test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Official Feedback Thread for Re-Engineering

135

Comments

  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 31,591 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    CritH pushing 30% is just plain silly.


    no it isn't; it's an industry standard now

    most if not all RPGs and games containing any kind of %-based critical hit system released within the past 10 years allow you to easily reach 30% without sacrificing other parts of your build's capabilities; STO isn't unique in this regard​​
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

    How Game Devs SHOULD be interacted with:
    http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/157238832062/i-remember-your-52080-rule-and-it-was-an-awesome

    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"

    "Beware of dog. Or possibly, enhanced, psycho-addicted, cybernetically-enhanced nightstalker death-dealing dog from hell."
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.

    Stand with Star Trek: The Animated Series content for STO! #TASforSTO
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 3,152 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    CritH pushing 30% is just plain silly.


    no it isn't; it's an industry standard now

    most if not all RPGs and games containing any kind of %-based critical hit system released within the past 10 years allow you to easily reach 30% without sacrificing other parts of your build's capabilities; STO isn't unique in this regard​​

    I know....it's plain stupid. I harken back to my D&D days where you were lucky to get a 10% chance if that. As I said, CritH should be affected by Defense. It's only common sense. The chances of a CritH on a high speed escort should be almost non-existant. The chance of a CritH on something with a whole load of shields should be non-existant unless you can precisely pinpoint the shield overlaps. Yes, yes, I'm over sciencing it....but I like things to actually make sense in a Star Trek game.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • dragonhef01dragonhef01 Member Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    Here are some thoughts:

    - Vendors need a salvage tab, because we're going to be doing this A Lot and right clicking just won't cut it.

    - Difficulties and drops Need to be Overhauled: I barely saw a difference between normal and Elite. Really??

    - Be able to transfer salvage to other toons via account bank.
    Post edited by dragonhef01 on
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 1,667 Community Moderator
    leemwatson wrote: »
    I know....it's plain stupid. I harken back to my D&D days where you were lucky to get a 10% chance if that. As I said, CritH should be affected by Defense. It's only common sense. The chances of a CritH on a high speed escort should be almost non-existant. The chance of a CritH on something with a whole load of shields should be non-existant unless you can precisely pinpoint the shield overlaps. Yes, yes, I'm over sciencing it....but I like things to actually make sense in a Star Trek game.

    Depending on what end of the gun the escort is on, the increased CritH can easily be explained story wise as the person being either a good shot, or a great pilot, or both. Plot armor aside, the Defiant during the Dominion War was quick and precise with its shots and deadly at that. The Defiant was also alot harder to outright destroy vs other ships in fact due to it being an escort and being able to evade so easily. The extra stats in certain areas this system will give can easily be explained as further specialization of ships and weapons towards a certain goal. This turret here may hit harder than its brethren, this torpedo there may fly faster, that beam may be the most accurate in the fleet and so on.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • dukedom01dukedom01 Member Posts: 425 Arc User
    I see nobody addressed the other elephant in the room yet?

    Space Mines aside, you cannot reroll epic mods to dmgx2. Is there a good reason for that (i.e. that combination does not yield the damage bonus it 'should') or 'just' a design decision?

    It is really hard for me to justify rerolling an Ac/Dm Dmgx3 Pen weapon in that scenario.
    Ceterum censeo Otha supplendum in praemiis.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,067 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    Never, ever tell the Developers that something is too cheap or prices should increase. You won't be happy with the results. Two million Dilitium MACO Outfits anyone, 300k cr*ppy Environmental Suits with a color trim, anyone.

    Yeah, and giving Talaxian Captains a boost to Salvage potential would be a good idea.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • ulmanchunulmanchun Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    I just got in the this new slot machine mini-game. Anyway i only have one question that after a quick glace did not see. Is there a way to add [ARC] to the re-roll option to torpedos and dual beam banks. I want the beams banks to have alot more area but not an issue of distance, just less of a blind spot. also other options to wide angle torpedos that were no original wide angle torpedo. so you get the angle but loose some distance so... i don't can back fire to hurt yourself but all a larger targeting area. basically setup for quick attack at close range a group and then cloak out kinda situation. i know the regular beam arrays has better angle but i am talking about more power. plus if it fails you can stop that option now but want the opportunity to try since if is the test server and actually have the ability to test with test money. don't have the resources in holodeck.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    dukedom01 wrote: »
    I see nobody addressed the other elephant in the room yet?

    Space Mines aside, you cannot reroll epic mods to dmgx2. Is there a good reason for that (i.e. that combination does not yield the damage bonus it 'should') or 'just' a design decision?

    It is really hard for me to justify rerolling an Ac/Dm Dmgx3 Pen weapon in that scenario.

    they covered that in the ten forward weekly basically epic already gets a hidden dmg mod so a dmgx2 would actually be a dmg x3. which they decided may end up with no one with use anything else.


    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,198 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    Never, ever tell the Developers that something is too cheap or prices should increase. You won't be happy with the results. Two million Dilitium MACO Outfits anyone, 300k cr*ppy Environmental Suits with a color trim, anyone.
    I don't have a problem with any of this.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • dukedom01dukedom01 Member Posts: 425 Arc User
    nightken wrote: »
    dukedom01 wrote: »
    I see nobody addressed the other elephant in the room yet?

    Space Mines aside, you cannot reroll epic mods to dmgx2. Is there a good reason for that (i.e. that combination does not yield the damage bonus it 'should') or 'just' a design decision?

    It is really hard for me to justify rerolling an Ac/Dm Dmgx3 Pen weapon in that scenario.

    they covered that in the ten forward weekly basically epic already gets a hidden dmg mod so a dmgx2 would actually be a dmg x3. which they decided may end up with no one with use anything else.

    That is not a satisfying answer. 'Every' epic mod should have that inherent dmg bonus. So min-maxers will reroll to either crtdx2 or crtd/dm then.

    The only acceptable answer would be if because of some weird technobabble reason the dmx2 epic mod does not perform as efficient as expected (in either direction of the bell curve).

    Removing that option because of 'optics' leaves a stale taste.
    Ceterum censeo Otha supplendum in praemiis.
  • sovereign2727sovereign2727 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    Okay I agree if you can have CrtDx6 (Dmg), you should also be able to have Dmgx6 (7)... unless there is an explaination for it. Also I find the cost right now to be fine and it should not be touched. Just because some dude stockpiled millions of dil doesnt mean everyone else did.

    I also hope we can reengineer quad cannons in the future :P
  • joel1974joel1974 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    I think the cost is fine. Tested the new system a few times.

    Having an option where salvage can be transferred between toons, would be handy - but there are ways around with this for some items (that aren't character bound)

    Also other ways to earn salvage like DOFF assignments and/or admiralty could be handy.
  • dragonhef01dragonhef01 Member Posts: 327 Arc User
    ulmanchun wrote: »
    I just got in the this new slot machine mini-game. Anyway i only have one question that after a quick glace did not see. Is there a way to add [ARC] to the re-roll option to torpedos and dual beam banks. I want the beams banks to have alot more area but not an issue of distance, just less of a blind spot. also other options to wide angle torpedos that were no original wide angle torpedo. so you get the angle but loose some distance so... i don't can back fire to hurt yourself but all a larger targeting area. basically setup for quick attack at close range a group and then cloak out kinda situation. i know the regular beam arrays has better angle but i am talking about more power. plus if it fails you can stop that option now but want the opportunity to try since if is the test server and actually have the ability to test with test money. don't have the resources in holodeck.

    Too powerful, so that's not going to happen.

  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 1,667 Community Moderator
    @borticuscryptic upon further testing with the system I was able to kick up 2 very nasty bugs, with one of the bugs presenting a possible solution to the Romulan Plasma and similar weapon issues you guys have mentioned. These issues are still present as of Tribble patch ST.82.20171223a.4

    1: The Experimental Hyperexcited Ion Stream Projector on tribble can be claimed for free from the dilithium store as a mk Xii experimental weapon and then broken down into salvage. This can be repeated as many times as one desires with the current tribble patch for as much salvage as someone could want. The only thing someone would need to have then is dilithium and you can have infinite rolls for next to nothing.

    2: I also put the Advanced Diffusive Tetryon Torpedo Launcher from the lobi store into the system. Upon actually trying to roll it, the torpedo lost one of its mods but otherwise still functioned. Instead of having the standard 5 mods at epic the torpedo is supposed to have, mine only had 4. So far this is the only item I have observed losing mods. If i'm not mistaken I'm pretty sure those torps also had an issue with a missing mod when they were first introduced as well.

    Finally this brings me to the possible fix. Since this torpedo also has 2 procs, 1 being the Protomatter Radiation and the other being the Diffusive Tetryon proc, why not treat other items like the Romulan Plasma, Phased Tetryon etc like the system did my broken torpedo. Even though the torpedo has 2 procs and a missing mod the system was able to still recognize the other 4 mods and roll them without needing to add the torpedo procs themselves into the system. I'm not sure what all you guys are doing under the hood still, but hopefully this could be a possible solution.

    Should you require further information I can wire you some screenshots and video of the bugs and the torpedo itself.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • khunsarikhunsari Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    I was thinking the future [PROC] mod will double the chance for hybrid weapons. 5% chance instead of 2.5% for the standard procs. That is what came to mind when it was mentioned. If it is just a placeholder to fit into the system that would be a disappointment.
  • orion0029orion0029 Member Posts: 1,107 Bug Hunter
    edited January 2018
    Ok, I've played around with this for a little while and I'd like to offer up a few thoughts. @borticuscryptic @crypticspartan#0627

    Firstly, that [Crtd2] mod. While I haven't yet rolled into one, I'm quite concerned that a mod like that will make all other epic mods less attractive to use. And might even exacerbate the 'power creep' issue of ever increasing damage output. It wouldn't be difficult at all to walk through Elite content with 8 Antiproton beam arrays mk XIV [Crtd2] [crtd]x4. Personally, I wouldn't mind at all if this mod didn't make it to the final Holodeck release.

    Next, Advanced Fleet weapons, ever since the upgrade system these weapons have been passed over by loot, crafted, lockbox weapons which can be upgraded to be better than these. Now that they can be re-rolled, it makes little sense to even use/buy them. Perhaps Advanced Fleet weapons should be given a unique mod, or something else to differentiate them from other weapons. Probably should put a pin in this one for later...

    Also, adding such an item modification system would allow players to drop mods which are percieved as less effective, I'm looking at you [Acc] and [CrtH]. It might be worth looking into these mods for possible improvements to bring them in line with [Dmg] and [CrtD].

    As for the costs of re-rolling each mod, I have no issues with the current costs in dilithium. However, the costs in salvage do seem a bit much. I wouldn't mind this much if it were somewhat easier to get salvage. Perhaps increasing the range of items that can be salvaged, or even adding salvage to certain DOFF/Admirality assignment rewards.

    Edit: Alsmost forgot, salvaging items is rather unintuitive. By that I mean you don't know how much salvage you get until you tear an item apart. Ideally adding the salvage value in the tooltip would solve this, but if that is too difficult perhaps the salvage value can be added to the confirmation dialogue?

    Overall I do like this system, even in its rough testing state. Seems like a positive addition to STO. :)
    Post edited by orion0029 on
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,252 Arc User
    nightken wrote: »
    they covered that in the ten forward weekly basically epic already gets a hidden dmg mod so a dmgx2 would actually be a dmg x3. which they decided may end up with no one with use anything else.
    dukedom01 wrote: »
    That is not a satisfying answer. 'Every' epic mod should have that inherent dmg bonus. So min-maxers will reroll to either crtdx2 or crtd/dm then.

    The only acceptable answer would be if because of some weird technobabble reason the dmx2 epic mod does not perform as efficient as expected (in either direction of the bell curve).

    Removing that option because of 'optics' leaves a stale taste.

    Let me get this straight. The claim is that [CrtD]x4 [CrtD2] (plus hidden Dm) is OK, and [Dmg]x4 [CritD/Dm] (plus hidden Dm) is OK, but somehow [Dmg]x4 [Dm2] (plus hidden Dm) is just too much? Anyone else raise a Vulcan eyebrow at this?

    P.S. Is it spelled "CrtD" and "CrtH" or "CritD" and "CritH", or is this just another arbitrary inconsistency?
    Waiting for a programmer ...

    qVpg1km.png
  • disqord#9557 disqord Member Posts: 505 Arc User
    One has to wonder how much the devs actually know about the dps leagues and the game in general when dmgx6 is out of the question, but crtdx6 is totally fine.
  • dukedom01dukedom01 Member Posts: 425 Arc User
    frtoaster wrote: »
    [...]
    P.S. Is it spelled "CrtD" and "CrtH" or "CritD" and "CritH", or is this just another arbitrary inconsistency?

    I think the the single mods use the CritH name and the epic combination(s) the shortened ones.
    Ceterum censeo Otha supplendum in praemiis.
  • batdoodbatdood Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    I tried re-engineering a weapon to get rid of an [acc] mod and I got [acc] eight more times before I could finally settle on a mod I wanted. That doesn't include the six other times that I got a mod I didn't want on the same weapon. As far as I'm concerned, the Dil prices for this feature are absolutely fine the way they are currently are, as it makes this system accessible to everyone. Not just the people who farm Dil as a career. If they are going to raise the Dil cost, then they should at the very least lock out mods you've already rolled as other people have suggested. If they make it super expensive then we should be able to pick the exact mods we want altogether and be done with it.

    Others have suggested providing a solution for mass salvaging and I totally agree with that. An extra tab on the vendors would be ideal but you could always put a specific salvage vendor on the Starbase as well. Either way, mass salvaging really should be implemented in some way as salvaging through an entire inventory of vendor trash is really tedious as it currently exists on Tribble.

    Speaking of salvage, would I like to see more? Yes but it's not aboslutely game breaking as you're not capped to a daily limit like we are when refining Dil.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 3,152 Arc User
    One has to wonder how much the devs actually know about the dps leagues and the game in general when dmgx6 is out of the question, but crtdx6 is totally fine.

    I'd go for DMGx6 over CritDx6 anyday, especially on alt toons. Consistent DPS is more favourable over (15% might get) spike DPS.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • prospro963prospro963 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    themarie wrote: »
    I played around with it this morning.

    I fail to understand why it has to be random. Would it kill you to make it possible to build the gear we actually want? Real research and development is not a random-number function. People do not throw a bucket of dice on the table and build a complex system in that manner. Engineering does not work that way either. Feels like it if you have a **** manager, but in general it's a methodical approach that yields predictable results.

    Do away with the random factor and allow us to build what we want at a cost, and you'll get a lot further and make a lot more people happy.

    I agree. Not only that but it appears that not everything can be salvaged ... all the 'junk' equipment requisitions you get from Reputation progress, for example, cannot be salvaged. They can be upgraded, so why can't they salvaged?
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,919 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    If ever I have read a headline on the STO Forums that makes me want to laugh maniacally...it has got to be "Epic Weapons Dmg x7 Coming to Holodeck".

    Ever consider limits? Or are you going to get serious about adding real Elite content for these folks willing to grind this out?

    Or at least do something with PvP so they can go bash each other's heads instead of having all these folks trolling/AFKing those of us happy doing "Normal" or "Advanced".
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • hiep16hiep16 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edarta wrote: »
    I really hope that the rerolling option for Epic Mods will never leave Tribble:

    The power creep you get by things like [CrtD2][CrtD]x4 IMO makes a joke of the rebalancing that was done recently. If you have these in game once, you can hardly take them back.

    Also: Salvage materials should become account bound.
    -I suppose that you can only have 4 times a mod for example CrtDx4 then the CrtD option will be locked out. That would prevent the power creep. The system was planned to remove one unfit mod for example CrtD x3 Acc so you can remove the ACC mod and not to make DMGx7 or CrtDx6 Dmg. If CrtDx6 Dmg/Dmgx7 are possible the whole rebalancing would be destroyed and then 300k+ Dps would be again common what you don't see again.(That why the last rebalancing have been made to destroy the 400k+ Dps Ships.

    -The Dili costs are perfect not much or less. With 500 Dili each reroll even the average player can use this system without long waiting.

    -It would be good if you can reroll all Weapons from Reputation. If you can reroll Deflectors I see one problem: The epic Solanae Deflector Array can loose its role as the best exotic deflector available.
  • gamer940gamer940 Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    One alteration that needs to be made is that those crafting only mods should be able to be unlocked for reroll. This is because if you end up making something with those crappy Snare or Thrust mods (or have an old one still with PvPDmg or the like), you should be able to get rid of the mod if you want.

    So, in short, making it to where crafting is the only way to get those mods but the reroll system can remove them would be great.
  • entnx01entnx01 Member Posts: 534 Arc User

    gamer940 wrote: »
    One alteration that needs to be made is that those crafting only mods should be able to be unlocked for reroll. This is because if you end up making something with those crappy Snare or Thrust mods (or have an old one still with PvPDmg or the like), you should be able to get rid of the mod if you want.

    So, in short, making it to where crafting is the only way to get those mods but the reroll system can remove them would be great.

    Yep. I addressed that in the (approximately) 25th post of this thread...on page 1...

    TL;DR (though it's not that long): Bort said on Reddit it should be working as you describe, but on Tribble atm craft-only mods are locked and can't be unlocked. The question is which one is wrong: Tribble, or Bort?
  • reddwarf#5987 reddwarf Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    After watching the ten forward weekly stream, where someone didn't know what one of the mods was (I think "pha" was the mod in question), it strikes me that adding short descriptions of the mods to the re-engineering UI might be useful.

    Perhaps the box listing available mods for each slot could say "Increased Phaser Resistance", or "Phaser Resistance +10%", or "pha (Phaser Resistance)" instead of "pha"?

    If I don't know what a mod does, I'm unlikely to want to re-roll for it.
  • reemus#2383 reemus Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    Were there any changes today? No patch notes but Tribble just did a 1.7 GB patch when I tried to get on...
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,477 Cryptic Developer
    entnx01 wrote: »
    TL;DR (though it's not that long): Bort said on Reddit it should be working as you describe, but on Tribble atm craft-only mods are locked and can't be unlocked. The question is which one is wrong: Tribble, or Bort?

    I'm wrong, for now. The way I described it is how I'd like it to behave eventually, but is not yet the case.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,198 Arc User
    Just loaded into tribble after the 1.6GB update. Have to say that I'm pleased that the dilithium cost for a roll was increased from 500 to 800 dilithium. While it's not as high as I think it should be (2,000), it's a step in the right direction.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Sign In or Register to comment.