I'm trying now I feel I'm ready for elite stuff in the game. But yeash...it's like a dust bowl of an abandoned desert western town with a bunch of tumble weed blowing around more than players. Oh well...
Join the DPS channel if you can. Also the NoP queue channel. You basically have to do private matches.
Thanks for the pointers. If I feel the need at least I have a better idea of what I need to do...
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
No, you are incapable of understanding basic statistical modeling principles. ISA sample size is perfectly valid, and the method of picking a single sample as a basis is quite common in statistical analasys. Further, the graph clearly shows that it is not biased towards DPSers, since the vast majority of players in that graph did not even reach a 20k benchmark. If it were only DPSers represented in that graph the peak would be somewhere much higher, probably around 40-50k DPS, since that's what the average DPS channel user is capable.
Also, the ISA queue is played by a huge percentage of the community every day, not only DPSers as you claim...go and do 10 runs and count the people doing less that 15k...they are the vast majority. You claimed to have reasons, why people do not join ISA queues anymore, but the fact that one pops every 20 seconds on average contradicts that.
So, you can choose to ignore all this, which you still do, it doesn't matter, to me or the community as a whole. The data, while not 100% accurate indicates a trend, that the vast majority of the community that does group content (the single player community doesn't count anyway) is far from fit for elite content.
You really are clueless ain't ya. The bronze channel requires only 10k DPS in ISA. You know...what the vast majority of the DPS league is in. The 40-50k mark are SILVER members of the DPS league...and certainly not the average DPS channel user.
YOU claim that ISA has more than DPS players because it pops often. I am claiming that it does NOT pop every 20 seconds because I have nights where it doesn't pop before my red alerts goes off cooldown and I never even get to play the bloody map. Hell, it hasn't popped in 20 seconds since s13 started for me. You want to know what the average of DPS of the group content player is? Than use the bloody red alerts. They are the ONLY maps that are constantly popping and the ONLY maps that would give you an accurate view of the average playerbase. As for players in ISA doing less than 15k...yeah...and I am saying those people ARE THE DPS CHASERS TOO YOU BLOODY MORON. You saying that since they are only doing 15k, they ain't chasing DPS is nonsense. First of all, 10-15k is enough for a DPS channel. That range is also enough to obliterate normal content in this game...and in story mode that is enough to wipe out the enemies other than dreads in seconds. Yeah, you reach this level and guess what sweetie, you are starting to chase DPS.
And seriously STOP WITH THE STRAWMAN. NOBODY is claiming that the average player in STO is elite ready. NOBODY...not even the OP who is asking for this. What some of us are claiming is that the average player and elite will be worse...oh so much worse than what the data in ISA is giving out going by ancedotal evidence in the two maps that actually show what the average STO player is like...and that is the borg and tholian RA where you constantly run into players who can't even take on a bunch of spheres and probes alone. Where if I don't join in, they (as in the 4 other players in the group) can't even do enough DPS to out pace the regen of the tholian dreads or the borg pickle. Yes...we all agree that the average player in STO is not even remotely elite ready. Why do you even keep bring this up?!? To make yourself feel smart? Well...it doesn't. All it does is make you stupid for using a logical fallicy over and over again.
To me, you are clueless... your utter ignorance for the data presented into your face can only be explained by your inflated ego. You view your own gutfeeling as more relevant as hard data, your explanations are subjective and flat out wrong. Your claims also show a complete ignorance of statistical analasys.
If a 15k dps build is "DPS chasing" you are delusional to say the least...but ofcourse it fits your opinion, and your "gut feeling" so you see it as fact.
sorry, but I'm not going down on your level and call you names, just because you are limited in your comprehension. If to you a 15k dps build means the player is a dps chaser, so be it...just shows you have zero knowledge of the game you seem to play.
And yes, ISA pops every 20 seconds...even less on high traffic days, maybe not for you, because you are certainly "special"
Right...and this is your example of not calling names. Right.... At least I admit what I am...you on the other hand have shown once again how clueless you actually are. You can't even realize that you are down at my level. Hell even lower since you don't even realize you are down here and pretend to be above it all. And I am NOT ignoring hard data since I admit that those ISA data is perfectly valid for seeing what is happening in ISA. I am saying that it can not be applied to the general population...which is basic statistical modeling principles. But since you are so utterly clueless that you think the data model from one queue...one that is ADVANCED no less to EVERYONE in STO, I really can't help you. I'm sorry...but you have crossed over from being ignorant into stupid land and I can't fix stupid.
As for why 15k is DPS chasing levels...I gave you perfectly good reason why it is. You have yet to actually give reason why it isn't other than you said so and to insult me. So yeah...who is the one going by gut feeling here? It ain't me. I have valid reasons that you have yet to refute.
And I have shown quite well that I know a lot about this game. You have shown none so far...and continue to do so.
As for ISA popping ever 20 seconds...not even the queue system agrees with you on that. So if it does pop for YOU every 20 seconds, you are the special one. The rest of us...yeah...not so much. For us mere mortals, we have to wait minutes outside of peek hours on weekends. At midnight on a tuesday, you ain't getting in at all.
Well...yeah...but he is claiming that it is ALWAYS popping every 20 seconds...that means even at midnight on tuesday...which I did try before I posted that message and did not get in at all. Thereby debunking his premise pretty throughly.
I know, just trying to keep the mood light His inability/refusal to grasp the situation of the statistics, is, as Spock would say, 'fascinating'
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
No, you are incapable of understanding basic statistical modeling principles. ISA sample size is perfectly valid, and the method of picking a single sample as a basis is quite common in statistical analasys. Further, the graph clearly shows that it is not biased towards DPSers, since the vast majority of players in that graph did not even reach a 20k benchmark. If it were only DPSers represented in that graph the peak would be somewhere much higher, probably around 40-50k DPS, since that's what the average DPS channel user is capable.
Also, the ISA queue is played by a huge percentage of the community every day, not only DPSers as you claim...go and do 10 runs and count the people doing less that 15k...they are the vast majority. You claimed to have reasons, why people do not join ISA queues anymore, but the fact that one pops every 20 seconds on average contradicts that.
So, you can choose to ignore all this, which you still do, it doesn't matter, to me or the community as a whole. The data, while not 100% accurate indicates a trend, that the vast majority of the community that does group content (the single player community doesn't count anyway) is far from fit for elite content.
You really are clueless ain't ya. The bronze channel requires only 10k DPS in ISA. You know...what the vast majority of the DPS league is in. The 40-50k mark are SILVER members of the DPS league...and certainly not the average DPS channel user.
YOU claim that ISA has more than DPS players because it pops often. I am claiming that it does NOT pop every 20 seconds because I have nights where it doesn't pop before my red alerts goes off cooldown and I never even get to play the bloody map. Hell, it hasn't popped in 20 seconds since s13 started for me. You want to know what the average of DPS of the group content player is? Than use the bloody red alerts. They are the ONLY maps that are constantly popping and the ONLY maps that would give you an accurate view of the average playerbase. As for players in ISA doing less than 15k...yeah...and I am saying those people ARE THE DPS CHASERS TOO YOU BLOODY MORON. You saying that since they are only doing 15k, they ain't chasing DPS is nonsense. First of all, 10-15k is enough for a DPS channel. That range is also enough to obliterate normal content in this game...and in story mode that is enough to wipe out the enemies other than dreads in seconds. Yeah, you reach this level and guess what sweetie, you are starting to chase DPS.
And seriously STOP WITH THE STRAWMAN. NOBODY is claiming that the average player in STO is elite ready. NOBODY...not even the OP who is asking for this. What some of us are claiming is that the average player and elite will be worse...oh so much worse than what the data in ISA is giving out going by ancedotal evidence in the two maps that actually show what the average STO player is like...and that is the borg and tholian RA where you constantly run into players who can't even take on a bunch of spheres and probes alone. Where if I don't join in, they (as in the 4 other players in the group) can't even do enough DPS to out pace the regen of the tholian dreads or the borg pickle. Yes...we all agree that the average player in STO is not even remotely elite ready. Why do you even keep bring this up?!? To make yourself feel smart? Well...it doesn't. All it does is make you stupid for using a logical fallicy over and over again.
To me, you are clueless... your utter ignorance for the data presented into your face can only be explained by your inflated ego. You view your own gutfeeling as more relevant as hard data, your explanations are subjective and flat out wrong. Your claims also show a complete ignorance of statistical analasys.
If a 15k dps build is "DPS chasing" you are delusional to say the least...but ofcourse it fits your opinion, and your "gut feeling" so you see it as fact.
sorry, but I'm not going down on your level and call you names, just because you are limited in your comprehension. If to you a 15k dps build means the player is a dps chaser, so be it...just shows you have zero knowledge of the game you seem to play.
And yes, ISA pops every 20 seconds...even less on high traffic days, maybe not for you, because you are certainly "special"
Right...and this is your example of not calling names. Right.... At least I admit what I am...you on the other hand have shown once again how clueless you actually are. You can't even realize that you are down at my level. Hell even lower since you don't even realize you are down here and pretend to be above it all. And I am NOT ignoring hard data since I admit that those ISA data is perfectly valid for seeing what is happening in ISA. I am saying that it can not be applied to the general population...which is basic statistical modeling principles. But since you are so utterly clueless that you think the data model from one queue...one that is ADVANCED no less to EVERYONE in STO, I really can't help you. I'm sorry...but you have crossed over from being ignorant into stupid land and I can't fix stupid.
As for why 15k is DPS chasing levels...I gave you perfectly good reason why it is. You have yet to actually give reason why it isn't other than you said so and to insult me. So yeah...who is the one going by gut feeling here? It ain't me. I have valid reasons that you have yet to refute.
And I have shown quite well that I know a lot about this game. You have shown none so far...and continue to do so.
As for ISA popping ever 20 seconds...not even the queue system agrees with you on that. So if it does pop for YOU every 20 seconds, you are the special one. The rest of us...yeah...not so much. For us mere mortals, we have to wait minutes outside of peek hours on weekends. At midnight on a tuesday, you ain't getting in at all.
Why you still refuse that ISA is a benchmark for the community as a large still baffles me...you do realize that it is the entry level advanced queue?
You do realize that it has no fail condition and it takes under 10 minutes to complete, even if you are in a fail grp? It is run constantly, still. And yes again, it pops consistantly with little to no wait time.
The people who do not participate don't matter for this statistic, since they are not joining advanced queues, they likely don't join elite queues.
All you have shown about being knowledgeable about the game is your "feelings". Your ego is so inflated, you can't even accept numbers if they contradict you.
What exactly are you knowledgeable about? You just claim to know stuff up to this point. Having an ego is not knowledge, you seem to confuse them.
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
No, you are incapable of understanding basic statistical modeling principles. ISA sample size is perfectly valid, and the method of picking a single sample as a basis is quite common in statistical analasys. Further, the graph clearly shows that it is not biased towards DPSers, since the vast majority of players in that graph did not even reach a 20k benchmark. If it were only DPSers represented in that graph the peak would be somewhere much higher, probably around 40-50k DPS, since that's what the average DPS channel user is capable.
Also, the ISA queue is played by a huge percentage of the community every day, not only DPSers as you claim...go and do 10 runs and count the people doing less that 15k...they are the vast majority. You claimed to have reasons, why people do not join ISA queues anymore, but the fact that one pops every 20 seconds on average contradicts that.
So, you can choose to ignore all this, which you still do, it doesn't matter, to me or the community as a whole. The data, while not 100% accurate indicates a trend, that the vast majority of the community that does group content (the single player community doesn't count anyway) is far from fit for elite content.
You really are clueless ain't ya. The bronze channel requires only 10k DPS in ISA. You know...what the vast majority of the DPS league is in. The 40-50k mark are SILVER members of the DPS league...and certainly not the average DPS channel user.
YOU claim that ISA has more than DPS players because it pops often. I am claiming that it does NOT pop every 20 seconds because I have nights where it doesn't pop before my red alerts goes off cooldown and I never even get to play the bloody map. Hell, it hasn't popped in 20 seconds since s13 started for me. You want to know what the average of DPS of the group content player is? Than use the bloody red alerts. They are the ONLY maps that are constantly popping and the ONLY maps that would give you an accurate view of the average playerbase. As for players in ISA doing less than 15k...yeah...and I am saying those people ARE THE DPS CHASERS TOO YOU BLOODY MORON. You saying that since they are only doing 15k, they ain't chasing DPS is nonsense. First of all, 10-15k is enough for a DPS channel. That range is also enough to obliterate normal content in this game...and in story mode that is enough to wipe out the enemies other than dreads in seconds. Yeah, you reach this level and guess what sweetie, you are starting to chase DPS.
And seriously STOP WITH THE STRAWMAN. NOBODY is claiming that the average player in STO is elite ready. NOBODY...not even the OP who is asking for this. What some of us are claiming is that the average player and elite will be worse...oh so much worse than what the data in ISA is giving out going by ancedotal evidence in the two maps that actually show what the average STO player is like...and that is the borg and tholian RA where you constantly run into players who can't even take on a bunch of spheres and probes alone. Where if I don't join in, they (as in the 4 other players in the group) can't even do enough DPS to out pace the regen of the tholian dreads or the borg pickle. Yes...we all agree that the average player in STO is not even remotely elite ready. Why do you even keep bring this up?!? To make yourself feel smart? Well...it doesn't. All it does is make you stupid for using a logical fallicy over and over again.
To me, you are clueless... your utter ignorance for the data presented into your face can only be explained by your inflated ego. You view your own gutfeeling as more relevant as hard data, your explanations are subjective and flat out wrong. Your claims also show a complete ignorance of statistical analasys.
If a 15k dps build is "DPS chasing" you are delusional to say the least...but ofcourse it fits your opinion, and your "gut feeling" so you see it as fact.
sorry, but I'm not going down on your level and call you names, just because you are limited in your comprehension. If to you a 15k dps build means the player is a dps chaser, so be it...just shows you have zero knowledge of the game you seem to play.
And yes, ISA pops every 20 seconds...even less on high traffic days, maybe not for you, because you are certainly "special"
Right...and this is your example of not calling names. Right.... At least I admit what I am...you on the other hand have shown once again how clueless you actually are. You can't even realize that you are down at my level. Hell even lower since you don't even realize you are down here and pretend to be above it all. And I am NOT ignoring hard data since I admit that those ISA data is perfectly valid for seeing what is happening in ISA. I am saying that it can not be applied to the general population...which is basic statistical modeling principles. But since you are so utterly clueless that you think the data model from one queue...one that is ADVANCED no less to EVERYONE in STO, I really can't help you. I'm sorry...but you have crossed over from being ignorant into stupid land and I can't fix stupid.
As for why 15k is DPS chasing levels...I gave you perfectly good reason why it is. You have yet to actually give reason why it isn't other than you said so and to insult me. So yeah...who is the one going by gut feeling here? It ain't me. I have valid reasons that you have yet to refute.
And I have shown quite well that I know a lot about this game. You have shown none so far...and continue to do so.
As for ISA popping ever 20 seconds...not even the queue system agrees with you on that. So if it does pop for YOU every 20 seconds, you are the special one. The rest of us...yeah...not so much. For us mere mortals, we have to wait minutes outside of peek hours on weekends. At midnight on a tuesday, you ain't getting in at all.
Why you still refuse that ISA is a benchmark for the community as a large still baffles me...
No one has denied that ISA is a benchmark for the DPS community.
No one has denied that parses of ISA are used to give an idea of one's DPS output.
What has been denied, and utterly refuted to the point of it not even being a debatable point, is the ludicrous notion that parses of ISA give any idea of the average of the playerbase as a whole.
You know this, you just pretend that you don't.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
No, you are incapable of understanding basic statistical modeling principles. ISA sample size is perfectly valid, and the method of picking a single sample as a basis is quite common in statistical analasys. Further, the graph clearly shows that it is not biased towards DPSers, since the vast majority of players in that graph did not even reach a 20k benchmark. If it were only DPSers represented in that graph the peak would be somewhere much higher, probably around 40-50k DPS, since that's what the average DPS channel user is capable.
Also, the ISA queue is played by a huge percentage of the community every day, not only DPSers as you claim...go and do 10 runs and count the people doing less that 15k...they are the vast majority. You claimed to have reasons, why people do not join ISA queues anymore, but the fact that one pops every 20 seconds on average contradicts that.
So, you can choose to ignore all this, which you still do, it doesn't matter, to me or the community as a whole. The data, while not 100% accurate indicates a trend, that the vast majority of the community that does group content (the single player community doesn't count anyway) is far from fit for elite content.
You really are clueless ain't ya. The bronze channel requires only 10k DPS in ISA. You know...what the vast majority of the DPS league is in. The 40-50k mark are SILVER members of the DPS league...and certainly not the average DPS channel user.
YOU claim that ISA has more than DPS players because it pops often. I am claiming that it does NOT pop every 20 seconds because I have nights where it doesn't pop before my red alerts goes off cooldown and I never even get to play the bloody map. Hell, it hasn't popped in 20 seconds since s13 started for me. You want to know what the average of DPS of the group content player is? Than use the bloody red alerts. They are the ONLY maps that are constantly popping and the ONLY maps that would give you an accurate view of the average playerbase. As for players in ISA doing less than 15k...yeah...and I am saying those people ARE THE DPS CHASERS TOO YOU BLOODY MORON. You saying that since they are only doing 15k, they ain't chasing DPS is nonsense. First of all, 10-15k is enough for a DPS channel. That range is also enough to obliterate normal content in this game...and in story mode that is enough to wipe out the enemies other than dreads in seconds. Yeah, you reach this level and guess what sweetie, you are starting to chase DPS.
And seriously STOP WITH THE STRAWMAN. NOBODY is claiming that the average player in STO is elite ready. NOBODY...not even the OP who is asking for this. What some of us are claiming is that the average player and elite will be worse...oh so much worse than what the data in ISA is giving out going by ancedotal evidence in the two maps that actually show what the average STO player is like...and that is the borg and tholian RA where you constantly run into players who can't even take on a bunch of spheres and probes alone. Where if I don't join in, they (as in the 4 other players in the group) can't even do enough DPS to out pace the regen of the tholian dreads or the borg pickle. Yes...we all agree that the average player in STO is not even remotely elite ready. Why do you even keep bring this up?!? To make yourself feel smart? Well...it doesn't. All it does is make you stupid for using a logical fallicy over and over again.
To me, you are clueless... your utter ignorance for the data presented into your face can only be explained by your inflated ego. You view your own gutfeeling as more relevant as hard data, your explanations are subjective and flat out wrong. Your claims also show a complete ignorance of statistical analasys.
If a 15k dps build is "DPS chasing" you are delusional to say the least...but ofcourse it fits your opinion, and your "gut feeling" so you see it as fact.
sorry, but I'm not going down on your level and call you names, just because you are limited in your comprehension. If to you a 15k dps build means the player is a dps chaser, so be it...just shows you have zero knowledge of the game you seem to play.
And yes, ISA pops every 20 seconds...even less on high traffic days, maybe not for you, because you are certainly "special"
Right...and this is your example of not calling names. Right.... At least I admit what I am...you on the other hand have shown once again how clueless you actually are. You can't even realize that you are down at my level. Hell even lower since you don't even realize you are down here and pretend to be above it all. And I am NOT ignoring hard data since I admit that those ISA data is perfectly valid for seeing what is happening in ISA. I am saying that it can not be applied to the general population...which is basic statistical modeling principles. But since you are so utterly clueless that you think the data model from one queue...one that is ADVANCED no less to EVERYONE in STO, I really can't help you. I'm sorry...but you have crossed over from being ignorant into stupid land and I can't fix stupid.
As for why 15k is DPS chasing levels...I gave you perfectly good reason why it is. You have yet to actually give reason why it isn't other than you said so and to insult me. So yeah...who is the one going by gut feeling here? It ain't me. I have valid reasons that you have yet to refute.
And I have shown quite well that I know a lot about this game. You have shown none so far...and continue to do so.
As for ISA popping ever 20 seconds...not even the queue system agrees with you on that. So if it does pop for YOU every 20 seconds, you are the special one. The rest of us...yeah...not so much. For us mere mortals, we have to wait minutes outside of peek hours on weekends. At midnight on a tuesday, you ain't getting in at all.
Why you still refuse that ISA is a benchmark for the community as a large still baffles me...
No one has denied that ISA is a benchmark for the DPS community.
No one has denied that parses of ISA are used to give an idea of one's DPS output.
What has been denied, and utterly refuted to the point of it not even being a debatable point, is the ludicrous notion that parses of ISA give any idea of the average of the playerbase as a whole.
You know this, you just pretend that you don't.
Either you can't read or you are ignorant on purpose...
the parses from which the graph was made, while done by the DPS community also inculdes NONE DPSers, as the peak in the graph clearly indicates. ISA is valid for another reason, which is, that it is one of only two actually populated advanced queues...even the normal IS, is less populated...you can go check this at this very moment in the game, or a time of your choosing.
To assume, which coldnapalm, and you do, that ISA queue is mostly populated by DPSer and therefore the data is invalid is without merit, an assumption based on personal experience at best. Infact the graph itself shows that the majority of people in the graph are nowhere near "DPSers". And coldnapalm's assumption that 15k dps already counts as DPSer, only shows that his knowledge of the game seems to be 4 years old. Back then, those numbers were high...
The parses and the subsequent graph from that data infact give a pretty adequate picture of the average DPS of the playerbase, who regularely do STFs. Ofcourse somebody who never does group content in STO has not been and never will be measured. But those people are ultimately irrelevant, since if they do not do group content they are unlikely to join elite content.
Also, concerning how statistics work: A sample is a completely valid tool in statistical analasys.
I know, you and coldnapalm will ignore this again, or not even read it for whatever reason. You can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink, so they say.
Fyi: just did 2 ISA inbetween posts...popt after 25 seconds and 35 seconds, parses show people with 60k, down to 12k...
2 days ago I did another 3 ISA, similar picture...even had an optional fail, because apparently not only DPSers seem to run this STF.
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> sisteric wrote: »
>
>
> I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
>
>
>
>
> O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yep
Since my entire point and conversation has strictly been about the data, and not the community, I don't know anything about any arrogance. And since I continued to talk about the data, I pointed out that I don't see how arrogance applies to the data or even was relevant to what I have been saying. The attitude of population is just not relevant to what I am talking about. Which is why I wrote what I wrote. Read completely in context and looked at strictly from my points, I really could not connect where arrogance entered into a discussion about data, statistics and relevance.
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
There's a lot of it about these days... Lead in the drinking-water, perhaps
All this proved is that you did not read what I wrote and think on it, but instead read something and knee-jerked reacted in a negative manner. And then proceeded to cast dispersion in my direction rather than actually continue a purely logical discussion about the basics of statistics and how it applies to this topic. And then the next person joining the bandwagon by giving a poorly construed reason with a simple and failed attempt of humor is not any better.
Emotions and attitudes are not a part of statistics, nor should it be used when discussing it either. And dispersion other negative comments have no place either.
Loathe as I am to say this, I don't know why ISA is being used as some kind of benchmark here anyway.
I mean, firstly, it is an ADVANCED queue. This was a thread about ELITE content.
Secondly, DPS achieved in ISA only translates to ISA. I know players who score high DPS in ISA but get completely obliterated in Korfez. I know of players who are great at ISA but struggle with GtGA. Awesome DPS in ISA doesn’t equate to ‘awesome at everything’. It just doesn’t.
Agreed. Just because you can get a High DPS in ISA doesn't mean you will get a HIGH DPS anywhere else. But for a method to make some comparison as a talking point, ISA was organically settled upon as a way to make valid comparisons to push conversation further along in a manner that all people can relate and understand in the same way.
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
No, you are incapable of understanding basic statistical modeling principles. ISA sample size is perfectly valid, and the method of picking a single sample as a basis is quite common in statistical analasys. Further, the graph clearly shows that it is not biased towards DPSers, since the vast majority of players in that graph did not even reach a 20k benchmark. If it were only DPSers represented in that graph the peak would be somewhere much higher, probably around 40-50k DPS, since that's what the average DPS channel user is capable.
Also, the ISA queue is played by a huge percentage of the community every day, not only DPSers as you claim...go and do 10 runs and count the people doing less that 15k...they are the vast majority. You claimed to have reasons, why people do not join ISA queues anymore, but the fact that one pops every 20 seconds on average contradicts that.
So, you can choose to ignore all this, which you still do, it doesn't matter, to me or the community as a whole. The data, while not 100% accurate indicates a trend, that the vast majority of the community that does group content (the single player community doesn't count anyway) is far from fit for elite content.
You really are clueless ain't ya. The bronze channel requires only 10k DPS in ISA. You know...what the vast majority of the DPS league is in. The 40-50k mark are SILVER members of the DPS league...and certainly not the average DPS channel user.
YOU claim that ISA has more than DPS players because it pops often. I am claiming that it does NOT pop every 20 seconds because I have nights where it doesn't pop before my red alerts goes off cooldown and I never even get to play the bloody map. Hell, it hasn't popped in 20 seconds since s13 started for me. You want to know what the average of DPS of the group content player is? Than use the bloody red alerts. They are the ONLY maps that are constantly popping and the ONLY maps that would give you an accurate view of the average playerbase. As for players in ISA doing less than 15k...yeah...and I am saying those people ARE THE DPS CHASERS TOO YOU BLOODY MORON. You saying that since they are only doing 15k, they ain't chasing DPS is nonsense. First of all, 10-15k is enough for a DPS channel. That range is also enough to obliterate normal content in this game...and in story mode that is enough to wipe out the enemies other than dreads in seconds. Yeah, you reach this level and guess what sweetie, you are starting to chase DPS.
And seriously STOP WITH THE STRAWMAN. NOBODY is claiming that the average player in STO is elite ready. NOBODY...not even the OP who is asking for this. What some of us are claiming is that the average player and elite will be worse...oh so much worse than what the data in ISA is giving out going by ancedotal evidence in the two maps that actually show what the average STO player is like...and that is the borg and tholian RA where you constantly run into players who can't even take on a bunch of spheres and probes alone. Where if I don't join in, they (as in the 4 other players in the group) can't even do enough DPS to out pace the regen of the tholian dreads or the borg pickle. Yes...we all agree that the average player in STO is not even remotely elite ready. Why do you even keep bring this up?!? To make yourself feel smart? Well...it doesn't. All it does is make you stupid for using a logical fallicy over and over again.
To me, you are clueless... your utter ignorance for the data presented into your face can only be explained by your inflated ego. You view your own gutfeeling as more relevant as hard data, your explanations are subjective and flat out wrong. Your claims also show a complete ignorance of statistical analasys.
If a 15k dps build is "DPS chasing" you are delusional to say the least...but ofcourse it fits your opinion, and your "gut feeling" so you see it as fact.
sorry, but I'm not going down on your level and call you names, just because you are limited in your comprehension. If to you a 15k dps build means the player is a dps chaser, so be it...just shows you have zero knowledge of the game you seem to play.
And yes, ISA pops every 20 seconds...even less on high traffic days, maybe not for you, because you are certainly "special"
Right...and this is your example of not calling names. Right.... At least I admit what I am...you on the other hand have shown once again how clueless you actually are. You can't even realize that you are down at my level. Hell even lower since you don't even realize you are down here and pretend to be above it all. And I am NOT ignoring hard data since I admit that those ISA data is perfectly valid for seeing what is happening in ISA. I am saying that it can not be applied to the general population...which is basic statistical modeling principles. But since you are so utterly clueless that you think the data model from one queue...one that is ADVANCED no less to EVERYONE in STO, I really can't help you. I'm sorry...but you have crossed over from being ignorant into stupid land and I can't fix stupid.
As for why 15k is DPS chasing levels...I gave you perfectly good reason why it is. You have yet to actually give reason why it isn't other than you said so and to insult me. So yeah...who is the one going by gut feeling here? It ain't me. I have valid reasons that you have yet to refute.
And I have shown quite well that I know a lot about this game. You have shown none so far...and continue to do so.
As for ISA popping ever 20 seconds...not even the queue system agrees with you on that. So if it does pop for YOU every 20 seconds, you are the special one. The rest of us...yeah...not so much. For us mere mortals, we have to wait minutes outside of peek hours on weekends. At midnight on a tuesday, you ain't getting in at all.
Why you still refuse that ISA is a benchmark for the community as a large still baffles me...
No one has denied that ISA is a benchmark for the DPS community.
No one has denied that parses of ISA are used to give an idea of one's DPS output.
What has been denied, and utterly refuted to the point of it not even being a debatable point, is the ludicrous notion that parses of ISA give any idea of the average of the playerbase as a whole.
You know this, you just pretend that you don't.
Either you can't read or you are ignorant on purpose...
the parses from which the graph was made, while done by the DPS community also inculdes NONE DPSers, as the peak in the graph clearly indicates. ISA is valid for another reason, which is, that it is one of only two actually populated advanced queues...even the normal IS, is less populated...you can go check this at this very moment in the game, or a time of your choosing.
To assume, which coldnapalm, and you do, that ISA queue is mostly populated by DPSer and therefore the data is invalid is without merit, an assumption based on personal experience at best. Infact the graph itself shows that the majority of people in the graph are nowhere near "DPSers". And coldnapalm's assumption that 15k dps already counts as DPSer, only shows that his knowledge of the game seems to be 4 years old. Back then, those numbers were high...
The parses and the subsequent graph from that data infact give a pretty adequate picture of the average DPS of the playerbase, who regularely do STFs. Ofcourse somebody who never does group content in STO has not been and never will be measured. But those people are ultimately irrelevant, since if they do not do group content they are unlikely to join elite content.
Also, concerning how statistics work: A sample is a completely valid tool in statistical analasys.
I know, you and coldnapalm will ignore this again, or not even read it for whatever reason. You can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink, so they say.
Fyi: just did 2 ISA inbetween posts...popt after 25 seconds and 35 seconds, parses show people with 60k, down to 12k...
2 days ago I did another 3 ISA, similar picture...even had an optional fail, because apparently not only DPSers seem to run this STF.
Yawn.
Everything post-bold = doubleplusyawn.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
There's a lot of it about these days... Lead in the drinking-water, perhaps
All this proved is that you did not read what I wrote and think on it, but instead read something and knee-jerked reacted in a negative manner. And then proceeded to cast dispersion in my direction rather than actually continue a purely logical discussion about the basics of statistics and how it applies to this topic. And then the next person joining the bandwagon by giving a poorly construed reason with a simple and failed attempt of humor is not any better.
Emotions and attitudes are not a part of statistics, nor should it be used when discussing it either. And dispersion other negative comments have no place either.
Oh dear, someone's been #Triggered
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
There's a lot of it about these days... Lead in the drinking-water, perhaps
All this proved is that you did not read what I wrote and think on it, but instead read something and knee-jerked reacted in a negative manner. And then proceeded to cast dispersion in my direction rather than actually continue a purely logical discussion about the basics of statistics and how it applies to this topic. And then the next person joining the bandwagon by giving a poorly construed reason with a simple and failed attempt of humor is not any better.
Emotions and attitudes are not a part of statistics, nor should it be used when discussing it either. And dispersion other negative comments have no place either.
Oh dear, someone's been #Triggered
Triggered? I am not even annoyed. Amused maybe. And now a little confused on how you got triggered from what I wrote. Unless you are referring to yourself.
The parses and the subsequent graph from that data infact give a pretty adequate picture of the average DPS of the playerbase, who regularely do STFs. Ofcourse somebody who never does group content in STO has not been and never will be measured. But those people are ultimately irrelevant, since if they do not do group content they are unlikely to join elite content.
"playerbase"
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
There's a lot of it about these days... Lead in the drinking-water, perhaps
All this proved is that you did not read what I wrote and think on it, but instead read something and knee-jerked reacted in a negative manner. And then proceeded to cast dispersion in my direction rather than actually continue a purely logical discussion about the basics of statistics and how it applies to this topic. And then the next person joining the bandwagon by giving a poorly construed reason with a simple and failed attempt of humor is not any better.
Emotions and attitudes are not a part of statistics, nor should it be used when discussing it either. And dispersion other negative comments have no place either.
Oh dear, someone's been #Triggered
Triggered? I am not even annoyed. Amused maybe. And now a little confused on how you got triggered from what I wrote. Unless you are referring to yourself.
...read something and knee-jerked reacted in a negative manner. And then proceeded to cast dispersion in my direction rather than actually continue a purely logical discussion about the basics of statistics and how it applies to this topic. And then the next person joining the bandwagon by giving a poorly construed reason with a simple and failed attempt of humor is not any better.
Emotions and attitudes are not a part of statistics, nor should it be used when discussing it either. And dispersion other negative comments have no place either.
...reeks of triggered projection.
I agree, that emotions and attitudes are not a part of statistics, but to say 'other negative comments have no place either': Don't tone-police. The amount - or rather abundant lack of - critical thinking in general these days (substituted for egotistical projection and a big dose of Dunning-Kruger Effect) is abysmal, and reflects a massive (deliberate or otherwise) dumbing-down of society.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Well, this being the internet and an entirely written form of communication means that its just about impossible to tell how someone is really feeling unless the poster goes out of their way to make it abundantly clear or actually tells you what they're feeling.
Well, this being the internet and an entirely written form of communication means that its just about impossible to tell how someone is really feeling unless the poster goes out of their way to make it abundantly clear or actually tells you what they're feeling.
Well, this being the internet and an entirely written form of communication means that its just about impossible to tell how someone is really feeling unless the poster goes out of their way to make it abundantly clear or actually tells you what they're feeling.
That's why I read everyone's comments as being even toned, with no emotional inflections unless indicted by capitalization, exclamations or direct statements of feelings to apply.
There are not "Elite" players. It is just a game, after all. Some people make a big fuss how they know a bit more about it than others, and want to feel superior about it, but in the end, it is JUST A GAME.
Oh! Okay, cool, maybe I've been wrong about every single experience I've ever had in a Elite PUG. Maybe I was just unlucky. It's not impossible. This guy IS basically saying "Hey, come play with us, we're not so bad!" - and that's a good message, surely.
The parses and the subsequent graph from that data infact give a pretty adequate picture of the average DPS of the playerbase, who regularely do STFs. Ofcourse somebody who never does group content in STO has not been and never will be measured. But those people are ultimately irrelevant, since if they do not do group content they are unlikely to join elite content.
"playerbase"
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I think the passage you quoted clearly defines what I mean by playerbase... sure there are those that do not participate in any group content, but those people are never relevant for group content metrics anyway. Group content won't be designed around their abilities or needs, since they don't participate, ergo become irrelevant. It is even hard to tell how much of the playerbase these people are, and judging from what I've seen in ISA pugs, there are the occasional single players...as I mentioned before, this specific queue is one of the most, if not even the most frequented queues in STO. Has been for years and still is.
It's all there if you cared to actually comprehensively read my comments. Rare trait theses days.
The parses and the subsequent graph from that data infact give a pretty adequate picture of the average DPS of the playerbase, who regularely do STFs. Ofcourse somebody who never does group content in STO has not been and never will be measured. But those people are ultimately irrelevant, since if they do not do group content they are unlikely to join elite content.
"playerbase"
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I think the passage you quoted clearly defines what I mean by playerbase... sure there are those that do not participate in any group content, but those people are never relevant for group content metrics anyway. Group content won't be designed around their abilities or needs, since they don't participate, ergo become irrelevant. It is even hard to tell how much of the playerbase these people are, and judging from what I've seen in ISA pugs, there are the occasional single players...as I mentioned before, this specific queue is one of the most, if not even the most frequented queues in STO. Has been for years and still is.
It's all there if you cared to actually comprehensively read my comments. Rare trait theses days.
Umm ISA is only one of the most played maps because is one the 4 maps that are played at all these days...and it's the LEAST popular of those 4. If you want to use the most played as a point for data modeling of the playerbase who plays group content, than you need to look at borg RA...which pops at least 20x more often than ISA. And yes, even the DPS people pop in here...because this one and the tholian RA are the only queues that pop without a wait anymore. You keep saying things that just ain't true. And yes ISA (or E for pre DR) was the most popular queue for a while in the past...but it is not so anymore...and hasn't been for a long while now. So stop LYING at this point to try and prove your point. Anyone can queue up for ISA and borg RA and know what a load of crock your entire arguement is.
So you agree that it is one of the most played by a huge variety of players, not only DPSers?
Borg RA is not really measurable because the data of people too far away won't be read, that's why it falls through as a measurable queue. Even THolian RA has this problem.
CCA also gives very distorted data because of the kinetic vulnerability and the invulnerability phases of the entity.
So 2 (even 3) out of 4 can't really be measured, that leaves ISA as the most practical to measure.
ISA, CCA as well as RAs basically have no wait time...they are all well within 1 min wait time. All 4 normally pop within seconds anyway.
So you call me a liar for saying that ISA is one of the most popular queues, while you yourself aknowledge it as true...interesting. Remember, you franticly disputed that, saying mostly DPSer do them these days. Couldn't be further form the truth ... as the graph itself showed, btw. Oh, I forgot, to you a 15k dps build is already a dps "chaser" ... yeah you do live in pre DR times still, probably the reason you bring it up that often.
You do realize that for ISA there is the most data available, hence it is more accurate as a measurement tool than any RA, appart from the borg RA being immeasurable.
So stop being so ignorant and accept the fact that the ISA measurement is pretty accurate.
Also, an advice on your way of arguing, stop calling people liars and idiots just because you fail to understand or fail to dispute their arguments. You must be quite a troubled mind with an ego bigger than a solar system. You are basically calling anybody that challenges your unfounded opinions every name in the book, why you are still not banned from this froum is a mystery to me. Your line of argumentation is extremely flawed and lacks consistancy. What exactly do you mean by saying: The least popular of the 4 most popular queues? To me they all pop within seconds. It seems, since it is your least favourite, you automatically assume everybody else doesn't like it. Typical egocentric viewpoint, you might want to reflect on that.
Well, this thread just isn't getting any better...
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Comments
Thanks for the pointers. If I feel the need at least I have a better idea of what I need to do...
These are the voyages of the U.S.S. Pioneer...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Why you still refuse that ISA is a benchmark for the community as a large still baffles me...you do realize that it is the entry level advanced queue?
You do realize that it has no fail condition and it takes under 10 minutes to complete, even if you are in a fail grp? It is run constantly, still. And yes again, it pops consistantly with little to no wait time.
The people who do not participate don't matter for this statistic, since they are not joining advanced queues, they likely don't join elite queues.
All you have shown about being knowledgeable about the game is your "feelings". Your ego is so inflated, you can't even accept numbers if they contradict you.
What exactly are you knowledgeable about? You just claim to know stuff up to this point. Having an ego is not knowledge, you seem to confuse them.
No one has denied that parses of ISA are used to give an idea of one's DPS output.
What has been denied, and utterly refuted to the point of it not even being a debatable point, is the ludicrous notion that parses of ISA give any idea of the average of the playerbase as a whole.
You know this, you just pretend that you don't.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
My character Tsin'xing
Either you can't read or you are ignorant on purpose...
the parses from which the graph was made, while done by the DPS community also inculdes NONE DPSers, as the peak in the graph clearly indicates. ISA is valid for another reason, which is, that it is one of only two actually populated advanced queues...even the normal IS, is less populated...you can go check this at this very moment in the game, or a time of your choosing.
To assume, which coldnapalm, and you do, that ISA queue is mostly populated by DPSer and therefore the data is invalid is without merit, an assumption based on personal experience at best. Infact the graph itself shows that the majority of people in the graph are nowhere near "DPSers". And coldnapalm's assumption that 15k dps already counts as DPSer, only shows that his knowledge of the game seems to be 4 years old. Back then, those numbers were high...
The parses and the subsequent graph from that data infact give a pretty adequate picture of the average DPS of the playerbase, who regularely do STFs. Ofcourse somebody who never does group content in STO has not been and never will be measured. But those people are ultimately irrelevant, since if they do not do group content they are unlikely to join elite content.
Also, concerning how statistics work: A sample is a completely valid tool in statistical analasys.
I know, you and coldnapalm will ignore this again, or not even read it for whatever reason. You can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink, so they say.
Fyi: just did 2 ISA inbetween posts...popt after 25 seconds and 35 seconds, parses show people with 60k, down to 12k...
2 days ago I did another 3 ISA, similar picture...even had an optional fail, because apparently not only DPSers seem to run this STF.
Since my entire point and conversation has strictly been about the data, and not the community, I don't know anything about any arrogance. And since I continued to talk about the data, I pointed out that I don't see how arrogance applies to the data or even was relevant to what I have been saying. The attitude of population is just not relevant to what I am talking about. Which is why I wrote what I wrote. Read completely in context and looked at strictly from my points, I really could not connect where arrogance entered into a discussion about data, statistics and relevance.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
All this proved is that you did not read what I wrote and think on it, but instead read something and knee-jerked reacted in a negative manner. And then proceeded to cast dispersion in my direction rather than actually continue a purely logical discussion about the basics of statistics and how it applies to this topic. And then the next person joining the bandwagon by giving a poorly construed reason with a simple and failed attempt of humor is not any better.
Emotions and attitudes are not a part of statistics, nor should it be used when discussing it either. And dispersion other negative comments have no place either.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Agreed. Just because you can get a High DPS in ISA doesn't mean you will get a HIGH DPS anywhere else. But for a method to make some comparison as a talking point, ISA was organically settled upon as a way to make valid comparisons to push conversation further along in a manner that all people can relate and understand in the same way.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Everything post-bold = doubleplusyawn.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
"playerbase"
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
...reeks of triggered projection.
I agree, that emotions and attitudes are not a part of statistics, but to say 'other negative comments have no place either': Don't tone-police. The amount - or rather abundant lack of - critical thinking in general these days (substituted for egotistical projection and a big dose of Dunning-Kruger Effect) is abysmal, and reflects a massive (deliberate or otherwise) dumbing-down of society.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
That's why I read everyone's comments as being even toned, with no emotional inflections unless indicted by capitalization, exclamations or direct statements of feelings to apply.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Oh! Okay, cool, maybe I've been wrong about every single experience I've ever had in a Elite PUG. Maybe I was just unlucky. It's not impossible. This guy IS basically saying "Hey, come play with us, we're not so bad!" - and that's a good message, surely.
*reads thread*
I am afraid I must decline your generous offer.
I think the passage you quoted clearly defines what I mean by playerbase... sure there are those that do not participate in any group content, but those people are never relevant for group content metrics anyway. Group content won't be designed around their abilities or needs, since they don't participate, ergo become irrelevant. It is even hard to tell how much of the playerbase these people are, and judging from what I've seen in ISA pugs, there are the occasional single players...as I mentioned before, this specific queue is one of the most, if not even the most frequented queues in STO. Has been for years and still is.
It's all there if you cared to actually comprehensively read my comments. Rare trait theses days.
So you agree that it is one of the most played by a huge variety of players, not only DPSers?
Borg RA is not really measurable because the data of people too far away won't be read, that's why it falls through as a measurable queue. Even THolian RA has this problem.
CCA also gives very distorted data because of the kinetic vulnerability and the invulnerability phases of the entity.
So 2 (even 3) out of 4 can't really be measured, that leaves ISA as the most practical to measure.
ISA, CCA as well as RAs basically have no wait time...they are all well within 1 min wait time. All 4 normally pop within seconds anyway.
So you call me a liar for saying that ISA is one of the most popular queues, while you yourself aknowledge it as true...interesting. Remember, you franticly disputed that, saying mostly DPSer do them these days. Couldn't be further form the truth ... as the graph itself showed, btw. Oh, I forgot, to you a 15k dps build is already a dps "chaser" ... yeah you do live in pre DR times still, probably the reason you bring it up that often.
You do realize that for ISA there is the most data available, hence it is more accurate as a measurement tool than any RA, appart from the borg RA being immeasurable.
So stop being so ignorant and accept the fact that the ISA measurement is pretty accurate.
Also, an advice on your way of arguing, stop calling people liars and idiots just because you fail to understand or fail to dispute their arguments. You must be quite a troubled mind with an ego bigger than a solar system. You are basically calling anybody that challenges your unfounded opinions every name in the book, why you are still not banned from this froum is a mystery to me. Your line of argumentation is extremely flawed and lacks consistancy. What exactly do you mean by saying: The least popular of the 4 most popular queues? To me they all pop within seconds. It seems, since it is your least favourite, you automatically assume everybody else doesn't like it. Typical egocentric viewpoint, you might want to reflect on that.
and GZ on the name calling again, really shows that you have run out of valid arguments. Don't you feel at least a little embarrassed when you talk?
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