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Ideas for expanding out the 23rd century for more playability.
davidwford
Member Posts: 1,836 Arc User
I have been trying to grind out a TOS character exclusively in the 23rd century and had a few ideas on how this part of the game can be expanded for affectianos of the original series. First step would be to expand the TOS map to include the Risa, Kassae, Xarantine, Aldebaran, Donatu, and Archanis sectors.
Patrol missions easily ported from 25th century to 23rd century. Most of these either involve the Naausicans, Gorn, or Orions as enemies which still works in the 23rd century, or they involve scanning objects without combat.
Teneebia Sector: Icarti System, Elvren System Patrol
Rator Sector: Chulan System Patrol
Vulcan Sector: Beytan System, Bhea System, Pico System Patrol
Argelius Sector: Europani System, Kei System, Pellme System, Ruben System, Xleen System Patrol
Orion Sector: Kinjer System, Reytan System Patrol
Celes Sector: Mandel System, Maro System, Veela System, Watran System Patrol
Risa Sector: Donia System
Kassae Sector: Cernan System, Dace System, Sandah System Patrol
Xarantine Sector: Donteri System, Honod System, Seedea System Patrol
These missions could be ported over, but require some work or explanation:
Eirhees System Patrol: Remans, still workable, but need a justification for why they are in violation of the Neutral Zone
Servin System Patrol: Orions salvaging a Borg Sphere. While the Orions are fine, the Borg are out of place in the 23rd century.
Khoolhaas System, Omar System, Tayi System, Kern System, Una System Patrol: Klingon ships which would need a 23rd century make over.
Storyline missions reworked for TOS characters operating in the 23rd century:
Everything Old is New, Night of the Comet, Past Imperfect, Core of the Matter, Terminal Expanse
Add a 23rd century Deep Space Station K-7. The PvP tutorial missions with the exception of Kerrat Warzone should be accessible from this location as TOS is already as subset of Federation faction. A vendor on K-7 could sell Klingon TOS disruptors.
TRIBBLE a 23rd century Drozana Station. As well as being the launch point for the Specters missions, it should also have a vendor selling Romulan, Vulcan, and Andorian plasma weapons.
23rd Century ESD should have bank and mail access. There is no reason why items deposited by a TOS character in the 23rd century would not be able to reclaim those items after being shunted 200 years into the future. I would think that temporal investigations would be aware of the character's need for them in the future. The consoles between Admiral Garrett's office and the Transporter work for this.
23rd century ESD should have a DOFF contact as well as consoles for doing lore missions. The TOS characters are temporal agents after all, and will need to know this stuff, even before being transported to the future. The Yeoman outside of Admiral Garrett's office can work as the contact for this.
Ships for 23rd century LTCDRs and CDRs:
Add to the shipyard the Refit Connies for LTCDR characters. Possibly add a regular non C-store(-1 Tac console slot, change Lt univ station to Ens Sci) Daedalus class science ship as well so players can choose between either a cruiser or science ship.
Add the Constellation class cruiser (non C-store, disable Dakota, Cheyenne, and Stargazer options until after Battle of Caleb). Add the Horizon class science ship and disable Olympic and Hope class options. The canonical explanation for these would be that the ship is the second or third commissioned of its kind.
Patrol missions easily ported from 25th century to 23rd century. Most of these either involve the Naausicans, Gorn, or Orions as enemies which still works in the 23rd century, or they involve scanning objects without combat.
Teneebia Sector: Icarti System, Elvren System Patrol
Rator Sector: Chulan System Patrol
Vulcan Sector: Beytan System, Bhea System, Pico System Patrol
Argelius Sector: Europani System, Kei System, Pellme System, Ruben System, Xleen System Patrol
Orion Sector: Kinjer System, Reytan System Patrol
Celes Sector: Mandel System, Maro System, Veela System, Watran System Patrol
Risa Sector: Donia System
Kassae Sector: Cernan System, Dace System, Sandah System Patrol
Xarantine Sector: Donteri System, Honod System, Seedea System Patrol
These missions could be ported over, but require some work or explanation:
Eirhees System Patrol: Remans, still workable, but need a justification for why they are in violation of the Neutral Zone
Servin System Patrol: Orions salvaging a Borg Sphere. While the Orions are fine, the Borg are out of place in the 23rd century.
Khoolhaas System, Omar System, Tayi System, Kern System, Una System Patrol: Klingon ships which would need a 23rd century make over.
Storyline missions reworked for TOS characters operating in the 23rd century:
Everything Old is New, Night of the Comet, Past Imperfect, Core of the Matter, Terminal Expanse
Add a 23rd century Deep Space Station K-7. The PvP tutorial missions with the exception of Kerrat Warzone should be accessible from this location as TOS is already as subset of Federation faction. A vendor on K-7 could sell Klingon TOS disruptors.
TRIBBLE a 23rd century Drozana Station. As well as being the launch point for the Specters missions, it should also have a vendor selling Romulan, Vulcan, and Andorian plasma weapons.
23rd Century ESD should have bank and mail access. There is no reason why items deposited by a TOS character in the 23rd century would not be able to reclaim those items after being shunted 200 years into the future. I would think that temporal investigations would be aware of the character's need for them in the future. The consoles between Admiral Garrett's office and the Transporter work for this.
23rd century ESD should have a DOFF contact as well as consoles for doing lore missions. The TOS characters are temporal agents after all, and will need to know this stuff, even before being transported to the future. The Yeoman outside of Admiral Garrett's office can work as the contact for this.
Ships for 23rd century LTCDRs and CDRs:
Add to the shipyard the Refit Connies for LTCDR characters. Possibly add a regular non C-store(-1 Tac console slot, change Lt univ station to Ens Sci) Daedalus class science ship as well so players can choose between either a cruiser or science ship.
Add the Constellation class cruiser (non C-store, disable Dakota, Cheyenne, and Stargazer options until after Battle of Caleb). Add the Horizon class science ship and disable Olympic and Hope class options. The canonical explanation for these would be that the ship is the second or third commissioned of its kind.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments
@davidwford: Like you, I've got an AoY guy with whom I refuse to leave the "good old days"! (Currently about Level 48). I agree with you entirely; and wish, in addition, that they'd expand it to allow for TOS Romulan and Klingon AoY PC's (even less likely than your wishlist). Personally, I wish the ENTIRE GAME was 23c., and they'd stop wasting time and resources on 25c. nonsense, but that's just me (and even LESS likely to happen than anything else)!
The Bank feature seems like a truly outrageous oversight with no justification, since we CAN access the Account Bank. So it's OK to zap things between characters in different centuries, but accessing our Character Only Bank is game-breaking? That makes no sense. Personally, I've always though we should be able to access Bank and Mail from aboard our ships, instead of Account Bank. The Bank is your cargo hold, Mail is subspace radio/transporter. The Account Bank should be the one you have to go to a hub for, as that's trading with your other captains. It really seems like the rationale for which amenities should be ship- or base-bound was poorly thought out.
Anyway, 100% with you!
Cryptic could even justify the effort by having the red alert show up some weekends in the modern era.
Thanks for the support. And well done keeping you character there in the "good old days". I was trying to grind the Klingon Ship kills when the character was shunted forward right as I was trying to warp out. Considering that we have to enter the temporal ready room to do the mission "Return To Babel" and have to completely restart the mission if we do not complete it in one go, there is no excuse why after the timer runs out, the character doesn't have the opportunity to beam back to the ship right before the battle and stay there in the 23rd century. Think "Time TRIBBLE" concept from Chrono Trigger(https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Time_TRIBBLE.html).
While I disagree that the whole game should be 23rd century, I do support expanding areas of play where possible. Which is why I am irritated that they removed the cluster exploration zones. Considering that there is an earnest desire among some for playing in the Kelvin Timeline, I fail to see why 23rd Century Beta Quadrant could not cater to both TOS and Abramsverse fans.
I am not sure how to explain TOS Romulan and Reman Characters shunted to the 25th Century, but I would support TOS/TMP/WOK Klingons as a "premium" playable Klingons. Perhaps these "stable" augments exclusive to the KDF would blend abilities from both Humans and Klingons. Something to represent the Human DNA that "tainted" the Klingon genome. And for a TOS era Empire tutorial, a non cloaking D5 would be the starter ship, the K'Tanco and Somraw (but not the Qual'dun) would still be usable in the 23rd century. And the K'Tinga is very appropriate for TMP/WOK before the character is moved to the 25th century.
davefenestrator, never say never. The Devs swore for years that there would never be a T5 Consitution. Surprise, it has since been added. Or rather, T6 versions but the point was that they did not want to create endgame connies.
That was meant as a joke, hence the wink smiley. Even I'm not that extreme...mostly.
On the other hand, one of my Delta Recruits is a 23c. Romulan, that I "head-canon" explain as having been brought forward by the Delta Recruits people in a Temporal Ops snatch at the moment of his ship's destruction (as they later did in-game for AoY). So TOS Romulans in the 25c. is no harder to explain than TOS Feds or TOS Klingons.
And knowing is half the battle!
21 'til I die!
It's not
The show might be canon, but it has nothing to do with TOS, any more than the Kelvin timeline does. TOS is TOS, with its 60s era designs not 21st century re-imagining.
If they did do it though I'd love to see it NOT have to do with temporal stuff...
Honestly I think New Romulus needs a minor revamp to replace a bunch of those NPCs with Romulan Republic NPCs rather than Imperial. I mean the Mountain Base instance still has rescuable Romulans who are wearing IMPERIAL uniforms rather than Republic, and are tagged as Imperial rather than Republic.
I agree. Both Deferi Invasion Zone and New Romulus need major revamps.
In Deferi Borg invasion, the crafting officer as well as the mission "Plumbing Power" still use the old crafting system and as such, I am lucky if I can get it to craft one item a day.
Besides fixing the major bugs that have cropped up, they really should also have a map for T5 Romulan Reputation. And unlike with the AoY, the player could choose which map to beam down to. While it would still have the same doorway accesses (Warehouse, Mountain Pass, Overgrown Caves, Underground Power Plant), the main map would be more developed. In addition, completing tasks on this map would be quicker as the % complete for doing those tasks would be higher, say double amount.
You would be surprised what can be achieved in just a few months. Hell, the Lukari have managed to build quite the colony, but the Romulans are still in the initial stages of construction?
My point is that in addition to a more developed Romulus, the T5 map can also include some of the after-effects of the Ionian invasion.
Not so. Pre-fab nor not SOME of the structures on Dewa Three are prefab such as the warehouse. Others are not. Same goes with the Dranuur Colony. Some of those things, such as the renewable energy are NOT so easily installed pre-fab buildings.
Also, have you forgotten the Embassy? That is most certainly NOT a pre-fab structure. Neither is New Romulus Command that only Republic characters have access to.
^_^ V
Also would of loved Agents of Yesterday to have done a full anthology series from TOS to TMP era to the 70 years missing from Enterprise B to D era, the 30 years after the dominion war and then ending up in the 25c after the Klingon Arc of the normal Federation timeline to have it's own origional story line.
But ces la vie.
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By that logic, ESD itself has no place even being in AoY at all; the entire concept for that station was a TMP creation from the 80's-90's and never even existed in TOS.
They had the K-Type Starbases that are accurate to TOS.
Agreed. As often as Daniels interacted with Archer and company after his death (apparently), there is no reason why a TOS character cannot return to his timeline (for the sake of argument, the Time B*stard theory). Hell, Chekov went back with the character to the Babel conference though he stayed out of sight for the most part.
I think it is harder to create 23rd century RSE, Gorn, and Klingons, but I would humor the idea for the sake of argument. Some of the issues I will list below.
For 23rd century Klingons, the map most certainly would need to be expanded south to Aldebaran, Donatu, and Archanis Sectors. You would also need to expand it East to the Pheben and B'Moth sectors. That would leave a large chunk of the Northeast portion of the map inaccessible due to the Romulan Neutral Zone barrier on the 23rd century map, assuming that KDF players would have access to the same part of the map as 23rd century Feds.
For 23rd century Romulans, the reverse would be an issue where more than half of the map would be inaccessible. One way of dealing with that is to create a Klingon Neutral Zone barrier extending across the Donatu Sector through Drozana Station (so both factions can beam aboard) to the Xarantine Sector and into the Azure Sector where it would meet up with the Romulan Neutral Zone. 23rd century Klingon and Romulan characters would be on the East side of those barriers with the Feds on the West side.
Gorn players in the 23rd century is even more difficult. Where is the Gorn Hegemony? Cestus System is on the bottom of the map, but Gorn space is beyond the map. I would prefer the maximum of 8 sectors extends one more block north on the main map rather than to the south.
In all of those cases, most of the patrol missions from the 25th century would not properly port into the 23rd century. A lot of time and energy would need to be expended to create a whole slew of missions for 23rd century Romulan and Klingon players, while porting over the patrol missions from the 24th century over to the 23rd century maps would simply reuse already existing materials with very little effort. Even bringing back the Genesis Cluster Exploration (which were removed in season 9.5) would greatly help with expanding the 23rd century character progression. That gets to something of an irritation I have with KDF and Republic characters: that most of the system patrols from the Romulan and Cardassian fronts are not available. Both cluster exploration and system patrol missions from those fronts need to be made playable for Klingon and Romulan Players.
The reason that system was removed was that it was practically null content. Using it to "expand" 23c character progression would be a terrible substitution between story content with much more variable gameplay (ie. their current progression) and the barest possible minimum STO can probably offer (without the player simply being given a "warp out?" contact prompt immediately upon loading the map, but "exploration" was perilously close to that with the supply delivery task...)
Because most of those scenarios would need to be rewritten and the time required to do that probably won't be met with a concomitant uptick in player usage (sufficient to justify the effort.) It's old content, might as well put the time into creating new multi-faction system patrols or something else that'll have greater utility.
And I will have to ask: why does Cryptic need to go back and fill out 23c? Yes, you can define gaps relative to the core FED (nevermind their integration into the FED...) but what would filling those get us besides simple content for an arc that's (by AOY's age and resolution) well played? Is there a good story, that isn't redundant to existing arcs and brings us somewhere new, or is this just about checking boxes at the expense of other development that could do much more?
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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My character Tsin'xing
It's not like writing a new mission, it's nothing more than changing whatever line(s) of code that specifies what enemy NPC to use and then saving the "new" mission, then flagging the mission to only be accessible to AoY toons. Heck, have it accessible to all players, I'm sure even non AoY players would have fun fighting old TOS enemies every now and then.
I hope that was sarcastic. With how often it is flaunted, temporal agents have very little standing to make that cheap excuse. In that regard, the Nakul at the temporal accords are sympathetic much like the unenhanced Suliban in "Detained". Vosk and Krog are to the Nakul at large much as how Silik and the Cabal were a radical fringe to the Suliban at large.
Most of us are NOT asking to touring and sight seeing in the 23rd century. We are simply asking that TOS characters stay in their native timeline. What says that the Battle of Caleb IV didn't occur after the events in TMP, but before Wrath of Khan? it would make more sense to recruit a Commander/Captain/Admiral contemporary of Kirk rather than some lowly expendable Lieutenant Redshirt (Mallory, Grant. Leslie, etc.).
Null content? Matter of opinion. Something is better than nothing. And at game launch, it WAS the filler material between levels. It was only removed because some hotshot felt it was not up to their standard. I will concede that the mission "Supply Delivery" was TRIBBLE, but the rest were basically random selection of the same missions used in system patrols, but with different NPCs and maps.
As for the Cardassian and Romulan system patrols, little to NO changes are needed for KDF characters. Much as the listed patrol missions in my original post need almost no changes to use in the 23rd century. And by the standard you just used, they should be completely removed just like the cluster exploration missions.
Just because the Temporal War is resolved in the future, doesn't mean we still don't have a role to play in the past.
Not quite true. The whole point is to STOP people other than Daniels and his arrogant pals from abusing time travel. THEY, however, are quite free to play god and doom anyone's planet to extinction, which is what caused all this mess in the first place. If someone had simply murdered that moron Kal Dano's parents before they met, the Not'Cool (tm) would never have started a ruckus, because their star wouldn't have been offed. Even easier, if our captain had been allowed to make Kal Dano take 5 minutes to reignite their star BEFORE burying his I-just-made-it-cause-I thought-it-would-be-neat toy in a Risa cave (instead of giving us the Idiot Ball), there also wouldn't be a problem.
Personally, I'm for taking the Krenim ship out for a spin and erasing Kal Dano from history. What could possibly go wrong?*
*For pedants with no sense of humour, this was a joke. Don't waste time rebutting the above, it's not serious.
Seriously though, this thread isn't about temporal tourism for modern folk, it's about suggesting more content for 23rd century folk who would rather stay and play there. Or play then, I should say (temporal jargon, as Douglas Adams suggested, is unique). In any case, there are more of us than you think. Not a majority of players, by any means, and probably not enough to make it worth Cryptic's while, but not just one or two. I've seen quite a few ships in 23c. commanded by Lt. Commander or better officers. So the OP and I are not the only ones enjoying our "time".
My character Tsin'xing