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What Could We Teach Better?

ambassadorkael#6946 ambassadorkael Member, Administrator Posts: 2,537 Community Manager
STO has a ton of systems in the game, and we're looking to revitalize how we teach them to you. What do you think would be the most important part of STO to teach to a new player, that we don't currently show off well?

I'm talking about the kind of things that you need to know to succeed in the game, but players generally find out by, say, coming here rather than learning organically through gameplay.
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  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,813 Arc User
    The basics of building your ship, the amount of bad builds I've seen over the years shows that players have no advise concerning that
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • alfred399alfred399 Member Posts: 181 Arc User
      The basics of building your ship, the amount of bad builds I've seen over the years shows that players have no advise concerning that

      I'd agree, but maybe also go a step or two further.

      In other words, give players a "basic" build in a few categories - e.g. a basic beam, cannon, projectile, exotic, tank etc. Show the types of gear, captain skills, specialisations and BOFF powers, plus the optimum sequence you should trigger your powers that make each build work. Explain WHY these builds work well enough.

      That way, new (and probably some more experienced also) players can begin to understand what works well on a particular standard build, and then either use that as-is and improve, or use it as a decent starting point for them to experiment further.

      Of course, the gear used should be easily obtainable by the average player - i.e. crafted, mission rewards, reputation and/or fleet gear only.

      You could then expand later on maybe with some more exotic gear, such as C-Store, Lockbox etc, or some more niche builds as appropriate
    • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
      Awesome, that's a needed thread.

      Shipbuilding is obvious. No need to go fully into details, but the gear that comes with the ships could be much more optimal. For example, either dual (heavy) cannons + a torp front and turrets and for other ships single beams front and aft + perhaps a torpedo front. So that the new player wouldn't try to copy the current default layout that's incredibly awful.

      Ability activation. Just basic stuff. For example, at one point in tutorial, you'd need to activate first Emergency Power to Weapons, then Tactical Team, then Attack Pattern Beta and then Fire at Will at rapid succession.

      Power levels. Explain what exactly does what, how you can change the values manually (not only presets) and why it is preferable to have high weapon and auxiliary power levels.

      Finally, point players to more advanced resources. I'm fully aware in-game tutorial can't cover everything, but excellent guides need more promotion, just like you did with Qthulu's. Either have some kind of in-game window that'd list all of complicated damage formulas, what piece of equipment belongs to which category etc etc, or take the easier way out and have something in game point to https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/index.
    • alfred399alfred399 Member Posts: 181 Arc User
      Also, Option 2 - how to run each of the queues, and what to do to get the optionals.

      Number of times lately I've been in PUG Tzenkethi RA's and been the only one paying attention to the torpedoes, for instance :)
    • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,813 Arc User
      alfred399 wrote: »
      The basics of building your ship, the amount of bad builds I've seen over the years shows that players have no advise concerning that

      I'd agree, but maybe also go a step or two further.

      In other words, give players a "basic" build in a few categories - e.g. a basic beam, cannon, projectile, exotic, tank etc. Show the types of gear, captain skills, specialisations and BOFF powers, plus the optimum sequence you should trigger your powers that make each build work. Explain WHY these builds work well enough.

      That way, new (and probably some more experienced also) players can begin to understand what works well on a particular standard build, and then either use that as-is and improve, or use it as a decent starting point for them to experiment further.

      Of course, the gear used should be easily obtainable by the average player - i.e. crafted, mission rewards, reputation and/or fleet gear only.

      You could then expand later on maybe with some more exotic gear, such as C-Store, Lockbox etc, or some more niche builds as appropriate

      Good points
      NMXb2ph.png
        "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
        -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
      • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 55,811 Community Moderator
        I'd have to agree. Shipbuilding would be a good one to help players get a grasp of how things work in STO since we're not as locked down by character class as other RPGs.

        Later on I'd have to agree that getting at least a basic knowledge of STFs might help as well.

        But definately the builds. Even a basic broadside cruiser build is enough to handle Infected, but knowing how to set one up is key.
        66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
        I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
        The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
        The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
      • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
        alfred399 wrote: »
        Also, Option 2 - how to run each of the queues, and what to do to get the optionals.

        Number of times lately I've been in PUG Tzenkethi RA's and been the only one paying attention to the torpedoes, for instance :)

        In fairness a lot of the queues do actually tell you what to do, or at least have a briefing. Trouble is nobody ever reads it, and that's not just limited to new players either.
        SulMatuul.png
      • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 55,811 Community Moderator
        lordsteve1 wrote: »
        alfred399 wrote: »
        Also, Option 2 - how to run each of the queues, and what to do to get the optionals.

        Number of times lately I've been in PUG Tzenkethi RA's and been the only one paying attention to the torpedoes, for instance :)

        In fairness a lot of the queues do actually tell you what to do, or at least have a briefing. Trouble is nobody ever reads it, and that's not just limited to new players either.

        But... but... who needs to read anything when you can just pew pew DPS everything to death! Because brute forcing everything is obviously the answer to live, the universe, and everything. ;)
        66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
        I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
        The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
        The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
      • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,899 Arc User
        There needs to be documentation in the game, not only quick tutorials. If a player chooses to, they should be able to read the manual - as in manuals (handbook) that used to come with boxed games many moons ago. This documentation needs to ecplain basics, like how damage works. What is "base damage", what is actually influenced by a buff, what is damage reduction and so on. None of these things is explained anywhere.
        lFC4bt2.gif
        ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
        "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
        "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
        "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
      • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
        Oooo...something that's not mentioned yet -

        THE BACKSTORY AND PLOT!!!

        I mean come one Cryptic, you write all this amazing story blogs and background story and a new player joining now never even knows it exists! Why the hell can you not add it to the ingame library in the ready room, or to an ES terminal. Something to make the game world feel a little bit more "alive" would be nice.

        Doesn't really deal with mechanics issues, but it shouldn't be neglected.
        SulMatuul.png
      • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,815 Arc User
        Power levels. Explain what exactly does what, how you can change the values manually (not only presets) and why it is preferable to have high weapon and auxiliary power levels.
        For certain playstyles. I'm not very quick about things, so it's better for me to keep either thrusters or shields highest, to provide me with either the ability to withstand damage, or to get out of Dodge when I realize how many enemies I've inadvertently aggroed because my cruiser handles like a cow with a head injury. But it would be good to have something in the tutorial mentioning these settings, so the player knows something about how to choose them and why.
        Lorna-Wing-sig.png
      • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
        edited August 2018


        Not 'live' :)
        'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
        Judge Dan Haywood
        'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
        l don't know.
        l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
        That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
        Lt. Philip J. Minns
      • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
        lordsteve1 wrote: »
        Oooo...something that's not mentioned yet -

        THE BACKSTORY AND PLOT!!!

        I mean come one Cryptic, you write all this amazing story blogs and background story and a new player joining now never even knows it exists! Why the hell can you not add it to the ingame library in the ready room, or to an ES terminal. Something to make the game world feel a little bit more "alive" would be nice.

        Doesn't really deal with mechanics issues, but it shouldn't be neglected.

        They used to have it on the website (along with an in-universe overview of all the major factions), but took it all down because "the wiki does that job for us". I'm still peeved about that; the lore was what brought me into STO in the first place.

        There is the daily event at Starfleet Academy, but that's in bits and pieces that aren't even given in chronological order.
        NJ9oXSO.png
        "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
        -Thomas Marrone
      • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,125 Arc User
        alfred399 wrote: »
        In other words, give players a "basic" build in a few categories - e.g. a basic beam, cannon, projectile, exotic, tank etc. Show the types of gear, captain skills, specialisations and BOFF powers, plus the optimum sequence you should trigger your powers that make each build work. Explain WHY these builds work well enough.

        Definitely don't need anything this detailed as you want to avoid cookie-cutter builds. Not sure this is even needed given the criteria in the OP. In my experience, the average player learns most of this organically and through experimentation.

        Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
        thecosmic1 wrote:
        Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

        Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
      • alfred399alfred399 Member Posts: 181 Arc User
        valoreah wrote: »
        alfred399 wrote: »
        In other words, give players a "basic" build in a few categories - e.g. a basic beam, cannon, projectile, exotic, tank etc. Show the types of gear, captain skills, specialisations and BOFF powers, plus the optimum sequence you should trigger your powers that make each build work. Explain WHY these builds work well enough.

        Definitely don't need anything this detailed as you want to avoid cookie-cutter builds. Not sure this is even needed given the criteria in the OP. In my experience, the average player learns most of this organically and through experimentation.

        I was suggesting this more along the lines of - these are standard builds with standard gear etc - and this is why they work. Kinda as a baseline for players to then be able to build off, as they'd actually understand the concept behind the build in a bit more detail than just "don't mix cannons & beams", or "don't use rainbow builds" etc. Of course, that might encourage cookie cutters, but if it was presented as a starting point with white quality gear for example, most players would at least go and get better gear - which would then encourage them to experiment due to the choice they'd have.
      • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,125 Arc User
        alfred399 wrote: »
        I was suggesting this more along the lines of - these are standard builds with standard gear etc - and this is why they work. Kinda as a baseline for players to then be able to build off, as they'd actually understand the concept behind the build in a bit more detail than just "don't mix cannons & beams", or "don't use rainbow builds" etc. Of course, that might encourage cookie cutters, but if it was presented as a starting point with white quality gear for example, most players would at least go and get better gear - which would then encourage them to experiment due to the choice they'd have.

        I understand what you meant, however it is something that I believe most people will learn on their own in game simply by reading and visual cues. You can clearly see the increase in values between common to Epic gear. That's not something I would say needs further explanation.
        Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
        thecosmic1 wrote:
        Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

        Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
      • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,662 Arc User
        STO has a ton of systems in the game, and we're looking to revitalize how we teach them to you. What do you think would be the most important part of STO to teach to a new player, that we don't currently show off well?

        I'm talking about the kind of things that you need to know to succeed in the game, but players generally find out by, say, coming here rather than learning organically through gameplay.

        Play-through tutorials for each Rep queue adapted for single player that new accounts must complete on one character. Learning organically through gameplay is wasted on some! A step-by-step (and first-time unskippable) playthough would help alot of unsure players in the game and highlight the value of hitting Optionals!
        "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
      • alfred399alfred399 Member Posts: 181 Arc User
        valoreah wrote: »
        alfred399 wrote: »
        I was suggesting this more along the lines of - these are standard builds with standard gear etc - and this is why they work. Kinda as a baseline for players to then be able to build off, as they'd actually understand the concept behind the build in a bit more detail than just "don't mix cannons & beams", or "don't use rainbow builds" etc. Of course, that might encourage cookie cutters, but if it was presented as a starting point with white quality gear for example, most players would at least go and get better gear - which would then encourage them to experiment due to the choice they'd have.

        I understand what you meant, however it is something that I believe most people will learn on their own in game simply by reading and visual cues. You can clearly see the increase in values between common to Epic gear. That's not something I would say needs further explanation.

        I see what you're saying but there's more to putting good gear than mark or rarity - there's also how to compare different pieces of gear to understand how they'll work together, that's more than just the mark or rarity of individual items.

        However, putting gear aside for a sec, there is still the point that getting the most from your build also depends on the right skills (captain and BOFF), and firing them off in the right sequence, and at the right point in combat - this isn't something that's explained too well IMO, I often see (and to be fair, do it myself sometimes) players firing everything in any haphazard sequence, that is almost certainly reducing their overall effectiveness
      • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
        lordsteve1 wrote: »

        In fairness a lot of the queues do actually tell you what to do, or at least have a briefing. Trouble is nobody ever reads it, and that's not just limited to new players either.

        Exactly the V-Rex fight in the Dyson Battle zone is a prime example of this.

        1. Omega Silo level metre
        2. Voice over telling you to shoot engineers (although when targeted they are medics)
        3. Fly in warning via chat window.
        4. Actual tutorial the 1st time you enter the zone.

        Yet folks still pound on a V-Rex and silos fail

        You can't teach common sense. I've worked in customer service for over 17 years and even if you hand the info directly to someone like for instance a phone bill all itemised, they still want "you" to read it to them.



        maR4zDV.jpg

        Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
      • locutusofcactuslocutusofcactus Member Posts: 650 Arc User
        This thread needs that MVP graphic from @baddmoonrizin

        I'd also say ship builds. Below are some commonly asked questions from players both new and not new to the game that aren't easily answered by a quick pm in chat:

        1. "I put a console on my ship that says +10% dmg. Why doesn't my dmg go up 10%?"
        2. "What are cat A and cat B dmg?"
        3. "What are diminishing returns and how are they calculated?"
        4. "What are key binds and how would I use them?"

        STO math sometimes can't be simplified but it can be explained better. I don't know if tooltips, an interactive STO calculator, video guide or whatever would be best but ship builds definitely could to be taught better.
      • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,662 Arc User
        This thread needs that MVP graphic from @baddmoonrizin

        I'd also say ship builds. Below are some commonly asked questions from players both new and not new to the game that aren't easily answered by a quick pm in chat:

        1. "I put a console on my ship that says +10% dmg. Why doesn't my dmg go up 10%?"
        2. "What are cat A and cat B dmg?"
        3. "What are diminishing returns and how are they calculated?"
        4. "What are key binds and how would I use them?"

        STO math sometimes can't be simplified but it can be explained better. I don't know if tooltips, an interactive STO calculator, video guide or whatever would be best but ship builds definitely could to be taught better.

        I agree.

        The vast majority have no idea about Cat A or B damage because it is never mentioned anywhere in the game. Things such as damage boosting consoles do need more clarity in whether it's just boosting the just base value or an overall damage boost after the fact.
        "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
      • usskentuckyusskentucky Member Posts: 402 Arc User
        Ship builds, reputation progression, traits, doffing ... most areas need an in-game place to go for info. I think you’ll be able to crowdsource a lot of info just in threads like this. From there, you just need to refine and tweak them into written lessons. I’d avoid adding a bunch of tutorials. Instead, use some of the empty rooms on the Academy grounds as “classrooms.” Have a sign on the door that says, “Builds 101” or “Reputations 101” and have NPCs inside that provide the information in written form, spelling out things like his weapon sets work to provide bonuses, how procs stack or don’t stack, how the categories of damage work. Internally, you’d want to come up with a list of learning objectives. You’d want to evaluate mastery through assessment. You could create accolades for this. Player logs the first lesson in Builds 101, “Equip a Set.” And then an accolade pops up when they do it, “set master.” You could check your data and see how many new players get the accolade after reading the lesson to see if it is working. My guess is that many new players would skip all of this stuff and get right into stories. But once they decide to improve they’d likely go back and pour over the lessons to get better. I mean, you could take the Federation History quizzes concept and have actual tests if you wanted to do actual tutorials. But a reward system might be more interesting for gamers.
      • bejaymacbejaymac Member Posts: 448 Arc User
        lordsteve1 wrote: »

        In fairness a lot of the queues do actually tell you what to do, or at least have a briefing. Trouble is nobody ever reads it, and that's not just limited to new players either.

        Exactly the V-Rex fight in the Dyson Battle zone is a prime example of this.

        1. Omega Silo level metre
        2. Voice over telling you to shoot engineers (although when targeted they are medics)
        3. Fly in warning via chat window.
        4. Actual tutorial the 1st time you enter the zone.

        Yet folks still pound on a V-Rex and silos fail

        You can't teach common sense. I've worked in customer service for over 17 years and even if you hand the info directly to someone like for instance a phone bill all itemised, they still want "you" to read it to them.



        That's down to the dil farmers, newer players hear that Dyson ground is one of the best places to get dil, and it's from shooting V-Rex, what they don't find out until later is that they don't get anything if they fail to secure the silo.
        Having an instance full of bots doesn't help either.
      • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
        angrytarg wrote: »
        There needs to be documentation in the game, not only quick tutorials. If a player chooses to, they should be able to read the manual - as in manuals (handbook) that used to come with boxed games many moons ago. This documentation needs to ecplain basics, like how damage works. What is "base damage", what is actually influenced by a buff, what is damage reduction and so on. None of these things is explained anywhere.
        Yeah it'd be nice to have an in-game explanation of how DR works in STO I'm mostly guessing about stuff like resistances and how much bonus damage you get from things.
        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
        My character Tsin'xing
        Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
      • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,552 Arc User
        edited August 2018
        Maybe have a database people can reference to look up ships and captains like the armory in WoW lets you look up people. That way people can see how other people are doing things and get a better feel for how they should go with their character.

        Honestly when I first made an engineer I had NO idea how I should take it. It wasn't science with all the healing abilities and it wasn't tactical with all the pew pew boom abilities. I found myself taking it in a direction that leaned more towards a tactical style game play but that was just by being a tactical captain before that. Since the Tank/healer/dps setup doesn't really exist in STO because everything is a power creep DPS blowout I'm not sure there is much beyond doing things the tac way anymore outside of mysterious science voodoo space magic builds. And even that is stated to be better done on tactical captains by some people.
        Green people don't have to be.... little.
      • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,125 Arc User
        edited August 2018
        alfred399 wrote: »
        I see what you're saying but there's more to putting good gear than mark or rarity - there's also how to compare different pieces of gear to understand how they'll work together, that's more than just the mark or rarity of individual items.

        True, however there is a big difference between explanation and experience. Telling a player that "mixing these pieces will do x" or "using this complete rep set will do y" is much different than the player experimenting on their own and learning organically on their own. Remember, not everyone is a DPS chaser and is looking for the "optimal" build.

        If anything, my personal preference would be a holodeck simulation where you had access to any gear in the game and allowed you to change your skills on the fly so that you could test out a build before committing. All of this would only work on the holodeck. I also like this idea as a means to do mini-tutorials for various BOFF and Captain skills that can better teach players how/when to use them.

        I also believe the UI could be improved here to let players know when they are hitting caps via skills or gear etc.
        Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
        thecosmic1 wrote:
        Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

        Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
      • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,125 Arc User
        edited August 2018
        ruinthefun wrote: »
        No, you DON'T really want to avoid cookie cutter builds. Cookies exist because they are delishus. The average player is too broke to AFFORD to be experimental, and should probably start with "My First Spaceship" as a cookie-cutter build that WORKS instead of some "creative" trainwreck that they have neither the tools nor experience to properly assess, having never experienced a baseline from an actual working ship.

        If everyone is the same, then the game is boring and serves to discourage players from trying new things to make their play fit their style. Sorry, it's not a good idea - at least for STO.

        Remember, the game is advertised as;
        Your Missions, Your Way


        As a Captain, build your avatar, bridge crew, and starships for a completely personalized Star Trek experience.

        Cookie cutter builds don't allow for that.
        Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
        thecosmic1 wrote:
        Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

        Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
      • dragnridrdragnridr Member Posts: 671 Arc User
        edited August 2018
        As been said before:
        When getting a new ship, we are not asking for MK XV epic gear on brand new ships, but we are asking for the ships to have either a full beam or full cannon set up on the ships so new players that don't know can have an idea on how a PROPER ship set up should be. Example: When you get the Tier 5 Dyson Destroyer, it isn't loaded with beams AND cannons of what ever energy is picked for your faction, but it is loaded with Dual Beam Banks and Beam arrays and a fore and aft torpedo of BASIC Mk X Protonic Polaron, since the ship syncs well with that energy type.

        And what about a basic tutorial about the "Right way" to spend your skill points.

        What about a tutorial that goes more into how the systems work, instead of just a one sentence clickable text box. Especially for new players.

        I just wanted to get my two strips of latinum,

        All in all, if you want a way to have a better tutorial, bring back the "Holy Trinity" of Healer/Tank/DPS. Otherwise just make everything Tac based and give ONLY one set of skills and just be done with the whole damn thing.
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