Sorry Patrickngo and Smokebailey, could you both at least lose the colorful language? No disrespect to your thoughts on the matter so far, you both have a point in what you have stated but it could be better without so much anger(?) in the way you transmit your dislike for it.
i hope i haven't come across as being disrespectful myself in the process.
Colorful language is what I use. Most of it gets covered in stars, anyhow...even harmless, words, it seems. This is how I talk, and when I criticize something, I shall rip it apart, it's the George Carlin mentality about me. I am not going to either PC myself, nor change how I talk. Sorry.
While I admit I still haven't seen DISCO, I think you'll find connecting it to Prime canon an exercise in frustration. Everything I've seen about DISCO makes me think it's a reboot that they don't want to call a reboot: new look, new tech, new Klingon culture, etc. They want to do their own thing without being saddled with the burden of maintaining consistency with the other series, but after JJ-Trek's reception they don't dare admit that they're making a reboot.
It's not necessarily a bad thing to do a reboot. Reboots are okay if they're done well.
Discovery is bait and switch. And I never cared for reboots....to me, they are just the typical lazy, uninspired Hollywood cookie cutter mentality and putting something out and avoiding the that oh so dreadful process of either doing continuation or....get this...something original. ~cues dramatic chord~
This is why I support fan films like Phase 2 or ST Continues, etc. They are pretty darn good, and they do their best to stick to what was set up beforehand.
Yeah, DISCO would probably work better if it was in independent sci-fi series, rather than a Star Trek series. Work narratively, I mean. Maybe not work commercially.
But while I agree that Hollywood as a whole is over-obsessed with reboots and we need more big-budget original productions, they can't really to a continuation of TOS. It's dated aesthetically and the narratives are too simple and well-trodden to work for modern audiences.
If you want to make a Star Trek production, you have two choices: Continue one of the existing series, in which case you have to deal with the big, hairy continuity snarls that came with those series, as well as stay fairly close in tone; or do a reboot, in which case you can rework the Star Trek universe as you see fit, keeping what works for you and discarding what doesn't. That lets you make whatever point you want to make.
DISCO's problem is that it's functionally a reboot, but pretends to maintain continuity. That could well be an executive meddling issue:
Creators: We have an idea for a Star Trek reboot.
CBS/Paramount/Whoever, they're all the same: Great! Reboots are in! But wait, fans hated the last reboot. Don't call it a reboot.
Creators: So make a reboot but call it a continuation?
Corporate Overlords: Exactly!
So that's why Phase 2, ST Continues, Pacific 201, and Axxanar were so well liked, because it's dated looking? Trek don't need a reboot....fans seem to do pretty well.......CBS/Paramount is run by, to me, a bunch of BEAN COUNTERS, who THINK they are intelligent and talented, when, in reality, then are not. If Trek can be done by big time fans of the show, aka 'us geeks', better than than the suits, that sorta tells me the suits need to take a good, long look at themselves.
I don't think it's dated or too simple. Look on modern western world tv and films.......explosions, overrated and garish CGI, actors who all talk in those low whisper, Snake Plisskin wannabe voices; and double d cup **** flopping about, sexual tension, and little to no plot, story or substance.
I'm not sure on Axanar, that didn't go very far with that whole infringement thing with CBS, not a lot of people were happy after all that, especially other fan made services who were punished for it and probably a lot of people who watched these fan made shows, Axanar quietly released their two parter and sank without a trace after that. Besides that, CBS is just there to make sure Canon is respected and to have tv rights to it on their channel, but CBS isn't solely to blame for it; Secret Hideout, Roddenberry Entertainment and Living Dead Guy Productions are just as involved in creating the show and so are their EP's.
There are a lot of people involved in something of this scale and something needed to be found that everyone can get onboard with. I know you and Patrickngo are not happy with Discovery because of what it is and what it represents, but it should respected for everyone who is involved in the project.
Maybe if CBS and Paramount made....you know....GOOD STUFF.....maybe there would be less fanfilms. And Axxanar was simply the one they went after, if not Axxanar, it would have been Renegades or ST Continues or whatever. Competition worries bean counters. When it gets to the point a comedic sci fi series is able to give the official stuff some decent competition, they might wanna rethink things....though when it comes to thinking, that's a new concept for them to grasp.
And so far, CBS has done a **** poor job respecting cannon in discovery, as are all the others involved. They are pretty much going, in my opinion, saying they are 'respecting' TOS cannon, but, in actually, dropping their pants and using TOS as proverbial toilet paper. Plus all the other stuff angrytarg above mentioned.....don't see any need to respect it.
All right, let's go over this one more time, since you seem to be denser than some black holes.
CBS shot down Axanar because Alec Peters seemed convinced that he had the God-given right to do whatever the hell he wanted with Star Trek without any consequence. How do we know this? Because he stated publicly in a financial report released in December 2015, available for your perusal at Axamonitor, that he was A) paying himself and several other people a five-digit salary out of the funds donated for his amateur fan film project and pulling from the funds to use them to found a startup studio for unrelated projects. CBS filed their lawsuit three days after this report came out. Coincidence? I think not.
In contrast, Vic Micnogna over on Star Trek Continues was actually respectful of CBS and of the fact that he doesn't own Star Trek. He never had an untoward encounter with CBS Legal until Peters went on his little ego trip. Then somebody else filed a copyright complaint against it and YouTube took it down.
CBS told YouTube to put it back up.
CBS is not the bad guy here, get used to it. IP law exists for a very good reason.
/flamingdeathtotheeditmonster
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
While I admit I still haven't seen DISCO, I think you'll find connecting it to Prime canon an exercise in frustration. Everything I've seen about DISCO makes me think it's a reboot that they don't want to call a reboot: new look, new tech, new Klingon culture, etc. They want to do their own thing without being saddled with the burden of maintaining consistency with the other series, but after JJ-Trek's reception they don't dare admit that they're making a reboot.
It's not necessarily a bad thing to do a reboot. Reboots are okay if they're done well.
Discovery is bait and switch. And I never cared for reboots....to me, they are just the typical lazy, uninspired Hollywood cookie cutter mentality and putting something out and avoiding the that oh so dreadful process of either doing continuation or....get this...something original. ~cues dramatic chord~
This is why I support fan films like Phase 2 or ST Continues, etc. They are pretty darn good, and they do their best to stick to what was set up beforehand.
Yeah, DISCO would probably work better if it was in independent sci-fi series, rather than a Star Trek series. Work narratively, I mean. Maybe not work commercially.
But while I agree that Hollywood as a whole is over-obsessed with reboots and we need more big-budget original productions, they can't really to a continuation of TOS. It's dated aesthetically and the narratives are too simple and well-trodden to work for modern audiences.
If you want to make a Star Trek production, you have two choices: Continue one of the existing series, in which case you have to deal with the big, hairy continuity snarls that came with those series, as well as stay fairly close in tone; or do a reboot, in which case you can rework the Star Trek universe as you see fit, keeping what works for you and discarding what doesn't. That lets you make whatever point you want to make.
DISCO's problem is that it's functionally a reboot, but pretends to maintain continuity. That could well be an executive meddling issue:
Creators: We have an idea for a Star Trek reboot.
CBS/Paramount/Whoever, they're all the same: Great! Reboots are in! But wait, fans hated the last reboot. Don't call it a reboot.
Creators: So make a reboot but call it a continuation?
Corporate Overlords: Exactly!
So that's why Phase 2, ST Continues, Pacific 201, and Axxanar were so well liked, because it's dated looking? Trek don't need a reboot....fans seem to do pretty well.......CBS/Paramount is run by, to me, a bunch of BEAN COUNTERS, who THINK they are intelligent and talented, when, in reality, then are not. If Trek can be done by big time fans of the show, aka 'us geeks', better than than the suits, that sorta tells me the suits need to take a good, long look at themselves.
I don't think it's dated or too simple. Look on modern western world tv and films.......explosions, overrated and garish CGI, actors who all talk in those low whisper, Snake Plisskin wannabe voices; and double d cup **** flopping about, sexual tension, and little to no plot, story or substance.
I'm not sure on Axanar, that didn't go very far with that whole infringement thing with CBS, not a lot of people were happy after all that, especially other fan made services who were punished for it and probably a lot of people who watched these fan made shows, Axanar quietly released their two parter and sank without a trace after that. Besides that, CBS is just there to make sure Canon is respected and to have tv rights to it on their channel, but CBS isn't solely to blame for it; Secret Hideout, Roddenberry Entertainment and Living Dead Guy Productions are just as involved in creating the show and so are their EP's.
There are a lot of people involved in something of this scale and something needed to be found that everyone can get onboard with. I know you and Patrickngo are not happy with Discovery because of what it is and what it represents, but it should respected for everyone who is involved in the project.
Maybe if CBS and Paramount made....you know....GOOD STUFF.....maybe there would be less fanfilms. And Axxanar was simply the one they went after, if not Axxanar, it would have been Renegades or ST Continues or whatever. Competition worries bean counters. When it gets to the point a comedic sci fi series is able to give the official stuff some decent competition, they might wanna rethink things....though when it comes to thinking, that's a new concept for them to grasp.
And so far, CBS has done a **** poor job respecting cannon in discovery, as are all the others involved. They are pretty much going, in my opinion, saying they are 'respecting' TOS cannon, but, in actually, dropping their pants and using TOS as proverbial toilet paper. Plus all the other stuff angrytarg above mentioned.....don't see any need to respect it.
All right, let's go over this one more time, since you seem to be denser than some black holes.
CBS shot down Axanar because Alec Peters seemed convinced that he had the God-given right to do whatever the hell he wanted with Star Trek without any consequence. How do we know this? Because he stated publicly in a financial report released in December 2015, available for your perusal at Axamonitor, that he was A) paying himself and several other people a five-digit salary out of the funds donated for his amateur fan film project and pulling from the funds to use them to found a startup studio for unrelated projects. CBS filed their lawsuit three days after this report came out. Coincidence? I think not.
In contrast, Vic Micnogna over on Star Trek Continues was actually respectful of CBS and of the fact that he doesn't own Star Trek. He never had an untoward encounter with CBS Legal until Peters went on his little ego trip. Then somebody else filed a copyright complaint against it and YouTube took it down.
CBS told YouTube to put it back up.
CBS is not the bad guy here, get used to it. IP law exists for a very good reason.
/flamingdeathtotheeditmonster
This is exactly right. People get confused because CBS is villainous in general, but in this instance it wasn't just right to shut down Axanar, it had an obligation to. Being more faithful and respectful of the source material than the rights holder doesn't give you blanket permission to steal from them to achieve your vision.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,689Community Moderator
By who's definition do we measure if something is Star Trek or not?
Based on shows in the past, we KNOW that Starfleet has used multiple uniforms at the same time. Two of the best examples are TNG and DS9. In TNG we had a lot of people in the background still using the Season 1 uniform well into the later seasons. DS9 aired while TNG was around, and we saw TNG uniforms as well as the ones on DS9. So... The Discovery style uniforms and Cage style uniforms being in service at the same time isn't farfetched.
The Discovery Phaser may retcon the Cage Laser Pistol, BUT... it does pay tribute to the design, and astetically leads into the TOS style Phaser. I mean the Title sequence actually shows a TOS pistol getting taken apart and reassembled as a Discovery style! And in all honestly I wouldn't mind if they retconned the TOS Phaser Rifle as that thing was just epically impractical in terms of wielding. I mean it basically FORCES you to fire from the hip! But I will say the Discovery Rifle also pays tribute to the TOS one with the cylinders in the body of the rifle. We have also seen the rifle is capable of beam fire as well as bolt fire, thus keeping that in line with "later" shows that relied on beams for rifles.
In TOS we never say anything other than the Constitution class. We know for a fact there were other classes in service, yet we never saw them. Kinda doesn't make sense to only have the one class. Discovery reveals multiple classes of starship that would fit in alongside the Connie. The main reason the Connie may look so different may be based on who designed it. Maybe the Connie was a joint venture between the founding members while some of the older ships were more human designs.
The main point of contention left is the Klingons. People are assuming that CBS is totally retconning the TOS style Klingons. Yet I have to point out that the previous Star Trek show didn't and actually not only recognized the need for them, but actually GAVE us the TOS style Klingons later on. Now... is it possible that the Discovery Klingons represent the ENTIRE population of the Klingon Empire? No. We've only seen a few individuals. The Empire covers a vast territory. The Augment Virus may not have spread to cover EVERYTHING within the Empire. That means that the TOS style Klingons may not be the majority of the population. But that still doesn't explain the departure from the TMP/TNG style Klingons we saw through to Enterprise. It could mean that we're dealing with a previously unseen ethnic group with more exagurated features. Kinda like how Gorkon, his daughter, and Chang in TUC had less defined features compared to other Klingons we had seen before and since.
The point of all this is that Discovery is still only in its first season. While it may be a bit of a rocky start, it still has time to develop.
While some advocate that Star Trek "must always look forward", we do have to consider that the canon timeline does have rather big holes in it open to new stories within the Star Trek universe. The period of time between the launch of the Enterprise-B through to the launch of the Enterprise-D being a prime example. Another is the Earth-Romulan War and the founding of the Federation, which was only touched upon in Enterprise. Should these open ares in the timeline only be touched by novels? Or can we take a chance to explore these time periods in a more official capacity?
Saying Discovery is not Star Trek based on visuals alone would be like saying the 2014 Godzilla is not Godzilla because it looks nothing like the ORIGINAL black and white movie with a guy in a suit. The "throwing out Canon" argument is pretty stale as we heard many of the same arguments with Enterprise, AND Discovery is still only in its first season. Its still young.
I'm a fan of Star Trek. I like things that expand the universe. I admit I was once against the Kelvin design for the Enterprise before I actually saw the movie. The turning point was seeing her pop out of Titan. For me, Star Trek isn't just about pushing forward. Its the entire universe. The characters, the ships, the locations... The universe of Star Trek is far more than just the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.
I know I won't win any arguments with people who have already made up their minds, but I am one of those people who are willing to give things a chance.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,689Community Moderator
I don't hold it up based on the fact it says Star Trek on the box. Just like I don't hold the Kelvin Timeline up based on the fact it says Star Trek on the box. I judge it on its own merits, not the merits of what came before. Just like you said. While I admit I've only seen 3 episodes of Discovery, I'm still giving it a chance to prove itself.
I mean... the first two seasons of TNG weren't that great either.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
By who's definition do we measure if something is Star Trek or not?
Based on shows in the past, we KNOW that Starfleet has used multiple uniforms at the same time. Two of the best examples are TNG and DS9. In TNG we had a lot of people in the background still using the Season 1 uniform well into the later seasons. DS9 aired while TNG was around, and we saw TNG uniforms as well as the ones on DS9. So... The Discovery style uniforms and Cage style uniforms being in service at the same time isn't farfetched.
The Discovery Phaser may retcon the Cage Laser Pistol, BUT... it does pay tribute to the design, and astetically leads into the TOS style Phaser. I mean the Title sequence actually shows a TOS pistol getting taken apart and reassembled as a Discovery style! And in all honestly I wouldn't mind if they retconned the TOS Phaser Rifle as that thing was just epically impractical in terms of wielding. I mean it basically FORCES you to fire from the hip! But I will say the Discovery Rifle also pays tribute to the TOS one with the cylinders in the body of the rifle. We have also seen the rifle is capable of beam fire as well as bolt fire, thus keeping that in line with "later" shows that relied on beams for rifles.
In TOS we never say anything other than the Constitution class. We know for a fact there were other classes in service, yet we never saw them. Kinda doesn't make sense to only have the one class. Discovery reveals multiple classes of starship that would fit in alongside the Connie. The main reason the Connie may look so different may be based on who designed it. Maybe the Connie was a joint venture between the founding members while some of the older ships were more human designs.
The main point of contention left is the Klingons. People are assuming that CBS is totally retconning the TOS style Klingons. Yet I have to point out that the previous Star Trek show didn't and actually not only recognized the need for them, but actually GAVE us the TOS style Klingons later on. Now... is it possible that the Discovery Klingons represent the ENTIRE population of the Klingon Empire? No. We've only seen a few individuals. The Empire covers a vast territory. The Augment Virus may not have spread to cover EVERYTHING within the Empire. That means that the TOS style Klingons may not be the majority of the population. But that still doesn't explain the departure from the TMP/TNG style Klingons we saw through to Enterprise. It could mean that we're dealing with a previously unseen ethnic group with more exagurated features. Kinda like how Gorkon, his daughter, and Chang in TUC had less defined features compared to other Klingons we had seen before and since.
The point of all this is that Discovery is still only in its first season. While it may be a bit of a rocky start, it still has time to develop.
While some advocate that Star Trek "must always look forward", we do have to consider that the canon timeline does have rather big holes in it open to new stories within the Star Trek universe. The period of time between the launch of the Enterprise-B through to the launch of the Enterprise-D being a prime example. Another is the Earth-Romulan War and the founding of the Federation, which was only touched upon in Enterprise. Should these open ares in the timeline only be touched by novels? Or can we take a chance to explore these time periods in a more official capacity?
Saying Discovery is not Star Trek based on visuals alone would be like saying the 2014 Godzilla is not Godzilla because it looks nothing like the ORIGINAL black and white movie with a guy in a suit. The "throwing out Canon" argument is pretty stale as we heard many of the same arguments with Enterprise, AND Discovery is still only in its first season. Its still young.
I'm a fan of Star Trek. I like things that expand the universe. I admit I was once against the Kelvin design for the Enterprise before I actually saw the movie. The turning point was seeing her pop out of Titan. For me, Star Trek isn't just about pushing forward. Its the entire universe. The characters, the ships, the locations... The universe of Star Trek is far more than just the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.
I know I won't win any arguments with people who have already made up their minds, but I am one of those people who are willing to give things a chance.
So far, they seem to be avoiding anything with the connies and tos. As well as Klingons of TOS or TMP......so far, all we see are the fetish convention klingons....that's it, finito. I mean look what they did to the D7....give us a banana and say it's an apple. i'm pretty scared to wonder how they are gonna 'improve' the connie, should we see one. Plus, so far, none of these characters I care for. This is like, "Instead of Starfleet's best, here's the guys we prefer not to talk about". I mean I feel so sorry for anyone assigned to THAT ship.
And as for TNG, there's quite a few stories from the first 2 seasons I quite liked a lot.
While I admit I still haven't seen DISCO, I think you'll find connecting it to Prime canon an exercise in frustration. Everything I've seen about DISCO makes me think it's a reboot that they don't want to call a reboot: new look, new tech, new Klingon culture, etc. They want to do their own thing without being saddled with the burden of maintaining consistency with the other series, but after JJ-Trek's reception they don't dare admit that they're making a reboot.
It's not necessarily a bad thing to do a reboot. Reboots are okay if they're done well.
Discovery is bait and switch. And I never cared for reboots....to me, they are just the typical lazy, uninspired Hollywood cookie cutter mentality and putting something out and avoiding the that oh so dreadful process of either doing continuation or....get this...something original. ~cues dramatic chord~
This is why I support fan films like Phase 2 or ST Continues, etc. They are pretty darn good, and they do their best to stick to what was set up beforehand.
Yeah, DISCO would probably work better if it was in independent sci-fi series, rather than a Star Trek series. Work narratively, I mean. Maybe not work commercially.
But while I agree that Hollywood as a whole is over-obsessed with reboots and we need more big-budget original productions, they can't really to a continuation of TOS. It's dated aesthetically and the narratives are too simple and well-trodden to work for modern audiences.
If you want to make a Star Trek production, you have two choices: Continue one of the existing series, in which case you have to deal with the big, hairy continuity snarls that came with those series, as well as stay fairly close in tone; or do a reboot, in which case you can rework the Star Trek universe as you see fit, keeping what works for you and discarding what doesn't. That lets you make whatever point you want to make.
DISCO's problem is that it's functionally a reboot, but pretends to maintain continuity. That could well be an executive meddling issue:
Creators: We have an idea for a Star Trek reboot.
CBS/Paramount/Whoever, they're all the same: Great! Reboots are in! But wait, fans hated the last reboot. Don't call it a reboot.
Creators: So make a reboot but call it a continuation?
Corporate Overlords: Exactly!
So that's why Phase 2, ST Continues, Pacific 201, and Axxanar were so well liked, because it's dated looking? Trek don't need a reboot....fans seem to do pretty well.......CBS/Paramount is run by, to me, a bunch of BEAN COUNTERS, who THINK they are intelligent and talented, when, in reality, then are not. If Trek can be done by big time fans of the show, aka 'us geeks', better than than the suits, that sorta tells me the suits need to take a good, long look at themselves.
I don't think it's dated or too simple. Look on modern western world tv and films.......explosions, overrated and garish CGI, actors who all talk in those low whisper, Snake Plisskin wannabe voices; and double d cup **** flopping about, sexual tension, and little to no plot, story or substance.
The only one of those that I'm really familiar with is Axanar, which actually looks quite different from TOS (Compare the Enterprise to the Axanar. Axanar takes as many cues from TMP as TOS), and from what we were shown it's narratively more complex than TOS. The fact that a lot of modern movies and TV shows (including DISCO, from what I've read) are gritty TRIBBLE where the lead role goes to special effects doesn't mean that the older stuff is actually good. Mind you there were some episodes of TOS that were really good, but for every Devil in the Dark you had five stories where androids took over and Kirk snoogles up to the girl of the week who had no backstory.
It's also worth noting that while DISCO seemingly isn't very well written, it does try to have character arcs, which is more than I can say about TOS.
While I admit I still haven't seen DISCO, I think you'll find connecting it to Prime canon an exercise in frustration. Everything I've seen about DISCO makes me think it's a reboot that they don't want to call a reboot: new look, new tech, new Klingon culture, etc. They want to do their own thing without being saddled with the burden of maintaining consistency with the other series, but after JJ-Trek's reception they don't dare admit that they're making a reboot.
It's not necessarily a bad thing to do a reboot. Reboots are okay if they're done well.
Discovery is bait and switch. And I never cared for reboots....to me, they are just the typical lazy, uninspired Hollywood cookie cutter mentality and putting something out and avoiding the that oh so dreadful process of either doing continuation or....get this...something original. ~cues dramatic chord~
This is why I support fan films like Phase 2 or ST Continues, etc. They are pretty darn good, and they do their best to stick to what was set up beforehand.
Yeah, DISCO would probably work better if it was in independent sci-fi series, rather than a Star Trek series. Work narratively, I mean. Maybe not work commercially.
But while I agree that Hollywood as a whole is over-obsessed with reboots and we need more big-budget original productions, they can't really to a continuation of TOS. It's dated aesthetically and the narratives are too simple and well-trodden to work for modern audiences.
If you want to make a Star Trek production, you have two choices: Continue one of the existing series, in which case you have to deal with the big, hairy continuity snarls that came with those series, as well as stay fairly close in tone; or do a reboot, in which case you can rework the Star Trek universe as you see fit, keeping what works for you and discarding what doesn't. That lets you make whatever point you want to make.
DISCO's problem is that it's functionally a reboot, but pretends to maintain continuity. That could well be an executive meddling issue:
Creators: We have an idea for a Star Trek reboot.
CBS/Paramount/Whoever, they're all the same: Great! Reboots are in! But wait, fans hated the last reboot. Don't call it a reboot.
Creators: So make a reboot but call it a continuation?
Corporate Overlords: Exactly!
So that's why Phase 2, ST Continues, Pacific 201, and Axxanar were so well liked, because it's dated looking? Trek don't need a reboot....fans seem to do pretty well.......CBS/Paramount is run by, to me, a bunch of BEAN COUNTERS, who THINK they are intelligent and talented, when, in reality, then are not. If Trek can be done by big time fans of the show, aka 'us geeks', better than than the suits, that sorta tells me the suits need to take a good, long look at themselves.
I don't think it's dated or too simple. Look on modern western world tv and films.......explosions, overrated and garish CGI, actors who all talk in those low whisper, Snake Plisskin wannabe voices; and double d cup **** flopping about, sexual tension, and little to no plot, story or substance.
I'm not sure on Axanar, that didn't go very far with that whole infringement thing with CBS, not a lot of people were happy after all that, especially other fan made services who were punished for it and probably a lot of people who watched these fan made shows, Axanar quietly released their two parter and sank without a trace after that. Besides that, CBS is just there to make sure Canon is respected and to have tv rights to it on their channel, but CBS isn't solely to blame for it; Secret Hideout, Roddenberry Entertainment and Living Dead Guy Productions are just as involved in creating the show and so are their EP's.
There are a lot of people involved in something of this scale and something needed to be found that everyone can get onboard with. I know you and Patrickngo are not happy with Discovery because of what it is and what it represents, but it should respected for everyone who is involved in the project.
Maybe if CBS and Paramount made....you know....GOOD STUFF.....maybe there would be less fanfilms. And Axxanar was simply the one they went after, if not Axxanar, it would have been Renegades or ST Continues or whatever. Competition worries bean counters. When it gets to the point a comedic sci fi series is able to give the official stuff some decent competition, they might wanna rethink things....though when it comes to thinking, that's a new concept for them to grasp.
And so far, CBS has done a **** poor job respecting cannon in discovery, as are all the others involved. They are pretty much going, in my opinion, saying they are 'respecting' TOS cannon, but, in actually, dropping their pants and using TOS as proverbial toilet paper. Plus all the other stuff angrytarg above mentioned.....don't see any need to respect it.
All right, let's go over this one more time, since you seem to be denser than some black holes.
CBS shot down Axanar because Alec Peters seemed convinced that he had the God-given right to do whatever the hell he wanted with Star Trek without any consequence. How do we know this? Because he stated publicly in a financial report released in December 2015, available for your perusal at Axamonitor, that he was A) paying himself and several other people a five-digit salary out of the funds donated for his amateur fan film project and pulling from the funds to use them to found a startup studio for unrelated projects. CBS filed their lawsuit three days after this report came out. Coincidence? I think not.
In contrast, Vic Micnogna over on Star Trek Continues was actually respectful of CBS and of the fact that he doesn't own Star Trek. He never had an untoward encounter with CBS Legal until Peters went on his little ego trip. Then somebody else filed a copyright complaint against it and YouTube took it down.
CBS told YouTube to put it back up.
CBS is not the bad guy here, get used to it. IP law exists for a very good reason.
/flamingdeathtotheeditmonster
IP law does exist for a very good reason, but it's not to protect the creators. After all, if it was to protect the creators, why does copyright have an expiration date? To quote the US Constitution, Congress has the power to grant copyright "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries."
Copyright law does not exist so CBS and Paramount can control what happens to Star Trek. Copyright law exists to release Star Trek into the public domain so that everyone can make use of it. And it would be in the public domain in just 4 years if not for Disney and their Sonny Bono Act, AKA "The Mickey Mouse Protection Act." Now we have to wait until like 2071, assuming Disney doesn't wrangle another extension (which they probably will).
IP law does exist for a very good reason, but it's not to protect the creators. After all, if it was to protect the creators, why does copyright have an expiration date? To quote the US Constitution, Congress has the power to grant copyright "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries."
Copyright law does not exist so CBS and Paramount can control what happens to Star Trek. Copyright law exists to release Star Trek into the public domain so that everyone can make use of it. And it would be in the public domain in just 4 years if not for Disney and their Sonny Bono Act, AKA "The Mickey Mouse Protection Act." Now we have to wait until like 2071, assuming Disney doesn't wrangle another extension (which they probably will).
Yeah, actually, it does. IP law was set up to ensure that content creators had a fair chance to profit from their creations without being ripped off, thereby encouraging the creation of new content rather than letting people simply steal ideas. You are correct, however, that the period of protection has been continually extended to the point of ludicrousness.
Useful video here, from a panel on IP law and fandom at IllogiCon. The guy in the purple shirt is Steven S. Long, who among other things wrote a number of books for the Star Trek RPG and also is a former VP for the RPG Creators Legal Defense Fund. https://youtu.be/JbnVFnBbBzE
/flamingdeathtoeditmonsters
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
IP law does exist for a very good reason, but it's not to protect the creators. After all, if it was to protect the creators, why does copyright have an expiration date? To quote the US Constitution, Congress has the power to grant copyright "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries."
Copyright law does not exist so CBS and Paramount can control what happens to Star Trek. Copyright law exists to release Star Trek into the public domain so that everyone can make use of it. And it would be in the public domain in just 4 years if not for Disney and their Sonny Bono Act, AKA "The Mickey Mouse Protection Act." Now we have to wait until like 2071, assuming Disney doesn't wrangle another extension (which they probably will).
Yeah, actually, it does. IP law was set up to ensure that content creators had a fair chance to profit from their creations without being ripped off, thereby encouraging the creation of new content rather than letting people simply steal ideas. You are correct, however, that the period of protection has been continually extended to the point of ludicrousness.
Personally I consider that to be the mechanic of the law, not the purpose, but I suppose that's just splitting hairs.
Anyway, my point is that there's no moral weight to CBS and Paramount's ownership over the Star Trek IP. The law is how it is because big entertainment corporations wooed Congress, not because they somehow deserve ownership over the IP. What Peters did was illegal, but IMO the only thing he did wrong was behave recklessly and compromise other fan works. I think he should have been allowed to make his series, but sadly the law does not agree.
I also just realized that it was my state's senator who introduced the Sonny Bono Act... shame on him.
So far, they seem to be avoiding anything with the connies and tos. As well as Klingons of TOS or TMP......so far, all we see are the fetish convention klingons....that's it, finito. I mean look what they did to the D7....give us a banana and say it's an apple. i'm pretty scared to wonder how they are gonna 'improve' the connie, should we see one. Plus, so far, none of these characters I care for. This is like, "Instead of Starfleet's best, here's the guys we prefer not to talk about". I mean I feel so sorry for anyone assigned to THAT ship.
And as for TNG, there's quite a few stories from the first 2 seasons I quite liked a lot.
Again... its still early. And I can't find any pictures of the Discovery era D7 to make a call on it.
As to avoiding the Connie... based on what I know the Discovery is doing secret research. So its safe to say she won't be drawing attention to herself by joining a fleet with any other ships. Will we see a Connie? Good chance. And for all we know they might decide to go with the Gabe Korner design to keep it retro yet modernize it. Or they could just keep the Cage look.
Also keep in mind that there are continuity errors in Trek in general. I mean... instead of the D4 in Enterprise, we saw the frickin' D7 because someone decided it would be cheeper to reuse existing assets! And for all we know this is a pre-refit D7 anyways. The D7 design has apparently been around for a LONG time, and is seen all the way through to the Dominion War in the form of the K'Tinga.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Sorry Patrickngo and Smokebailey, could you both at least lose the colorful language? No disrespect to your thoughts on the matter so far, you both have a point in what you have stated but it could be better without so much anger(?) in the way you transmit your dislike for it.
i hope i haven't come across as being disrespectful myself in the process.
Colorful language is what I use. Most of it gets covered in stars, anyhow...even harmless, words, it seems. This is how I talk, and when I criticize something, I shall rip it apart, it's the George Carlin mentality about me. I am not going to either PC myself, nor change how I talk. Sorry.
the problem with that idea is that you're not communicating clearly.
This is exactly right. People get confused because CBS is villainous in general, but in this instance it wasn't just right to shut down Axanar, it had an obligation to. Being more faithful and respectful of the source material than the rights holder doesn't give you blanket permission to steal from them to achieve your vision.
Really? the same guy who had Vulcan threatening to leave the Federation, and replaced actual sets with green screens and cheesy CGI?
So far, they seem to be avoiding anything with the connies and tos. As well as Klingons of TOS or TMP......so far, all we see are the fetish convention klingons....that's it, finito. I mean look what they did to the D7....give us a banana and say it's an apple. i'm pretty scared to wonder how they are gonna 'improve' the connie, should we see one. Plus, so far, none of these characters I care for. This is like, "Instead of Starfleet's best, here's the guys we prefer not to talk about". I mean I feel so sorry for anyone assigned to THAT ship.
And as for TNG, there's quite a few stories from the first 2 seasons I quite liked a lot.
Again... its still early. And I can't find any pictures of the Discovery era D7 to make a call on it.
As to avoiding the Connie... based on what I know the Discovery is doing secret research. So its safe to say she won't be drawing attention to herself by joining a fleet with any other ships. Will we see a Connie? Good chance. And for all we know they might decide to go with the Gabe Korner design to keep it retro yet modernize it. Or they could just keep the Cage look.
Also keep in mind that there are continuity errors in Trek in general. I mean... instead of the D4 in Enterprise, we saw the frickin' D7 because someone decided it would be cheeper to reuse existing assets! And for all we know this is a pre-refit D7 anyways. The D7 design has apparently been around for a LONG time, and is seen all the way through to the Dominion War in the form of the K'Tinga.
1. there are no images that can be found yet but there are clips that have been linked in this board. https://youtu.be/pS8NbY-FYyo
1:14 is when they start showing the Discovery "D7"
2. There's a story behind that, they had a model for D4 ready to go but TPTB keep insisting the artists to add more windows (dafuq?). The artists had came up with the d4 model after doing their major work for that show. They were very exhausted and refused to add the windows. That's how D7 model ended up being used. TPTB wouldn't give an OK on the d4 model without adding more windows....
Give the show a chance, remember the other Trek series had weak opening seasons, from a design point of view the 1960s stuff does not hold up in a modern series so things like touch pad controls instead of buttons make sense.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Give the show a chance, remember the other Trek series had weak opening seasons, from a design point of view the 1960s stuff does not hold up in a modern series so things like touch pad controls instead of buttons make sense.
I've learned to accept that Patrickngo, Crashdragon and SmokeBailey have some interesting points as to why they don't like Discovery and their point of view should be respected even if there are those who may not agree with that judgement. Hopefully some middle ground can be found so it isn't so black and white in debate in future topics on Discovery and there can be more constructive debates about what is seen, as well as making sure there aren't any debates that go around in circles for pages and with all respect, so no one feels like they come up against a "brick wall" in the attempt.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,689Community Moderator
You know... looking at the video... I can see a couple elements of that ship that could translate to the D7 we know.
If we take into consideration that the Empire is not unified yet and each House is making their own designs... Its entirely possible that the D7 we know is a combination of elements from various house designs. Taking the best and combining it into a powerful battlecruiser.
I know its a bit of a stretch, but hear me out.
The impulse engines relatively fit with the D7 we know. And in both the dorsal and ventral views we see something almost like a neck structure integrated into the hull.
We know the Klingons take what works and runs with it for decades. The D7 design being a prime example lasting all the way through the Dominion War in the 24th Century. We could be seeing something that contributed to the actual KDF D7. Right now the Empire is basically just a bunch of Shoguns working together. Not the unified Empire we see in TOS. YET.
I say lets adopt a wait and see approach. Also LOL at the Stargate and Babylon 5 references.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
You know... looking at the video... I can see a couple elements of that ship that could translate to the D7 we know.
If we take into consideration that the Empire is not unified yet and each House is making their own designs... Its entirely possible that the D7 we know is a combination of elements from various house designs. Taking the best and combining it into a powerful battlecruiser.
I know its a bit of a stretch, but hear me out.
The impulse engines relatively fit with the D7 we know. And in both the dorsal and ventral views we see something almost like a neck structure integrated into the hull.
We know the Klingons take what works and runs with it for decades. The D7 design being a prime example lasting all the way through the Dominion War in the 24th Century. We could be seeing something that contributed to the actual KDF D7. Right now the Empire is basically just a bunch of Shoguns working together. Not the unified Empire we see in TOS. YET.
I say lets adopt a wait and see approach. Also LOL at the Stargate and Babylon 5 references.
Meh. I would had preferred for the DISCO team to go with the idea of Klingons having ethnicity based on TMP movie Klingons and TNG Klingons, to allow the "religious" house exist with them all in continuity.
@smokebailey, you're getting as bad as whathisname with constant repetition of lies. The D7 is not and never was claimed to be the ship from TMP. Nobody claimed it was, any objection you have is entirely of your own making by choosing to believe it to be so.
D7 is not the name of the ship in TOS, it never has been.
The D7 from DSC is specifically referred to as a prison ship not a battlecruiser or a warbird.
D classifications are unrelated to classes of ships as the D4 and D12 are BsoP whereas the D5 and D7 are battlecruisers.
D5 refers to at least three ships, an ENT tanker, and ENT battlecruiser, and the battlecruiser from TAS.
You know all this, it has been pointed out ad nauseam so at least try to come up with valid criticism from the show itself and not some self-taken offence to your own headcanon.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
@smokebailey, you're getting as bad as whathisname with constant repetition of lies. The D7 is not and never was claimed to be the ship from TMP. Nobody claimed it was, any objection you have is entirely of your own making by choosing to believe it to be so.
D7 is not the name of the ship in TOS, it never has been.
The D7 from DSC is specifically referred to as a prison ship not a battlecruiser or a warbird.
D classifications are unrelated to classes of ships as the D4 and D12 are BsoP whereas the D5 and D7 are battlecruisers.
D5 refers to at least three ships, an ENT tanker, and ENT battlecruiser, and the battlecruiser from TAS.
You know all this, it has been pointed out ad nauseam so at least try to come up with valid criticism from the show itself and not some self-taken offence to your own headcanon.
Point 2: Despite the dialogue calling it a Klingon D7 battlecruiser?
Point 4: The "tanker" used the SAME hull as the D5 battlecruiser, hence it wasn't wrong to call it a D5 as well.
@smokebailey, you're getting as bad as whathisname with constant repetition of lies. The D7 is not and never was claimed to be the ship from TMP. Nobody claimed it was, any objection you have is entirely of your own making by choosing to believe it to be so.
D7 is not the name of the ship in TOS, it never has been.
The D7 from DSC is specifically referred to as a prison ship not a battlecruiser or a warbird.
D classifications are unrelated to classes of ships as the D4 and D12 are BsoP whereas the D5 and D7 are battlecruisers.
D5 refers to at least three ships, an ENT tanker, and ENT battlecruiser, and the battlecruiser from TAS.
You know all this, it has been pointed out ad nauseam so at least try to come up with valid criticism from the show itself and not some self-taken offence to your own headcanon.
Point 2: Despite the dialogue calling it a Klingon D7 battlecruiser?
Point 4: The "tanker" used the SAME hull as the D5 battlecruiser, hence it wasn't wrong to call it a D5 as well.
It was called a prison ship and no. It was not the same as the battlecruiser. It has different wings, different head, different neck, the only part that's the same are the nacelles.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
By the way, we've got confirmation in "Lethe" that the Constitution-class, including the Enterprise, are in service as of DSC.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
By the way, we've got confirmation in "Lethe" that the Constitution-class, including the Enterprise, are in service as of DSC.
And probably looked like the Tiger's Claw from Wing Commander. <_<;;
Lets hope not. While the Tiger Claw in teh movie wasn't a bad looking ship, she wasn't exactly the Bengal Class we knew from the game. I mean they even called it Tiger Claw instead of Tiger's Claw. At elast the music was good. And maybe if they put the outriggers on her like the original incarnation of the Claw... she might have looked better.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
By the way, we've got confirmation in "Lethe" that the Constitution-class, including the Enterprise, are in service as of DSC.
And probably looked like the Tiger's Claw from Wing Commander. <_<;;
Lets hope not. While the Tiger Claw in teh movie wasn't a bad looking ship, she wasn't exactly the Bengal Class we knew from the game. I mean they even called it Tiger Claw instead of Tiger's Claw. At elast the music was good. And maybe if they put the outriggers on her like the original incarnation of the Claw... she might have looked better.
I was referring to the game, not that god awful film.
By the way, we've got confirmation in "Lethe" that the Constitution-class, including the Enterprise, are in service as of DSC.
And probably looked like the Tiger's Claw from Wing Commander. <_<;;
No. They were talked about in the opening scene by Burnham and Tilly, they didn't appear. Point being, they are respecting the story canon, even if they're taking liberties with appearance: it's a tiny, borderline irrelevant detail from that the Connies have been in service for a while. (Contrast the rest of the series, whose main ships were brand new.)
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
Colorful language is what I use. Most of it gets covered in stars, anyhow...even harmless, words, it seems. This is how I talk, and when I criticize something, I shall rip it apart, it's the George Carlin mentality about me. I am not going to either PC myself, nor change how I talk. Sorry.
All right, let's go over this one more time, since you seem to be denser than some black holes.
CBS shot down Axanar because Alec Peters seemed convinced that he had the God-given right to do whatever the hell he wanted with Star Trek without any consequence. How do we know this? Because he stated publicly in a financial report released in December 2015, available for your perusal at Axamonitor, that he was A) paying himself and several other people a five-digit salary out of the funds donated for his amateur fan film project and
In contrast, Vic Micnogna over on Star Trek Continues was actually respectful of CBS and of the fact that he doesn't own Star Trek. He never had an untoward encounter with CBS Legal until Peters went on his little ego trip. Then somebody else filed a copyright complaint against it and YouTube took it down.
CBS told YouTube to put it back up.
CBS is not the bad guy here, get used to it. IP law exists for a very good reason.
/flamingdeathtotheeditmonster
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
This is exactly right. People get confused because CBS is villainous in general, but in this instance it wasn't just right to shut down Axanar, it had an obligation to. Being more faithful and respectful of the source material than the rights holder doesn't give you blanket permission to steal from them to achieve your vision.
Based on shows in the past, we KNOW that Starfleet has used multiple uniforms at the same time. Two of the best examples are TNG and DS9. In TNG we had a lot of people in the background still using the Season 1 uniform well into the later seasons. DS9 aired while TNG was around, and we saw TNG uniforms as well as the ones on DS9. So... The Discovery style uniforms and Cage style uniforms being in service at the same time isn't farfetched.
The Discovery Phaser may retcon the Cage Laser Pistol, BUT... it does pay tribute to the design, and astetically leads into the TOS style Phaser. I mean the Title sequence actually shows a TOS pistol getting taken apart and reassembled as a Discovery style! And in all honestly I wouldn't mind if they retconned the TOS Phaser Rifle as that thing was just epically impractical in terms of wielding. I mean it basically FORCES you to fire from the hip! But I will say the Discovery Rifle also pays tribute to the TOS one with the cylinders in the body of the rifle. We have also seen the rifle is capable of beam fire as well as bolt fire, thus keeping that in line with "later" shows that relied on beams for rifles.
In TOS we never say anything other than the Constitution class. We know for a fact there were other classes in service, yet we never saw them. Kinda doesn't make sense to only have the one class. Discovery reveals multiple classes of starship that would fit in alongside the Connie. The main reason the Connie may look so different may be based on who designed it. Maybe the Connie was a joint venture between the founding members while some of the older ships were more human designs.
The main point of contention left is the Klingons. People are assuming that CBS is totally retconning the TOS style Klingons. Yet I have to point out that the previous Star Trek show didn't and actually not only recognized the need for them, but actually GAVE us the TOS style Klingons later on. Now... is it possible that the Discovery Klingons represent the ENTIRE population of the Klingon Empire? No. We've only seen a few individuals. The Empire covers a vast territory. The Augment Virus may not have spread to cover EVERYTHING within the Empire. That means that the TOS style Klingons may not be the majority of the population. But that still doesn't explain the departure from the TMP/TNG style Klingons we saw through to Enterprise. It could mean that we're dealing with a previously unseen ethnic group with more exagurated features. Kinda like how Gorkon, his daughter, and Chang in TUC had less defined features compared to other Klingons we had seen before and since.
The point of all this is that Discovery is still only in its first season. While it may be a bit of a rocky start, it still has time to develop.
While some advocate that Star Trek "must always look forward", we do have to consider that the canon timeline does have rather big holes in it open to new stories within the Star Trek universe. The period of time between the launch of the Enterprise-B through to the launch of the Enterprise-D being a prime example. Another is the Earth-Romulan War and the founding of the Federation, which was only touched upon in Enterprise. Should these open ares in the timeline only be touched by novels? Or can we take a chance to explore these time periods in a more official capacity?
Saying Discovery is not Star Trek based on visuals alone would be like saying the 2014 Godzilla is not Godzilla because it looks nothing like the ORIGINAL black and white movie with a guy in a suit. The "throwing out Canon" argument is pretty stale as we heard many of the same arguments with Enterprise, AND Discovery is still only in its first season. Its still young.
I'm a fan of Star Trek. I like things that expand the universe. I admit I was once against the Kelvin design for the Enterprise before I actually saw the movie. The turning point was seeing her pop out of Titan. For me, Star Trek isn't just about pushing forward. Its the entire universe. The characters, the ships, the locations... The universe of Star Trek is far more than just the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.
I know I won't win any arguments with people who have already made up their minds, but I am one of those people who are willing to give things a chance.
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I mean... the first two seasons of TNG weren't that great either.
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colored text = mod mode
So far, they seem to be avoiding anything with the connies and tos. As well as Klingons of TOS or TMP......so far, all we see are the fetish convention klingons....that's it, finito. I mean look what they did to the D7....give us a banana and say it's an apple. i'm pretty scared to wonder how they are gonna 'improve' the connie, should we see one. Plus, so far, none of these characters I care for. This is like, "Instead of Starfleet's best, here's the guys we prefer not to talk about". I mean I feel so sorry for anyone assigned to THAT ship.
And as for TNG, there's quite a few stories from the first 2 seasons I quite liked a lot.
The only one of those that I'm really familiar with is Axanar, which actually looks quite different from TOS (Compare the Enterprise to the Axanar. Axanar takes as many cues from TMP as TOS), and from what we were shown it's narratively more complex than TOS. The fact that a lot of modern movies and TV shows (including DISCO, from what I've read) are gritty TRIBBLE where the lead role goes to special effects doesn't mean that the older stuff is actually good. Mind you there were some episodes of TOS that were really good, but for every Devil in the Dark you had five stories where androids took over and Kirk snoogles up to the girl of the week who had no backstory.
It's also worth noting that while DISCO seemingly isn't very well written, it does try to have character arcs, which is more than I can say about TOS.
IP law does exist for a very good reason, but it's not to protect the creators. After all, if it was to protect the creators, why does copyright have an expiration date? To quote the US Constitution, Congress has the power to grant copyright "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries."
Copyright law does not exist so CBS and Paramount can control what happens to Star Trek. Copyright law exists to release Star Trek into the public domain so that everyone can make use of it. And it would be in the public domain in just 4 years if not for Disney and their Sonny Bono Act, AKA "The Mickey Mouse Protection Act." Now we have to wait until like 2071, assuming Disney doesn't wrangle another extension (which they probably will).
Yeah, actually, it does. IP law was set up to ensure that content creators had a fair chance to profit from their creations without being ripped off, thereby encouraging the creation of new content rather than letting people simply steal ideas. You are correct, however, that the period of protection has been continually extended to the point of ludicrousness.
Useful video here, from a panel on IP law and fandom at IllogiCon. The guy in the purple shirt is Steven S. Long, who among other things wrote a number of books for the Star Trek RPG and also is a former VP for the RPG Creators Legal Defense Fund.
/flamingdeathtoeditmonsters
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Anyway, my point is that there's no moral weight to CBS and Paramount's ownership over the Star Trek IP. The law is how it is because big entertainment corporations wooed Congress, not because they somehow deserve ownership over the IP. What Peters did was illegal, but IMO the only thing he did wrong was behave recklessly and compromise other fan works. I think he should have been allowed to make his series, but sadly the law does not agree.
I also just realized that it was my state's senator who introduced the Sonny Bono Act... shame on him.
Again... its still early. And I can't find any pictures of the Discovery era D7 to make a call on it.
As to avoiding the Connie... based on what I know the Discovery is doing secret research. So its safe to say she won't be drawing attention to herself by joining a fleet with any other ships. Will we see a Connie? Good chance. And for all we know they might decide to go with the Gabe Korner design to keep it retro yet modernize it. Or they could just keep the Cage look.
Also keep in mind that there are continuity errors in Trek in general. I mean... instead of the D4 in Enterprise, we saw the frickin' D7 because someone decided it would be cheeper to reuse existing assets! And for all we know this is a pre-refit D7 anyways. The D7 design has apparently been around for a LONG time, and is seen all the way through to the Dominion War in the form of the K'Tinga.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
My character Tsin'xing
1:14 is when they start showing the Discovery "D7"
2. There's a story behind that, they had a model for D4 ready to go but TPTB keep insisting the artists to add more windows (dafuq?). The artists had came up with the d4 model after doing their major work for that show. They were very exhausted and refused to add the windows. That's how D7 model ended up being used. TPTB wouldn't give an OK on the d4 model without adding more windows....
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I've learned to accept that Patrickngo, Crashdragon and SmokeBailey have some interesting points as to why they don't like Discovery and their point of view should be respected even if there are those who may not agree with that judgement. Hopefully some middle ground can be found so it isn't so black and white in debate in future topics on Discovery and there can be more constructive debates about what is seen, as well as making sure there aren't any debates that go around in circles for pages and with all respect, so no one feels like they come up against a "brick wall" in the attempt.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
If we take into consideration that the Empire is not unified yet and each House is making their own designs... Its entirely possible that the D7 we know is a combination of elements from various house designs. Taking the best and combining it into a powerful battlecruiser.
I know its a bit of a stretch, but hear me out.
The impulse engines relatively fit with the D7 we know. And in both the dorsal and ventral views we see something almost like a neck structure integrated into the hull.
We know the Klingons take what works and runs with it for decades. The D7 design being a prime example lasting all the way through the Dominion War in the 24th Century. We could be seeing something that contributed to the actual KDF D7. Right now the Empire is basically just a bunch of Shoguns working together. Not the unified Empire we see in TOS. YET.
I say lets adopt a wait and see approach. Also LOL at the Stargate and Babylon 5 references.
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You know all this, it has been pointed out ad nauseam so at least try to come up with valid criticism from the show itself and not some self-taken offence to your own headcanon.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Point 2: Despite the dialogue calling it a Klingon D7 battlecruiser?
Point 4: The "tanker" used the SAME hull as the D5 battlecruiser, hence it wasn't wrong to call it a D5 as well.
It was called a prison ship and no. It was not the same as the battlecruiser. It has different wings, different head, different neck, the only part that's the same are the nacelles.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Okay, what episode are we talking here? The one where you said they called it a prison ship?
Are you trying to prove that the tanker and the battlecruiser of D5 are of the same basic hull like I said?
And probably looked like the Tiger's Claw from Wing Commander. <_<;;
Lets hope not. While the Tiger Claw in teh movie wasn't a bad looking ship, she wasn't exactly the Bengal Class we knew from the game. I mean they even called it Tiger Claw instead of Tiger's Claw. At elast the music was good. And maybe if they put the outriggers on her like the original incarnation of the Claw... she might have looked better.
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I was referring to the game, not that god awful film.
No. They were talked about in the opening scene by Burnham and Tilly, they didn't appear. Point being, they are respecting the story canon, even if they're taking liberties with appearance: it's a tiny, borderline irrelevant detail from that the Connies have been in service for a while. (Contrast the rest of the series, whose main ships were brand new.)
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