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In the latest P1 podcast,,,

... Borticus said that the best place to offer feedback was the forums. These forums.

That's good to know, of course. But I'd like to offer the feedback that people like to know if they are being read or heard (not necessarily agreed with, of course), and the best way to signal that is to reply. However, my personal impression (am I alone with that?) is that people are a lot more likely to get a dev reply on reddit than here.

So, to the devs: If you want more feedback in certain channels, offer feedback to that feedback mostly there. That should make it a lot easier for everybody to sort out where to give feedback.
Remember, STO is nothing but a cosmetics game, where only the rule of cool matters. The game mechanics are intentionally out of balance, don't try to "optimize" anything, as it would just frustrate you.
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Comments

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    I hate to say it but I kinda agree. Sometimes it feels like they reveal stuff about server status and stuff on Reddit more than they do here.

    Every once in a while its great to see a Dev respond to us on the forums. Hell... engaging the community is a great way to get a feel for how things are going too. The recent story blog written by our Community Manager was very well done, and some of us kinda got into Klingon mode and vowed to hunt down the targ who wanted to sell the Sarcophagus.

    THAT, IMO, is how to tell if its well written. It evokes responses that would fit into the universe.

    I understand the Devs have a lot on their plate, especially with work on the new expansion, but it would be nice for us forumites to be kept in the loop just as much as the Redditers.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    Have to agree re; Reddit. How many times over the years has the first the Forums heard of something been another member linking to a Dev post on Reddit? How many times had nothing ever appeared on the Forums about a situation despite constant Reddit or Twitter updates?

    'Actions speak louder than words' and the actions are saying that, despite these being the official STO forums, we the members aren't worth the time it would take to type up a quick "Hey, guys, server's down - either someone forgot to feed the Tribble again or the new update missed something. We'll try to have it back up quick but it might be a couple hours. Sorry all. Since it's during an event, we'll try and extend it a day or two to make up for this." without there having to be a dozen topics complaining and questioning the downtime.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    I fully agree.
    Over the years there have been many, many occasions where info is posted to Reddit or Facebook well before it ever gets a mention (if at all) on the official forums.
    Then you have people claiming the forums are toxic and all that bs but if people using the forums feel they are ignored due to lack of feedback or info is it any wonder there are going to be occasions of anger of resentment?

    I've seen plenty of poorly worded and bitchy posts and replies on Reddit/Facebook/Twitter so to make out that it's a better class of place to post info in these location over the forums is pure folly.

    Post feedback to your own official channels as a priority and you will show to players you are interested in their time and opinions. Value your players, they will value you.
    SulMatuul.png
  • arionisaarionisa Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    I've only been around for three years, and I don't follow every single forum, however I do follow the "important" ones, you know, bugs, etc, and seeing a Dev actually post something in any of them is extremely rare. It does seem to have gotten a little better recently but still, the Official STO Forums should be where we get information, not eventually receiving it second or third hand from someone who saw something on twitter/reddit. Surely if a Dev has time to post on twitter or Reddit they have time to post here in the Official Forums.
    LTS and loving it.
    Ariotex.png
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    I honestly don't see why it's important for a dev to reply to a post. When I'm presenting feedback, I'm trying to communicate information to the devs. So long as they acknowledge that information is being read (they've said that explicitly, time and again) then it really doesn't matter that I received personalized attention (a la a customer service counter) because ultimately what I'm not doing is approaching Cryptic with a list of demands which I expect rectified to remain a happy customer. I'm making suggestions. They can reply if they'd like but the entire process from suggestion to implementation (provided the idea is sound and actionable) can operate without them doing so.

    It's a nicety, not a necessity.
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Then you have people claiming the forums are toxic and all that bs but if people using the forums feel they are ignored due to lack of feedback or info is it any wonder there are going to be occasions of anger of resentment?
    Isn't it on those user, though, to deal with their frustrations at not receiving the desired level of attention? Why should acting out be rewarded over more constructive behavior? That energy can be better invested elsewhere, without requiring any time investment on Cryptic's part, such as trying out other avenues of communication which better host immediate interactions with the devs. Ex. Ten Forward Weekly.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    > @duncanidaho11 said:
    > I honestly don't see why it's important for a dev to reply to a post. When I'm presenting feedback, I'm trying to communicate information to the devs. So long as they acknowledge that information is being read (they've said that explicitly, time and again) then it really doesn't matter that I received personalized attention (a la a customer service counter) because ultimately what I'm not doing is approaching Cryptic with a list of demands which I expect rectified to remain a happy customer. I'm making suggestions. They can reply if they'd like but the entire process from suggestion to implementation (provided the idea is sound and actionable) can operate without them doing so.
    >
    > It's a nicety, not a necessity.
    > lordsteve1 wrote: »
    >
    > Then you have people claiming the forums are toxic and all that bs but if people using the forums feel they are ignored due to lack of feedback or info is it any wonder there are going to be occasions of anger of resentment?
    >
    >
    >
    > Isn't it on those user, though, to deal with their frustrations at not receiving the desired level of attention? Why should acting out be rewarded over more constructive behavior? That energy can be better invested elsewhere, without requiring any time investment on Cryptic's part, such as trying out other avenues of communication which better host immediate interactions with the devs. Ex. Ten Forward Weekly.
    ————————————————
    Thing is though there are gonna be bad apples in all the different places they could post messages. I’ve seen plenty of idiotic and poorly worded or ranting messages on Reddit or on the twitter feeds over the years so there is not one single place that is free of that sort of thing.
    And as the developers they are just gonna have to man up and accept not everyone on the internet is nice about what they do.
    If things get carried away they have moderators to step in and ban, remove, edit posts or users.

    There should be no excuse for avoiding posting in your own official forums in favour of third party channels and that is what people get annoyed at.
    If I post a thread here I dont expect a dev response every time. But if something like the maintenance being extended or some game breaking bug being discovered is going to be communicated to the players it should be via the official channels as a priority. Heck, the game launcher links to the forums for cryin out loud. If the server is down then players should find info here through that link, not need to go search Reddit or twitter.
    SulMatuul.png
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    At least Cryptic are a lot more communicative than Bioware are with TOR. They make an effort to talk to us lot.

    Bioware just generally announce something (usually imbalance changes, imbalance used very deliberately) and then turtle up until the next one.

    I will say Cryptic need to play their own game a little more, critH and critD being the most powerful mods? No, bad Cryptic.

    Of course most official MMO forums are gripe fests, the difference between this place and reddit are night and day. Anything negative gets pounded by downvotes on Reddit yet anything positive on here gets pounded. There's obviously variables on each side but it's the general theme.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    Bioware just generally announce something (usually imbalance changes, imbalance used very deliberately) and then turtle up until the next one.

    Its also possible that that's a symptom of being hampered or prodded by the corporate greed of their EA Overlords.
    In terms of Story, I believe Bioware is actually QUITE good with that. Just look at their successful titles. All are rich with story. Its only when they start to get hamstrung by greedy overlords like EA that we end up with garbage like ME: Andromeda and the fiasco that was ME3's ending. Push the product out as quickly as possible because the Overlords at EA demand it yesterday to make maximum money off the fanbase because they'll buy anything, and to hell with the fans who actually care about a franchise because the only language they understand is money, and if said franchise can't be exploited, it gets shelved like when they sabotaged Command and Conquer.

    [/soapbox]

    Anyways... moving on now.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • tylermaxwelltylermaxwell Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    I kinda wonder if part of the problem is layout and poor organization of the forums. With Reddit, you only have the one feed to look at, and it's easy to see at a glance what threads folks are really interested in (not necessarily posting themselves, but reading), 'cuz those tend to float to the top. Simple! On the Forums, however, everything is separated into so many subforums, and sorted only by last posts, so it's hard to distinguish between the threads that much of the community are actually interested in, and the ones that are a few dozen posts of just 3-4 people flaming and s**tposting back and forth at each other. Combined with the wonky performance of the Vanilla platform itself (I swear that thing is a memory hog), it is a much more obnoxious and time-consuming experience to wade through a lot of the trash posts and threads. Before the last forum conversion, I used to be able to have a good handle of what was going on in the subforums just by having 2 or 3 tabs in my browser. Since Vanilla though, I have to have several more tabs just to keep a fraction of that level of awareness. It's just not worth the effort anymore, Reddit and the other platforms are much easier for most of the feedback reading. Maybe it's fixable, but I think it's a fundamental structural problem of the way forums have historically been set up.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I tend not to pay much heed to the FB/Reddit pages. Too much silly ranting and opinionated nonsense.

    Plus there are too many people who just can't resist the urge to turn any Trek-related thread into their personal soapbox on which to broadcast their opinion on ST: Discovery.
    Seriously - on another Trek related page I even saw a 'Happy Birthday *enter actor/actress name*' with the first comment beneath being some opinionated nonsense pertaining to ST: Discovery.

    Anyway, back on topic - I agree with others; reasons notwithstanding, these forums don't seem to be the first stop for updates.

    Good post! I agree to 100%.
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  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    > @reyan01 said:
    > I tend not to pay much heed to the FB/Reddit pages. Too much silly ranting and opinionated nonsense.
    >
    > Plus there are too many people who just can't resist the urge to turn any Trek-related thread into their personal soapbox on which to broadcast their opinion on ST: Discovery.
    > Seriously - on another Trek related page I even saw a 'Happy Birthday *enter actor/actress name*' with the first comment beneath being some opinionated nonsense pertaining to ST: Discovery.
    >
    > Anyway, back on topic - I agree with others; reasons notwithstanding, these forums don't seem to be the first stop for updates.

    Discovery is so terrible! What's this thread about again?
    Tza0PEl.png
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Bioware just generally announce something (usually imbalance changes, imbalance used very deliberately) and then turtle up until the next one.

    Its also possible that that's a symptom of being hampered or prodded by the corporate greed of their EA Overlords.
    In terms of Story, I believe Bioware is actually QUITE good with that. Just look at their successful titles. All are rich with story. Its only when they start to get hamstrung by greedy overlords like EA that we end up with garbage like ME: Andromeda and the fiasco that was ME3's ending. Push the product out as quickly as possible because the Overlords at EA demand it yesterday to make maximum money off the fanbase because they'll buy anything, and to hell with the fans who actually care about a franchise because the only language they understand is money, and if said franchise can't be exploited, it gets shelved like when they sabotaged Command and Conquer.
    They had time to do 3 endings for ME3 and not one of them was good. That's not a problem with "greedy overlords," but the writer(s).
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    lordsteve1 wrote: »

    There should be no excuse for avoiding posting in your own official forums in favour of third party channels and that is what people get annoyed at.
    If I post a thread here I dont expect a dev response every time. But if something like the maintenance being extended or some game breaking bug being discovered is going to be communicated to the players it should be via the official channels as a priority. Heck, the game launcher links to the forums for cryin out loud. If the server is down then players should find info here through that link, not need to go search Reddit or twitter.

    That's a separate issue though. Ie. automated posting of status notifications as separate forum posts [downtime threads tend to get updated IIRC] versus devs entering into feedback-driven discussion themselves.

    And for those status notifications, they're typically only relevant for a few hours. Is a solo post on a semi-permanent message board (specifically in general discussion) really going to help anyone, or could you instead just take a look at the launcher (a common point of contact for all people trying to get online, including folks browsing the forum) or running downtime discussion in the galactic news network section?
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »

    There should be no excuse for avoiding posting in your own official forums in favour of third party channels and that is what people get annoyed at.
    If I post a thread here I dont expect a dev response every time. But if something like the maintenance being extended or some game breaking bug being discovered is going to be communicated to the players it should be via the official channels as a priority. Heck, the game launcher links to the forums for cryin out loud. If the server is down then players should find info here through that link, not need to go search Reddit or twitter.

    That's a separate issue though. Ie. automated posting of status notifications as separate forum posts [downtime threads tend to get updated IIRC] versus devs entering into feedback-driven discussion themselves.

    And for those status notifications, they're typically only relevant for a few hours. Is a solo post on a semi-permanent message board (specifically in general discussion) really going to help anyone, or could you instead just take a look at the launcher (a common point of contact for all people trying to get online, including folks browsing the forum) or running downtime discussion in the galactic news network section?

    Well yes, if you have an official forum and a moderation and community team it is the ideal place to post updates about ongoing issues and events. You can have a specific section for this sort of thing, or pin them to the top of a section and update/remove them as required.
    Plenty of other games manage this and so do a multitude of other websites relating to other services provided by companies.
    There's zero sense in having an official feedback platform for your product but yet posting to 3rd party formats any time you try to communicate to your customers.
    SulMatuul.png
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    warpangel wrote: »
    They had time to do 3 endings for ME3 and not one of them was good. That's not a problem with "greedy overlords," but the writer(s).

    The main issue people had with ME3 was that all the decisions made in the previous two games were rendered pointless. And they originally only had two to choose from. They free DLC'd the third in. And I'm pretty sure its not lazy writing that did it. It was a stupid release schedule. Same thing that hampered Knights of the Old Republic 2.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    They had time to do 3 endings for ME3 and not one of them was good. That's not a problem with "greedy overlords," but the writer(s).

    The main issue people had with ME3 was that all the decisions made in the previous two games were rendered pointless. And they originally only had two to choose from. They free DLC'd the third in. And I'm pretty sure its not lazy writing that did it. It was a stupid release schedule. Same thing that hampered Knights of the Old Republic 2.
    I didn't say "lazy." They just made three more or less bad endings and not a single good one. You know, one where the Good Guys win, the Bad Guys lose and everyone lives happily ever after until the next sequel.

    That has nothing to do with any release schedule.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,238 Community Moderator
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Can you guys put your elsegame-related discussion to 10 forward? Remember, this thread is about giving feedback to the devs about what their stated "best feedback channel" is vs the one perceived by the players.

    What he said. ;)
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I tend not to pay much heed to the FB/Reddit pages. Too much silly ranting and opinionated nonsense.

    Plus there are too many people who just can't resist the urge to turn any Trek-related thread into their personal soapbox on which to broadcast their opinion on ST: Discovery.
    Seriously - on another Trek related page I even saw a 'Happy Birthday *enter actor/actress name*' with the first comment beneath being some opinionated nonsense pertaining to ST: Discovery.

    Anyway, back on topic - I agree with others; reasons notwithstanding, these forums don't seem to be the first stop for updates.

    Good post! I agree to 100%.
    Yeah I have to agree as well, people need have a right to dislike Discovery but for some people it doesn't seem to be enough that they dislike Discovery, everyone has to dislike it and must express it at every opportunity they get. It gets old really fast for those of us that don't have that level of fanatism.
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    I don't like Discovery and I absolutely despise Dr. Who. There you go, that's all that needs to be said about that subject for me.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    > @duncanidaho11 said:
    > I honestly don't see why it's important for a dev to reply to a post. When I'm presenting feedback, I'm trying to communicate information to the devs. So long as they acknowledge that information is being read (they've said that explicitly, time and again) then it really doesn't matter that I received personalized attention (a la a customer service counter) because ultimately what I'm not doing is approaching Cryptic with a list of demands which I expect rectified to remain a happy customer. I'm making suggestions. They can reply if they'd like but the entire process from suggestion to implementation (provided the idea is sound and actionable) can operate without them doing so.
    >
    > It's a nicety, not a necessity.
    > lordsteve1 wrote: »
    >
    > Then you have people claiming the forums are toxic and all that bs but if people using the forums feel they are ignored due to lack of feedback or info is it any wonder there are going to be occasions of anger of resentment?
    >
    >
    >
    > Isn't it on those user, though, to deal with their frustrations at not receiving the desired level of attention? Why should acting out be rewarded over more constructive behavior? That energy can be better invested elsewhere, without requiring any time investment on Cryptic's part, such as trying out other avenues of communication which better host immediate interactions with the devs. Ex. Ten Forward Weekly.
    ————————————————
    Thing is though there are gonna be bad apples in all the different places they could post messages. I’ve seen plenty of idiotic and poorly worded or ranting messages on Reddit or on the twitter feeds over the years so there is not one single place that is free of that sort of thing.
    And as the developers they are just gonna have to man up and accept not everyone on the internet is nice about what they do.
    If things get carried away they have moderators to step in and ban, remove, edit posts or users.

    There should be no excuse for avoiding posting in your own official forums in favour of third party channels and that is what people get annoyed at.
    If I post a thread here I dont expect a dev response every time. But if something like the maintenance being extended or some game breaking bug being discovered is going to be communicated to the players it should be via the official channels as a priority. Heck, the game launcher links to the forums for cryin out loud. If the server is down then players should find info here through that link, not need to go search Reddit or twitter.
    ^^^^^ This...

    The fact is, the forum is toxic, or to be more accurate, there are a few particular posters who continually argue, drag people into their arguments, and generally bring the mood down for everyone. That said, the tone of the forum has improved massively over the past 14-20 days. It is noticeable. That is progress, and that is good :sunglasses:

    That impacts the devs, because they aren't going to want to interact with a playerbase (many of who, are effectively paying their salaries) where they have to be constantly on the defensive and taken to task over their work. I can understand why there is such a small dev presence here.

    But third party sites are, IMHO, not acceptable places to put out news pertinent to the entire player-base, because a player may not even use said-site.

    Now that's not to say that devs shouldn't post on Reddit/fb/twitter etc, of course they can, but game's official forum should be the first place any information is either released by Cryptic/the devs, or sought from the players. By all means copy/paste the information over to Reddit/fb/twitter afterwards, but put it here first and make the forum, the first port of call with regards information :sunglasses:

    If people think to go to unofficial sources first, then the official source has lost its way, and needs to be made relevant again :sunglasses:
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    > @duncanidaho11 said:
    > I honestly don't see why it's important for a dev to reply to a post. When I'm presenting feedback, I'm trying to communicate information to the devs. So long as they acknowledge that information is being read (they've said that explicitly, time and again) then it really doesn't matter that I received personalized attention (a la a customer service counter) because ultimately what I'm not doing is approaching Cryptic with a list of demands which I expect rectified to remain a happy customer. I'm making suggestions. They can reply if they'd like but the entire process from suggestion to implementation (provided the idea is sound and actionable) can operate without them doing so.
    >
    > It's a nicety, not a necessity.
    > lordsteve1 wrote: »
    >
    > Then you have people claiming the forums are toxic and all that bs but if people using the forums feel they are ignored due to lack of feedback or info is it any wonder there are going to be occasions of anger of resentment?
    >
    >
    >
    > Isn't it on those user, though, to deal with their frustrations at not receiving the desired level of attention? Why should acting out be rewarded over more constructive behavior? That energy can be better invested elsewhere, without requiring any time investment on Cryptic's part, such as trying out other avenues of communication which better host immediate interactions with the devs. Ex. Ten Forward Weekly.
    ————————————————
    Thing is though there are gonna be bad apples in all the different places they could post messages. I’ve seen plenty of idiotic and poorly worded or ranting messages on Reddit or on the twitter feeds over the years so there is not one single place that is free of that sort of thing.
    And as the developers they are just gonna have to man up and accept not everyone on the internet is nice about what they do.
    If things get carried away they have moderators to step in and ban, remove, edit posts or users.

    There should be no excuse for avoiding posting in your own official forums in favour of third party channels and that is what people get annoyed at.
    If I post a thread here I dont expect a dev response every time. But if something like the maintenance being extended or some game breaking bug being discovered is going to be communicated to the players it should be via the official channels as a priority. Heck, the game launcher links to the forums for cryin out loud. If the server is down then players should find info here through that link, not need to go search Reddit or twitter.
    ^^^^^ This...

    The fact is, the forum is toxic, or to be more accurate, there are a few particular posters who continually argue, drag people into their arguments, and generally bring the mood down for everyone. That said, the tone of the forum has improved massively over the past 14-20 days. It is noticeable. That is progress, and that is good :sunglasses:

    That impacts the devs, because they aren't going to want to interact with a playerbase (many of who, are effectively paying their salaries) where they have to be constantly on the defensive and taken to task over their work. I can understand why there is such a small dev presence here.

    But third party sites are, IMHO, not acceptable places to put out news pertinent to the entire player-base, because a player may not even use said-site.
    No site is used by every player.

    They will never reach everyone. Even if they copied every post autoamtically in the launcher and it would be displayed to the players, not everyone would actually read them.

    It is extremely unlikely that you will actually miss something important if you try to stay informed on the game, because there are people that use different news sources, and will mention what they read elsewhere here.

    Trying to force the devs to reply only in your preferred channel based on some form of guilting or shaming just means that you will simply get less replies overall from them. (Or, well, you might just be ignored.)

    The only thing the developers owe us is delivering the game. And the only really meaningful reply to your feedback is what actually makes it in the game. People asked for something like reeingineering and salvaging for your years. It didn't happen, until it did. So the dev response is "we think it's a good enough idea to implement and bring into the game, but it took this long to get to it." And any other dev response you would have gotten before would have been "good idea, maybe some time."

    If you want to know the whys, hows or whens, you can try to hope they provide some replies somewhere publically, but you're not owed anything.

    The stuff posted by Cryptic employees online is either their own personal decision to do, not obligated by anything, or part of marketing. And it can be part of marketing to put stuff out there and make it rewarding for people to look for it and collect the information and present them at other places, as well.
    But the most important part might be: The goal of marketing is to get people to play the game. People busy on the STO forums are likely already playing. People on reddit or twitter may not.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • ambassadorkael#6946 ambassadorkael Member, Administrator Posts: 2,673 Community Manager
    This is something I can speak to.

    To be completely and utterly honest - Reddit is easier to parse. There's less threads, and the ones that are the most popular head straight to the top. It makes a lot of the developers more keen to head there to see what they're being called out on.

    Myself, QA, and a lot of the developers do read these forums, though, and a lot of our bug reports and feedback come through here.

    I'm working on ways of trying to make the forums a little easier to navigate, both for our sake and yours. There's a thread about one of my ideas up in GNN right now.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    > @duncanidaho11 said:
    > I honestly don't see why it's important for a dev to reply to a post. When I'm presenting feedback, I'm trying to communicate information to the devs. So long as they acknowledge that information is being read (they've said that explicitly, time and again) then it really doesn't matter that I received personalized attention (a la a customer service counter) because ultimately what I'm not doing is approaching Cryptic with a list of demands which I expect rectified to remain a happy customer. I'm making suggestions. They can reply if they'd like but the entire process from suggestion to implementation (provided the idea is sound and actionable) can operate without them doing so.
    >
    > It's a nicety, not a necessity.
    > lordsteve1 wrote: »
    >
    > Then you have people claiming the forums are toxic and all that bs but if people using the forums feel they are ignored due to lack of feedback or info is it any wonder there are going to be occasions of anger of resentment?
    >
    >
    >
    > Isn't it on those user, though, to deal with their frustrations at not receiving the desired level of attention? Why should acting out be rewarded over more constructive behavior? That energy can be better invested elsewhere, without requiring any time investment on Cryptic's part, such as trying out other avenues of communication which better host immediate interactions with the devs. Ex. Ten Forward Weekly.
    ————————————————
    Thing is though there are gonna be bad apples in all the different places they could post messages. I’ve seen plenty of idiotic and poorly worded or ranting messages on Reddit or on the twitter feeds over the years so there is not one single place that is free of that sort of thing.
    And as the developers they are just gonna have to man up and accept not everyone on the internet is nice about what they do.
    If things get carried away they have moderators to step in and ban, remove, edit posts or users.

    There should be no excuse for avoiding posting in your own official forums in favour of third party channels and that is what people get annoyed at.
    If I post a thread here I dont expect a dev response every time. But if something like the maintenance being extended or some game breaking bug being discovered is going to be communicated to the players it should be via the official channels as a priority. Heck, the game launcher links to the forums for cryin out loud. If the server is down then players should find info here through that link, not need to go search Reddit or twitter.
    ^^^^^ This...

    The fact is, the forum is toxic, or to be more accurate, there are a few particular posters who continually argue, drag people into their arguments, and generally bring the mood down for everyone. That said, the tone of the forum has improved massively over the past 14-20 days. It is noticeable. That is progress, and that is good :sunglasses:

    That impacts the devs, because they aren't going to want to interact with a playerbase (many of who, are effectively paying their salaries) where they have to be constantly on the defensive and taken to task over their work. I can understand why there is such a small dev presence here.

    But third party sites are, IMHO, not acceptable places to put out news pertinent to the entire player-base, because a player may not even use said-site.
    No site is used by every player.

    They will never reach everyone. Even if they copied every post autoamtically in the launcher and it would be displayed to the players, not everyone would actually read them.

    It is extremely unlikely that you will actually miss something important if you try to stay informed on the game, because there are people that use different news sources, and will mention what they read elsewhere here.

    Trying to force the devs to reply only in your preferred channel based on some form of guilting or shaming just means that you will simply get less replies overall from them. (Or, well, you might just be ignored.)

    The only thing the developers owe us is delivering the game. And the only really meaningful reply to your feedback is what actually makes it in the game. People asked for something like reeingineering and salvaging for your years. It didn't happen, until it did. So the dev response is "we think it's a good enough idea to implement and bring into the game, but it took this long to get to it." And any other dev response you would have gotten before would have been "good idea, maybe some time."

    If you want to know the whys, hows or whens, you can try to hope they provide some replies somewhere publically, but you're not owed anything.

    The stuff posted by Cryptic employees online is either their own personal decision to do, not obligated by anything, or part of marketing. And it can be part of marketing to put stuff out there and make it rewarding for people to look for it and collect the information and present them at other places, as well.
    But the most important part might be: The goal of marketing is to get people to play the game. People busy on the STO forums are likely already playing. People on reddit or twitter may not.
    If you take the 'you's out of your post, for the non-personal 'one', then I agree entirely (because it doesn't really apply to me on a personal basis) It's not a case of what my preferred channel is, but one of; This *gestures all around* this, is Cryptic's Official Forum... :lol::lol: There's not much point in having an official forum, if it's not easy for everyone (devs and players) to use, to the point where information is given over other channels :lol::lol: If Reddit is easier to parse, that's absolutely fair enough :sunglasses: If information is to be put out on other channels, such as fb and twitter, that's fine, all that needs to be done, is to direct players to those channels, to be getting the information :sunglasses: Equally, if ambassadorkael has a plan to improve the forum, that's Kool and the Gang too :sunglasses:

    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    arionisa wrote: »
    I've only been around for three years, and I don't follow every single forum, however I do follow the "important" ones, you know, bugs, etc, and seeing a Dev actually post something in any of them is extremely rare. It does seem to have gotten a little better recently but still, the Official STO Forums should be where we get information, not eventually receiving it second or third hand from someone who saw something on twitter/reddit. Surely if a Dev has time to post on twitter or Reddit they have time to post here in the Official Forums.

    THIS. This was brought up several times over the years. It's something that has continually been brought up in and out of these forums. My own personal experiences in reporting gameplay/system bugs on the forums vs reddit has been night and day in response.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
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    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
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    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
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