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Forums > Home› Ten Forward

ST Discovery: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum (1x08)

mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
edited November 2017 in Ten Forward
Latin: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
English: If you want peace, prepare for war

As usual: cast your vote after the episode has aired or unless you got a reason to vote early.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.

ST Discovery: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum (1x08) 22 votes

I Like it
77%
shpoksorangeitismirrorchaoskurumimorishitamustrumridcully0daveynyreyan01mhall85somtaawkharvaloreahwildthyme467989evilmark444jexsamxtheraven2378thelordofshadesstarswordcredeyedraven 17 votes
I don't like it
18%
alexraptorrartan42thay8472darakoss 4 votes
I don't care
0%
Other (What are your thoughts?)
4%
garaks31 1 vote
«13

Comments

  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 6,017 Arc User
    I Like it
    I don't see it ending well for Admiral Cornwell
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
      Other (What are your thoughts?)
      so many plot points packed into one eps. definitely a must see. and next weeks is the fall finale darn


      DN62jATW0AEo1-8.jpg
      tmprl.jpg?width=998&height=499

      https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1249570/axanar-locks-in-start-date-for-filming
    • UnknownUnknown
      This content has been removed.
    • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
      I Like it
      theraven2378 wrote: »
      I don't see it ending well for Admiral Cornwell

      Well, if she does actually end up being the "Lethe" character from the TOS episode "Dagger of the Mind", then we already know what happens to her.
      If she ain't dead, she'll wish she was.
      B)
      STO Member since February 2009.
      I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
      Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
      upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
    • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
      edited November 2017
      I Like it
      garaks31 wrote: »
      so many plot points packed into one eps. definitely a must see. and next weeks is the fall finale darn


      DN62jATW0AEo1-8.jpg

      I like the look of that ship.
      It's kinda-sorta a pre-pre-pre-Enterprise-J.
      I just wish they throw in a few ships with round nacelles and a couple of more familiar looking Klingon ships.
      The BoP's look more Romulan to me.
      B)
      STO Member since February 2009.
      I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
      Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
      upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
    • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
      edited November 2017
      I Like it
      This episode is alot more interesting than the orville's last episode a few days ago.

      Quite a few questions in the plot need solving.
      Is the Admiral still alive after what L'Rell did to her?
      Kol Killed other Klingons and left them to rot, how well does this body for these discovery Klingons in the future?
      What will happen to L'Rell in knowing Kol has figured her out?
      What will L'Rell have planned for Kol after that discovery?
      The Parvans are in the middle of a conflict and what after effects has it left on Saru and the Parvans?
      Will the Discovery stand up to T'Kuvma's ship?
      How will long term effects on the spore network effect Stamets?
      Where is Qov in all of this and how does it relate to L'Rell and the Admiral?
      What is Kol's main goal beyond simple Klingon supremacy?
      Lorca still questions Burnham's commitment, does he still trust her at her word after this recent outburst?
      How will Burnham fare against the potential to meet more Klingons again in battle?
      How hard will Lorca push his crew in a key moment?
      T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
      Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
    • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
      The more episodes I watch the more I question why Lorca would have picked Saru as his first officer in the first place. It seems - odd, that he would chose somebody who's constantly afraid (a natural coward) and who would always object to Lorca's more questionable orders, as well as annoy him with protocol and tedious scientific discoveries. Lorca would have chosen somebody like his former chief of security. A badass, skilled fighter who doesn't have problems with bending or breaking the rules if the goals are important enough.

      Anyway, if you disregard the Klingon plot this was actually a good episode. Strange new worlds, new life and an unexpected outcome. What more can you ask of a Star Trek episode?

      As for the Klingon plot, the female Klingon must be particulary stupid if she thought this plan of her's was going to work. She stole a fighter from Kol's sarcophagus ship to rescue the albino (which Kol must have noticed at some point). She had Lorca in her custody and let him escape and now she arrives out of nowhere to "interrogate" Kol's most valuable prisoner. She then lets that prisoner out of her cell and 'kills' her. If Kol didn't see her as a traitor he would excecute her for utter incompetence.

      5/10
    • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
      edited November 2017
      I Like it
      szim wrote: »
      The more episodes I watch the more I question why Lorca would have picked Saru as his first officer in the first place. It seems - odd, that he would chose somebody who's constantly afraid (a natural coward) and who would always object to Lorca's more questionable orders, as well as annoy him with protocol and tedious scientific discoveries. Lorca would have chosen somebody like his former chief of security. A badass, skilled fighter who doesn't have problems with bending or breaking the rules if the goals are important enough.

      Anyway, if you disregard the Klingon plot this was actually a good episode. Strange new worlds, new life and an unexpected outcome. What more can you ask of a Star Trek episode?

      As for the Klingon plot, the female Klingon must be particulary stupid if she thought this plan of her's was going to work. She stole a fighter from Kol's sarcophagus ship to rescue the albino (which Kol must have noticed at some point). She had Lorca in her custody and let him escape and now she arrives out of nowhere to "interrogate" Kol's most valuable prisoner. She then lets that prisoner out of her cell and 'kills' her. If Kol didn't see her as a traitor he would excecute her for utter incompetence.

      5/10

      Klingons say it best, to face ones own fears takes a brave man to do so and Saru is putting himself in harms way on a regular basis beside the enormous fear and dread he feels. Saru is far from being a coward, but he's just constantly on alert due to the circumstances he is involved in. Without that fear response constantly dictating his actions, he's a lot less attentive to his tasks or to those around him, it gives a glimpse into the world of the species Saru is from, one is the hunter and one is the prey and without the fear response the hunted can become the hunter.

      The Klingon plot on the other end, L'Rell wouldn't of been executed for incompetence, but rather for acts of treason with a dishonorable death and Kol would be well within his right to cut her down just for that, he has a purpose for L'Rell and i'm guessing Qov is apart of it.
      T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
      Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
    • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
      mirrorchaos wrote: »
      szim wrote: »
      The more episodes I watch the more I question why Lorca would have picked Saru as his first officer in the first place. It seems - odd, that he would chose somebody who's constantly afraid (a natural coward) and who would always object to Lorca's more questionable orders, as well as annoy him with protocol and tedious scientific discoveries. Lorca would have chosen somebody like his former chief of security. A badass, skilled fighter who doesn't have problems with bending or breaking the rules if the goals are important enough.

      Anyway, if you disregard the Klingon plot this was actually a good episode. Strange new worlds, new life and an unexpected outcome. What more can you ask of a Star Trek episode?

      As for the Klingon plot, the female Klingon must be particulary stupid if she thought this plan of her's was going to work. She stole a fighter from Kol's sarcophagus ship to rescue the albino (which Kol must have noticed at some point). She had Lorca in her custody and let him escape and now she arrives out of nowhere to "interrogate" Kol's most valuable prisoner. She then lets that prisoner out of her cell and 'kills' her. If Kol didn't see her as a traitor he would excecute her for utter incompetence.

      5/10

      Klingons say it best, to face ones own fears takes a brave man to do so and Saru is putting himself in harms way on a regular basis beside the enormous fear and dread he feels. Saru is far from being a coward, but he's just constantly on alert due to the circumstances he is involved in. Without that fear response constantly dictating his actions, he's a lot less attentive to his tasks or to those around him, it gives a glimpse into the world of the species Saru is from, one is the hunter and one is the prey and without the fear response the hunted can become the hunter.

      The Klingon plot on the other end, L'Rell wouldn't of been executed for incompetence, but rather for acts of treason with a dishonorable death and Kol would be well within his right to cut her down just for that, he has a purpose for L'Rell and i'm guessing Qov is apart of it.

      I don't doubt that Saru can be a good, capable and valuable first officer (despite his constant fear). I simply doubt that Lorca would have picked him for that position. He's a scientist with conscience and principles. Not exactly in line with Lorca's philosophy.
    • thelordofshadesthelordofshades Member Posts: 258 Arc User
      I Like it
      The first episode of the series that didn't raise big questions for me, and the most Star Trek-like of them.
    • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
      I Like it
      szim wrote: »
      mirrorchaos wrote: »
      szim wrote: »
      The more episodes I watch the more I question why Lorca would have picked Saru as his first officer in the first place. It seems - odd, that he would chose somebody who's constantly afraid (a natural coward) and who would always object to Lorca's more questionable orders, as well as annoy him with protocol and tedious scientific discoveries. Lorca would have chosen somebody like his former chief of security. A badass, skilled fighter who doesn't have problems with bending or breaking the rules if the goals are important enough.

      Anyway, if you disregard the Klingon plot this was actually a good episode. Strange new worlds, new life and an unexpected outcome. What more can you ask of a Star Trek episode?

      As for the Klingon plot, the female Klingon must be particulary stupid if she thought this plan of her's was going to work. She stole a fighter from Kol's sarcophagus ship to rescue the albino (which Kol must have noticed at some point). She had Lorca in her custody and let him escape and now she arrives out of nowhere to "interrogate" Kol's most valuable prisoner. She then lets that prisoner out of her cell and 'kills' her. If Kol didn't see her as a traitor he would excecute her for utter incompetence.

      5/10

      Klingons say it best, to face ones own fears takes a brave man to do so and Saru is putting himself in harms way on a regular basis beside the enormous fear and dread he feels. Saru is far from being a coward, but he's just constantly on alert due to the circumstances he is involved in. Without that fear response constantly dictating his actions, he's a lot less attentive to his tasks or to those around him, it gives a glimpse into the world of the species Saru is from, one is the hunter and one is the prey and without the fear response the hunted can become the hunter.

      The Klingon plot on the other end, L'Rell wouldn't of been executed for incompetence, but rather for acts of treason with a dishonorable death and Kol would be well within his right to cut her down just for that, he has a purpose for L'Rell and i'm guessing Qov is apart of it.

      I don't doubt that Saru can be a good, capable and valuable first officer (despite his constant fear). I simply doubt that Lorca would have picked him for that position. He's a scientist with conscience and principles. Not exactly in line with Lorca's philosophy.

      Promoting that security officer to first officer doesn't really help Lorca out, she will become a "yes man", no matter how bad it can be with Lorca, she would make it worse by agreeing to a plan of aggresion in the only way she could with weapons, aggression and a narrow view point.

      Saru on the other hand can give Lorca that much needed point of view that he would be missing on his own, by having a first officer like Saru to keep Lorca honest and provide a different way of going about things, it would make sense to take Saru over that security officer because he is more prone to sorting things out without trying to resort to shooting first and answering questions later, Saru can also provide an objective point of view in science and as the alien outsider.
      T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
      Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
    • thelordofshadesthelordofshades Member Posts: 258 Arc User
      edited November 2017
      I Like it
      szim wrote: »
      I simply doubt that Lorca would have picked him for that position.
      There is a possibility that it was not Lorca, who put him in that position - his power in Starfleet surprisingly does has limitations after all, as we learned two episodes ago (before that he just, what he wished without any repercussions). Saru maybe there as a check-in mechanism for Lorca's actions.

    • UnknownUnknown
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    • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
      I Like it
      Landing Party.

      They said Landing Party.

      Bravo. :smiley:
      d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
    • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
      valoreah wrote: »
      szim wrote: »
      The more episodes I watch the more I question why Lorca would have picked Saru as his first officer in the first place. It seems - odd, that he would chose somebody who's constantly afraid (a natural coward) ...

      I question if you've actually been watching the show. The last several episodes have proven Saru is not the meek coward everyone (including himself) thought him to be.

      Well he seemed anxious enough to me in the two pilot episodes. And that's the kind of man Lorca has picked as his first officer not the man he has become since. He certainly managed to control his fear better by now. But that's not something Lorca could have anticipated then. So yeah, I HAVE watched the show.
    • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
      I don't like it
      I like it, not enough to go in depth like I did with the previous few but I will say what was going on with L'Rell? How much does she know about the Discovery? How did she find out? Cornwall didn't tell her. How much does Kol know?

      No death penalty? Owww, I want my surprisingly fascist Federation from TOS. You know, the one that made poor Spock sign himself as 'Half-Vulcan science officer Mr Spock' and kills fools for stumbling upon a planet.

      Also, how are people getting Mirror Universe vibes from Stamets Officer Mcmushroomface? He was a d|ck to start off with, got high on space mushrooms and was trippy to the extent hi was moving through time oddly (hence the mirror thing) and now his personality is clearly doing the same.

      It may just be me not wanting to see the bleeding, twatting, bloody, godsdamn, sodding awful, bollocks of the Mirror Universe ever again.​​
      22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
      Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
      JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
      #TASforSTO


      '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
      'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
      'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
      '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
      'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
      '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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    • UnknownUnknown
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    • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,168 Arc User
      I don't like it
      artan42 wrote: »
      I like it, not enough to go in depth like I did with the previous few but I will say what was going on with L'Rell? How much does she know about the Discovery? How did she find out? Cornwall didn't tell her. How much does Kol know?

      No death penalty? Owww, I want my surprisingly fascist Federation from TOS. You know, the one that made poor Spock sign himself as 'Half-Vulcan science officer Mr Spock' and kills fools for stumbling upon a planet.

      Also, how are people getting Mirror Universe vibes from Stamets Officer Mcmushroomface? He was a d|ck to start off with, got high on space mushrooms and was trippy to the extent hi was moving through time oddly (hence the mirror thing) and now his personality is clearly doing the same.

      It may just be me not wanting to see the bleeding, twatting, bloody, godsdamn, sodding awful, bollocks of the Mirror Universe ever again.​​

      You shut ya face! The Mirror Universe is better than this PoS.
      zx2t8tuj4i10.png
      Thank you for the Typhoon!
    • UnknownUnknown
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    • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
      I Like it
      artan42 wrote: »
      No death penalty? Owww, I want my surprisingly fascist Federation from TOS. You know, the one that made poor Spock sign himself as 'Half-Vulcan science officer Mr Spock' and kills fools for stumbling upon a planet.

      I had the same thought, LOL.

      I picture Starfleet Command, as a typical slow-moving bureaucracy, have finally written up General Order 7 while Cornwell was captured. She simply didn't get the memo, LOL.
      Also, how are people getting Mirror Universe vibes from Stamets Officer Mcmushroomface? He was a d|ck to start off with, got high on space mushrooms and was trippy to the extent hi was moving through time oddly (hence the mirror thing) and now his personality is clearly doing the same.

      It may just be me not wanting to see the bleeding, twatting, bloody, godsdamn, sodding awful, bollocks of the Mirror Universe ever again.​​

      Also agreed, and I think Stamets will be used as a "kryptonite" for uncovering a MU spy-type-character. I think he saw the future when he referred to Tilly as captain, not Tilly is captain in the MU.

      Then again, maybe MU Tilly is a evil, sadistic tyrant that has a Warlord Janeway poster in her ready room...
      d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
    • UnknownUnknown
      This content has been removed.
    • UnknownUnknown
      edited November 2017
      This content has been removed.
    • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
      I don't like it
      somtaawkhar wrote: »
      artan42 wrote: »
      Also, how are people getting Mirror Universe vibes from Stamets Officer Mcmushroomface? He was a d|ck to start off with, got high on space mushrooms and was trippy to the extent hi was moving through time oddly (hence the mirror thing) and now his personality is clearly doing the same.
      They already confirmed they would be visiting the Mirror Universe at some point this season.

      Yes, but that dosn't mean every time a character acts odd it's because they're from the MU. Officer Mcmushroomface is temporally displaced and Lorca is an extremist, and Tyler is... whatever he turns out to be.

      This is one of my problems with the MU, how it dumbs everything down, any hint of characters being interesting and it's 'oh, they're evil'.
      mhall85 wrote: »
      Also agreed, and I think Stamets will be used as a "kryptonite" for uncovering a MU spy-type-character. I think he saw the future when he referred to Tilly as captain, not Tilly is captain in the MU.

      I'm sure that's what the Mudd episode was setting up. His ability to spot temporal or spatial malaky will probably come in useful.​​
      22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
      Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
      JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
      #TASforSTO


      '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
      'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
      'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
      '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
      'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
      '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

      Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
    • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
      I don't like it
      Come to think of it, was the death penalty mentioned in 'The Menagerie' or only in 'The Cage'?​​
      22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
      Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
      JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
      #TASforSTO


      '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
      'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
      'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
      '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
      'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
      '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

      Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
    • UnknownUnknown
      This content has been removed.
    • UnknownUnknown
      This content has been removed.
    • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
      I don't like it
      Even odder. Hmm.
      22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
      Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
      JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
      #TASforSTO


      '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
      'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
      'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
      '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
      'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
      '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

      Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
    • damienvryce2damienvryce2 Member Posts: 428 Arc User
      Tilly said she always wanted to be a captain some day. Stamets climbs out of the shroom chamber and calls her captain. Is he seeing the future?
      STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
      I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
    • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
      I Like it
      damienvryce2 wrote: »
      Tilly said she always wanted to be a captain some day. Stamets climbs out of the shroom chamber and calls her captain. Is he seeing the future?

      That is my guess.
      Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
    • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
      I Like it
      Yes, you guys are correct. General Order 7 was only mentioned in "The Menagerie," and was never mentioned again in canon. So, one can assume that General Order 7 was repealed or changed at some point.

      It also makes no sense, as a rule, of course. And THAT goes back to the nature of "The Menagerie." It was a creative use of the unaired original pilot as a "clips show" to save money. Since they used "The Cage" in this way, they needed the "Menagerie" story wrapper needed SOME weight/tension to it, if Spock was going to take the Enterprise, kidnap Pike, and deliver him to Talos IV. Not only is Spock's career on the line, his very life is on the line.

      But, again, the rule makes no damn sense, LOL, so tension doesn't exist. It's probably why later Trek writers just ignore GO 7 altogether.

      STILL... GO 7 is canon, so... :tongue:
      d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
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