exploration missions?

I mean, in an updated way. If the devs would put in the resources worth of otherwise one or two seasons we surely could have a nice new system that would provide a lot of replayability in the long run.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    They were garbage and had nothing to do with exploration but the name.

    And lol @ the devs putting "one or two seasons" worth of resources on one sidequest. :D
  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    As a different random source with procedural generation, it could be interesting for a more 'exploration' focused season. I'm not sure how to do it hit a proper variation sweet spot (Five random groups scattered over the map, kill, done, scan for resources, on to the next system where someone is after artifacts of the Borg Fifth Dynasty)
    Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker

    Member Access Denied Armada!

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,164 Arc User
    on to the next system where someone is after artifacts of the Borg Fifth Dynasty)

    Third. Its the Third Borg Dynasty.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,436 Arc User
    The Exploration system could have been fixed with a mix of procedural missions, foundry missions, and dev-created missions. It would have been a good way of doing random foundry missions.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,164 Arc User
    All the procedural missions had a flaw. Either repeating the same old kill or fetch objectives, or spawning enemies underground preventing completion outright.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 8,504 Arc User
    Or the terrain cutting you off from one or more of your doffs so you had to try to finish without them. That still happens sometimes now in story missions when they won't go through a door, but it was much worse back then. They'd walk off a cliff or fall through the ground, leaving you forever.

    If STO had the resources of WoW then sure, put team C and the student interns on it.
  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    on to the next system where someone is after artifacts of the Borg Fifth Dynasty)

    Third. Its the Third Borg Dynasty.

    Oops, well, it is an updated version. :) I'm not sure the 'fetch or kill' issue could be solved since it's the core mechanic and harder to disguise - I guess some randomness of ambushes, running in, patrolling, would help.
    Or the terrain cutting you off from one or more of your doffs so you had to try to finish without them. That still happens sometimes now in story missions when they won't go through a door, but it was much worse back then. They'd walk off a cliff or fall through the ground, leaving you forever.

    For a game with 'play with a crew' as a selling point, there is a lot of times and missions the crew seems to get completely lost on.

    Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker

    Member Access Denied Armada!

    My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    I am finding the Foundry missions pretty nice for "exploring" new maps.

    I would do the objectives (like exploding all the tribble hills)...then run around the ground maps to look at the geography. I can do the same on those Foundry missions. ONLY, I can do it in SPACE in Foundry missions as well a ground. There are pretty interesting....all the combinations real people come up with instead of spit out by random.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    I would recommend that Foundry authors be allowed to enter missions for 'Exploration' clusters and then they are queued to a list that puts the next one in line for your next exploration attempt. Make them region specific so Klingon regions get Klingon missions, Defera regions get Defera missions, etc. Of course, the STO crew would have to vet the missions to be sure they fit before adding them to the lists.
  • wylonuswylonus Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    i missed those random mission so much, it has a feeling of classic explorations, used to do those "cluster zone" missions. it was mostly good enough for restocking supplies, EC (credits), and chance of random rare drops.

    quiet often i do encounter some bugs, not very good ones. it made my away team vanished or fell under, or pathing blocked, and rarely had hostiles keep shooting me thru the walls and they are untargetable.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    > @brian334 said:
    > I would recommend that Foundry authors be allowed to enter missions for 'Exploration'.....

    It may already exist...But who can tell with that search in there.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    > @brian334 said:
    > I would recommend that Foundry authors be allowed to enter missions for 'Exploration'.....

    It may already exist...But who can tell with that search in there.

    I mean that specific parameters be set for exploration missions by the development team who then reviews the mission submitted by the foundry author before accepting it as an exploration mission. When your captain flies to one of the specific exploration nodes the list of available missions for that node simply offers you the next one on the list.

    Parameters might include:
    15 to 30 minute playtime
    Explore new worlds, seek out new life and new civilization
    Be an individual stand-alone episode not requiring other episodes before or after to complete the story

    Everyone knows the foundry search is less than effective. I'm not advocating more of that. I'm advocating the developers make use of the talent pool the foundry has generated to create content for the game.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,608 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    I would recommend that Foundry authors be allowed to enter missions for 'Exploration' clusters and then they are queued to a list that puts the next one in line for your next exploration attempt. Make them region specific so Klingon regions get Klingon missions, Defera regions get Defera missions, etc. Of course, the STO crew would have to vet the missions to be sure they fit before adding them to the lists.

    Second for including Foundry with any exploration revamp. It would help alleviate the inevitable grind from short-form randomization of whatever kind Cryptic likely uses for exploration tasks. Also it would allow players to fill in whatever kind of content they feel is lacking in the system. Ex. story driven episodes (which Cryptic may not be able to make themselves to adequately populate the system.)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Lets be practical: When would the Devs have time to review these Foundry missions?

    Plus, sadly, where is the incentive for them. Do they want to mix user created content with their own content? You would think they could have done it by now.

    When your captain flies to one of the specific exploration nodes the list of available missions for that node simply offers you the next one on the list.

    I don't think anything in this STO program is that flexible.

    They would have to come up with an entirely different way to use the program...kinda like DOFFing Chain Assignments with video game missions connected to them. It may take less programming time to only add "exploration" mission to the Mission highlights already in the game.

    Mission highlight system set up where you can fly by location and it contains a list of Foundry missions connected by the authors to that "door". It is definitely not tracking each and every person who flew by and where the were in the progression of that list. It is always the same static list, even if you already completed the mission. At least, it is on the KDF side...I don't even get out to sector on my Feds.

    I am not even sure Foundry missions have a flag that would tell the program it is one YOU have done before?

    (Which reminds me I have to get more of those ViL Challenge missions done this weekend)
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,111 Arc User
    No... We don't need them brought back. What we need is a true exploration system that has real meaning, where what we discover persists and can potentially have lots of uses for lots of different people. With NO time gates on activities. And it would not be limited to exploration, but would include colonization and industrialization. And when sentient species are discovered, Diplomacy needs to factor in.

    Ideally, the exploration system would be automated, but have an open door for Cryptic to drop content in that would automatically be rolled into the system when a defined condition is met, such as the next discovery of a Class-M planet where a certain type of resource is available. Or on a certain date at a certain time. Or when the next planet is discovered.

    The old exploration system was a joke and a half and always felt, at least to me, like a placeholder for something more robust and meaningful.
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,608 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Lets be practical: When would the Devs have time to review these Foundry missions?

    It's a self-adjusting problem. Missions appropriate to exploration clusters tend to make it out of review and appear in the top 3 system. The minimum Cryptic would need to do is just open up whatever point of contact there is for a revamped exploration system as a Foundry door. Community can take care of the rest. If Cryptic wanted to go further, they could take a look at the tag system and search filter (potentially applying to the top 3 system as well, so the results there can also be filtered [helping players organically find what they're looking for].) But, as stated that's not what they would need to do (at minimum) to involve the Foundry with exploration 2.0.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,164 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Lets be practical: When would the Devs have time to review these Foundry missions?

    The occasional Foundry Spotlight?
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,608 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    rattler2 wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Lets be practical: When would the Devs have time to review these Foundry missions?

    The occasional Foundry Spotlight?

    Kael's also been playing through the ViL challenge missions too. Devs certainly wouldn't be able to vet all Foundry content going into an exploration system (that would just be spotlighting via another means) but I think the suggestion that they would ever need to do that just to include Foundry with new exploration is itself unrealistic. ;)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,111 Arc User
    Foundry isFoundry… Exploration, if It is ever to really become a part of STO, needs to be its own thing, designed from the ground up to have us... I don't know... EXPLORING...

    Slapping foundry doors on exploration clusters and calling it exploration is just a lazy cop-out. Unless they add a new branch to Foundry for Exploration content, and when designing missions in that branch, the system requires that they be produced a certain way to ensure they fit the narrative for exploration. If people can make a single map mission that only requires scanning one thing, and they put that one thing right at the start point, then they will. Especially if there is any sort of reward associated with exploration. We've already had that sort of thing put a blemish on regular Foundry missions, which resulted in the mess we have with the foundry listing that push everything but a few missions into obscurity so most players won't even know about it unless they visit the forums.

    So no... Unless foundry has specific applications for exploration, I would rather it remain its own thing. And if foundry is the only way we can hope to ever have anything even remotely pretending to be exploration content, then I would rather not have exploration...
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    If people can make single map mission that only requires scanning one thing, and they put that one thing right at the start point, then they will.

    What a waste that would be. But not sure with the current Foundry, it can be stopped???

    I am doing those ViL Foundry Challenge missions....I have to say: LESS map changes in Foundry missions the better!!!! Map changes in Foundry takes a long time and draws everything out. I lost track of the story on one of them.

    Spreading out the objectives around the map does make things more interesting for me...because it is "hunting around"...and one can take different paths, integrating "looking around" with the mission. And inside buildings/ships going from room to corridor to room....whether or not there are objectives in all those locations.

    Those things make it feel like exploring. But it must take a lot of time to do with the Foundry program.

    Definitely, having a person put things together on a map is much nicer than the random ones.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,608 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    So no... Unless foundry has specific applications for exploration, I would rather it remain its own thing. And if foundry is the only way we can hope to ever have anything even remotely pretending to be exploration content, then I would rather not have exploration...

    I don't see any value in separating the two for the sake of just being able to say "Cryptic, build it all yourself!" That's very limiting to the type of exploration we can have in STO. Are folks wanting something like vanilla No Man's Sky or exploration in the style of episodes of Star Trek (where it's background to thoughtful narrative and drama) with tremendous variation in how much "investigating the unknown" featured in the narrative (some episodes were about the unknown, others about the human reaction to the unknown, and others were about human personal relations [with the unknown as window dressing.]) I have seen people make suggestions regarding both under the same umbrella topic. This is the problem in developing for an ideal, everyone has their own interpretation and for a developer to make good on exploration their system needs flexibility. If the Foundry can contribute, by all means let it contribute. We gain nothing through isolation.
    where2r1 wrote: »

    I am doing those ViL Foundry Challenge missions....I have to say: LESS map changes in Foundry missions the better!!!! Map changes in Foundry takes a long time and draws everything out. I lost track of the story on one of them.

    Spreading out the objectives around the map does make things more interesting for me...because it is "hunting around"...and one can take different paths, integrating "looking around" with the mission. And inside buildings/ships going from room to corridor to room....whether or not there are objectives in all those locations.

    I think these points are go-to advice for any foundry mission; frequent and unnecessary map transitions, vaguely defined objectives, and not making effective use of map space are detrimental to any Foundry mission and it is the responsibility of Foundry authors to learn how to effectively build for their audience and their expectations (both through feedback but also looking at STO missions, analogous content in other games, and other Foundry missions to critically assess how best to approach their stuff.)

    As for populating exploration 2.0 with appropriate missions: one thing we could do is run a few Foundry challenges for exploration areas to build a roster of missions under some guidance that could set a strong baseline for how to best approach exploration in this venue. Couple that with a revamped set of tutorial videos and web guides for new authors to help improve the general standard of mission creation by new authors (Cryptic's interested in generally improving STO guides, and Roundtable would certainly be willing to produce the stuff as it relates to the Foundry.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Well, there is indeed the Star Trek angle. Because while exploration was often the explanation of why the ship was on the planet-of-the-week getting into trouble with the aliens-of-the-week, the story was always about the trouble never the exploration. We don't need an "exploration system" for this, we already have episode missions.

    On the other hand, actual exploration would have the player on a large unknown map for the purpose of finding something interesting to study and/or collect. Because this is a videogame, we may assume there would be something interesting to find in every area, even though in reality that would not always be the case. This could in theory be done with procedural generation, though I wouldn't know about STO in particular. But the old "exploration" system certainly wasn't this, because the maps were not unknown and the player was not there to find anything, just to shoot and/or click on whatever they were told to shoot and/or click.

    But consider, we just had an episode which briefly disabled the minimap and it drew immediate complaints about how "frustrating" it is if the game goes even a moment without constantly telling you exactly where to go and what to do. And we know that's the kind of player Cryptic likes to please...so really, what are the odds they'd even want to add content where players had to actually think for themselves all the time?
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,817 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    I know patrols were old content but I kind of wish there were some in the Gamma Quadrant since the only reason you go there currently is for mission episodes and the battlezone. I would like to revisit certain places from the show on ground missions, the place where the hologram people and their city from the DS9 episode "Shadowplay" would be interesting.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    They forgot DOFFing in Gamma Quad, too. Come to think of it, DOFF assignments is another thing I get to "look around" for. Maybe that is why I like it. That was the first thing I did when I went through the Worm Hole.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 8,271 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    They forgot DOFFing in Gamma Quad, too. Come to think of it, DOFF assignments is another thing I get to "look around" for. Maybe that is why I like it. That was the first thing I did when I went through the Worm Hole.
    They have talked about having plans to add colonization duty officer assignments to the GQ at some point
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,668 Arc User
    Exploration was abandonware at one point but it's full on abandoned right now since it's removal. I remember when the first Lukari featured episode came out and Cryptic blogs talked about how "exploration" would be the "theme" and "focus" after the end of the Iconian War. That lasted for all of about 2 or 3 featured episodes before it was back to blowing up baddies.

    Seeing is believing. I'll believe that there will be an exploration system when I see it in game.

    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,436 Arc User
    Exploration was abandonware at one point but it's full on abandoned right now since it's removal. I remember when the first Lukari featured episode came out and Cryptic blogs talked about how "exploration" would be the "theme" and "focus" after the end of the Iconian War. That lasted for all of about 2 or 3 featured episodes before it was back to blowing up baddies.

    Seeing is believing. I'll believe that there will be an exploration system when I see it in game.

    Had my hopes up with some new Exploration content, but had it completely ruined with babysitting another race's exploration and the eventual massacres. The Mirrors and Smoke mission where we landed on the Kentari planet was the closest to Exploration that we have had in a while. A completely new planet and alien race that didn't have everyone wanting to kill our away team.

    Procedurally generated Star Trek exploration content is far too different from other space games like No Man's Sky and Star Citizen. Star Trek exploration has always been about the story rather than scanning unique planets, spacial anomalies, rocks, plants, and animals. We would need an extremely powerful AI that creates personal stories for procedurally generated Star Trek exploration.
  • boggisboggis Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    No... We don't need them brought back. What we need is a true exploration system that has real meaning, where what we discover persists and can potentially have lots of uses for lots of different people. With NO time gates on activities. And it would not be limited to exploration, but would include colonization and industrialization. And when sentient species are discovered, Diplomacy needs to factor in.

    Ideally, the exploration system would be automated, but have an open door for Cryptic to drop content in that would automatically be rolled into the system when a defined condition is met, such as the next discovery of a Class-M planet where a certain type of resource is available. Or on a certain date at a certain time. Or when the next planet is discovered.

    The old exploration system was a joke and a half and always felt, at least to me, like a placeholder for something more robust and meaningful.

    I absolutely agree that the old exploration system was sub-par to say the least. With bringing back I was more thinking of something in the spirit of exploring new (randomly or procedurally generated) systems. Maybe getting a personal but sharable exploration map generated by a solid and substantial system.

    While the missions generated by this will probably never be on the same level as manually generated ones I would love to have some smaller bite-sized missions to delve into for a quick game. The existing patrol missions are of a nice length in comparison.

    While there are great foundry missions out there, many of them tend to be longer in duration and for a quick round of STO in the evening I often don't want to search through tons of foundry missions.
  • luminaire#0745 luminaire Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    As a random aside, in my naivete when I first saw 'Age of Discovery' it didn't even click about the new show, I was just like "Oh, maybe the long awaited exploration revamp and some new content?" and then of course I realized that no, it's another time travel pseudo faction and excuse to push lotto boxes for TRIBBLE stuff.
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