NPC Leveling disturbingly to high.

bjornfried · July 2017

It doesn't matter how far in my leveltree my toon is.
Everytime when i come back to play some low level missions the npcs are seriously overpowerd.
So it happens that my AOY, now fleet admiral, has to fight of ships and standard Npcs that still are 30 levels higher, than him.
Playing re-runs on normal, advanced or elite doesn't change anything.
And then Kor keeps kicking the holy TRIBBLE out of you with a wink of his eye. Even though he should at least have problems to stay alive.

What the Hell have you done people? That's not "upscalling to player levels", that is overpowering.
Even SWTOR did that job better.

aspartan1 · July 2017

I have kept elite setting as my default since game release back in the day. I secretly hoped there was an accolade for doing everything on elite but sadly there is nothing.... Nonetheless, recently elite has been a bear and a serious grind. I had one battle last last nearly an hour!!

Unknown · July 2017

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jaguarskx · July 2017

Yeah, NPCs do scale up in difficulty past level 50. I generally do not notice it until about level 56. However, my max level characters on my secondary free to play only STO account has so far been able to manage completing the missions with the free T5 ships selected at level 40 and very rare Mk XII gear.

I am slowly working on upgrading some weapons and tactical consoles to Mk XIV for the characters on that account; but I don't think I will bother attempting to push them beyond ultra rare.

duncanidaho11 · July 2017

Players can explode for a variety of reasons, so the OP may want to run some productive troubleshooting on their topic.

First of all, it would be useful to know exactly which enemies they're trying to take on, in what missions, and what their levels are. If we don't know exactly what the problem is, there isn't much we (or the devs) can do except sympathize. Always provide detail. This can also include the HP of the ships they're fighting (mouse over their health bars in the target info pane) and confirmation on enemy level relative to player (that number should be a green zero, ie. the same).

Secondly, the problem might not be with the NPC's. Early STO content is very forgiving to new players. If one doesn't learn, doesn't change their equipment, they'll find that later STO enemies (including those they find in replayed missions, those will always scale to your current level) will hit a lot harder because the game is expecting growth and learning (that's standard to RPG's). The OP may want to provide details about their ship, equipment, skills, ect. That way we in the forums can help sort out anything that might be going on at the player side (making this an easy fix).

Third, in the main options menu the OP may also want to check to make sure they are on "normal" difficulty. For all we know, the OP may have flipped that recently (so, eliminate it from consideration.)

dracounguis · July 2017

azrael605 wrote: »

No idea what your on about OP. There is no npc in the game thats even been a challenge.

No single one, but I remember the old Roumlan missions where a group of NPCs would have 2-3 Medics and it was just a game of whack-a-mole as they'd keep rez'ing each other.

markhawkman · July 2017

dracounguis wrote: »

azrael605 wrote: »

No idea what your on about OP. There is no npc in the game thats even been a challenge.

No single one, but I remember the old Roumlan missions where a group of NPCs would have 2-3 Medics and it was just a game of whack-a-mole as they'd keep rez'ing each other.

You're supposed to kill them all.

Dead enemies can't rez each other.

But seriously... never seen any situation in-game where enemies would be 30 levels higher.

seaofsorrows · July 2017

bjornfried wrote: »

So it happens that my AOY, now fleet admiral, has to fight of ships and standard Npcs that still are 30 levels higher, than him.

Where exactly did you encounter an enemy 30 levels higher then you?

I would really like to know.

redbeard · July 2017

Only time I have ever seen that occur is when a low level player teams with a high level player and the low level player didn't click to match the high level player. Or if the team leader is a low level player and invites a high level player who didn't match the low level player.

As for just repeating low level missions as a level 60 I've not encountered this.

duncanidaho11 · July 2017

seaofsorrows wrote: »

bjornfried wrote: »

So it happens that my AOY, now fleet admiral, has to fight of ships and standard Npcs that still are 30 levels higher, than him.

Where exactly did you encounter an enemy 30 levels higher then you?

I would really like to know.

My take:
1. It's hyperbole.
2. They brought a ship they had 30 levels ago into a corresponding episode and were surprised that the NPC's had scaled up.

In any case, more details from the OP would be of great help to this topic (otherwise, all we can do is shrug and move on.)

nikephorus · July 2017

The only wonky one I know of is Tholian Alert. It's a normal difficulty mission so it lowers player characters to 50, but all the NPC's are left at 60 for some reason.

odinforever20000 · July 2017

nikephorus wrote: »

The only wonky one I know of is Tholian Alert. It's a normal difficulty mission so it lowers player characters to 50, but all the NPC's are left at 60 for some reason.

Dyson Zone does that too..It doesnt help the NPCs with me

nikephorus · July 2017

odinforever20000 wrote: »

nikephorus wrote: »

The only wonky one I know of is Tholian Alert. It's a normal difficulty mission so it lowers player characters to 50, but all the NPC's are left at 60 for some reason.

Dyson Zone does that too..It doesnt help the NPCs with me

Interesting. I haven't done Dyson recently so I didn't know that.

rattler2 · July 2017

Actually... I believe the first arc for TOS characters is what he is referring to.

silverlobes · July 2017

OP, I believe what you're experiencing (if you are indeed refering to the events surrounding the Battle of Caleb IV) is that the plot of the mission requires the player to lose, thus no matter what tricks or boff abilities may be used, the game itself, will always still overcome. Think of it like Final Destination, where Death eventually caught up to everyone who had originally 'got away with it', because when it's you're time, it's your time. The mission will always require the player to lose, so the NPCs will always win

Unknown · July 2017

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Unknown · July 2017

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darakoss · July 2017

bjornfried wrote: »

azrael605 wrote: »

No idea what your on about OP. There is no npc in the game thats even been a challenge.

Try Agents of Yesterday. get to level 50, do the battle of Caleb IV, then we talk again. THERE IS! Showoff.

I did it with my lvl 60 AOY toon. I zerged through it til the pre-appointed time when the story says I lose. Not really hard at all. @azrael605 is right.

silverlobes · July 2017

bjornfried wrote: »

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

OP, I believe what you're experiencing (if you are indeed refering to the events surrounding the Battle of Caleb IV) is that the plot of the mission requires the player to lose, thus no matter what tricks or boff abilities may be used, the game itself, will always still overcome. Think of it like Final Destination, where Death eventually caught up to everyone who had originally 'got away with it', because when it's you're time, it's your time. The mission will always require the player to lose, so the NPCs will always win

With the slight problem that this happens even in the standard missions.
And since my loss is scripted, it doesnt matter if i kibk him through his ship, like the ragdoll he should be.
No need for overleveling Npcs.
He kills me with the first shot he does. Doesn't even need his Powermove. And that my friend is bull.
Especially with Mark 12 gear on my Admiral.
So nice try to explain it to me.
But nope, not gonna buy it.
I have played AOY since day one and back then all was, as it should be. Set the game on the lowest difficulty, go back after a couple of levels and have a good time replaying the best mission STO ever had. But now its a pain in the A**.
Even on Level 60 on normal.
Like i said, same thing happens with every map with an "important boss" in it. Some npcs get to have 30 or more levels more than you, just to anoy you and make your ship blow, which isn't even happening that often, since we learnedto use our A games. So that kind of upscaling belongs in to the trash.
Come on guys i just want to use my oldschool conny and have some fun, like allways.
In my 4 years i never had that kind of trouble on a normal game.

What tier is your oldschool Conny? If it's the T1, then yes, when you hit L60, taking that ship into a replay, will get it blown out from under you (I've had this happen with the original NX, which I only purchased at a +L50, although embarassingly, the T1 Miranda was quite capable of completing Midnight) Like I said, if you're in a mission which requires you to be defeated As A Plot Point, there's nothing which you can do as a player to prevent that from happening: The Game will Always overcome whatever you throw at it, because that's what the Plot Requires

rattler2 · July 2017

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

What tier is your oldschool Conny? If it's the T1, then yes, when you hit L60, taking that ship into a replay, will get it blown out from under you (I've had this happen with the original NX, which I only purchased at a +L50, although embarassingly, the T1 Miranda was quite capable of completing Midnight) Like I said, if you're in a mission which requires you to be defeated As A Plot Point, there's nothing which you can do as a player to prevent that from happening: The Game will Always overcome whatever you throw at it, because that's what the Plot Requires

I remember running into lv 60 NPCs in space when I tried replaying the one where you investigate K-13 with the neural parasites. I got scaled down to first run level (10 or so I think) while the NPCs in space were my actual level.

As to plot... you can be the same level and still have the "death" as scripted if you meet the objectives. It has nothing to do with how strong they have to be. You achieve the objectives, script says X happens.

Unknown · July 2017

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silverlobes · July 2017

rattler2 wrote: »

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

What tier is your oldschool Conny? If it's the T1, then yes, when you hit L60, taking that ship into a replay, will get it blown out from under you (I've had this happen with the original NX, which I only purchased at a +L50, although embarassingly, the T1 Miranda was quite capable of completing Midnight) Like I said, if you're in a mission which requires you to be defeated As A Plot Point, there's nothing which you can do as a player to prevent that from happening: The Game will Always overcome whatever you throw at it, because that's what the Plot Requires

I remember running into lv 60 NPCs in space when I tried replaying the one where you investigate K-13 with the neural parasites. I got scaled down to first run level (10 or so I think) while the NPCs in space were my actual level.

As to plot... you can be the same level and still have the "death" as scripted if you meet the objectives. It has nothing to do with how strong they have to be. You achieve the objectives, script says X happens.

Exactly

silverlobes · July 2017

azrael605 wrote: »

I have replayed Caleb IV about 8 times with my AoY character Elliot Spencer. Elliot has been level 60 for quite a while, at least six months. Never had any trouble with it. I replay story missions often so I'll do one better & I'll go replay it right now just in case some of those s13 changes which some like to complain about & I never noticed had any effect at all.

And I'd wager that you won't notice any effect this time either, and that Admiral Spencer windes up getting snared by an unbreakable tractor beam, punched out by Kor, and eventually blown up by a mob of Klingon ships, which will cling to his hull as if by magnet

Unknown · July 2017

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silverlobes · July 2017

azrael605 wrote: »

So after replay, it was exactly the same as last time I played it. The first space fight is cake, the ground portion is cake with frosting (except Kor cause he is a beast, rightly so, Colicos would approve), and the second space portion I was at 100 percent hull & shields when my scripted death occured. I did have a brief moment when first starting the mission where I thought the OP might possibly be right, but then I noticed I had my difficulty set to elite, left the system & fixed that then jumped back in

Unknown · July 2017

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chiyoumiku · July 2017

I've noticed a few differences between my TOS Toon (Currently the T4 Ranger Class, no space rep traits, working on him like mad despite him being at 60 with moderate fleet gear) and my Main, Chiyo who has a T5U vesta with all UR componants using stats that reflect her build. I have very little issue with the current AI on Chiyo vs my TOS toon. But again it may be due to the fact that Chiyo has more work done to her than any of my orher 4 toons. Maybe Chiyo blows up once in a while on a new Featured Episode but that's because it was either a lucky critical or in most cases I wasn't paying attention.

Hard to say it feels like it is overpowered in some places and not others. Mind you the Vaadwaur move around like chickens with their heads cut off and the Naz'khul are seriosuly overshield/health buffed.

Unknown · July 2017

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silverlobes · July 2017

azrael605 wrote: »

> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> So after replay, it was exactly the same as last time I played it. The first space fight is cake, the ground portion is cake with frosting (except Kor cause he is a beast, rightly so, Colicos would approve), and the second space portion I was at 100 percent hull & shields when my scripted death occured. I did have a brief moment when first starting the mission where I thought the OP might possibly be right, but then I noticed I had my difficulty set to elite, left the system & fixed that then jumped back in
>
>
>
>

I never disputed that the mission ends with the "death" of your character.

No, clearly just determined to respond in the contrary to anything I write

And missed that I was laughing with you, not at you, because you had proven my point, which the OP seemed unwilling to acknowledge: That no matter what, if the game demands a player lose for Plot Points, the player will lose

Unknown · July 2017

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silverlobes · July 2017

azrael605 wrote: »

Ok, I'll grant that I missunderstood what you were getting at silverlobes. I was not interested in being contrary per se.

Accepted

NPC Leveling disturbingly to high.

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