So you came into a thread where none of what you wrote was in any way warranted, and you understood that, but wrote it anyway. In other words, you were trolling. And then you complain that I fell for it.
Bravo.
This is my last post to you. My first post was on topic. I detailed why I choose not to play elite content. You then chose to go off topic for some odd reason. I am anything but a troll, sir. Still, my first post still stands and it was on topic.
But you've been very amusing in your attempts to talk people into elite queues by telling them that it doesn't matter how many times they blow up doing them.
Edit...It does matter how much I blow up doing anything. As I said in my first post, I don't come to STO to test how much I can take or dish out, I come here to have fun. And to me, elite content is not fun.
Post edited by echatty on
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
As for the data given...the issue is that the way the sample is collected is flawed for a general population view. It takes a view of a map that is favored by DPS chasers. It is only collecting from a data sample that DPS chasers comes in contact with. It is not what the average playerbase looks like. It COULD be...but if it was, it would only be so by shear coincedence and not because of the data model. The data model basically does not apply. Going well it's the ONLY data so we will apply it to EVERYTHING is not how you do these things. Might wanna learn some basic statistical modeling before you claim to be on the side of global climate change scientists and calling those who have issue with what you did because it breaks so many statistical modeling rules that it isn't even funny the deniers who claim because I said so. We actually have math and logic and science on our side. You basically are saying it is so because we have no other data so damn everything else. That ain't far off from the data is wrong because it doesn't fit my own observation (which BTW is a data point).
The only thing I can agree in this paragraph is the fact that the data is collected around one queue, ISA. As such the data is relevant about the population that runs ISA only.
Also, it is the convention of the STO Community to use ISA as the basis of measuring your DPS output for comparison to others. And in that context, can be applied to the STO community at large as an overall measuring stick of DPS capability. The amount of data collected is enough to make it statistically relevant to this population.
No...it is a convention of the DPS community of STO to use ISA as the basis for measuring DPS output for comparison. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that the DPS community is the same as the STO community. And yes, such arogance is why there are people in the STO community who HATE the DPS community. In fact I refused to join the DPS channels for so long because of views like yours. I did end up joining because...well the queues are dead enough where I wanted more people to play with when I have more time to play...but seriously...no...just no. Your DPS centric map with your DPS centric data can not be used for any relivance for the general population of STO. The sad fact is...there is no hard data about what the average STO player does because cryptic ain't sharing and nobody bothered to try and collect a good sample of what people out there in STO does. That would mean we would need to collect data in RAs (which is the most common queues run by a LONG shot) along with getting DPS records from people playing mission on their own at random. Than we need to get a baseline of what the various DPS people do in those situations so we can get some sort of factor to adjust the data we get so we can convert the collected data into something we could compare to ISA DPS data. Without all of that, we really have no hard way to say what DPS the average STO player is doing beyond acedotal evidence provided by individuals. And going by ancedotal evidence, we have WAY more people saying that the STO population DPS on average is pretty low over those that say that it is pretty high...which 10+k DPS actually is since that is good enough for advanced queues.
Long before there were DPS Community or DPS channels, the STO community used Many queues to discuss their dps rating. Eventually ISA became the common queue referred to when comparing DPS. The DPS Communities, there are more than one, made it their standard way of comparison because of how it was discussed in the community prior to their formation.
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant. Data collected from this particular tool is not arrogant either. Nor is the tool arrogant. It collects all data from any run in which it was used regardless of any such persons inclusion in the DPS community. You don't even need to be part of the DPS community to have this software, use it and upload it. I do it all the time. And I am not a member of any of the DPS groups. I know that on the runs I have made in ISA, the majority of people I am pugging with are not members of the DPS community. The number of pugs I have run over the years is significant enough for me to statistically say you will more likely encounter a non-dpser than a DPS community member in any one ISA run. That fact applied to the chart really sets it up saying that there is more non-dps than DPS Community members in that chart represented. And that is what makes it statistically relevant for this discussion.
With out Cryptic sharing their collected data, this is the best available source of STO population DPS in regards to ISA as a measuring stick for DPS. Statistics is used purposely as the way to calculate the "hard facts" when data collection on an entire population is not possible. And ISA has been used as a standard for making that judgement since before any DPS Community or Channel was formed. There is nothing DPS Centric in my views, the data or the statistics generated from it. I see only you making these statements and so must question your ability to actually overcome your Ant-DPS Bias so that you can actually look at this Data as it actually is. Data.
Collecting data from RA's would be biased to those RA's, but would other has the same potential as this data set. Assuming that it included DPSer's and Non-DPSers. The software could be set to collect such data and collate in the same way that ISA is now. I would welcome it. The data will show a different curve because the content is different between the two. Timing, distance, spawning locations and all that will vary the dps of any person from RA and ISA.
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
But we ARE on topic. You wanted to have people joing public elite queues so they would pop. People have responded with WHY they are unwilling to do that for you. YOU responded by insulting anyone not playing your way. We have responded that is ANOTHER reason why some of the people don't like to do elite queues. Yes, people like YOU are another reason why elite queues are avoided. So...welcome to being part of the problem and not the solution. You trolled yourself. Nice job...been a while since I saw that happen. No seriously, you just showed off why people should NOT join elite queues...where there are people like you around.
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
There's a lot of it about these days... Lead in the drinking-water, perhaps
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
But we ARE on topic. You wanted to have people joing public elite queues so they would pop. People have responded with WHY they are unwilling to do that for you. YOU responded by insulting anyone not playing your way. We have responded that is ANOTHER reason why some of the people don't like to do elite queues. Yes, people like YOU are another reason why elite queues are avoided. So...welcome to being part of the problem and not the solution. You trolled yourself. Nice job...been a while since I saw that happen. No seriously, you just showed off why people should NOT join elite queues...where there are people like you around.
Well said.
Ditto what seaofsorrows said. Well said and thank you.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
No, you are incapable of understanding basic statistical modeling principles. ISA sample size is perfectly valid, and the method of picking a single sample as a basis is quite common in statistical analasys. Further, the graph clearly shows that it is not biased towards DPSers, since the vast majority of players in that graph did not even reach a 20k benchmark. If it were only DPSers represented in that graph the peak would be somewhere much higher, probably around 40-50k DPS, since that's what the average DPS channel user is capable.
Also, the ISA queue is played by a huge percentage of the community every day, not only DPSers as you claim...go and do 10 runs and count the people doing less that 15k...they are the vast majority. You claimed to have reasons, why people do not join ISA queues anymore, but the fact that one pops every 20 seconds on average contradicts that.
So, you can choose to ignore all this, which you still do, it doesn't matter, to me or the community as a whole. The data, while not 100% accurate indicates a trend, that the vast majority of the community that does group content (the single player community doesn't count anyway) is far from fit for elite content.
Well, in any case: If the Elite queues do not pop up more, then the only solution that remains for similar exoeriences is to use a "no skill challenge" type captain, and queue up on Normal - with the problem that someone with high end DPS will often **** up the experience.
"Life is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you are going to get" - Ancient Vulcan Proverb
It's a public queue. Some players are going to be below the minimum requirements. Some players will be above the minimum requirements. Only when there is a hard fail condition does performance really matter.
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
No, you are incapable of understanding basic statistical modeling principles. ISA sample size is perfectly valid, and the method of picking a single sample as a basis is quite common in statistical analasys. Further, the graph clearly shows that it is not biased towards DPSers, since the vast majority of players in that graph did not even reach a 20k benchmark. If it were only DPSers represented in that graph the peak would be somewhere much higher, probably around 40-50k DPS, since that's what the average DPS channel user is capable.
Also, the ISA queue is played by a huge percentage of the community every day, not only DPSers as you claim...go and do 10 runs and count the people doing less that 15k...they are the vast majority. You claimed to have reasons, why people do not join ISA queues anymore, but the fact that one pops every 20 seconds on average contradicts that.
So, you can choose to ignore all this, which you still do, it doesn't matter, to me or the community as a whole. The data, while not 100% accurate indicates a trend, that the vast majority of the community that does group content (the single player community doesn't count anyway) is far from fit for elite content.
You really are clueless ain't ya. The bronze channel requires only 10k DPS in ISA. You know...what the vast majority of the DPS league is in. The 40-50k mark are SILVER members of the DPS league...and certainly not the average DPS channel user.
YOU claim that ISA has more than DPS players because it pops often. I am claiming that it does NOT pop every 20 seconds because I have nights where it doesn't pop before my red alerts goes off cooldown and I never even get to play the bloody map. Hell, it hasn't popped in 20 seconds since s13 started for me. You want to know what the average of DPS of the group content player is? Than use the bloody red alerts. They are the ONLY maps that are constantly popping and the ONLY maps that would give you an accurate view of the average playerbase. As for players in ISA doing less than 15k...yeah...and I am saying those people ARE THE DPS CHASERS TOO YOU BLOODY MORON. You saying that since they are only doing 15k, they ain't chasing DPS is nonsense. First of all, 10-15k is enough for a DPS channel. That range is also enough to obliterate normal content in this game...and in story mode that is enough to wipe out the enemies other than dreads in seconds. Yeah, you reach this level and guess what sweetie, you are starting to chase DPS.
And seriously STOP WITH THE STRAWMAN. NOBODY is claiming that the average player in STO is elite ready. NOBODY...not even the OP who is asking for this. What some of us are claiming is that the average player and elite will be worse...oh so much worse than what the data in ISA is giving out going by ancedotal evidence in the two maps that actually show what the average STO player is like...and that is the borg and tholian RA where you constantly run into players who can't even take on a bunch of spheres and probes alone. Where if I don't join in, they (as in the 4 other players in the group) can't even do enough DPS to out pace the regen of the tholian dreads or the borg pickle. Yes...we all agree that the average player in STO is not even remotely elite ready. Why do you even keep bring this up?!? To make yourself feel smart? Well...it doesn't. All it does is make you stupid for using a logical fallicy over and over again.
To me, you are clueless... your utter ignorance for the data presented into your face can only be explained by your inflated ego. You view your own gutfeeling as more relevant as hard data, your explanations are subjective and flat out wrong. Your claims also show a complete ignorance of statistical analasys.
If a 15k dps build is "DPS chasing" you are delusional to say the least...but ofcourse it fits your opinion, and your "gut feeling" so you see it as fact.
sorry, but I'm not going down on your level and call you names, just because you are limited in your comprehension. If to you a 15k dps build means the player is a dps chaser, so be it...just shows you have zero knowledge of the game you seem to play.
And yes, ISA pops every 20 seconds...even less on high traffic days, maybe not for you, because you are certainly "special"
Loathe as I am to say this, I don't know why ISA is being used as some kind of benchmark here anyway.
I mean, firstly, it is an ADVANCED queue. This was a thread about ELITE content.
Secondly, DPS achieved in ISA only translates to ISA. I know players who score high DPS in ISA but get completely obliterated in Korfez. I know of players who are great at ISA but struggle with GtGA. Awesome DPS in ISA doesn’t equate to ‘awesome at everything’. It just doesn’t.
Yeah...I know. Claiming that the data from an ADVANCED map is what the average STO player is doing is laughable really. As for why ISA is the comparative benchmark, I guess it started before the DPS league to use it...but now, it is mostly because that is what the DPS league uses. If you want an easy comparitive number, you have to pick one map...so it's this one. And honestly for the DPS league, using an advanced map makes sense.
For the second aspect...very true. One of my highest DPS ships in ISA actually struggles a bit in tholian RA.
I suspect the answer is epeen. I seem to recall that most people parse higher in ISA than the other advanced queues, and that it started beck when they were "elite".
Whatever you guys are moaning about, 20k-30k is more than reachable in a pug as a casual, if you can do some reading and place some stuff properly on your ship. The amount of mission rewards that can greatly boost your dps is increased. You got mission rewards for escort builds, beam builds, disruptor builds, phaser builds, tetryon builds, polaron builds, exotic builds, tank builds and so on.
Crying about "I'm space-naked and I can't 10k dps in ISA" is hardly an argument. The best argument for them being under 10k is that they refuse to learn or to hit the buttons properly in space, even with +beam setups or dhc builds. Exotics kick over 10k easily if you can throw a GW and a DRB in ISA.
PvE curve has been slightly smudged down with the appearance of the new content and mission rewards catering to any type of build.
Failing elites out of carelessness has no excuse (Since you run around on the pve ground map and ignore the missions totally doesn't make it good).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Been a while since I've visited here... but this is an interesting topic.
For a time we played Elites on a daily basis. Even after S13. We won... We failed... But as the OP suggests, we didn't care, because it was fun. Now one by one, people I enjoyed playing these Elites with dropped off the game. Some, from boredom. Even more from the frustration of S13. A fair lot of them simply became busy with more important matters, like real life for instance.
I'm at the stage where I am bored with the game. I only log in daily for Admiralty now, because doing that is enough to get my daily dil cap done. I am waiting for something new and exciting to come into the game again.
Even if people log in and do Elites as the OP suggests, I probably wouldn't join in. I prefer playing Elites with people I know and have fun with. That way, even if we fail, I know everyone tried. See, I can take failure so long as I know that they tried. Failure due to incompetence is simply something that one can get tired of. And to risk sounding elitist, there is a lot of really clueless players in this game.
Your position in the DPS charts is also largely irrelevant. I've had more Elites succeed with "middling" DPS players than I've had succeed in DPS channel runs. Even ones organized in the higher tiers. ISA scores are misleading. A lot of the ISA scores are made with builds specifically tailored to that map. I've come across 50k+ or even 75k+ players who are suddenly out of their league in an Elite run simply because their ISA DPS won't translate into those maps.
Now of course, there are really good players out there. Players who do well over 100k and perform well in any map you drop them in. There are also players who are below 50k and do great in Elites.
It is true that due to the combat nature of the game, everyone will need to bring a certain amount of DPS to succeed in a map. However, they can also bring other things into the table and end up still being useful despite not being a DPS monster. I've seen people do less than 30k DPS in HSE but contribute so much to the team because they were dedicated healers and debuffers, allowing tanks to do their jobs and DPS builds to run amok safely.
The gist of it is, if you want to do Elites, do so. But please be mindful of the players around you. It is a multiplayer game and everyone impacts each other's "fun". Have your fun, but please don't step on other people's concept of "fun". Be a team player at the very least, and be useful to the group.
Yeah, like the BS of shooting at the Gateway when traveling from the left to right generators in ISA just to keep those DPS numbers up.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant.
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
Yeah...so he proves that not only does he not understand basic statistical modeling principles...but he doesn't understand basic English as well. So much educational failure...sigh....
No, you are incapable of understanding basic statistical modeling principles. ISA sample size is perfectly valid, and the method of picking a single sample as a basis is quite common in statistical analasys. Further, the graph clearly shows that it is not biased towards DPSers, since the vast majority of players in that graph did not even reach a 20k benchmark. If it were only DPSers represented in that graph the peak would be somewhere much higher, probably around 40-50k DPS, since that's what the average DPS channel user is capable.
Also, the ISA queue is played by a huge percentage of the community every day, not only DPSers as you claim...go and do 10 runs and count the people doing less that 15k...they are the vast majority. You claimed to have reasons, why people do not join ISA queues anymore, but the fact that one pops every 20 seconds on average contradicts that.
So, you can choose to ignore all this, which you still do, it doesn't matter, to me or the community as a whole. The data, while not 100% accurate indicates a trend, that the vast majority of the community that does group content (the single player community doesn't count anyway) is far from fit for elite content.
You really are clueless ain't ya. The bronze channel requires only 10k DPS in ISA. You know...what the vast majority of the DPS league is in. The 40-50k mark are SILVER members of the DPS league...and certainly not the average DPS channel user.
YOU claim that ISA has more than DPS players because it pops often. I am claiming that it does NOT pop every 20 seconds because I have nights where it doesn't pop before my red alerts goes off cooldown and I never even get to play the bloody map. Hell, it hasn't popped in 20 seconds since s13 started for me. You want to know what the average of DPS of the group content player is? Than use the bloody red alerts. They are the ONLY maps that are constantly popping and the ONLY maps that would give you an accurate view of the average playerbase. As for players in ISA doing less than 15k...yeah...and I am saying those people ARE THE DPS CHASERS TOO YOU BLOODY MORON. You saying that since they are only doing 15k, they ain't chasing DPS is nonsense. First of all, 10-15k is enough for a DPS channel. That range is also enough to obliterate normal content in this game...and in story mode that is enough to wipe out the enemies other than dreads in seconds. Yeah, you reach this level and guess what sweetie, you are starting to chase DPS.
And seriously STOP WITH THE STRAWMAN. NOBODY is claiming that the average player in STO is elite ready. NOBODY...not even the OP who is asking for this. What some of us are claiming is that the average player and elite will be worse...oh so much worse than what the data in ISA is giving out going by ancedotal evidence in the two maps that actually show what the average STO player is like...and that is the borg and tholian RA where you constantly run into players who can't even take on a bunch of spheres and probes alone. Where if I don't join in, they (as in the 4 other players in the group) can't even do enough DPS to out pace the regen of the tholian dreads or the borg pickle. Yes...we all agree that the average player in STO is not even remotely elite ready. Why do you even keep bring this up?!? To make yourself feel smart? Well...it doesn't. All it does is make you stupid for using a logical fallicy over and over again.
To me, you are clueless... your utter ignorance for the data presented into your face can only be explained by your inflated ego. You view your own gutfeeling as more relevant as hard data, your explanations are subjective and flat out wrong. Your claims also show a complete ignorance of statistical analasys.
If a 15k dps build is "DPS chasing" you are delusional to say the least...but ofcourse it fits your opinion, and your "gut feeling" so you see it as fact.
sorry, but I'm not going down on your level and call you names, just because you are limited in your comprehension. If to you a 15k dps build means the player is a dps chaser, so be it...just shows you have zero knowledge of the game you seem to play.
And yes, ISA pops every 20 seconds...even less on high traffic days, maybe not for you, because you are certainly "special"
Right...and this is your example of not calling names. Right.... At least I admit what I am...you on the other hand have shown once again how clueless you actually are. You can't even realize that you are down at my level. Hell even lower since you don't even realize you are down here and pretend to be above it all. And I am NOT ignoring hard data since I admit that those ISA data is perfectly valid for seeing what is happening in ISA. I am saying that it can not be applied to the general population...which is basic statistical modeling principles. But since you are so utterly clueless that you think the data model from one queue...one that is ADVANCED no less to EVERYONE in STO, I really can't help you. I'm sorry...but you have crossed over from being ignorant into stupid land and I can't fix stupid.
As for why 15k is DPS chasing levels...I gave you perfectly good reason why it is. You have yet to actually give reason why it isn't other than you said so and to insult me. So yeah...who is the one going by gut feeling here? It ain't me. I have valid reasons that you have yet to refute.
And I have shown quite well that I know a lot about this game. You have shown none so far...and continue to do so.
As for ISA popping ever 20 seconds...not even the queue system agrees with you on that. So if it does pop for YOU every 20 seconds, you are the special one. The rest of us...yeah...not so much. For us mere mortals, we have to wait minutes outside of peek hours on weekends. At midnight on a tuesday, you ain't getting in at all.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I'm trying now I feel I'm ready for elite stuff in the game. But yeash...it's like a dust bowl of an abandoned desert western town with a bunch of tumble weed blowing around more than players. Oh well...
Comments
This is my last post to you. My first post was on topic. I detailed why I choose not to play elite content. You then chose to go off topic for some odd reason. I am anything but a troll, sir. Still, my first post still stands and it was on topic.
But you've been very amusing in your attempts to talk people into elite queues by telling them that it doesn't matter how many times they blow up doing them.
Edit...It does matter how much I blow up doing anything. As I said in my first post, I don't come to STO to test how much I can take or dish out, I come here to have fun. And to me, elite content is not fun.
Long before there were DPS Community or DPS channels, the STO community used Many queues to discuss their dps rating. Eventually ISA became the common queue referred to when comparing DPS. The DPS Communities, there are more than one, made it their standard way of comparison because of how it was discussed in the community prior to their formation.
I don't know what arrogance you are talking of when it comes to Data. Data is not arrogant. Data collected from this particular tool is not arrogant either. Nor is the tool arrogant. It collects all data from any run in which it was used regardless of any such persons inclusion in the DPS community. You don't even need to be part of the DPS community to have this software, use it and upload it. I do it all the time. And I am not a member of any of the DPS groups. I know that on the runs I have made in ISA, the majority of people I am pugging with are not members of the DPS community. The number of pugs I have run over the years is significant enough for me to statistically say you will more likely encounter a non-dpser than a DPS community member in any one ISA run. That fact applied to the chart really sets it up saying that there is more non-dps than DPS Community members in that chart represented. And that is what makes it statistically relevant for this discussion.
With out Cryptic sharing their collected data, this is the best available source of STO population DPS in regards to ISA as a measuring stick for DPS. Statistics is used purposely as the way to calculate the "hard facts" when data collection on an entire population is not possible. And ISA has been used as a standard for making that judgement since before any DPS Community or Channel was formed. There is nothing DPS Centric in my views, the data or the statistics generated from it. I see only you making these statements and so must question your ability to actually overcome your Ant-DPS Bias so that you can actually look at this Data as it actually is. Data.
Collecting data from RA's would be biased to those RA's, but would other has the same potential as this data set. Assuming that it included DPSer's and Non-DPSers. The software could be set to collect such data and collate in the same way that ISA is now. I would welcome it. The data will show a different curve because the content is different between the two. Timing, distance, spawning locations and all that will vary the dps of any person from RA and ISA.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
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CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
O_o WTF?!? o_O coldnapalm never said the data was arrogant... I believe, coldnapalm was referring to the arrogance of some of the DPS community(as a whole)
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Well said.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Ditto what seaofsorrows said. Well said and thank you.
No, you are incapable of understanding basic statistical modeling principles. ISA sample size is perfectly valid, and the method of picking a single sample as a basis is quite common in statistical analasys. Further, the graph clearly shows that it is not biased towards DPSers, since the vast majority of players in that graph did not even reach a 20k benchmark. If it were only DPSers represented in that graph the peak would be somewhere much higher, probably around 40-50k DPS, since that's what the average DPS channel user is capable.
Also, the ISA queue is played by a huge percentage of the community every day, not only DPSers as you claim...go and do 10 runs and count the people doing less that 15k...they are the vast majority. You claimed to have reasons, why people do not join ISA queues anymore, but the fact that one pops every 20 seconds on average contradicts that.
So, you can choose to ignore all this, which you still do, it doesn't matter, to me or the community as a whole. The data, while not 100% accurate indicates a trend, that the vast majority of the community that does group content (the single player community doesn't count anyway) is far from fit for elite content.
That's actually a very good point. Remove most elite queues from the public group finder and double their rewards.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
It's a public queue. Some players are going to be below the minimum requirements. Some players will be above the minimum requirements. Only when there is a hard fail condition does performance really matter.
To me, you are clueless... your utter ignorance for the data presented into your face can only be explained by your inflated ego. You view your own gutfeeling as more relevant as hard data, your explanations are subjective and flat out wrong. Your claims also show a complete ignorance of statistical analasys.
If a 15k dps build is "DPS chasing" you are delusional to say the least...but ofcourse it fits your opinion, and your "gut feeling" so you see it as fact.
sorry, but I'm not going down on your level and call you names, just because you are limited in your comprehension. If to you a 15k dps build means the player is a dps chaser, so be it...just shows you have zero knowledge of the game you seem to play.
And yes, ISA pops every 20 seconds...even less on high traffic days, maybe not for you, because you are certainly "special"
My character Tsin'xing
Crying about "I'm space-naked and I can't 10k dps in ISA" is hardly an argument. The best argument for them being under 10k is that they refuse to learn or to hit the buttons properly in space, even with +beam setups or dhc builds. Exotics kick over 10k easily if you can throw a GW and a DRB in ISA.
PvE curve has been slightly smudged down with the appearance of the new content and mission rewards catering to any type of build.
Failing elites out of carelessness has no excuse (Since you run around on the pve ground map and ignore the missions totally doesn't make it good).
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
For a time we played Elites on a daily basis. Even after S13. We won... We failed... But as the OP suggests, we didn't care, because it was fun. Now one by one, people I enjoyed playing these Elites with dropped off the game. Some, from boredom. Even more from the frustration of S13. A fair lot of them simply became busy with more important matters, like real life for instance.
I'm at the stage where I am bored with the game. I only log in daily for Admiralty now, because doing that is enough to get my daily dil cap done. I am waiting for something new and exciting to come into the game again.
Even if people log in and do Elites as the OP suggests, I probably wouldn't join in. I prefer playing Elites with people I know and have fun with. That way, even if we fail, I know everyone tried. See, I can take failure so long as I know that they tried. Failure due to incompetence is simply something that one can get tired of. And to risk sounding elitist, there is a lot of really clueless players in this game.
Your position in the DPS charts is also largely irrelevant. I've had more Elites succeed with "middling" DPS players than I've had succeed in DPS channel runs. Even ones organized in the higher tiers. ISA scores are misleading. A lot of the ISA scores are made with builds specifically tailored to that map. I've come across 50k+ or even 75k+ players who are suddenly out of their league in an Elite run simply because their ISA DPS won't translate into those maps.
Now of course, there are really good players out there. Players who do well over 100k and perform well in any map you drop them in. There are also players who are below 50k and do great in Elites.
It is true that due to the combat nature of the game, everyone will need to bring a certain amount of DPS to succeed in a map. However, they can also bring other things into the table and end up still being useful despite not being a DPS monster. I've seen people do less than 30k DPS in HSE but contribute so much to the team because they were dedicated healers and debuffers, allowing tanks to do their jobs and DPS builds to run amok safely.
The gist of it is, if you want to do Elites, do so. But please be mindful of the players around you. It is a multiplayer game and everyone impacts each other's "fun". Have your fun, but please don't step on other people's concept of "fun". Be a team player at the very least, and be useful to the group.
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l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
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