Borg revamp to be made more leathal?

salvation4 · March 2018

Hear me out here..

The borg RA needs to be scraped because the uniqueness of the Borg kinda is already dead..
The Borg need to be made very unique and with an ultra high threat level that occurs very very very radomly and rarely..If you look at ST their appearance through the timeline is what made them so unique, TNG they appeared in only 2 episodes not considering I borg and Decent..Then in Voyager also it was in scorpion, endgame and only a couple of other episodes..But in those episodes when they appeareed they were leathel on all fronts taking plenty of things with them..We need to see a cube like the series and movie where at Wolf 359, 40 ships are destroyed all too easily by the borg then in First contact again alot more ships over 13 ships with improved weaponary get destroyed..A game physic which is similar to how the cube in first contact was destroyed (Where all ships had to fire on only one area of the cube is required, but with the cube rotating and moving like they do in the series and movies) making them a TRIBBLE load tougher..

Currently we have everyone gunning the damn thing from all sides taking the sields down all but too easily and presto borg barbacue..

I want a borg that is super lethal (more superior weaponary, shields, structure and targetable ultra fast moving one shot torpedos which if you miss your dead), ultra unique (Adapts ultra quickly, regenerates ultra fast) and unforgiving..

This is just my opinion and want to know what you guys think?

tyler002 · March 2018

Yes

Making them more dangerous would be nice, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The TNG Borg are long dead and aren't coming back.

When Vaadwaur are considered superior to anything the Borg have and pretty much anyone can fight the Vaadwaur, STO just hurt the Borg worse than Voyager ever did.

jslyn · March 2018

Yes

I says yes.

I remember when it was iffy on whether or not your would even get to see the V'ger ship in the Red Alerts. I enjoyed the challenging fight. Just making an Advanced or Elite version of the Red Alert would make me happy.

ikonn · March 2018

Yes

The Borg will adapt... sometime!

fleetcaptain5 · March 2018

Yes

They need to be more threatening on the ground especially.

But they're on of the oldest enemies in the game. I doubt they'll get much attention unless there's also new Borg content coming - either episodes or a new Cooperative mini-faction.

humblesheep · March 2018

No

By all means, ask for an 'Elite' version of the Borg maps, but ISA is the one map you can rely on to drop quickly. Your suggestion would send it the same way as Fez and BHE, unpuggable maps left only for a tiny percentage of 'elite' players.

When I log on, I just want to fly around and blow stuff up, ISA is not my favorite map, but I play it a lot of because it drops. I'd like to play other maps, but if it comes to waiting 10, 15 or 20 minutes for a match to start, I'm not going to bother.

I get the feeling that Cryptic would like us to play more of the longer maps, with less rewards (per/time), but if they killed off ISA as a puggable map, they'd loose too many players and therefore money.

theraven2378 · March 2018

Yes

It's time to bring back the horror of Wolf 359, hell yeah to tougher Borg

markofthelexan · March 2018

No

While i like the idea of tougher borg. It would just put newer players off the game because they would get frustrated at the fact they can't play certain content simply because a new player doesn't have all the toys to help them survive like long term players.
Rather than scrap the borg alert, just make a new one which players can then choose between when they queue.

mcevergreen · March 2018

Yes

ixionveridian wrote: »

The Borg will adapt... sometime!

I am afraid to say, but I don't think so.

Recently, I was in a Borg RA. I saw one of my hangar pets shooting down a Borg cube without any problems. It was funny that the Borg cube left behind a tech upgrade. I was wondering. Don't Borg know how to use tech upgrades? I am mean, for sure, they could use some tech upgrades as it seems that their gear is not up to current standards.

Then, I went a bit further. I took one event ship. I took it as it came out of the box into the Borg RA. No consoles, no devices, just the basic common Mk X gear and weapons it came with. And, I was still not having any problem to complete the RA. I am curious as what the Borg might have. Mk II, Mk IV? One thing is for sure, it can't be that good. Everything dies, it is just a matter of time.

And, this is why, I fully agree. We need some challenge. The Borg aren't anymore a challenge.

I only here, entering the Borg RA:
Borg: "We are the... [static]."
Me: "Oh, I am so sorry. Did you have something to say?"

So, yes, indeed. As I proposed already at the German Captain Table. We need to have a higher difficulty level.

alexraptorr · March 2018

Yes

They need to nerf/revert the TR-116B quite frankly. Originally it only had 20% shield penetration, but that apparently wasn't good enough for a lot of crybabies, so it got overbuffed to 100% shield penetration. Cryptic needs to revert that decision as it completely screwed up the balance of all the ground Borg STF's.

fleetcaptain5 · March 2018

Yes

mcevergreen wrote: »

ixionveridian wrote: »

The Borg will adapt... sometime!

I am afraid to say, but I don't think so.

Recently, I was in a Borg RA. I saw one of my hangar pets shooting down a Borg cube without any problems. It was funny that the Borg cube left behind a tech upgrade. I was wondering. Don't Borg know how to use tech upgrades? I am mean, for sure, they could use some tech upgrades as it seems that their gear is not up to current standards.

They've been busy installing their Entertainment provisions

I haven't seen those being dropped from cubes for a while now so they were probably well integrated and completely lost when the ships exploded.

fleetcaptain5 · March 2018

Yes

alexraptorr wrote: »

They need to nerf/revert the TR-116B quite frankly. Originally it only had 20% shield penetration, but that apparently wasn't good enough for a lot of crybabies, so it got overbuffed to 100% shield penetration. Cryptic needs to revert that decision as it completely screwed up the balance of all the ground Borg STF's.

While I've been arguing for this almost since it was released, the TR is no longer a problem I think.

There are tons of other sources that deal shield ignoring damage. And the TR could almost never compete with a good combination of, for instance, multi-target expose and exploit weapons. It was an easy-to-use weapon for players who didn't want to put too much thought into their builds yet still be able to fight the borg effectively but while it may have been game-breaking in the week or so after Delta Rising, this is no longer the case if you ask me.

Its main problem was that it encouraged laziness in large parts of the player population. As the amount of options increased and builds that used more than just one weapon became more effective again, the use of the TR steadily decreased if my observations have been correct. It's been a while since I last saw the inside of Starbase 82, but I don't think the weapon is that popular anymore.

warpangel · March 2018

Yes

All they really need is for adaptation to work like it does in canon. Including in space.

salvation4 · March 2018

Yes

Please note I did mention in the comment of the poll the uniquness of the borg is requireed..Not make it hell for everyone like Kofez but a tiny bit lower..THE BORG NEED TO BE UNIQUE and considered a real threat where you need to be smart when fighting them because of their ability to adapt..No other spieces in our universe can adapt like the borg in star trek and thats another thing so unique about them..

Yeah we have a decent population out to one shot everything and if they cant, it has to be nerfed, is the cry..The art of establishing on how to tune your build is slowly dying because the weapons are becoming really funny to watch and enemies are becoming lower than god knows what its not funny..We have not got proper scaling of weapon to opponents, its been weapons scale up and opponents remain where they are or get a kick in the nuts and get scaled lower..I stopped playing any PvE on lower than advanced..And I agree the Vad's are ridiculously crazy but thats what the challenge is in Fez, with the current state of weapons that are available we need more fez type encounters to force us to evolve our tactics and builds..

I havent touched any sort of beam weapons except phasers and for projectiles nothing but Quantums, Photons (very rarely only at the rear) and the energy bolt from the Task Force Omega Rep (Very recently about 2 weeks back) and can park broadside in front of a cube and let the arcs rip and the wide angle fly off..In space the borg dont follow the arc rule cause their ships can rotate and fire practically 360 with a plasma torp launcher on all sides..Each side is identically armed and armored, denying enemy species the luxury of any directional weaknesses in defenses and blind spots in firing arcs. Each Borg vessel's weapons systems are located differently, which also denies enemy races the capability of immediately identifying and destroying firing ports.
As far as I have noticed in the RA's if you get the right side and park broad side all you'll have to deal with is the plasma beams and all is good, never seen a cube manuver to even use the plasma torps it has..Also the Plasma torps are god awful slow in the game for the borg..
If anyone one remebers when they adapted so quickly to the graviton beam when picard was just assimilated? Then the three ships from Jupiter station intercepting the cube get oneshoted with torps in best of both worlds 2?
Ground is overall embarassing cause as we all have seen through out the series and movie, after a shot or two they have adapted and you have to go melee mode on the borg, for me thats where the challenge in fighting the borg on ground lies..

peterconnorfirst · March 2018

Ok as is

We only need an elite setting that includes the missing maps and have the respective critter values already available from HSE and VCE for that. ISE KASE and CSE based upon it would be a huge success and quickly be a fan favorite.

As far as any sort of requested hocus-pocus concerning the Borg abilities is concerned I strongly disagree. Most maps that offer enemy types that have just that simply don’t get played. Borg STF get played cuz peeps like the Borg the way they are.

Changing them would be like stopping the production of vanilla ice-cream. It would only hurt business.

nikephorus · March 2018

Just add Elite versions I say.

angrytarg · March 2018

It would have been cool if Borg cubes were essentially Crystal Entity bosses (almost exact same mechanics). But STO missed that opportunity from the beginning, having the player blast cubes left and right in the (old) tutorial with their Miranda xD

sheldonlcooper · March 2018

No

In my personal style the borg are still the most difficult opponent due to their shield stripping. They are the only opponent that can kill me. This is because I rely on keeping shields up. I could deploy my full defense build that does keep the shields up even against the borg but it now makes more sense just to kill them instead.

As it is I prefer the other red alerts and don't wish to see the borg RA made more difficult. If they want to work on elite or epic borg missions that's fine.

tremere12 · March 2018

Yes

About time someone mentioned this.

ussvaliant · March 2018

I'd leave the Borg as they are for the existing Normal and Advanced difficulty PvE mainly due to them still being popular and not graveyards like so many other queues. Well space still pops ground not so much.

I'm def open to a revamped Elite queue being introduced or new Borg queues being added that do add to the menace and difficulty of the Borg.

orangenee · March 2018

Yes

tremere12 wrote: »

About time someone mentioned this.

People mention it all the time.

I obviously say yes but only for high end queues with some extra trickery and TEAMWORK REQUIRED rather than rock up and annihilate everything in 3 seconds because that one player has too much time on their hands.

lianthelia · March 2018

Yes

Would like to see things a little tougher in general to be honest, but considering cubes can be obliterated in just mere seconds by a even decently equipped ship...they could use a buff IMO.

asuran14 · March 2018

Yes

I would not say more lethal, but more challenging, and interesting to fight. The Borg have so much potential to be a really interesting, fun, and interactive enemy to fight. Most of all the idea of the assimilation, adaption concepts they could use to make a very interactive mechanic system for them, which could be quite simple to start with an get more complex the higher the difficulty. My own idea would be as detailed below.

Borg-weapon adaption: This would be the idea that as a Borg ship attacks a given target their weapons slowly gain a stacking buff that improves their ability to either damage, or bypass the shields of a target's specific shield type (this would affect all shield's of that type on any other target). How I would do this is make it a buff that stacks up as they hit a given shield type improving their damage against the shield-type, but then when they reach a given cap (maybe based on the shield type) would cause their weapons to bypass the shields (either fully or partially). Though this could be done on a more de-buff version instead, and so would be limited to what ship that is on, but any Borg ship would be able to capitalize on the de-buff.
Borg-shield adaption:This idea would be similar to the above buff style, but that instead it would work on the Borg's shields being hit by a given energy type. For me this would be that the Borg would gain a stacking buff reducing the damage taken from the energy type that has dealt the highest damage against that Borg ship, and those within a certain distance of the Borg ship. I would make it that they could only stack up at most the buff against one to three energy types (this could be based on difficulty rating).
Countering the mechanic: Now this is the fun part honestly as it is how we would interact with these buffs/de-buffs in a mechanic to balance them. How I would do this is that certain boff, and captain abilities when used can affect the buffs/debuffs of the Borg. Like some boff abilities might be able to reduce the number of stacks on a Borg ship or the player ship, or might even negate the buff/de-buff for a short period of time, while captain abilities would actually be able to remove the buff/debuff or even reverse the effect even.
Assimilation: This one is hard as outside of assimilating people, we never fully seen what they do, or the effect them assimilating a vessel is like. If we take the idea of how they take over a person when assimilating them, than I think it would be interesting to give them a form of boarding part ability. Having it that slowly they turn a player-ship into a enemy ship might be fun in higher difficulties.

baddmoonrizin · March 2018

Yes

@asuran14 I think if you're going to add Borg adaptation to space like that, then you'd need to add frequency remodulation to the Omega sets like you have for the ground sets, and perhaps add a frequency remodulation device, similar to the ground one, that can be equiped on ships, so that players can counter Borg adaptation.

vetteguy904 · March 2018

salvation4 wrote: »

Hear me out here..

The borg RA needs to be scraped because the uniqueness of the Borg kinda is already dead..
The Borg need to be made very unique and with an ultra high threat level that occurs very very very radomly and rarely..If you look at ST their appearance through the timeline is what made them so unique, TNG they appeared in only 2 episodes not considering I borg and Decent..Then in Voyager also it was in scorpion, endgame and only a couple of other episodes..But in those episodes when they appeareed they were leathel on all fronts taking plenty of things with them..We need to see a cube like the series and movie where at Wolf 359, 40 ships are destroyed all too easily by the borg then in First contact again alot more ships over 13 ships with improved weaponary get destroyed..A game physic which is similar to how the cube in first contact was destroyed (Where all ships had to fire on only one area of the cube is required, but with the cube rotating and moving like they do in the series and movies) making them a **** load tougher..

Currently we have everyone gunning the damn thing from all sides taking the sields down all but too easily and presto borg barbacue..

I want a borg that is super lethal (more superior weaponary, shields, structure and targetable ultra fast moving one shot torpedos which if you miss your dead), ultra unique (Adapts ultra quickly, regenerates ultra fast) and unforgiving..

This is just my opinion and want to know what you guys think?

the problem is that youa re thinking about red alerts and possibly STF. there is a whole arc that deals with the Borg, and an Uber Borg will kill any chance of the average player completeing the mission. if the borg routines can be seperated, then fine. one thing I find irksome is that the red alert borgs , the cubes are easy to kill. i often go for the paired cubes and solo them, yet the spheres in the groups of 5-8 rip me apart ratehr easily. perhaps the cubes could get some sort of scaling resist to the energy type it is in contact with, capping at say, 90%. or the same mechanic as the drones have, adapting. which could spawn a C-store consumable, the ship version of the refrequency device the ground supports have. in fract i would be ok with seeing THOSE go away and be replaced by consumables, with the Omega armor, needing them as charges, say a 10-1 ratio

vetteguy904 · March 2018

jslyn wrote: »

I says yes.

I remember when it was iffy on whether or not your would even get to see the V'ger ship in the Red Alerts. I enjoyed the challenging fight. Just making an Advanced or Elite version of the Red Alert would make me happy.

that would also be a good gauge on if you are ready for the STFs...

asuran14 · March 2018

Yes

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

@asuran14 I think if you're going to add Borg adaptation to space like that, then you'd need to add frequency remodulation to the Omega sets like you have for the ground sets, and perhaps add a frequency remodulation device, similar to the ground one, that can be equiped on ships, so that players can counter Borg adaptation.

That I think is abit lack luster in mechanic-wise, as it honestly does not add much, but I agree you would need a method of dealing with the adaption. hence why I suggested that some of the boff/captain abilities would interact with the outlined Borg shield or weapon buffs/debuffs. Things like tactical team or directed energy modulation might reduce the stacks of the weapon buff, the science team or reverse shield polarity ability could be used to reduce the shield-debuff, while different abilities over the different careers might affect the adaption effects at different strengths or ways. We have so many boff abilities that using them to combat mechanics might be a good way of making some of them more appealing to use, or switch out at times, as well add more flavor to other enemies by using a similar method.

rattler2 · March 2018

Ok as is

Just remake the Elite versions honestly. By this point in time the Borg aren't the big evil they used to be. Everyone's learning how to fight them effectively. Hell... The Borg Cube that reached Earth in First Contact didn't take out as many Federation ships as the one at Wolf 359 did. Evolving tactics and technologies have contributed to the downfall of the Borg. And lets not forget everything Voyager brought back from the Delta Quadrant.

asuran14 wrote: »

Borg adaption, assimilation changes
Borg-weapon adaption: This would be the idea that as a Borg ship attacks a given target their weapons slowly gain a stacking buff that improves their ability to either damage, or bypass the shields of a target's specific shield type (this would affect all shield's of that type on any other target). How I would do this is make it a buff that stacks up as they hit a given shield type improving their damage against the shield-type, but then when they reach a given cap (maybe based on the shield type) would cause their weapons to bypass the shields (either fully or partially). Though this could be done on a more de-buff version instead, and so would be limited to what ship that is on, but any Borg ship would be able to capitalize on the de-buff.

Borg-shield adaption:This idea would be similar to the above buff style, but that instead it would work on the Borg's shields being hit by a given energy type. For me this would be that the Borg would gain a stacking buff reducing the damage taken from the energy type that has dealt the highest damage against that Borg ship, and those within a certain distance of the Borg ship. I would make it that they could only stack up at most the buff against one to three energy types (this could be based on difficulty rating).

Countering the mechanic: Now this is the fun part honestly as it is how we would interact with these buffs/de-buffs in a mechanic to balance them. How I would do this is that certain boff, and captain abilities when used can affect the buffs/debuffs of the Borg. Like some boff abilities might be able to reduce the number of stacks on a Borg ship or the player ship, or might even negate the buff/de-buff for a short period of time, while captain abilities would actually be able to remove the buff/debuff or even reverse the effect even.

Assimilation: This one is hard as outside of assimilating people, we never fully seen what they do, or the effect them assimilating a vessel is like. If we take the idea of how they take over a person when assimilating them, than I think it would be interesting to give them a form of boarding part ability. Having it that slowly they turn a player-ship into a enemy ship might be fun in higher difficulties.

We don't really see the Borg adapt their space weapons in the show. They were just devastating to begin with.
Shield adaptation on top of shield ripping is kinda redundant. I'm regularly having to hull tank anyways. Maybe if they buffed the shield drain on the Borg Tractor Beam to emulate them adaping to the modifications the Enterprise-D did to prevent a lock for a while.
Would require a major revamp to abilities.
They already have a unique Boarding Party mechanic. While other enemy groups, and even players, have to deploy shuttles that must travel, Borg just beam right aboard and smack you with the "Assimilate Ship" debuff, which functions exactly like a Boarding Party. Fraks with your cooldowns. They seem to like to whammy me with that all the time. Always having to use Tac Team to clear it.

asuran14 · March 2018

Yes

rattler2 wrote: »

We don't really see the Borg adapt their space weapons in the show. They were just devastating to begin with.

Shield adaptation on top of shield ripping is kinda redundant. I'm regularly having to hull tank anyways. Maybe if they buffed the shield drain on the Borg Tractor Beam to emulate them adaping to the modifications the Enterprise-D did to prevent a lock for a while.

Would require a major revamp to abilities.

They already have a unique Boarding Party mechanic. While other enemy groups, and even players, have to deploy shuttles that must travel, Borg just beam right aboard and smack you with the "Assimilate Ship" debuff, which functions exactly like a Boarding Party. Fraks with your cooldowns. They seem to like to whammy me with that all the time. Always having to use Tac Team to clear it.

Well the Borg in sto are not exactly the same as the Borg in the series, for one they do not really use the same weapon types. I actually do believe that we hear the crews talking about how the Borg are adapting to the shield frequencies, which is why they began to modulate the frequency of the shields to combat that fact. This fact could be just part of why their weapons were so devastating.
Well I would think a rework of the Borg to use a new mechanic would remove things like the outrageous ship stripping they have, for something a bit more manageable. Also with the fact their shields would adapt (gain resistance, or a damage reduction buff) to the highest damage energy type hitting them, than their own hull/shield points could be adjusted to fit that fact.
Don't think it would take a full revamp of the abilities, though would need quite abit of coding to link specific boff-abilities into the mechanic, but that is kinda what you might expect with a revamp or rework.

innuwarrior · March 2018

Yes

Borg used to be tough, you needed good teamwork and a sound strategy to kill them. Now they're barely a threat, craptic has neutered them so much it isn't even funny. With my cannon built I can trash a cube in RA with my weapons first volley, where is the fun in that.

At least bring back a real elite setting so we can have a real challenge.

Borg revamp to be made more leathal?

Borg revamp to be made more leathal? 76 votes

Comments