I've noticed that now almost any DC/DHC can be re-engineered up to [Dmg]x4; before the Re-Engineering Feature the [Dmg]x4 weapons were still available but nonetheless they were few and far between (and very expensive), now they can be as common as you wish.
The issue is: with all those DC/DHC [Dmg]x4 the "Quad Cannons" (by default [Dmg]x4) are far, far less exclusive.
What about changing them into something exclusive again?
I don't know...
[Pen]x4 ?
[<something>]x5 ?
[<somethingElse>] ?
I've noticed that now almost any DC/DHC can be re-engineered up to [Dmg]x4; before the Re-Engineering Feature the [Dmg]x4 weapons were still available but nonetheless they were few and far between (and very expensive), now they can be as common as you wish.
The issue is: with all those DC/DHC [Dmg]x4 the "Quad Cannons" (by default [Dmg]x4) are far, far less exclusive.
What about changing them into something exclusive again?
I don't know...
[Pen]x4 ?
[<something>]x5 ?
[<somethingElse>] ?
Quads get a [CrtX] mod at UR which is a 5th mod that DHC/DC do not get.
Okay, after spending the best part of this afternoon playing with the system my 2¢ is that I think the prices for the re-eng is near spot on. Considering that the re-roll is random at the moment, the number of tries it would take to get the mod you want means the cost could mount up pretty quick, so even though it doesn't look like much the final total could be higher.
I very much like the fact that once you do get a mod you want, you can relock that mod and carry on rolling if need be. Like others have said it would be nice if it was made certain that the mod you want to get rid of would not be a possibility on the next roll - after all you want to get rid of it, why would you want it back!!!! I'm guessing the reason at the moment would be programming and the number of variations but it really really would be a good thing to add.
With regard to the costs, I will mention that I am surprised that part of the cost is another dilithium sink given that the fact fleet holdings seem to be stalled out because everyone is using dill for everything else indicating that there now isn't enough spare dill in the game (I am probably wrong on this but this is my point of view) so given the amount of Ec and GPL now floating around I would have thought that this would have been a golden opportunity to use one of those currencies instead!
I feel that the costs in salvage and dilithium should be at most 500 of each per slot. It would seem to me that the main reason for a player to want it higher would be a fear of Exchange prices taking a major hit (which something needs to be done about those prices). Aside from that, things need to be set up so that even the most casual player and those who either by necessity of real life commitments or simple desire to not make a game another full-time job have decent access to various aspects of game content.
Dil price is in my sweet spot where i'd willing to grind etc.
Salvage price might be high until more items become salvageable. I know we dont want to roll consoles right now but making them salvage would be super helpful in the salvage gathering.
Currently R&D mods can't be rerolled. It would be nice if these could be rolled through a pool of just R&D-only mods. As it is, this system doesn't do much to alleviate the issue of needing to craft weapons at Mk II and upgrade to have a chance of getting a desirable mod, and I still see no reason to craft a Mk XII weapon.
Hope to see Fleet and R&D consoles go into the system soon. I've got quite a few of the former with mods I no longer want that I've been sitting one because of the resource investment, even if I never actually use them anymore.
The cost to re=roll needs to go up, WAY up. @borticuscryptic said that values are just placeholders for now. I envision the cost being closer to 10,000+ dilithium per mod per roll.
Nah, not that high, given that you still may need to roll a fair few times for each mod you want to fix on each bit of gear, on each character. In my look last night, the cost per roll on a single mod slot (independent of the rank and grade of the item in question) was 500 dil and 350 salvage. I'd be willing to pay something like twice that (or maybe three times at the upper limit).
The lower cost-per-slot also seemed to be working for me, in that it was 500/900/1200 to roll 1/2/3 slots simultaneously. Also of note, and I don't think it necessarily qualifies as a bug, was that some rep and event reward items were inconsistently able to be re-engineered while others were not. Of note, the special Chroniton torp from the temporal rep, and the Cochrane shotgun could be re-rolled, but most other rep gear and things like the voth daggers and tholian radiation cannon could not.
A genuine bug that I saw, and which may already have been rectified, was the flak shot heavy weapon being able to be salvaged. I haven't tested other heavy weapons or the same heavy weapon at different stages of upgrade (it was mk14 gold).
Feedback in a nutshell is that the mechanics and interface of the system seem like exactly what I wanted, but the price needs to go up quite a bit, because it's in an entirely different league from the cost of re-doing an item currently.
We didn't put Salvage on the Drozana vendor on purpose, so that you'd need to try out the Salvage mechanic.
well, i tried it, and...there needs to be a way to mass salvage gear rather than having to right-click, select salvage, hit confirm and rinse&repeat one-by-one for potentially dozens of pieces of gear
also, if you want people testing the salvage system...posting a list of what each mark and rarity is supposed to grant in salvage amounts would be a MAJOR help, so discrepancies can be spotted
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
In the end the overall dil cost for re-rolling will be the biggest factor for most players. Spending a large amount of dil on a single roll per mod just to land on the same mod or alternating between unwanted mods will turn off the majority of players. People will look at cost. Phoenix boxes also cost dil which people save up for during their limited run events, as well as for fleet donations. I'm not worried about farming for salvage because there doesn't seem to be a limit per day as dil has. The cost right now is very friendly to everyone and I hope it stays that way.
The cost to re=roll needs to go up, WAY up. @borticuscryptic said that values are just placeholders for now. I envision the cost being closer to 10,000+ dilithium per mod per roll.
are you KIDDING me??
not with this RNG cr@p!
if its to bne 10K dil i dotn want a RNG roll but a choose to change to tool pff
People act like 10,000 dilitihium is a lot of dilithium. It's really not that much. For simplicity sake, I will say that perhaps the MAXIMUM amount that should be considered by the devs is 8,000 dilithium per mod per roll. After doing some attempts over and over again and seeing the probabilities, I think that the "correct" amount is actually much lower than I previously stated.
Anything from about 2,000 dilithium to 4,000 dilithium per roll (single mod) should be the correct amount once the system is finally rolled out.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I fail to understand why it has to be random. Would it kill you to make it possible to build the gear we actually want? Real research and development is not a random-number function. People do not throw a bucket of dice on the table and build a complex system in that manner. Engineering does not work that way either. Feels like it if you have a **** manager, but in general it's a methodical approach that yields predictable results.
Do away with the random factor and allow us to build what we want at a cost, and you'll get a lot further and make a lot more people happy.
There's actually a real world example that I can think of that compares to your "roll of the dice" scenario. Each player that crafts a weapon does so in the hope that it will come out with their perfect desired mods. However, most of the time this does not happen. Too see a comparison, we only need to look at CPU manufacturers.
Intel produces their 8th generation processors with the hope and prayer that they will all be 6 core hyperthreaded i7's. However, most of the time, the processors have bad cores. These cores get locked which is how we get quad core i3's and 6 core non-hyperthreaded i5's. It's essentially a roll of the dice for intel with each processor that they produce.
AMD does the same exact thing. It's impossible to make processors that will have all cores functional all of the time or even most of the time.
Adding this kind of random element increases an enjoyable grind. And yes it IS enjoyable. You get greater satisfaction once you finally earn your gear instead of just crating something on demand without any element of randomness or chance.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I've noticed that now almost any DC/DHC can be re-engineered up to [Dmg]x4; before the Re-Engineering Feature the [Dmg]x4 weapons were still available but nonetheless they were few and far between (and very expensive), now they can be as common as you wish.
The issue is: with all those DC/DHC [Dmg]x4 the "Quad Cannons" (by default [Dmg]x4) are far, far less exclusive.
What about changing them into something exclusive again?
I don't know...
[Pen]x4 ?
[<something>]x5 ?
[<somethingElse>] ?
Quads get a [CrtX] mod at UR which is a 5th mod that DHC/DC do not get.
Sorry pal, but out of the box the Quad Cannon is [Dmg]x4; what it will become at Ultra Rare and Epic level is completely another story.
End of my 2 cents.
quad cannons are already exclusive - by having a 4th mod at very rare instead of the standard 3...a trait shared by only one other weapon in the game; namely, the spiral-wave disruptors
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
People act like 10,000 dilitihium is a lot of dilithium. It's really not that much. For simplicity sake, I will say that perhaps the MAXIMUM amount that should be considered by the devs is 8,000 dilithium per mod per roll. After doing some attempts over and over again and seeing the probabilities, I think that the "correct" amount is actually much lower than I previously stated.
Anything from about 2,000 dilithium to 4,000 dilithium per roll (single mod) should be the correct amount once the system is finally rolled out.
I'm assuming if you think 10,000 dilithium isn't alot, then you have quite a number toons to refine dilithium with just as I do, and you're someone who appreciates numbers, at least in part, so I will give you some numbers. I have 20 toons at level 60 at this point. At this particular point I can rake in and refine 160,000 dilithium per day across those 20 toons for a total of 1,120,000 dilithium in a single week. That's of course assuming I grind out all 20 toons every single day or already have ore I can flip. For a newer player that may only have their one toon, you're looking at over a week before they're able to save enough dilithium to roll each mod only a single time. They have to balance the system around more people than just those such as our or I that might could afford 10,000 per roll.
As it sits right now there is rng involved in the system. If I pull the slot lever and drop 10,000 dilithium on that spin, there is the strong possibility I may not get the mod I'm after. In fact it's all but guaranteed that I'm probably not going to get the mods I'm after on the first spin unless I get really lucky. On average I found it took me about 5-7 rolls per slot to get the mod that I wanted. Now if we assume the happy medium of rolls to get the mod I wanted, that's 60,000 dilithium per mod, and if we multiply that out for each of the 5 mods on an average weapon, that's 300,000 dilithium per weapon. That also means that I wasted 250,000 dilithium on bad rolls that didn't give me what I was after and that I have nothing to show for. That dilithium is simply gone. To further drive this home let's multiply that out across the average of 8 weapons on a ship. To re-roll a full ship that would cost me 2,400,000 dilithium just to get the mods to where I want. That would also mean that out of that 2,400,000 dilithium that I've wasted 2,000,000 dilithium on bad rolls with nothing to show for it. Even if I were to dilithium cap all 20 toons every single day, it would take me just under 3 weeks to all 8 weapons on ONE ship the way I wanted them. That's just the weapons and does NOT count other items such as shields, engines, deflector, and any other items I may want to re-roll at some point if/when I'm able to do so. Just for sake of argument let's also assume that I gave only 3 of those characters a set of re-engineered weapons, one sci toon, one tactical toon, and one engineer, that's 7,200,000 dilithium with 6,000,000 of that being wasted rolls. This also doesn't take into account the salvage I would need either. That would mean that 83.4% of the dilithium I would spend at that high of a cost would be wasted with nothing to show for it. I don't know anyone willing to take that kind of a hit to their dilithium reserves with nothing to show for it.
If what you're proposing were to go through and the dilithium price jumped to 10k per roll, then the average player wouldn't do anything with the system as they're not going to drop that kind of cash or grind that hard for something that's not a sure thing. If I'm going to consider dropping 10k to change a mod, I better be able to pick what mod I'm getting.
The prices on re-rolls are fine where they are, and I would think that you would like the fact you could roll any mod for as cheap as 500 dilithium per roll as that's less you have to invest. That's just me anyways. Also I'm curious as to why exactly you think the cost should be so much higher than what it is now.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
People act like 10,000 dilitihium is a lot of dilithium. It's really not that much. For simplicity sake, I will say that perhaps the MAXIMUM amount that should be considered by the devs is 8,000 dilithium per mod per roll. After doing some attempts over and over again and seeing the probabilities, I think that the "correct" amount is actually much lower than I previously stated.
Anything from about 2,000 dilithium to 4,000 dilithium per roll (single mod) should be the correct amount once the system is finally rolled out.
I'm assuming if you think 10,000 dilithium isn't alot, then you have quite a number toons to refine dilithium with just as I do, and you're someone who appreciates numbers, at least in part, so I will give you some numbers. I have 20 toons at level 60 at this point. At this particular point I can rake in and refine 160,000 dilithium per day across those 20 toons for a total of 1,120,000 dilithium in a single week. That's of course assuming I grind out all 20 toons every single day or already have ore I can flip. For a newer player that may only have their one toon, you're looking at over a week before they're able to save enough dilithium to roll each mod only a single time. They have to balance the system around more people than just those such as our or I that might could afford 10,000 per roll.
As it sits right now there is rng involved in the system. If I pull the slot lever and drop 10,000 dilithium on that spin, there is the strong possibility I may not get the mod I'm after. In fact it's all but guaranteed that I'm probably not going to get the mods I'm after on the first spin unless I get really lucky. On average I found it took me about 5-7 rolls per slot to get the mod that I wanted. Now if we assume the happy medium of rolls to get the mod I wanted, that's 60,000 dilithium per mod, and if we multiply that out for each of the 5 mods on an average weapon, that's 300,000 dilithium per weapon. That also means that I wasted 250,000 dilithium on bad rolls that didn't give me what I was after and that I have nothing to show for. That dilithium is simply gone. To further drive this home let's multiply that out across the average of 8 weapons on a ship. To re-roll a full ship that would cost me 2,400,000 dilithium just to get the mods to where I want. That would also mean that out of that 2,400,000 dilithium that I've wasted 2,000,000 dilithium on bad rolls with nothing to show for it. Even if I were to dilithium cap all 20 toons every single day, it would take me just under 3 weeks to all 8 weapons on ONE ship the way I wanted them. That's just the weapons and does NOT count other items such as shields, engines, deflector, and any other items I may want to re-roll at some point if/when I'm able to do so. Just for sake of argument let's also assume that I gave only 3 of those characters a set of re-engineered weapons, one sci toon, one tactical toon, and one engineer, that's 7,200,000 dilithium with 6,000,000 of that being wasted rolls. This also doesn't take into account the salvage I would need either. That would mean that 83.4% of the dilithium I would spend at that high of a cost would be wasted with nothing to show for it. I don't know anyone willing to take that kind of a hit to their dilithium reserves with nothing to show for it.
If what you're proposing were to go through and the dilithium price jumped to 10k per roll, then the average player wouldn't do anything with the system as they're not going to drop that kind of cash or grind that hard for something that's not a sure thing. If I'm going to consider dropping 10k to change a mod, I better be able to pick what mod I'm getting.
The prices on re-rolls are fine where they are, and I would think that you would like the fact you could roll any mod for as cheap as 500 dilithium per roll as that's less you have to invest. That's just me anyways. Also I'm curious as to why exactly you think the cost should be so much higher than what it is now.
I don't have a problem with a system in which you can potentially "waste" millions of dilithium. Also, your wall of text completely ignores the rest of my post including the end part in which I state that I now think the "right" price isn't 10,000. I think it's about 2,000 to 4,000.
I don't favor a price that's too low because I don't want it to be TOO easy for me to get the weapons that I want. By that I mean, I don't want to have all of my weapons on all my characters rerolled to the ideal mods in a single day. At current prices, I could pretty easily reroll a full set of crafted weapons to Dmgx3 Pen or whatever the "best" combo is these days for each character, including characters that I don't care about, without breaking a sweat.
Because of this, I prefer a dilithium cost (as previously stated) of about 2,000 to 4,000 per mod per roll. That way, it will cost me something that isn't just the dilithium equivalent of a quarter but at the same time is not expensive and will take me at least a bit of time (in days) to get a character fully rerolled.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I've noticed that now almost any DC/DHC can be re-engineered up to [Dmg]x4; before the Re-Engineering Feature the [Dmg]x4 weapons were still available but nonetheless they were few and far between (and very expensive), now they can be as common as you wish.
The issue is: with all those DC/DHC [Dmg]x4 the "Quad Cannons" (by default [Dmg]x4) are far, far less exclusive.
What about changing them into something exclusive again?
I don't know...
[Pen]x4 ?
[<something>]x5 ?
[<somethingElse>] ?
Quads get a [CrtX] mod at UR which is a 5th mod that DHC/DC do not get.
Sorry pal, but out of the box the Quad Cannon is [Dmg]x4; what it will become at Ultra Rare and Epic level is completely another story.
End of my 2 cents.
Any standard dual heavy cannon will have 3 mods at very rare. That's Dmgx3 for those that are keeping track. A quad cannon has Dmgx4 at very rare. Dmgx4 weapons are no longer "exclusive" to Quads and haven't been for a long time. However, the Quad is still HIGHLY desirable since it gets the built in 4th mod at VR instead of UR. It also gets a 5th and 6th mod at UR compared to just a 4th mod for a standard DHC. Still quite desirable despite the pointless complaint about any weapon being able to get Dmgx4.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Yeah, people don't feel good when they win a ship with a single key it always feels better after they've used about 200 keys or more. The longer it takes them to get something the better they feel about it when they do. That logic doesn't make sense. Also, Dil is the most flushable currency currently in this game with the Phoenix boxes, rep items, fleet projects, people converting into zen...etc. It is still 8k dil refined per day per toon which a lot of people only play 1 toon so factor in all the other things people spend dil on and 2-4k dil per roll becomes a burden on the player.
I don't have a problem with a system in which you can potentially "waste" millions of dilithium. Also, your wall of text completely ignores the rest of my post including the end part in which I state that I now think the "right" price isn't 10,000. I think it's about 2,000 to 4,000.
I don't favor a price that's too low because I don't want it to be TOO easy for me to get the weapons that I want. By that I mean, I don't want to have all of my weapons on all my characters rerolled to the ideal mods in a single day. At current prices, I could pretty easily reroll a full set of crafted weapons to Dmgx3 Pen or whatever the "best" combo is these days for each character, including characters that I don't care about, without breaking a sweat.
Because of this, I prefer a dilithium cost (as previously stated) of about 2,000 to 4,000 per mod per roll. That way, it will cost me something that isn't just the dilithium equivalent of a quarter but at the same time is not expensive and will take me at least a bit of time (in days) to get a character fully rerolled.
I understood what you were saying, and simply provided numbers as to why I do not agree with a price increase, especially one of 10,000 per roll. Even adjusted to 2,000 per roll that's more than I would ever want to spend. The most I would ever see being justified would be 1,600 per mod per roll as that would allow a single weapon to have each of its 5 mods rolled once per day. Even then I still think prices are fine where they are at 500 dilithium per roll. Where as folks like us may be able to basically sneeze 500 dilithium at this point, we are the exception and not the rule. Not everyone has that kind of resources laying around, especially if they're having to spend those resources on leveling their fleet and similar such things.
The average player isn't going to pay more than what they have to in order to get an item optimized and I honestly don't blame them. I don't pay anymore than what I have to in real life outside the game, so I'm certainly not about to start doing so in the game. What you're proposing as a problem already has solutions in game. perhaps limit yourself to x amount of rolls per day or so on. What you're proposing reminds me alot of the whole flying/no flying debate that went on in World of Warcraft several years back now. The folks who wanted flying removed wanted it removed because they felt it made the game too easy, or too quick and so on. Yet they had a solution in front of them the entire time which was to not use their flying mounts, or to limit their own personal use of it. You're certainly entitled to your opinion the price is too low just as the anti-flyers were entitled to their opinion on flying mounts. I will pose this big question to you similarly to how I did them. Why should the price be raised for everyone else simply because you think it would be too easy at 500 per roll? If we're going to discuss raising the prices which will effect everyone I don't view what you've posed so far as enough reason. You're free to argue it from whatever point of view you want, but that's my thoughts anyways.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
I really hope that the rerolling option for Epic Mods will never leave Tribble:
The power creep you get by things like [CrtD2][CrtD]x4 IMO makes a joke of the rebalancing that was done recently. If you have these in game once, you can hardly take them back.
Also: Salvage materials should become account bound.
Liking the system so far and have had no issues with it. It works as described. The costs are reasonable. I agree that salvage should be Account bound too. I also think that as well as the R&D mats, the R&D items that items are made with (Focusers etc) should be received too.
Read what others put about getting the same mod as they rerolled. You should have the choice of locking out that mod from a reroll but at a slightly higher cost.
I've noticed that some Rep items can be re-engineered, but for those that think this is a mistake, it's not as they have the same number of modifiers that normal weapons do. The key is the number of modifiers, not the actual place they came from, which was stated in various blogs and posts. Any dual proc weapon cannot be re-engineered....yet, as the Dev's have stated.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I really hope that the rerolling option for Epic Mods will never leave Tribble:
The power creep you get by things like [CrtD2][CrtD]x4 IMO makes a joke of the rebalancing that was done recently. If you have these in game once, you can hardly take them back.
Honestly thinking the same thing. The new epic mods are a neat bonus in the system, but they just add to the balance issues with endgame content that the rebalance tried to address. Not only that, there's still no real parity between weapon mods except [CrtD] and [Dmg], nearly everyone is going to aim for [CritD2] or [CritD/Dm] at epic because [CritH] and [Ac] mods just don't offer as much.
I really hope that the rerolling option for Epic Mods will never leave Tribble:
The power creep you get by things like [CrtD2][CrtD]x4 IMO makes a joke of the rebalancing that was done recently. If you have these in game once, you can hardly take them back.
Honestly thinking the same thing. The new epic mods are a neat bonus in the system, but they just add to the balance issues with endgame content that the rebalance tried to address. Not only that, there's still no real parity between weapon mods except [CrtD] and [Dmg], nearly everyone is going to aim for [CritD2] or [CritD/Dm] at epic because [CritH] and [Ac] mods just don't offer as much.
I prefer having DMG over CritD as it increases base damage and is consistent. CritH mechanic really should be affected by Defense, as it should be even harder to CritH a moving target than just hitting it. CritH pushing 30% is just plain silly.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I don't understand why we need a dil cost and a salvage cost. I agree with the posts they say that the random aspect is a bit wierd. But if we could pick and choose the mods we want than I would be ok with a dil cost. So just salavage for random, salvage and dil for a specific mods could be another way to go.
I modded a shield RegX4 and Reg/cap and my stats said under the Shield Regeneration Rate 'No Shields' and same with my impuse engine there was no turn rate make when I went full Turn.
I don't understand why we need a dil cost and a salvage cost. I agree with the posts they say that the random aspect is a bit wierd. But if we could pick and choose the mods we want than I would be ok with a dil cost. So just salavage for random, salvage and dil for a specific mods could be another way to go.
I modded a shield RegX4 and Reg/cap and my stats said under the Shield Regeneration Rate 'No Shields' and same with my impuse engine there was no turn rate make when I went full Turn.
Did you actually requip the items??
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
We didn't put Salvage on the Drozana vendor on purpose, so that you'd need to try out the Salvage mechanic.
well, i tried it, and...there needs to be a way to mass salvage gear rather than having to right-click, select salvage, hit confirm and rinse&repeat one-by-one for potentially dozens of pieces of gear
also, if you want people testing the salvage system...posting a list of what each mark and rarity is supposed to grant in salvage amounts would be a MAJOR help, so discrepancies can be spotted
i was thinking of a mass salvage system as well. Maybe like a tab in the replicator that shows salvageable materials in your inventory and lets you salvage them from there. same mechanic as recycling items for ec.
Comments
The issue is: with all those DC/DHC [Dmg]x4 the "Quad Cannons" (by default [Dmg]x4) are far, far less exclusive.
What about changing them into something exclusive again?
I don't know...
[Pen]x4 ?
[<something>]x5 ?
[<somethingElse>] ?
Quads get a [CrtX] mod at UR which is a 5th mod that DHC/DC do not get.
I very much like the fact that once you do get a mod you want, you can relock that mod and carry on rolling if need be. Like others have said it would be nice if it was made certain that the mod you want to get rid of would not be a possibility on the next roll - after all you want to get rid of it, why would you want it back!!!! I'm guessing the reason at the moment would be programming and the number of variations but it really really would be a good thing to add.
With regard to the costs, I will mention that I am surprised that part of the cost is another dilithium sink given that the fact fleet holdings seem to be stalled out because everyone is using dill for everything else indicating that there now isn't enough spare dill in the game (I am probably wrong on this but this is my point of view) so given the amount of Ec and GPL now floating around I would have thought that this would have been a golden opportunity to use one of those currencies instead!
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Dil price is in my sweet spot where i'd willing to grind etc.
Salvage price might be high until more items become salvageable. I know we dont want to roll consoles right now but making them salvage would be super helpful in the salvage gathering.
Hope to see Fleet and R&D consoles go into the system soon. I've got quite a few of the former with mods I no longer want that I've been sitting one because of the resource investment, even if I never actually use them anymore.
Nah, not that high, given that you still may need to roll a fair few times for each mod you want to fix on each bit of gear, on each character. In my look last night, the cost per roll on a single mod slot (independent of the rank and grade of the item in question) was 500 dil and 350 salvage. I'd be willing to pay something like twice that (or maybe three times at the upper limit).
The lower cost-per-slot also seemed to be working for me, in that it was 500/900/1200 to roll 1/2/3 slots simultaneously. Also of note, and I don't think it necessarily qualifies as a bug, was that some rep and event reward items were inconsistently able to be re-engineered while others were not. Of note, the special Chroniton torp from the temporal rep, and the Cochrane shotgun could be re-rolled, but most other rep gear and things like the voth daggers and tholian radiation cannon could not.
A genuine bug that I saw, and which may already have been rectified, was the flak shot heavy weapon being able to be salvaged. I haven't tested other heavy weapons or the same heavy weapon at different stages of upgrade (it was mk14 gold).
Feedback in a nutshell is that the mechanics and interface of the system seem like exactly what I wanted, but the price needs to go up quite a bit, because it's in an entirely different league from the cost of re-doing an item currently.
well, i tried it, and...there needs to be a way to mass salvage gear rather than having to right-click, select salvage, hit confirm and rinse&repeat one-by-one for potentially dozens of pieces of gear
also, if you want people testing the salvage system...posting a list of what each mark and rarity is supposed to grant in salvage amounts would be a MAJOR help, so discrepancies can be spotted
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Anything from about 2,000 dilithium to 4,000 dilithium per roll (single mod) should be the correct amount once the system is finally rolled out.
Intel produces their 8th generation processors with the hope and prayer that they will all be 6 core hyperthreaded i7's. However, most of the time, the processors have bad cores. These cores get locked which is how we get quad core i3's and 6 core non-hyperthreaded i5's. It's essentially a roll of the dice for intel with each processor that they produce.
AMD does the same exact thing. It's impossible to make processors that will have all cores functional all of the time or even most of the time.
Adding this kind of random element increases an enjoyable grind. And yes it IS enjoyable. You get greater satisfaction once you finally earn your gear instead of just crating something on demand without any element of randomness or chance.
Sorry pal, but out of the box the Quad Cannon is [Dmg]x4; what it will become at Ultra Rare and Epic level is completely another story.
End of my 2 cents.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I'm assuming if you think 10,000 dilithium isn't alot, then you have quite a number toons to refine dilithium with just as I do, and you're someone who appreciates numbers, at least in part, so I will give you some numbers. I have 20 toons at level 60 at this point. At this particular point I can rake in and refine 160,000 dilithium per day across those 20 toons for a total of 1,120,000 dilithium in a single week. That's of course assuming I grind out all 20 toons every single day or already have ore I can flip. For a newer player that may only have their one toon, you're looking at over a week before they're able to save enough dilithium to roll each mod only a single time. They have to balance the system around more people than just those such as our or I that might could afford 10,000 per roll.
As it sits right now there is rng involved in the system. If I pull the slot lever and drop 10,000 dilithium on that spin, there is the strong possibility I may not get the mod I'm after. In fact it's all but guaranteed that I'm probably not going to get the mods I'm after on the first spin unless I get really lucky. On average I found it took me about 5-7 rolls per slot to get the mod that I wanted. Now if we assume the happy medium of rolls to get the mod I wanted, that's 60,000 dilithium per mod, and if we multiply that out for each of the 5 mods on an average weapon, that's 300,000 dilithium per weapon. That also means that I wasted 250,000 dilithium on bad rolls that didn't give me what I was after and that I have nothing to show for. That dilithium is simply gone. To further drive this home let's multiply that out across the average of 8 weapons on a ship. To re-roll a full ship that would cost me 2,400,000 dilithium just to get the mods to where I want. That would also mean that out of that 2,400,000 dilithium that I've wasted 2,000,000 dilithium on bad rolls with nothing to show for it. Even if I were to dilithium cap all 20 toons every single day, it would take me just under 3 weeks to all 8 weapons on ONE ship the way I wanted them. That's just the weapons and does NOT count other items such as shields, engines, deflector, and any other items I may want to re-roll at some point if/when I'm able to do so. Just for sake of argument let's also assume that I gave only 3 of those characters a set of re-engineered weapons, one sci toon, one tactical toon, and one engineer, that's 7,200,000 dilithium with 6,000,000 of that being wasted rolls. This also doesn't take into account the salvage I would need either. That would mean that 83.4% of the dilithium I would spend at that high of a cost would be wasted with nothing to show for it. I don't know anyone willing to take that kind of a hit to their dilithium reserves with nothing to show for it.
If what you're proposing were to go through and the dilithium price jumped to 10k per roll, then the average player wouldn't do anything with the system as they're not going to drop that kind of cash or grind that hard for something that's not a sure thing. If I'm going to consider dropping 10k to change a mod, I better be able to pick what mod I'm getting.
The prices on re-rolls are fine where they are, and I would think that you would like the fact you could roll any mod for as cheap as 500 dilithium per roll as that's less you have to invest. That's just me anyways. Also I'm curious as to why exactly you think the cost should be so much higher than what it is now.
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I don't favor a price that's too low because I don't want it to be TOO easy for me to get the weapons that I want. By that I mean, I don't want to have all of my weapons on all my characters rerolled to the ideal mods in a single day. At current prices, I could pretty easily reroll a full set of crafted weapons to Dmgx3 Pen or whatever the "best" combo is these days for each character, including characters that I don't care about, without breaking a sweat.
Because of this, I prefer a dilithium cost (as previously stated) of about 2,000 to 4,000 per mod per roll. That way, it will cost me something that isn't just the dilithium equivalent of a quarter but at the same time is not expensive and will take me at least a bit of time (in days) to get a character fully rerolled.
Any standard dual heavy cannon will have 3 mods at very rare. That's Dmgx3 for those that are keeping track. A quad cannon has Dmgx4 at very rare. Dmgx4 weapons are no longer "exclusive" to Quads and haven't been for a long time. However, the Quad is still HIGHLY desirable since it gets the built in 4th mod at VR instead of UR. It also gets a 5th and 6th mod at UR compared to just a 4th mod for a standard DHC. Still quite desirable despite the pointless complaint about any weapon being able to get Dmgx4.
I understood what you were saying, and simply provided numbers as to why I do not agree with a price increase, especially one of 10,000 per roll. Even adjusted to 2,000 per roll that's more than I would ever want to spend. The most I would ever see being justified would be 1,600 per mod per roll as that would allow a single weapon to have each of its 5 mods rolled once per day. Even then I still think prices are fine where they are at 500 dilithium per roll. Where as folks like us may be able to basically sneeze 500 dilithium at this point, we are the exception and not the rule. Not everyone has that kind of resources laying around, especially if they're having to spend those resources on leveling their fleet and similar such things.
The average player isn't going to pay more than what they have to in order to get an item optimized and I honestly don't blame them. I don't pay anymore than what I have to in real life outside the game, so I'm certainly not about to start doing so in the game. What you're proposing as a problem already has solutions in game. perhaps limit yourself to x amount of rolls per day or so on. What you're proposing reminds me alot of the whole flying/no flying debate that went on in World of Warcraft several years back now. The folks who wanted flying removed wanted it removed because they felt it made the game too easy, or too quick and so on. Yet they had a solution in front of them the entire time which was to not use their flying mounts, or to limit their own personal use of it. You're certainly entitled to your opinion the price is too low just as the anti-flyers were entitled to their opinion on flying mounts. I will pose this big question to you similarly to how I did them. Why should the price be raised for everyone else simply because you think it would be too easy at 500 per roll? If we're going to discuss raising the prices which will effect everyone I don't view what you've posed so far as enough reason. You're free to argue it from whatever point of view you want, but that's my thoughts anyways.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
No cool, it must be prevented.
would be best to NOT have rng at all
make it so that we can pay X dil to change it to what we desire
upgrading is already an rng dil sink...
PLAYERS HATE RNG
ingame: @Felisean
The power creep you get by things like [CrtD2][CrtD]x4 IMO makes a joke of the rebalancing that was done recently. If you have these in game once, you can hardly take them back.
Also: Salvage materials should become account bound.
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Read what others put about getting the same mod as they rerolled. You should have the choice of locking out that mod from a reroll but at a slightly higher cost.
I've noticed that some Rep items can be re-engineered, but for those that think this is a mistake, it's not as they have the same number of modifiers that normal weapons do. The key is the number of modifiers, not the actual place they came from, which was stated in various blogs and posts. Any dual proc weapon cannot be re-engineered....yet, as the Dev's have stated.
I prefer having DMG over CritD as it increases base damage and is consistent. CritH mechanic really should be affected by Defense, as it should be even harder to CritH a moving target than just hitting it. CritH pushing 30% is just plain silly.
I modded a shield RegX4 and Reg/cap and my stats said under the Shield Regeneration Rate 'No Shields' and same with my impuse engine there was no turn rate make when I went full Turn.
Did you actually requip the items??
i was thinking of a mass salvage system as well. Maybe like a tab in the replicator that shows salvageable materials in your inventory and lets you salvage them from there. same mechanic as recycling items for ec.