What on earth would be the point of monkeying with the odds? It's not like it costs them anything when someone wins a ship.
Now, that's not entirely true. When people win a prize ship (assuming they were gambling), then they stop buying more keys to open more lock boxes -- at least for the day.
Cryptic would be fool-hearted to mess with the odds, though: people would find out, the way they figure out every but of math in this game. And their margin is way large enough to never even contemplate cheating with it.
> @newromulan#1567 said:
> Without posting fixed odds, they can change things at will. If too many ships are dropping, they could always lower the drop rate. Without clear communication, they can do just about anything with the drop tables.
Except for the fact that extensive testing by numerous people not employed by Cryptic (meaning players who open several thousand boxes on tribble every time a new box comes out) has shown that they do not alter the drop rates.
Not saying that they do mess with the odds (though they absolutely could at any time), but why would they go to the trouble of also altering the odds on the Tribble test server if they did? That would make no sense whatsoever.
Not entirely true about stopping after 'winning' a (the) prize ship. The pros are looking to get as many as they can for resale (perhaps at a somewhat later date, though before it makes it into an Infinity).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Not entirely true about stopping after 'winning' a (the) prize ship. The pros are looking to get as many as they can for resale (perhaps at a somewhat later date, though before it makes it into an Infinity).
Which is why I inserted "(assuming they were gambling)." Professionals are, indeed, in it for entirely different reasons.
I did not say they were altering the odds, just that it's possible and we would never know. And because they are not posted, it could be done at anytime with impunity. I am aware that people test, and that it has shown fairly consistent odds of 1 in 200 on Lockboxs and 1 in 100 of packs. Still my point of the whole thread was wondering about the pace of packs, and key sales that seem to be accelerating.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Yes, and you know we could also be getting the 'Loss Leader Sale' during the first Weekend after a new Lockbox drops. Nothing as enticing as seeing all those 'convenientstooge@lookwhatiwon has acquired a T6 ICantBelieveIt Super Nifty Dreadnought Carrier Science Crusier'.
Up the percentage of aquisition a bit to lure more in then drop it back down after the Weekend is over. All on a timer like C-Store Sales.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I for one am curious as to why the relevant people feel that actively not disclosing the odds even passes ethical muster
I'm going with "because no one makes you pull the slot machine handle" and "I don't feel its an ethical necessity to protect the stupid from themselves." People largely exposed the nature and distribution of the rewards table with experimentation and have made those results publicly available for years now. It may require some rudimentary search skills and a willingness to read for 3-5 minutes before choosing to throw money at an unknown.
Great job at turning your entire argument into an ad hominem. shadowfirefly00 had a good point, though, not just in the USA, but in many civilized countries, companies that deal in gambling are obligated, by Law, to publish the odds. Naturally, Cryptic found a way to sleaze out from under there, by pretending the Grand Prize is just a byproduct of the lockbox content. I doubt that argument would really hold up in Court, if it ever came to that; but no one would take 'em there, of course.
Gambling laws don't usually cover stuff that isnt gambling for money. Think of other games like Fallout: New Vegas ot The Witcher 3 which have gambling in them.
Lockboxes aren't gambling at all, since they all contain items. They're like trading card packs, you know there are cards in every pack but you don't know which cards until you buy and open them.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
It is the best analog to them, really. That being said, most (maybe all?) trading card companies post odds of rarity distribution on the large boxes of packs.
The best analog to lockboxes or promo packs is a slot machine.
You put in a sum of money as a wager, and you either get more back or less back than you staked.
No, it's not. A slot machine pays out in real money while a lockbox pays out in goods. The collectible card analog is the most fitting. Slots also have tiered bets (minimum and maximum) while lockbox "wagers" are a set price.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
> @repetitiveepic said: > > Gambling laws don't usually cover stuff that isnt gambling for money. Think of other games like Fallout: New Vegas ot The Witcher 3 which have gambling in them.
NV "gambling" costs nothing of value, gives nothing of value outside the game........and it's easy to break the bank and get barred from every casino for winning to much. Doesn't compare to gamble boxes
No, it's not. A slot machine pays out in real money while a lockbox pays out in goods. The collectible card analog is the most fitting. Slots also have tiered bets (minimum and maximum) while lockbox "wagers" are a set price.
This. In the absence of real-world resale (at least within the TOS), lockbox items are worth their emotional value to players and nothing more (a variation of the Ferengi "worth the sack" rule?). Which is why I suspect they're more Pokemon than poker.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I think those packs are more like a cereal box with a prize, like "a chance to win a cruise with every purchase". Since you buy the cereal and not the "chance to win" it's not gambling in the legal sense but a promotion. Mind you the psychological effect on people is probably the same but it's not gambling and doesn't require age verification and the like.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
If you are going with the Slot Machine analogy, know that they can and often do alter the odds to win various levels of prizes coming from them. It is often done on specific types of machines.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If we're going with tortured metaphors it's most like trying to win a Golden Ticket by buying Hershey bars. Sure there's a bar of candy in there win or lose but you're not planning on eating it either way.
They can change things at will anyway. The Terms of Service (should read them, conspiracy theorists) are very clear that they can change whatever, whenever they want.
Not that there is any reason for them to tinker with the odds. The odds of winning the main ship have remained the same throughout the 5 years that lockboxes have existed. The odds of winning various other items have at times changed depending on the specific contents of each individual box. There is no great conspiracy to make You, personally, not get a lockbox ship. You are not the center of the universe.
And he reason they don't officially post the odds is because it would serve no useful purpose, just give stupid people yet another excuse to whine about opening X boxes and not getting the ship.
Seems to be less flybys of winners when I am on. Wonder if buying is slowing down. Wonder if we will get a special TNG promo box for the 30th anniversary? Maybe some unique super Special Galaxy class with a full interior?
Comments
Now, that's not entirely true. When people win a prize ship (assuming they were gambling), then they stop buying more keys to open more lock boxes -- at least for the day.
Cryptic would be fool-hearted to mess with the odds, though: people would find out, the way they figure out every but of math in this game. And their margin is way large enough to never even contemplate cheating with it.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Which is why I inserted "(assuming they were gambling)."
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
'convenientstooge@lookwhatiwon has acquired a T6 ICantBelieveIt Super Nifty Dreadnought Carrier Science Crusier'.
Up the percentage of aquisition a bit to lure more in then drop it back down after the Weekend is over. All on a timer like C-Store Sales.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
No, it's not. A slot machine pays out in real money while a lockbox pays out in goods. The collectible card analog is the most fitting. Slots also have tiered bets (minimum and maximum) while lockbox "wagers" are a set price.
>
> Gambling laws don't usually cover stuff that isnt gambling for money. Think of other games like Fallout: New Vegas ot The Witcher 3 which have gambling in them.
NV "gambling" costs nothing of value, gives nothing of value outside the game........and it's easy to break the bank and get barred from every casino for winning to much. Doesn't compare to gamble boxes
This. In the absence of real-world resale (at least within the TOS), lockbox items are worth their emotional value to players and nothing more (a variation of the Ferengi "worth the sack" rule?). Which is why I suspect they're more Pokemon than poker.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Not that there is any reason for them to tinker with the odds. The odds of winning the main ship have remained the same throughout the 5 years that lockboxes have existed. The odds of winning various other items have at times changed depending on the specific contents of each individual box. There is no great conspiracy to make You, personally, not get a lockbox ship. You are not the center of the universe.
And he reason they don't officially post the odds is because it would serve no useful purpose, just give stupid people yet another excuse to whine about opening X boxes and not getting the ship.