An extra console seems more powerful than what "gimmics" other Full Spec ships get in addition to their unique full spec ability (like Intel Gather Mechanic, or Pilot maneuvers)
I wouldn't say that; in the current state of things a decent hangar bay will out-shoot most consoles (my 23c Dread's elite To'duj can quite happily parse 10K by themselves in ISA). So I'd say that besides the headline-grabbing "first ships with 12 consoles!!" these beasts are, on first inspection, parallel to the now-quite-venerable Command Cruisers.
In any case even a basic T5, let alone a T5U, is still a perfectly viable endgame ship with a bit of effort.
Specialization was supposed to make up for not needing to create T7s.
The problem is that specialisation like the reputations are so numerous that any new ones don't add anything to the game anymore because they are so numerous it doesn't really add anything truly unique to the game. i think a revolution in development is needed before long or stagnation will become a problem and the one thing Cryptic isn't known for is stagnating for very long.
Oh really? I haven't seen Cryptic do anything yet to address the stagnation of game content. More reputations and more mark grind queues. There has not been anything new or innovative in regards to actual gameplay for years.
Not to belittle your comment but the same was said for t5 to t6 and people were just as afraid of that when Cryptic decided to move on. a lot of people didn't want the change or felt that everything they had gotten didn't really mean anything.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The problem is that specialisation like the reputations are so numerous that any new ones don't add anything to the game anymore because they are so numerous it doesn't really add anything truly unique to the game. i think a revolution in development is needed before long or stagnation will become a problem and the one thing Cryptic isn't known for is stagnating for very long.
I don't really see how you can say that
Each of the reputations is uniquely tailored to fight a specific type of enemy, and no two reputations have dealt with the same enemy, so each reputation has maintained its uniqueness in the long run.
Specializations are much the same
-Command = Team/party based bonuses
-Intel = finding vulnerabilities in enemy opponents and exploiting them
-Pilot = starship speed and maneuverability
-Temporal = lots of exotic damage powers, and DOT effects
-Commando = ground combat buffs
-Strategist = threat based
-Miracle Worker = Heals, removing debuffs and DoT effects, and damage resistance
Literally no two specializations do anything close to each other.
All of them have the same threads in common, combat and support. I don't disagree with you they have their indivudual means, but it's all towards the same thing. I'm not sure i can think of a different path of specialisation, something non combat but focuses on something else entirely, like crafting, diplomacy or scanning anomalies.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
All of them have the same threads in common, combat and support. I don't disagree with you they have their indivudual means, but it's all towards the same thing. I'm not sure i can think of a different path of specialisation, something non combat but focuses on something else entirely, like crafting, diplomacy or scanning anomalies.
You mean they all have in common the literal two things that make up combat? WHO KNEW!
Also, neither of the things you listed make sense as being specializations, there is a crafting system, that you can up your rank in, for a reason.
sorry somtaaw, but i will decline from making a further case. i'm not in the right frame of mind to give a better point of view for the moment. i hope in a few days it is possible to continue this?
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
No, i meant the stuff they get aside from that. Is there any?
Well, they have the only Zen Store 3-pack that is fully cross-faction (all 3 ships can be used by any faction)
Edit:
... and its 3 ships can fulfill almost any role: Tactical Rider with Battle Cloak, Science Multimission with hangar, and Engineering Dreadnought with some cruiser commands and hangar.
i just like how different they look
but if cruisers get extra console now and they have commands... well than sience ships need something extra too... than escort owners will want something new too even if they fly the most overpowered ships anyway... a mess
i just like how different they look
but if cruisers get extra console now and they have commands... well than sience ships need something extra too... than escort owners will want something new too even if they fly the most overpowered ships anyway... a mess
Science ships don't need anything extra, they already have both subsystem targeting and Sensor Analysis. Only ships that would have a claim to extras would be straight up Escorts and possibly Raptors.(as Raiders already have a Flanking bonus)
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
i just like how different they look
but if cruisers get extra console now and they have commands... well than sience ships need something extra too... than escort owners will want something new too even if they fly the most overpowered ships anyway... a mess
The extra console slot is great, but it is this Trait that makes them must have for me:
Redirecting Arrays
While Beam: Fire-at-Will is active, any damage that your starship receives will periodically extend its duration.
Once per sec while Beam: Fire-at-Will is active, receiving Any Damage grants 0.33 sec Duration to Fire-at-Will (15 sec total duration maximum)
Reflective Hull III
+50 Energy Dmg Resistance Rating, and Reflects 50% of incoming Energy Wpn Dmg
Lasts until 15,000 Energy Dmg has been reflected (10sec Cooldown after depleted)
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
But it is 10 sec cooldown only... and it's not only the redirected dmg, you actually get +50 all energy dmg res...
...
Btw., i wonder if "redirecting 50%" means, that the enemy will do half the damage to us (from energy weapons) in that time?
An extra Universal Console Slot, that is *extremely* useful. Along with +10 power across the board, it may as well be called T6-U. Definitely going to get that Rom ship!
Yeah saw the extra power levels and extra universal console slot. That's basically T6U. Selling us more power creep after nerfing the old into the ground. No thanks.
That's a good point. First we got a lofty speech, about having to reign in the power creep, for the long-term survivability of the game and all that, and, what, two month later, they effectively introduce T6-U. Le Sigh.
THIS^
Two points:
1) They are trying to create another viable ship build that can go up against the $500 beam boats. (cost includes all needed traits and upgrades)
2) They are nervous about the lack of income since the season 13 nerf and mass exodus of FAW Boat DPS players. It has been almost 6 months and the PvE queues are still extremely slow. More people standing around on Risa than playing the actual game.
I believe the stats in these ships will be nerfed a little in the future.
The Miracle Worker Mega Bundle ships are getting an extra console slot and more power according to the announcement posted on the site. It looks like T6 cruisers could possible get this feature with an upgrade similar to what happened to the T5 ships. Are T6U ships coming?
Probably not. Stream talk from devs today either indicated that this was intended to be a new feature for cruisers, similar to secondary deflectors or experimental weapons (cruisers only had commands, which is more like sensor analysis or subsystem targeting) or something special to miracle worker ships (depending on who you quote.)
So I would not expect this to be the start of T6U, and how this plays out in future will be something Cryptic will at some point address (either when they make more MW ships or just more cruisers, with or without these features.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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I think a lot of you are severely overestimating the benefit a single console brings to the table. I'd love to see someone do some spreadsheets charting the relative improvement one of these cruisers sees from one extra console versus the bonus an Escort gets from an Experimental Weapon or a Science Ship gets from a Secondary Deflector.
Worst case, the difference in performance between these 12-console ships and the usual 11-console ships will be comparable than the difference between a T6 and a T5U. That is to say, definitely there, but small enough not to matter in most cases.
T6U ships will not happen just like T6 Connie did not happen
One is a single ship while one is a complete game changer...
I don't think one additional console and (possibly) small boost to hull/shields for T6 ships would be a complete game changer.
I just wouldn't trust Cryptic/PWE with any further "not gonna happen" comments, especially if the brass decides game needs to be more profitable.
I do kinda agree that the specializations in some ways don't really alter gameplay as much as you would think, and honestly feel that if it were that the specialization-mechanics were tied to what primary specialization you were using over being locked to a specific type of ship they would be a bit more interesting. For instance if you had pilot as your primary you would gain the pilot maneuvers, or if you had command you would get the innovation mechanic, this would increase the variety in gameplay, and maybe even making some of the other specs abit more attractive.
Though changing it that the specialization you slotted as your primary gives you access to that specialization's unique mechanic has issues too such as hurting the appeal an uniqueness of the spec-ships via taking away their unique mechanic. Though i could see it that for the player to gain access to using the mechanic of a given specialization they have to have either bought, and/or gotten the ship-trait of the spec-ship corresponding to that specialization. Though I could also see just making it that the spec-mechanic you would gain from slotting a spec is either a weaker version compared to the one used by the spec-ship, or that using the spec-ship with the corresponding specialization gives some kind of improvement/buff.
If you look at the stats blog all of those ships in that bundle are cruisers (including the romulun ships) so pretty much sci vessels and escorts will still be on par with the new cruisers so I don't see any such thing as T6-U's coming out.
I seriously doubt that T7 will happen any time soon, maybe never.
I don't understand what the big deal with these new ships is. Let me clarify a few things for those who apparently didn't pay attention to past mega bundles:
- Miracle Worker ships have 1 extra console (universal), more power and the innovation mechanic.
What people seem to forget is that we had previous ships who also have things that no other regular T6 ship has as such:
- Intel ships have cloaks, a passive stealth mode while not cloaked and in battle (wouldn't be surprised if people didn't know that) and the gather intel mechanic that can seriously mess up your target.
- Command Battlecruisers have the inspiration mechanic and where the first ships with cruiser commands, which have since then become standard for cruisers, flight deck cruisers, dreadnoughts and Battlecruisers. The command ships also have dual cannon capability and a hangar. Battlecruisers normally don't get all of that.
- Temporal ships have different molecular settings that affect the ships performance, as well as the molecular deconstruction beam.
- Pilot ships have pilot maneuvers that give short-lived damage immunity, unlike any other ship.
In conclusion, this is not an unprecedented phenomenon, not even close. It's just that the Miracle worker ships have a very good features (console slot + innovation) compared to most. All of the above ships are superior to regular T6 ships in some way, having features no other ship category has.
Universal Console Slot
All Miracle Worker vessels will be fitted with a versatile Console equipment slot which can hold any Engineering, Science, Tactical, or Universal console.
Ergo. that's a full extra console slot (aka, simply a 12th console slot).
This literally just proves its the exact same thing as the science ships extra deflector.
It isn't a +1 to Tac, or Science, or Engineering, its a special, unique, Miracle Worker only, 12th universal slot, like science ships extra deflector, or the escort heavy weapons
Huh?! "ANY Engineering, Science, Tactical, or Universal console" denotes precisely an unconditional 12th console, and NOT 'a special, unique, Miracle Worker only' console. It could fit a Locator, or any other console you have.
I think the "special" he meant was that the miracle worker class are the ONLY ships with 12 slots (which I wish my Sci Oddy had.......... I'm addicted to rep set gear- I just can't help myself.............they just keep calling me.....they twinkle like christmas ornaments!)
Universal Console Slot
All Miracle Worker vessels will be fitted with a versatile Console equipment slot which can hold any Engineering, Science, Tactical, or Universal console.
Ergo. that's a full extra console slot (aka, simply a 12th console slot).
This literally just proves its the exact same thing as the science ships extra deflector.
It isn't a +1 to Tac, or Science, or Engineering, its a special, unique, Miracle Worker only, 12th universal slot, like science ships extra deflector, or the escort heavy weapons
Huh?! "ANY Engineering, Science, Tactical, or Universal console" denotes precisely an unconditional 12th console, and NOT 'a special, unique, Miracle Worker only' console. It could fit a Locator, or any other console you have.
I think the "special" he meant was that the miracle worker class are the ONLY ships with 12 slots (which I wish my Sci Oddy had..........
Yes, it got sorted a few pages ago. Clearly only MW ships will get this 12th console (for now?). And it will really be a 12th console. Fairly excited about that, I must say. I was gonna get the Rom Tact ship, but it's fugly as hell. Hope the skin can be changed: autumn-brown just isn't my thing.
I personally think it would be more interesting if they added a perk/project that thru the new fleet/colony holding you can exchange the spec seat/s on one of your ships (maybe limited to those that has a spec-seat) to another spec-seat of your choosing. Such a perk would make the holding pretty big draw for some, but also make it that many players that want to test out other spec-seating on their ships could. This might be a better way of making more spec-variations of the ships, without making the players feel like they are being made to rebuy the ships again for a very small change.
The Miracle Worker Mega Bundle ships are getting an extra console slot and more power according to the announcement posted on the site. It looks like T6 cruisers could possible get this feature with an upgrade similar to what happened to the T5 ships. Are T6U ships coming?
Until they specifically say in a blog that they're bringing t6u or t7 anything else is pure speculation. they could eventually decide to do a t7 but that time is not now.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
True but as I said in another thread this really seems like a T7 ship while still calling them T6 even though they have slower turn rates generally. But many Fed Cruiser's have a base turn rate of 6.
It be nice if they gave a Ship Console Upgrade... to be purchased for T5U or T6 ships -even if- they are not universal consoles; but selected based the class or how cryptic wanted to extend each class of starship. Someone claimed they lost one Lt bridge seating but it's not quite entirely true cause all Tier 6 ships have a total of 5 seat's just some have 1 Ensign, 1 Lt., 2 Lt.Comm, and 1 Commander or they have 3 Lt., 1 Lt Comm., 1 Commander generally.
While most Miracle Worker ships do have slower turn rates at least compared to many battlecruisers or warbirds the Klingon's or Romulan's had; Federation Captain's often have Cruisers with a Turn Rate of 6. So while the Innovation bonus or abilities are similar to Command, Intel or Temporal even with the +10 power; adding the extra console makes it still seem like a Tier 6a. I still don't know we'll see a Console Upgrade added to existing T5U/T6 ships however; even if I think it likely be something good to consider.
While I agree with seriousxeno that Miracle Worker ships offering Innovation Mechanic and another +10 power to ship's systems I don't suspect is where anyone has any issues. Extending max console's out to 12 is quite another story for many...
Remember TAC is the only one that exclusively buff's abilities using the (%) effectiveness above / beyond the base skill that results in far higher gain's than those you see to a base skill by a large margin. In fact only a few ENG/SCI abilities even give the option to buff skills in that manner like all TAC consoles do; EPS Power or RCS (Turn) for Engineering, Shield Capacity, Shield Regneration, or Hull Regeneration for Science. The only exception to that is the Universal Iconian Console that extends Hull Restoration & Shield Restoration by (%) with the exception of the Lobi console allowing you to heal from a disappointing amount with a base of +85.
You never see a TAC console that buff's +30 Starship Energy Weapons Training which may extend (depending on your current base modifier) the skill by 3-7% instead they all larger damage buff given by (%) which results in a 30-37.5% damage boost being far greater.
It's I suspect why many might like to see Console Upgrade being extended to any T5U/T6 ship with less than 12 consoles.
Comments
I wouldn't say that; in the current state of things a decent hangar bay will out-shoot most consoles (my 23c Dread's elite To'duj can quite happily parse 10K by themselves in ISA). So I'd say that besides the headline-grabbing "first ships with 12 consoles!!" these beasts are, on first inspection, parallel to the now-quite-venerable Command Cruisers.
In any case even a basic T5, let alone a T5U, is still a perfectly viable endgame ship with a bit of effort.
Not to belittle your comment but the same was said for t5 to t6 and people were just as afraid of that when Cryptic decided to move on. a lot of people didn't want the change or felt that everything they had gotten didn't really mean anything.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
All of them have the same threads in common, combat and support. I don't disagree with you they have their indivudual means, but it's all towards the same thing. I'm not sure i can think of a different path of specialisation, something non combat but focuses on something else entirely, like crafting, diplomacy or scanning anomalies.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
sorry somtaaw, but i will decline from making a further case. i'm not in the right frame of mind to give a better point of view for the moment. i hope in a few days it is possible to continue this?
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Well, they have the only Zen Store 3-pack that is fully cross-faction (all 3 ships can be used by any faction)
Edit:
... and its 3 ships can fulfill almost any role: Tactical Rider with Battle Cloak, Science Multimission with hangar, and Engineering Dreadnought with some cruiser commands and hangar.
but if cruisers get extra console now and they have commands... well than sience ships need something extra too... than escort owners will want something new too even if they fly the most overpowered ships anyway... a mess
Science ships don't need anything extra, they already have both subsystem targeting and Sensor Analysis. Only ships that would have a claim to extras would be straight up Escorts and possibly Raptors.(as Raiders already have a Flanking bonus)
The extra console slot is great, but it is this Trait that makes them must have for me:
...
Btw., i wonder if "redirecting 50%" means, that the enemy will do half the damage to us (from energy weapons) in that time?
THIS^
Two points:
1) They are trying to create another viable ship build that can go up against the $500 beam boats. (cost includes all needed traits and upgrades)
2) They are nervous about the lack of income since the season 13 nerf and mass exodus of FAW Boat DPS players. It has been almost 6 months and the PvE queues are still extremely slow. More people standing around on Risa than playing the actual game.
I believe the stats in these ships will be nerfed a little in the future.
Probably not. Stream talk from devs today either indicated that this was intended to be a new feature for cruisers, similar to secondary deflectors or experimental weapons (cruisers only had commands, which is more like sensor analysis or subsystem targeting) or something special to miracle worker ships (depending on who you quote.)
So I would not expect this to be the start of T6U, and how this plays out in future will be something Cryptic will at some point address (either when they make more MW ships or just more cruisers, with or without these features.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Worst case, the difference in performance between these 12-console ships and the usual 11-console ships will be comparable than the difference between a T6 and a T5U. That is to say, definitely there, but small enough not to matter in most cases.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
One is a single ship while one is a complete game changer...
I don't think one additional console and (possibly) small boost to hull/shields for T6 ships would be a complete game changer.
I just wouldn't trust Cryptic/PWE with any further "not gonna happen" comments, especially if the brass decides game needs to be more profitable.
Though changing it that the specialization you slotted as your primary gives you access to that specialization's unique mechanic has issues too such as hurting the appeal an uniqueness of the spec-ships via taking away their unique mechanic. Though i could see it that for the player to gain access to using the mechanic of a given specialization they have to have either bought, and/or gotten the ship-trait of the spec-ship corresponding to that specialization. Though I could also see just making it that the spec-mechanic you would gain from slotting a spec is either a weaker version compared to the one used by the spec-ship, or that using the spec-ship with the corresponding specialization gives some kind of improvement/buff.
My character Tsin'xing
I don't understand what the big deal with these new ships is. Let me clarify a few things for those who apparently didn't pay attention to past mega bundles:
- Miracle Worker ships have 1 extra console (universal), more power and the innovation mechanic.
What people seem to forget is that we had previous ships who also have things that no other regular T6 ship has as such:
- Intel ships have cloaks, a passive stealth mode while not cloaked and in battle (wouldn't be surprised if people didn't know that) and the gather intel mechanic that can seriously mess up your target.
- Command Battlecruisers have the inspiration mechanic and where the first ships with cruiser commands, which have since then become standard for cruisers, flight deck cruisers, dreadnoughts and Battlecruisers. The command ships also have dual cannon capability and a hangar. Battlecruisers normally don't get all of that.
- Temporal ships have different molecular settings that affect the ships performance, as well as the molecular deconstruction beam.
- Pilot ships have pilot maneuvers that give short-lived damage immunity, unlike any other ship.
In conclusion, this is not an unprecedented phenomenon, not even close. It's just that the Miracle worker ships have a very good features (console slot + innovation) compared to most. All of the above ships are superior to regular T6 ships in some way, having features no other ship category has.
"Let them eat static!"
I think the "special" he meant was that the miracle worker class are the ONLY ships with 12 slots (which I wish my Sci Oddy had.......... I'm addicted to rep set gear- I just can't help myself.............they just keep calling me.....they twinkle like christmas ornaments!)
Yes, it got sorted a few pages ago.
Until they specifically say in a blog that they're bringing t6u or t7 anything else is pure speculation. they could eventually decide to do a t7 but that time is not now.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
It be nice if they gave a Ship Console Upgrade... to be purchased for T5U or T6 ships -even if- they are not universal consoles; but selected based the class or how cryptic wanted to extend each class of starship.
While most Miracle Worker ships do have slower turn rates at least compared to many battlecruisers or warbirds the Klingon's or Romulan's had; Federation Captain's often have Cruisers with a Turn Rate of 6. So while the Innovation bonus or abilities are similar to Command, Intel or Temporal even with the +10 power; adding the extra console makes it still seem like a Tier 6a. I still don't know we'll see a Console Upgrade added to existing T5U/T6 ships however; even if I think it likely be something good to consider.
While I agree with seriousxeno that Miracle Worker ships offering Innovation Mechanic and another +10 power to ship's systems I don't suspect is where anyone has any issues. Extending max console's out to 12 is quite another story for many...
Remember TAC is the only one that exclusively buff's abilities using the (%) effectiveness above / beyond the base skill that results in far higher gain's than those you see to a base skill by a large margin. In fact only a few ENG/SCI abilities even give the option to buff skills in that manner like all TAC consoles do; EPS Power or RCS (Turn) for Engineering, Shield Capacity, Shield Regneration, or Hull Regeneration for Science. The only exception to that is the Universal Iconian Console that extends Hull Restoration & Shield Restoration by (%) with the exception of the Lobi console allowing you to heal from a disappointing amount with a base of +85.
You never see a TAC console that buff's +30 Starship Energy Weapons Training which may extend (depending on your current base modifier) the skill by 3-7% instead they all larger damage buff given by (%) which results in a 30-37.5% damage boost being far greater.
It's I suspect why many might like to see Console Upgrade being extended to any T5U/T6 ship with less than 12 consoles.
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