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Actual/real age of the Cry engine

Hello,
I heard that the STO engine still comes from the time before the game, so from Champions Online?
If it is so, how old is the engine then actually? : *
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Inapplicable. it's been rebuilt and tweaked so many time it's only superficially similar to the original form.
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  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,673 Arc User
  • jbmonroejbmonroe Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    Special Relativity tells us that we can never really know the true age of the engine since it all depends on reference frames.
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  • tacticalrooktacticalrook Member Posts: 810 Arc User
    Did you mean Cryptic's engine or CryEngine by Crytek?
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  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    Inapplicable. it's been rebuilt and tweaked so many time it's only superficially similar to the original form.

    Yes and no. Yes, they may have added a bunch of paint and spoilers, but the core mechanics of the engine are the same.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,992 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    the engine was originally built in late 1999-early 2000​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    If you need any indication of how old the original engine is..

    Someone on Reddit posted this yesterday.. a trailer for STO from 2008.



    You can see in that video just how archaiac the engine looks. I have to admit, it's amazing how much the engine has improved over the course of the games life. It might still look slightly dated at times, but it's worlds apart from what you see in that video.


    *Original thread from Reddit for the sake of giving proper credit.
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  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,051 Arc User
    huge improvements with the character models, even when the game launched, otherwise the improvements are not so obvious. I guess the lighting was the only major upgrade the engine received so far.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    baudl wrote: »
    huge improvements with the character models, even when the game launched, otherwise the improvements are not so obvious. I guess the lighting was the only major upgrade the engine received so far.

    The ship models in that video look horrific compared to what we have in game right now.
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  • kitsunesnoutkitsunesnout Member Posts: 1,210 Arc User
    baudl wrote: »
    huge improvements with the character models, even when the game launched, otherwise the improvements are not so obvious. I guess the lighting was the only major upgrade the engine received so far.

    The ship models in that video look horrific compared to what we have in game right now.

    I don't know, the Borg ships actually looked more detailed and interesting than what I remember since I last played against them unless something to do with my settings.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    What I find most fascinating about the old video is how so little stuff from the live shows was put early into STO. I remember back at the day that the whole concept of a setting 30 years after Nemesis was a huge turn off for me when the game was released. By 2012, when I started playing, I already saw much more familiar stuff in it.

    Nowadays, especially with all the actors, the game feels exactly like the Trek universe we all know thanks to the countless additions covering so much even back the TOS era.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,960 Arc User
    I would not be surprised if the basics of the engine are actually from City of Heroes, but it could be that they started a new engine with Champions Online after they sold COH?

    That isn't really saying much, though, since it's not like an engine is a fixed, never-changing thing. It's abilities can always be improved, and they clearly have been. It's the same as with any software, really. Windows 10 is basically still based on Windows NT, which is from the 90s. As is DirectX, which is used by many modern game engines...
    baudl wrote: »
    huge improvements with the character models, even when the game launched, otherwise the improvements are not so obvious. I guess the lighting was the only major upgrade the engine received so far.

    The ship models in that video look horrific compared to what we have in game right now.

    I don't know, the Borg ships actually looked more detailed and interesting than what I remember since I last played against them unless something to do with my settings.
    I kinda have the feeling that parts of the video look ... off, not quite fitting the game.

    The Galaxy Class you briefly see in there looks better lit than it was for a long time and certainly on release, and quite possibly also more detailed (though that's difficult due to the size). could be that they had far higher level models at some point that were just horrible for FPS in actual gamepaly, or they touched up the footage afterwards.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,992 Arc User
    cryptic only has one engine, the Cryptic Engine, and it's the same one they built for city of heroes - heavily upgraded, obviously​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,040 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    I would guess somewhere between 2006 and 2008.
  • maximgorkiymaximgorkiy Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Thank you :)
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    System: Micrsft. Windows 10 Pro v.21H2
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited July 2017
    The engine was initially built during the development (Yes, during. Admittedly, it wasn't the greatest idea.) on Marvel, in 2006. Some of the concepts of, and some actual code parts of the COX engine were used, but it is not the same as the COX engine.

    As others have said, it is not at all the same thing we used in 2006.

    And for those asking about age as a way of implying the engine's inherent unworthyness, how old is Unreal? How old is WoW's engine? How old is CryEngine?
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  • primar13primar13 Member Posts: 1,896 Bug Hunter
    tacofangs wrote: »
    How old is CryEngine?

    I see what you did there... :smirk:

  • ash352ash352 Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    tacofangs wrote: »
    The engine was initially built during the development (Yes, during. Admittedly, it wasn't the greatest idea.) on Marvel, in 2006. Some of the concepts of, and some actual code parts of the COX engine were used, but it is not the same as the COX engine.

    As others have said, it is not at all the same thing we used in 2006.

    And for those asking about age as a way of implying the engine's inherent unworthyness, how old is Unreal? How old is WoW's engine? How old is CryEngine?

    I'll make the same complaint I make anytime anyone brings up WoW's engine. Using a heavily modified version of the Warcraft 3 engine doesn't mean it's ok, especially when it's showing it's age and the limitations those devs constantly complain about. (Can't do anything to the default bag as everything about a character is tied to that. Being unable to add new UI interfaces without reusing older once like how the Void Storage is the original Key Ring re-purposed. Etc) Making large updates like overhauling the graphics part of the engine doesn't magically discount the valid complaints about how lacking it is in other areas compared to newer, and more flexible, engines.

    That's not to say I don't understand where you're coming from that you can always update and try to improve various parts. That being said, there are various issues and limitations and just general "this doesn't feel good to play" (Ground combat being a clunky mess at points for one example) that come about from using a decades old engine that can make players want you to update it to a brand new one because we're tired of dealing with the limitations of the old one that can't ever seem to be fixed or improved.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    The space doesn't look too bad, but the ground characters... ewww.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    tacofangs wrote: »
    And for those asking about age as a way of implying the engine's inherent unworthyness, how old is Unreal? How old is WoW's engine? How old is CryEngine?

    No engine is perfect, but I actually like the STO engine. It does look dated when it comes to faces and certain ground animations, but I think the space part of the game (the part that's important to me) looks great. Some of the ship models and details look excellent when you're able to play on the maximum settings.

    People also have to remember that engines designed for MMO's are designed to be accessible to as many people as possible. That's why MMO's don't usually have the 'top of the line' graphics that other games might have. They're designed to be run on commonly found computers. Still, I think overall, that STO looks good.. it looks a heck of a lot better then it does on that trailer, so kudos to the team for keeping it updated as the game progressed.

    To me, WoW looks just as horrible today as it did the day it came out.
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  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    ash352 wrote: »
    tacofangs wrote: »
    The engine was initially built during the development (Yes, during. Admittedly, it wasn't the greatest idea.) on Marvel, in 2006. Some of the concepts of, and some actual code parts of the COX engine were used, but it is not the same as the COX engine.

    As others have said, it is not at all the same thing we used in 2006.

    And for those asking about age as a way of implying the engine's inherent unworthyness, how old is Unreal? How old is WoW's engine? How old is CryEngine?

    I'll make the same complaint I make anytime anyone brings up WoW's engine. Using a heavily modified version of the Warcraft 3 engine doesn't mean it's ok . . .

    What about Wow using Warcraft 3's Engine isn't OK? Without using that engine, we wouldn't have WoW at all. Just as without the engine developed for Marvel, and used in Champions, we wouldn't have STO, or Neverwinter. Yes, there are always issues. Yes, some of them are much, much harder to solve than others. But at the end of the day, I'm glad Wow exists, just as I'm glad STO Exists, and I'm glad Neverwinter exists.




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  • meurikmeurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    I'd like to add one game to the discussion...

    While not an MMO, DOTA2 essentially threw out it's original engine, and replaced it with an updated "Source 3" engine. Game is pretty old, but the engine is relatively fresh. I am not a programmer, or have any knowledge in the difficulties involved, but I do know it's certainly possible to update a game with a new engine. Not just "tweaks" or "enhancements" which have been done over and over for games like WoW or STO.
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  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    Everything is built on the foundation of what came before. It takes more man/hours than I care to count to build a new game engine, but it takes many more to give it the bells and whistles that make a great game. Why abandon all of that effort when you can continue making the engine you have better?

    Sure, you reach limits, but eventually, when a new, better, game engine comes out, the first thing players will encounter is limits the new game engine was not designed to overcome.
  • theyredeadjimtheyredeadjim Member Posts: 243 Arc User
    primar13 wrote: »
    tacofangs wrote: »
    How old is CryEngine?

    I see what you did there... :smirk:

    Taco put his war face on :P
  • meurikmeurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    Its an MMO what do you guys expect honestly?

    Probably the worst possible excuse you could make. Look at a game like EVE Online (space-based MMO, existed longer than STO). And compare it's visuals to STO). I'm not saying that STO visuals are bad. But EVE is definitely better looking.
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    meurik wrote: »
    Its an MMO what do you guys expect honestly?

    Probably the worst possible excuse you could make. Look at a game like EVE Online (space-based MMO, existed longer than STO). And compare it's visuals to STO). I'm not saying that STO visuals are bad. But EVE is definitely better looking.
    here's an important question though how do EVE's system demands compared to STO?

    MMOs don't have "out-of-date" graphics because there's no competent people working on most MMOs but rather older graphics are generally easier to run for MMO, the question for an MMO developer generally is "do I want better graphics but larger system demands" or "lower system demands but have to compromise on graphical level".
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    Everything is built on the foundation of what came before. It takes more man/hours than I care to count to build a new game engine, but it takes many more to give it the bells and whistles that make a great game. Why abandon all of that effort when you can continue making the engine you have better?

    Sure, you reach limits, but eventually, when a new, better, game engine comes out, the first thing players will encounter is limits the new game engine was not designed to overcome.
    there's also the matter that a new engine is unfamiliar to the developers and might be untested (if it's a newly developed engine), so things might end up looking worse if the developer isn't careful.

    the thing is that these things rarely come down to laziness but rather a risk/reward estimate we rarely witness.
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