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Merge of the factions?

Apparently cross-faction teaming is terribly difficult to code. Yet it seems to a popular request.

Now, a radical thought: What if the factions were just removed from the game? That is, they would no longer work as such, but only be used to determine to which missions your character has access to (so, in a way, we'd all be like TOS-characters). Everybody would be able to beam in on New Romulus Command, Qo'onos, Earth Space dock, even Starbase Sierra 39 or Ganalda. And we'd all have access to all ships from all factions, however to unlock the right skin for our faction, we'd of course have to buy that skin...

Sure, it might be a bit awkward in some situations (like a level 1 character who beams up to ESD to be assigned to the Klingon Front, only to run into a bunch of Klingons...), and a few select things would have to be adjusted [I can think of Ker'rat, which would have to use a random "on-map faction" assignment as the N'Vak map does (which is the same map as Ker'rat, but only open for KDF and KDF-allied captains) - or they'd just leave Ker'rat for the non-PvPers and direct all PvPers to N'Vak...]. Only story missions and doffing would remain to be "faction" specific.

But all things considered... wouldn't that repair a lot more things than it could possibly break?




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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    Could you please reference which parts of the code make it "even HARDER" to code?

    Can you reference which parts of code would make this easier? Proposing a work around requires that you know what you're working around. And quite frankly you don't, you can only suppose that merging all factions post hoc would somehow be more feasible.

    That's highly dubious (see. stated technical difficulties in merely changing species) so you may want to focus on the immediate benefits of your suggestion, provide a counterargument to CBS's inevitable objections to FED ships being commissioned by full Klingon crews (and any permutation there of), and hang any idea that you're proposing a compromise to a tech problem (to those who already have a much greater depth of knowledge about said problem.) There's a lot of complication here, just in the logic of the idea and the attendant consequences (ex. cross faction traits and console packs now allowing anyone to pick up traits for c-store and lock box/lobi ships), and as it standsonly enabling cross faction teaming isn't sufficient justification. It's a relatively small problem.
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    (troll/insult/flame post remove) - darkbladejk

    Hell, I can do that from an arm-chair POV. Coding ain't that easy. You can change whatever the hell you want to but with a set chain of dependencies the further back you start fiddling the greater the probability that you'll break the system (I'm coming from an Evo-Devo perspective on this but the point is well founded in gaming too.)

    Apply some simple logic: if changing faction was easy then so too should be any character setting. Ex. species and gender. As those have been ruled out on technical grounds, and are considerably smaller scale (less depends on them), why do you think that changing faction would be easier?

    You can imagine it's just one field, but you can also imagine that the servers are run by actual hamsters. You need more to found a suggestion of this magnitude (ie. fundamentally re-writing STO from design and technical point of view, just so we can team outside of a PVE with other factions...)

    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,687 Community Moderator
    edited February 2018
    [Mod Hat] Response to moderated post removed. -- StarSword-C [/Mod Hat]

    Second... STO was built on having a Red vs Blue system. Two factions. They were able to squeeze in the Romulans yes, but after they reach a certain point the Green side must side with either Red or Blue to maintain the RvB dynamic. While it is true we can cross faction team in STFs, they were DESIGNED to allow that. The only way to actually guarantee who you cross faction team with is to do a private queue.

    The RvB setup is a fundimental CORE GAME MECHANIC. The game was literally built around having two opposing factions. While STORY wise we've moved on from the conflict between Red and Blue, we cannot change the core game mechanic to allow for easier out of queue cross faction teaming.

    This is why most players have one character who is their main in their preferred faction, and at least one alt on the other side.

    The only way we can have cross faction teaming is if STO was built from the get go with that in mind. Or if there was no RvB setup like Neverwinter. Just adventurers in general. No MMO that I know of that started with a RvB faction system has ever broken that. Even the King of MMOs, World of WarCraft, still has the RvB setup. You're basically suggesting they take the game, and recode the ENTIRE GAME. Would be cheeper to just make a new one at this point. Not only that... with all the years and layers of coding... one change could have an impact in some unrelated area. Used to be that when Cryptic fixed something, the STF Borg would break. Instakill Invisitorps one week, Spheres with Super EPtE the next, and epic shield drain later on down the road.

    STO's code, especially the older code, is spegetti, and its entirely possible that some older elements are unworkable because the Dev that had worked on that no longer works there and there are no notes. Probably one of the reasons we haven't gotten any new ground kill trophies in some time.

    In short: It can't be done as it is a CORE game mechanic that would probably break the entire game if messed with.
    Post edited by starswordc on
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  • killer1986chriskiller1986chris Member Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    Could you please reference which parts of the code make it "even HARDER" to code?

    Hate to say it, Sophlogimo, but Somtaawkhar's right. the sheer amount of data transfer to get everybody's characters over to Fed

    Hm. My reasoning is more like this: The faction is represented in the database by a bytecode, a word or something like it. Both characters, locations, ships and the like will have that entry, and if character's and (say) location's faction code match, the two can go together.

    Now, all you need to do is change the byte code for everybody and everything to a new, common value that stands for the new "all-factions" faction. That's an one-line SQL statement or the equivalent of that in Cryptic's proprietary database.

    As mentioned above, a few additional adjustments would be required, plus testing, etc.

    But actual coding should actually be pretty manageable.

    Now, as we have a dev in disguise paying attention to this thread, maybe he can shed light on why that wouldn't work.

    (unnecessary response to troll/insult/flame removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
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  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
    yep feds and kdf should merge and give the red faction to a real enemy ..
  • nxenterprise02nxenterprise02 Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    Please no. Why are some players (I suspect mostly Fed, although I could be wrong as you have a Romulan as your profile photo) so intent on removing the factions? Leave us Romulan and Klingon fans alone. If you want what little remains unique to these factions, roll a Romulan or a KDF character.
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  • nxenterprise02nxenterprise02 Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Please no. Why are some players (I suspect mostly Fed, although I could be wrong as you have a Romulan as your profile photo) so intent on removing the factions? Leave us Romulan and Klingon fans alone. If you want what little remains unique to these factions, roll a Romulan or a KDF character.

    The thing is, would we notice if this was done in the described way? We'd still have our unique storylines (just as the TOSers have), but we could visit more places and use more ships. Those who do want to be limited could still limit themselves rather easily by not going there, not taking that ship, etc.

    Call me selfish, but I really don't want to see a Fed player in Scimitar or BoP. :/
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,513 Arc User
    So, despite it being in the public domain that the Dev's asked one the most senior members about the merging the factions, who bluntly said 'no', and that it can't be done because the work required is too great and too complex that it would require a complete recoding of the game.....why should a Dev come to the forum and give a complete technical description explaining why it can't be done to someone who understands little about coding!?

    And should this be an FCT by now!?
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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