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Official Landing Page Feedback Thread

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  • trekpuppytrekpuppy Member Posts: 446 Arc User
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    "-Grind is good!" --Gordon Geko
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    RE. above: isn't that telling Cryptic that one aspect of the landing page works extremely well? Why would they develop an opt-out option now!

    Doomed us all, pop-upalocalypse will only get worse. The world is lost, cower beneath thy buckets. :tongue:
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • kronin#4685 kronin Member Posts: 325 Arc User
    @duncanidaho11
    I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. Allow me to elaborate. I don't play Neverwinter. It may be a great game, but it's not my thing. But, I'll just try to use it as an example. Let's say Neverwinter has a bad feature that annoys the snot out of it's player base. Said feature devalues the game. Now, before devs add such a feature to STO, they would do well to figure out if players of Neverwinter actually like that feature or not. If the devs take a bad feature from Neverwinter that annoys Neverwinter players, and add it to STO, then the likely outcome is that STO players will be annoyed and STO will be devalued. When the devs decide to add a feature, the one and only reason for doing so should not be "everyone else is doing it". That kind of logic reminds me of school kids who start smoking because "everyone else is doing it".

    I will concede that the landing page has potential. Did you notice that I offered some feedback on how to improve it? The landing page could become a good thing. It just has to offer something far better than what it's doing now.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but my feedback has nothing to do with a mere "reaction to change", as you suggest. I love positive change, and I can make a list of positive changes that have come to this game since I've started playing. I have never recoiled in reaction to any of those changes on day one. (To be stupidly technical, this is day two. Anyhow...) As I said, this change adds nothing positive for me. If that's because I am not the target audience, then stop hitting me with it. Do something else to more accurately target your target audience.

    Also, my post said nothing about the bug. I know the devs are working on it, and I commend them for doing so. My post was about the content of the landing page.
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    I like it.
  • hellurehellure Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    Folks, the landing page is not intended to trigger with every login. This has been confirmed by Kael and repeated through this thread.

    People don't usually read entire threads before commenting. But they do come to the forum to find or make a thread to comment on a subject. Most people here are commenting on the subject or the content of the Original Post.

    BTW, it's customary on forums to update Original Posts with valid updates.

    When the OP adds the update about the Landing Page only being meant to be a once per account load, and for a fix to be coming ASAP, then we can expect the discussion to shift to people not finding the content useful (needing better/more/different content), not appreciating the delay while logging in (needing an 'off' option), or not appreciating the delay while returning after a crash that occurred while playing (maybe it should be a first login per day only feature?).

    Regular players don't usually need or want to be nagged/harassed by the games they play (especially not paying customers). But reasonable people are generally happy to have functional resources when they need them.

    My suggestion would be to just mod the event calendar screen, and have it be the landing screen. But only 'force' it for first login after a lengthy time away (maybe 30 days). And provide an option for people who want to see it upon first login each day; or maybe after each update/patch.

    *Note: I tried posting a similar comment, but there was a glitch in the Quote tags, and it seems to have disappeared while I was trying to 'edit' to correct the glitch.



  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    A friend of mine told me that the landing page is also in Champions Online, but only upon first login. She says it's not part of the main menu. Two other friends tell me that the landing page is not in Neverwinter's main menu either; it's a separate window that you can bring up if you so choose.
    Post edited by frtoaster on
    Waiting for a programmer ...
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  • harlequinpixieharlequinpixie Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    It still spams every character swap for me.

    Oops not patched yet!
  • disqord#9557 disqord Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    Well, it's stopped appearing after every login, but it still shows up on the escape menu and still has no useful information.

    I still don't want the thing.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    Seems like the patch today wasn't for this getting fixed.

    And I am curious to hear the reasoning behind having a welcome screen tied into the process of logging out.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    @duncanidaho11
    I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. Allow me to elaborate. I don't play Neverwinter. It may be a great game, but it's not my thing. But, I'll just try to use it as an example. Let's say Neverwinter has a bad feature that annoys the snot out of it's player base.

    Let me stop your hypothetical with a real example: Neverwinter has a landing page and it doesn't "annoy the snot" out of its player base. I'm playing Tera right now. It has a landing page that works exactly like the current bugged page in STO. I've never felt it was worth commenting on until now.

    Replication and context what's needed here. This might be a stretch but it's possible that never in the history of the internet has a community reacted this way to a landing page. Landing pages may have annoyed people but the level of mechanical annoyance here is (when you describe the problem) less than the new queue UI (which we endured with far less hostile discussions.) So are other factors contributing to this? That's an important question to ask oneself (in any discussion) to be sure that one has a handle on their responses and can apportion then effectively. And I will say: yes, there is. It's the fact that it's new to STO. In every other example I know of (all passing without significant comment), the landing page launched with the game. I even had to point out to a console STO player that they have a landing page embedded into their character select screen. They see it every time they swap characters by design and no one else noticed it.

    And that doesn't strike you as important? It's the same game being given a comparable feature and while there are differences in implementation those are not sufficient to say "we have cross uncharted territory." People have a consistent set of reactions to stimuli and no group has the claim to being wholly unique among the species. We do typically react the same way to the same situations. So when the same feature doesn't trip the threshold of a community-level emergency in other cases, one has to look at other contributing factors to appreciate the degree of emotion on display. And it's new is the most consistent explanatory variable for that. It is acting in tandem with the minor frustration of a pop-up to produce an unexpected reaction in the community. There we have this thread and why folks in STO are producing an exceptional reaction to an ordinary (if slightly annoying if you get your news in other ways) feature.

    That should be openly addressed to provide a better argument for making changes to the landing page (which should happen, there's lots of room for improvement). Some of that discussion has taken place but it's been supplanted by unironic "WORST.THING.EVER." So, my recommendation is to take several points as read (I sincerely believe this will help us moving forward):
    1. Cryptic knows we don't like this (whatever the circumstance, it's a thing that's happening)
    2. Updates will surely be made
    3. What those updates are is part of an ongoing process of development
    4. It would probably help Cryptic to know what exactly we wanted changed, given our unique circumstance (with "GET RID OF IT!" also being taken as registered feedback.)

    For example: (I've tried to aggregate what people have been suggesting)
    1. Add an opt-out option
    2. Add a link to patch notes
    3. Add a link to the calendar
    4. Add ongoing events
    5. Add active sales
    6. Add Foundry spotlights
    7. Move the main menu UI to the center so it syncs with log-out confirmation
    8. Allow WSAD keys to close the landing page (helps avoid that feeling of being trapped by it)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • fun4ever#6757 fun4ever Member Posts: 45 Arc User
    plz, REMOVE it from ESC menu!
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    wow, when I use to log off there was a nice tiny box... now I get a 4 panel add that takes up half? the screen. one really needs the ability to opt out of this forced ad spam.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,251 Arc User
    “And I will say: yes, there is. It's the fact that it's new to STO”
    I strongly disagree the problem isn’t that’s its new, it’s that it’s a massive eye sore and so badly designed. I have played many games with splash screen over many years. Even games that didn’t have a splash screen and had them added. None of them caused a problem like this. A prime example I play The Division a lot. It had a splash screen added and it was great. It didn’t get a reaction like this as it wasn’t so horribly designed.

    The problem is not that a splash screen has been added and is new. The problem is it’s been very poorly designed. Just like the new queue UI which is still after all this time horrible to use and worse than the old UI.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    I think it would be more valauble to put the landing page out one a week (one character per account, in order to avoid langing page spamming), say 10am PST or whatever it is in summer time on a Tuesday on that week. This would clear any usual maintienence and patching cycles and it would it would bring up information most needed.

    if someone is logged in their character when the time has lapsed, instead of forcing a window pop up, there is a popup warning on the side of the screen, a small icon that can be clicked which brings up the landing page.

    i agree that essential information should be put on the landing page like patch notes and what not. it will require a GUI change most certainly to make it friendlier, make it a list down the side with seperate sections on the game, this way more things can be added to the landing page.

    As it is? it is lacking a bit in what is needed rather than what is convienent which is what is on display at this time. Frankly it should be pulled from live and put on tribble for a few weeks, get a good view on things, different styles of GUI and UI features.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    i agree that essential information should be put on the landing page like patch notes and what not. it will require a GUI change most certainly to make it friendlier, make it a list down the side with seperate sections on the game, this way more things can be added to the landing page.

    Another way is to put a full set of tabs along the top that link to (for example): Patch Notes, Calendar, Sales, Foundry (the full what not). These could also flash green when there's new information (new patch, new event listed on calendar, new sale, new spotlight). I'd reserve the sides for links that use symbols (ex. admiralty, duty officers, reputation), just a little bit more readable that way. :)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • daciaeternadaciaeterna Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Wth is that thing ( "Welcome to STO" ) and why is that there ? It makes the toon changing more tedius and annoying. Also every time i change a toon that menu is apeering in my face. Many people have at least 10 toons and actually change those toons several time for various stuff.

    (Flaming comments moderated out. - BMR)

    If one is actually doing contraband and admiralty this is even more annoying to the point were one decided he had enough. I am in such a position i am fed up after only one day. I will refine what i have and never do cb or admiralty again it this stay; i had enough of my share if annoying stuff for one game.

    That UI called :"Welcome to STO" need to be put at initial game menu and never apeer again in players face.
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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    • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,579 Community Moderator
      Another way is to put a full set of tabs along the top that link to (for example): Patch Notes, Calendar, Sales, Foundry (the full what not). These could also flash green when there's new information (new patch, new event listed on calendar, new sale, new spotlight). I'd reserve the sides for links that use symbols (ex. admiralty, duty officers, reputation), just a little bit more readable that way. :)

      Huh... I kinda like that idea.

      Maybe it can be like the BIG news, like events or the Expansion, is on the main page we always see, and we have categories that we can sort through for other news, like C-Store sales, new queues, ect.

      THIS is the kind of feedback that actually matters! Constructive.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVhTDNlbsSc
      db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
      I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
      The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
      rattler2 wrote: »
      Another way is to put a full set of tabs along the top that link to (for example): Patch Notes, Calendar, Sales, Foundry (the full what not). These could also flash green when there's new information (new patch, new event listed on calendar, new sale, new spotlight). I'd reserve the sides for links that use symbols (ex. admiralty, duty officers, reputation), just a little bit more readable that way. :)

      Huh... I kinda like that idea.

      Maybe it can be like the BIG news, like events or the Expansion, is on the main page we always see, and we have categories that we can sort through for other news, like C-Store sales, new queues, ect.

      THIS is the kind of feedback that actually matters! Constructive.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVhTDNlbsSc

      good get the ball rolling at least.
      T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
      Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
    • humblesheephumblesheep Member Posts: 423 Arc User
      Emergency Patch today - Hooray!!

      Did they fix it?...

      Did they fix it?...

      Nope!...

      ...Silly me!
    • shadowkoshshadowkosh Member Posts: 1,688 Arc User
      get rid of landing pad most annoying thing ever and the players hate it
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    • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,215 Arc User
      Still annoying how the main menu is now on the left of the screen while the confirm box is in the middle, it's really annoying when switching between toons a lot.
      I stream on Twitch, look for Avoozl_
    • djxprimedjxprime Member Posts: 522 Arc User
      Dear Lord! The landing page even pops up in Preview Mode in the Foundry Editor! :s:s:s

      Please give us an option to disable this or fix it to where it doesn't pop up so often!
      Kkerp5u.jpg?1

      "No matter where you go...there you are."
    • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,579 Community Moderator
      djxprime wrote: »
      Please give us an option to disable this or fix it to where it doesn't pop up so often!

      @djxprime
      Its only supposed to be once per account. Not every character. They're working on it.
      db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
      I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
      The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
      edited May 2018
      rattler2 wrote: »
      djxprime wrote: »
      Please give us an option to disable this or fix it to where it doesn't pop up so often!

      @djxprime
      Its only supposed to be once per account. Not every character. They're working on it.

      Yeah, the impact on the Foundry is going to be minor (even assuming no other changes are made) once the frequency bug is fixed. I wouldn't recommend that any special accommodations be made for the editor (dev time better spent sorting out other extant Foundry issues, they all have greater impact.)
      Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
      Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
      Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
    • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
      I've been thinking more about why putting the main menu and the landing page in the same window bothers me so much. It's not just the extra mouse movements and the menu being shoved off to the side, though that's part of it. It also makes no functional sense. What do the functions of the main menu have to do with finding new content and buying keys? Nothing, as far as I can tell. Rearranging the HUD, changing game settings, changing characters, logging out, exiting the game — all of these are functions that deal with the software itself. They have nothing in common with new content and purchases and don't belong in the same window.

      It makes me wonder about the thought-process of the person who designed this feature. "When users try to rearrange the HUD, change game settings, change characters, log out, or exit the game, what they really want is to see a huge window advertising new content. . . . . Wait, that doesn't sound right. Oh, I know! What users really want is to buy keys! Buy keys when you rearrange the HUD! Buy keys when you change game settings! Buy keys when you change characters! Buy keys right before you log out!" Yeah, that's what users really want, obviously.
      Waiting for a programmer ...
      qVpg1km.png
    • hfmuddhfmudd Member Posts: 881 Arc User
      As long as it's still appearing whenever one hits ESC, it's not "only appearing once per account per day."
      You say that's going to be fixed? Please fix it.
      Join Date: January 2011
    • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,826 Arc User
      rattler2 wrote: »
      djxprime wrote: »
      Please give us an option to disable this or fix it to where it doesn't pop up so often!

      @djxprime
      Its only supposed to be once per account. Not every character. They're working on it.

      They aren't working on it fast enough! It should have been disabled with today's patch until they fix it instead of leaving it there until they get around to fixing it, which could be a few months. Considering there are still bugs in this game that predate the original head start launch...
    • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,970 Arc User
      edited May 2018
      I also don't really like the loading page not just because it is repetitive (the blogs, their social media, etc) but because it is a block of text. It does not need to be that big, it needs to be medium size or smaller. Also, it does not need to be connected to the esc button, instead it could be on the Character Select screen like it is for the console version.

      Thinking of this, I have no problem with the new UI queue system, though there needs to be a notification that in about 5 seconds or whatever they choose for the timer, that a queue is about to begin, and then click that button instead of being whisked away from whatever one is doing without any warning usually. This was a plus in the old queue UI.

      I have a different problem with the Admiralty UI, I liked that in the DOFF UI I can click complete on one assignment and then go down clicking all the complete assignments as I go down, though they also could add a new thing to the UI called Complete All Assignments and save some clicking. While with the Admiralty one, I click one and then have to scroll down to click the next one and continue the tedious process all the way down, again a button for Complete All Assignments would be a nice touch. Those are my two cents on a lot of things UI.
      Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
    • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
      edited May 2018
      jcsww wrote: »

      They aren't working on it fast enough! It should have been disabled with today's patch until they fix it instead of leaving it there until they get around to fixing it, which could be a few months.

      Okay. They didn't so it's still here. You know that today a bug was patched that was preventing people from playing the game, full stop? Note that tthat issue wasn't met with the same level of absolute demands as having to click X once upon logging in. In the Foundry I also have to alt-tab to be able to enter text. At the start of the year when we got the Foundry back online we also had to acknowledge an error pop-up, then alt-tab to use controls. And we didn't have to do that once per character. We had to do that once per map preview. And how did we respond? We dealt with it, it was a trivial issue.

      Cryptic's heard the feedback from this thread and we can probably expect some changes in the relative near future (starting next week, Thursday is probably the most likely date for the patch of the confirmed frequency bug, assuming no additional emergency patches Monday or Tuesday.)
      sthe91 wrote: »
      I also don't really like the loading page not just because it is repetitive (the blogs, their social media, etc) but because it is a block of text. It does not need to be that big, it needs to be medium size or smaller. Also, it does not need to be connected to the esc button, instead it could be on the Character Select screen like it is for the console version.

      Character select screen would be sensible for news blurbs but it couldn't directly connect to queus and episodes (you would need to log in first). There is an argument to make that what we have now in the landing page could be retrofitted to the front page of the mission journal (they have similar functions, the front journal page just needs to be re-arranged a bit and given a welcome message.) But by default I still think STO needs some kind of welcome page (with an option to disable if pop-ups happen to be someone's kryptonite.) It's a pretty customary way of providing the general community with easily accessible information that can then directly connect them to that content in game.

      PS. and if an updated mission journal becomes the welcome page then that would free the ESC menu. One button brings it up both ways, with J being more directly linked to finding content to play.
      Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
      Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
      Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
      Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
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