It's funny though... Since everyone in this game is a DPS'er. Whether they admit it or not. Until we get STFs where you can heal an enemy to death or simply survive a timer under heavy fire to win, everyone uses DPS to win. All STFs require you to kill something, and the only way to do that is to output damage.
I'm sure many people don't like you saying that... but it's absolutely true.
In case you missed my previous question, I'll post it again: Out of idle curiousity, where would you place the following build on the DPS scale?
7xMk XII vr Polaron turrets @ 132(estimated) DPS per turret.
Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo launcher, firing with Spread II. @ 416.4(estimated DPS)
1xMk XII vr Polaron Phase Modulator @ +??%
We're these numbers taken on ground, because for a Mk XII VR Turret it doesn't feel like it should be that low (Cat1 from mark alone should have it above that since turrets have a base damage of ~101 damage per shot); same goes for the QP torp.
Also what's the @ +??% part of the Polaric modulator supposed to be?
--- @alcaatraz || I make tanks and do maths stuffs ---
I didn't use word combination "common knowledge" anywhere in my original post. And I don't expect anyone to sit through anything. My main point was people have the resources where from they can learn (some of them explaining stuff very thoroughly), if they *want* to chase high DPS numbers and don't want to figure hard stuff out. If they don't, everything basic is available from game.
yes you didn't say "common knowledge" you only merely said "it is not un-common knowledge"
which merely means the same.
in response to post justifying that to someone who didn't pursued advanced knowledge on mechanics, things that high end dpsers are doing may feel like some sort for exploits and abusing "broken mechanics" which was response to you making fun of people making such a claim.
while they could just as well split those changes into small packages released over time every update of even every second one - in which case over tiem they would reach the same spot in terms of balancing - but without people being so upset about their toys being nerfed so much.....
I thought about that initially then I realized just from my own behavior during that time that it would probably not have worked out well for Cryptic had they released the balance pass in piecemeal.
When news first came out of a ground balance pass, I immediately stopped spending in the game. Everything from Dilithium to EC and Zen. I stopped because once I heard of the ground balance pass, I knew space wasn't going to be far behind. I have not spent anything since then until now because I am waiting to see if things truly settled down. I do not want to spend on anything that may be re-adjusted just a few weeks/months later. I have not even bothered to adjust and rebuild my alts now as well because of that.
If I thought about doing that, I wonder how many other players did the same.
Now if Cryptic had decided to release the balance pass in piecemeal, that period of non-spending will probably go longer for me and many others. There is also the possibility that those who try to adapt as the balance process went on would get burnt out with the constant changes taking place.
I think Cryptic did well by dumping a huge lump of changes in one go in this case.
well let me straight it up - I have meant in a way attached to normal regular release schedule without blasting the trumpets "we are rebalancing them game".
so what would cryptic lost would be attemtping of building up a hype for "new balanced game" and pvp-related reputation release meant to capitalise on said hype [probably?]
the thought was born throught comparing current STO case to few other MMOs I keep track on which actually valued proper balancing from the very start and from the very start periodic balancing passes are regular activity.
and while often there is alot of talks and argument over each balancing pass, - thanks to avoidance of bunching up big changes together - it is where it ends - on talks and arguments on forums/ingame chat - without hits to actuall playerbase - and also even whithin same titles when there was an expansion release providing an actuall big hit to the balance status - the playerbase was receiving a hit due to overal upsettness over the scale of "sudden" [because for some people changes are always sudden regardless of how much you are yelling about them beforehand] changes. but regular stream of seemingly minor changes over time seems to work considerably well out there in other games of same genre.
[also btw I have also at that time withheld spending on STO but for me it was mostly to see how the situation unravels - because at that time it seemed to me that depending on how they do it they will likely either fix the game of kill it out - so risky period to invest into it ]
but I was lead to believe that the faster cyclic rate of the turret, combined with the frequency of use ( seven turrets firing = more frequently than one turret firing) meant that the resulting procs, would be good
This was true pre S13 where some procs were per shot. Post S13, weapon procs are now per cycle.
And that's exactly the point I'm making: S13 chopped everyone off at the knees.
I disagree in here - testign on my side provides me with information that most of my preS13 builds have actually kept their overal performance at same level - with shifts in distribution of that performance [some part of the build works better some worse] and these were builds from around 20-30k dps which is kinda lowendy
so I'd say for the case of these specific low end builds I have not been "chopped off at the knees" but I have basically got my crutches replaced
[and can no longer go for space elites just because lulz, due to high end performers I used to run these with not being able to carry my dead weight anymore.....]
It's funny though... Since everyone in this game is a DPS'er. Whether they admit it or not. Until we get STFs where you can heal an enemy to death or simply survive a timer under heavy fire to win, everyone uses DPS to win. All STFs require you to kill something, and the only way to do that is to output damage.
I'm sure many people don't like you saying that... but it's absolutely true.
In case you missed my previous question, I'll post it again: Out of idle curiousity, where would you place the following build on the DPS scale?
7xMk XII vr Polaron turrets @ 132(estimated) DPS per turret.
Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo launcher, firing with Spread II. @ 416.4(estimated DPS)
1xMk XII vr Polaron Phase Modulator @ +??%
We're these numbers taken on ground, because for a Mk XII VR Turret it doesn't feel like it should be that low (Cat1 from mark alone should have it above that since turrets have a base damage of ~101 damage per shot); same goes for the QP torp.
Taken from the table here, which is why I labeled them as estimated
Also what's the @ +??% part of the Polaric modulator supposed to be?
Translation: Polaron Phase Modulator doing an additional WhoKnowsWhat percent (because I couldn't find the value listed in the statistics available online, so acknowledged it as an unknown variable )
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
1. The pre S13 skill tree reset made all kinds of builds able to perform well, not just the FAW, cookie cutter-esque "DPS channel" builds. You didn't need to watch hours of boring YouTube videos to put together something decent.
2. Even though almost all builds were now perfectly viable (with a bit of knowledge), many people still had the need to use the FAW, cookie-cutter-esque DPS channel builds. Instead of making varied builds, many, many people still used builds that yielded the easiest results.
3. Nerfapalooza
4. Now the "fun" kooky builds are garbage more often than not, and build variety is back to where it was pre-skill revamp.
5. Cryptic gets to make people buy and upgrade all new stuff for their builds.
6. Queues are dead.
7. There are a lot of people not wanting to buy things for a build, because they assume it's a temporary money grab that will get nerfed when it stops selling well.
but I was lead to believe that the faster cyclic rate of the turret, combined with the frequency of use ( seven turrets firing = more frequently than one turret firing) meant that the resulting procs, would be good
This was true pre S13 where some procs were per shot. Post S13, weapon procs are now per cycle.
And that's exactly the point I'm making: S13 chopped everyone off at the knees.
I disagree in here - testign on my side provides me with information that most of my preS13 builds have actually kept their overal performance at same level - with shifts in distribution of that performance [some part of the build works better some worse] and these were builds from around 20-30k dps which is kinda lowendy
so I'd say for the case of these specific low end builds I have not been "chopped off at the knees" but I have basically got my crutches replaced
[and can no longer go for space elites just because lulz, due to high end performers I used to run these with not being able to carry my dead weight anymore.....]
Due to access issues, I only had enough time on someone else's PC the other day, to be able to test one build. I have other builds with different mechanics, but that one is 'my main's main', so that was the one I most wanted to check up on (knowing that the concept of the build involved procs and CodeMagic, rather than straight up output, so most likely to be noticeably affected)
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
It's funny though... Since everyone in this game is a DPS'er. Whether they admit it or not. Until we get STFs where you can heal an enemy to death or simply survive a timer under heavy fire to win, everyone uses DPS to win. All STFs require you to kill something, and the only way to do that is to output damage.
I'm sure many people don't like you saying that... but it's absolutely true.
In case you missed my previous question, I'll post it again: Out of idle curiousity, where would you place the following build on the DPS scale?
7xMk XII vr Polaron turrets @ 132(estimated) DPS per turret.
Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo launcher, firing with Spread II. @ 416.4(estimated DPS)
1xMk XII vr Polaron Phase Modulator @ +??%
We're these numbers taken on ground, because for a Mk XII VR Turret it doesn't feel like it should be that low (Cat1 from mark alone should have it above that since turrets have a base damage of ~101 damage per shot); same goes for the QP torp.
Taken from the table here, which is why I labeled them as estimated
Also what's the @ +??% part of the Polaric modulator supposed to be?
Translation: Polaron Phase Modulator doing an additional WhoKnowsWhat percent (because I couldn't find the value listed in the statistics available online, so acknowledged it as an unknown variable )
The Polaric Phase modulators should be +30% at VR Mk XII
If that's all you have, I can give an estimated DPS number (its not going to be a complete/accurate since you're missing traits and things).
Assuming 100 Weapon power and 50 Aux power for ease of calculation
A single VR Mk XII Polaron console (+30%), and the VR MK XII Chronometric Capacitor (+20%)
Combined CrtH of 4.67%
Combined CrtD of 64.2%
7 Mk XII VR Polaron Turrets (Base 101 - assuming all [Acc] mods)
1 Mk XII VR Quantum phase torp
Level 60 gives +50% Cat1
Turrets
- Base of 101
- 120.4% Cat1 from Mark
- 7.5% Cat1 from Rarity
101*(1+0.5+1.204+0.2+0.3+0.075)*(((1-0.04.67)*(1+0))+((0.04.67)*(1+0.642)))
= 331 Damage per shot
- 6 shots over 5 seconds
331*(6/5)
= 397.2 DPS
Totaling 2780.4 DPS for 7
Torp
- Base of 1500
- 120.4% Cat1 from Mark
- 7.5% Cat1 from Rarity
- +2% CrtH From [CrtH] mod
- +40% CrtD from [CrtD]x2 mod
1500*(1+0.5+1.20.4+0.075)*(((1-0.04.67-0.02)*(1+0))+((0.04.67+0.02)*(1+0.642+0.4)))
= 4255 Damage per shot
- 1 shots over 8 seconds
4255*(1/8)
= 531 DPS
Together, that makes 3311.4 DPS.
Of course this isn't a good representation, but its only an estimation, and changes a lot depending on what your ability use is, distance to target (not taken into account), cat2 (which this uses none), and traits, skills, and such.
--- @alcaatraz || I make tanks and do maths stuffs ---
It's funny though... Since everyone in this game is a DPS'er. Whether they admit it or not. Until we get STFs where you can heal an enemy to death or simply survive a timer under heavy fire to win, everyone uses DPS to win. All STFs require you to kill something, and the only way to do that is to output damage.
I'm sure many people don't like you saying that... but it's absolutely true.
In case you missed my previous question, I'll post it again: Out of idle curiousity, where would you place the following build on the DPS scale?
7xMk XII vr Polaron turrets @ 132(estimated) DPS per turret.
Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo launcher, firing with Spread II. @ 416.4(estimated DPS)
1xMk XII vr Polaron Phase Modulator @ +??%
We're these numbers taken on ground, because for a Mk XII VR Turret it doesn't feel like it should be that low (Cat1 from mark alone should have it above that since turrets have a base damage of ~101 damage per shot); same goes for the QP torp.
Taken from the table here, which is why I labeled them as estimated
Also what's the @ +??% part of the Polaric modulator supposed to be?
Translation: Polaron Phase Modulator doing an additional WhoKnowsWhat percent (because I couldn't find the value listed in the statistics available online, so acknowledged it as an unknown variable )
The Polaric Phase modulators should be +30% at VR Mk XII
If that's all you have, I can give an estimated DPS number (its not going to be a complete/accurate since you're missing traits and things).
Assuming 100 Weapon power and 50 Aux power for ease of calculation
A single VR Mk XII Polaron console (+30%), and the VR MK XII Chronometric Capacitor (+20%)
Combined CrtH of 4.67%
Combined CrtD of 64.2%
7 Mk XII VR Polaron Turrets (Base 101 - assuming all [Acc] mods)
1 Mk XII VR Quantum phase torp
Level 60 gives +50% Cat1
Turrets
- Base of 101
- 120.4% Cat1 from Mark
- 7.5% Cat1 from Rarity
101*(1+0.5+1.204+0.2+0.3+0.075)*(((1-0.04.67)*(1+0))+((0.04.67)*(1+0.642)))
= 331 Damage per shot
- 6 shots over 5 seconds
331*(6/5)
= 397.2 DPS
Totaling 2780.4 DPS for 7
Torp
- Base of 1500
- 120.4% Cat1 from Mark
- 7.5% Cat1 from Rarity
- +2% CrtH From [CrtH] mod
- +40% CrtD from [CrtD]x2 mod
1500*(1+0.5+1.20.4+0.075)*(((1-0.04.67-0.02)*(1+0))+((0.04.67+0.02)*(1+0.642+0.4)))
= 4255 Damage per shot
- 1 shots over 8 seconds
4255*(1/8)
= 531 DPS
Together, that makes 3311.4 DPS.
Of course this isn't a good representation, but its only an estimation, and changes a lot depending on what your ability use is, distance to target (not taken into account), cat2 (which this uses none), and traits, skills, and such.
Thank you for working out the math That's a pretty low DPS output (and I wasn't expecting it to be high) but it's gotten me through plenty of content thus far
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Not had a chance to read the whole thread, but just adding some of what I've seen.
Season 13 has led to the lowest point of activity that I've ever seen for the DPS Channels. Engagement in high end DPS stuff had already been dropping quite a bit over the last year, but S13 ultimately killed off most of what was left.
Fleet wise, I've heard/ seen many fleets lose a bit of the activity they've had, which was already at a low point. I know we've lost a few in TBC from S13, but thankfully we haven't seen as much of a hit as I've seen other fleets in our armada take.
If S13 was meant to help PvP or balance consoles out before it was too late, I don't think it's been a success there either.
I've been told by some console fleet leaders that they've seen ~50% loss in activity since S13 went live there.
As for PvP, while there is certainly a little more activity there now, the PvP queues are still at 0 most of the time, and it's still pretty much the same core group of players its always been. There isn't really much new activity there, and if there is, they're pushed away due to there still being such extreme things that completely ruin the experience (ultra high speed, drains, protonic science consoles, placates, disable lockout not working, etc).
I plan on doing a video soon discussing this topic a bit. I figured it wasn't going to go over well, but I didn't think it'd end as badly as it has.
Thanks for making the thread and getting a discussion going @tunebreaker
Not had a chance to read the whole thread, but just adding some of what I've seen.
Season 13 has led to the lowest point of activity that I've ever seen for the DPS Channels. Engagement in high end DPS stuff had already been dropping quite a bit over the last year, but S13 ultimately killed off most of what was left.
Fleet wise, I've heard/ seen many fleets lose a bit of the activity they've had, which was already at a low point. I know we've lost a few in TBC from S13, but thankfully we haven't seen as much of a hit as I've seen other fleets in our armada take.
If S13 was meant to help PvP or balance consoles out before it was too late, I don't think it's been a success there either.
I've been told by some console fleet leaders that they've seen ~50% loss in activity since S13 went live there.
As for PvP, while there is certainly a little more activity there now, the PvP queues are still at 0 most of the time, and it's still pretty much the same core group of players its always been. There isn't really much new activity there, and if there is, they're pushed away due to there still being such extreme things that completely ruin the experience (ultra high speed, drains, protonic science consoles, placates, disable lockout not working, etc).
I plan on doing a video soon discussing this topic a bit. I figured it wasn't going to go over well, but I didn't think it'd end as badly as it has.
Thanks for making the thread and getting a discussion going @tunebreaker
You made some very good observations.
I'm in one of the top Fleets, and we recently lost an entire Armada branch too (which really used to unheard of for our Fleet). Terran Battle Zone, you say? Just came from there: 2 ppl in it (including me, LOL). So I went to the Tzenkthi BZ. Finally some allies! Alas, when I approached them, they turned out to be NPCs.
Not had a chance to read the whole thread, but just adding some of what I've seen.
Season 13 has led to the lowest point of activity that I've ever seen for the DPS Channels. Engagement in high end DPS stuff had already been dropping quite a bit over the last year, but S13 ultimately killed off most of what was left.
Fleet wise, I've heard/ seen many fleets lose a bit of the activity they've had, which was already at a low point. I know we've lost a few in TBC from S13, but thankfully we haven't seen as much of a hit as I've seen other fleets in our armada take.
If S13 was meant to help PvP or balance consoles out before it was too late, I don't think it's been a success there either.
I've been told by some console fleet leaders that they've seen ~50% loss in activity since S13 went live there.
As for PvP, while there is certainly a little more activity there now, the PvP queues are still at 0 most of the time, and it's still pretty much the same core group of players its always been. There isn't really much new activity there, and if there is, they're pushed away due to there still being such extreme things that completely ruin the experience (ultra high speed, drains, protonic science consoles, placates, disable lockout not working, etc).
I plan on doing a video soon discussing this topic a bit. I figured it wasn't going to go over well, but I didn't think it'd end as badly as it has.
Thanks for making the thread and getting a discussion going @tunebreaker
You made some very good observations.
I'm in one of the top Fleets, and we recently lost an entire Armada branch too (which really used to unheard of for our Fleet). Terran Battle Zone, you say? Just came from there: 2 ppl in it (including me, LOL). So I went to the Tzenkthi BZ. Finally some allies! Alas, when I approached them, they turned out to be NPCs.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Not had a chance to read the whole thread, but just adding some of what I've seen.
Season 13 has led to the lowest point of activity that I've ever seen for the DPS Channels. Engagement in high end DPS stuff had already been dropping quite a bit over the last year, but S13 ultimately killed off most of what was left.
Fleet wise, I've heard/ seen many fleets lose a bit of the activity they've had, which was already at a low point. I know we've lost a few in TBC from S13, but thankfully we haven't seen as much of a hit as I've seen other fleets in our armada take.
If S13 was meant to help PvP or balance consoles out before it was too late, I don't think it's been a success there either.
I've been told by some console fleet leaders that they've seen ~50% loss in activity since S13 went live there.
As for PvP, while there is certainly a little more activity there now, the PvP queues are still at 0 most of the time, and it's still pretty much the same core group of players its always been. There isn't really much new activity there, and if there is, they're pushed away due to there still being such extreme things that completely ruin the experience (ultra high speed, drains, protonic science consoles, placates, disable lockout not working, etc).
I plan on doing a video soon discussing this topic a bit. I figured it wasn't going to go over well, but I didn't think it'd end as badly as it has.
Thanks for making the thread and getting a discussion going @tunebreaker
WRT PvP, the rebalance did temporarily increase activity, and a lot of 'old timers' who'd gone away from the game came back...
for about three weeks.
so what happened?
well, for one, the promised matchmaking system has yet to appear in the actual pvp queues, so those remain the kingdom of twink premades who can't find a fight-because if they face someone as well geared, nobody's able to do damage and the winner ends up being the one who doesn't get bored and log out, and if they don't, it's back to a 15/0 teamwipe with the newguys swearing neer to do it again...
because one sided matches suck ****.
which is why I said, "They didn't go far enough"-specifically with regards to addressing the differences between PvE and PvP, but also with regards to integrating the PPS into the PvP queue system.
IOW it's not just the DPS crowd who're abusing broken mechanics here-there are a lot of (I won't name the people or the fleets) who basically turn chicken if they can't faceroll all opposition, and whose builds break the basic paradigm by being all things at once (aka applying one-shot kills, while being impossible to hit, and when hit, impossible to damage or kill, effectively immortal).
When two of those superman builds square off, the winner, more often than not, won because his opponent had to log out after hours of being unable to touch one another.
THIS IS A PROBLEM.
and it's one that roots in the work of Jeremy "Borticus" Randall, since he's the guy who was responsible for designing this stuff in the first place.
For PvP to be viable, well, @CrypticSpartan did a lot of the base ground work-but there's a lot that remains undone, and some of what was done, is being undone.
The impact on the queues? is actually NEGLIGIBLE with regards to PvE. ISA and CCA are still the two most popular, and pop even when eerything else is running zeroes, other queues remain unpopulated as they were in DECEMBER, and months prior.
What is more remarkable, is that Core Assault has a fairly short wait time on Advanced-in spite of two other competitive queues where you absolutely do not face the possibility of having to fight another player-team. It opens for me, even when Binary Circuit and Twin Tribulations don't-so there IS a nascent PvP community building-it's just that they're not a community that wants to go pugging into the face of a premade filled with forty-hour-a-week-grinder type powergamers.
Which, ah, might also explain why the other queues are less active. It doesn't take more than two or three times getting an AFK before you've reached full impulse to become disgusted with pug queues infested by DPS "Elites" looking for a parse, or showing their big E-Peens, in a way it's the same thing as what's been going on with PvP since the queues were rendered factionless-a player who might be interested in the activity isn't going to build that interest, if they're getting rolled every time, or every other time, by some jerkoff who can sit on the game for sixteen hours a **** day grinding and doing spreadsheets to find the most outright broken combinations-which he or she then turns into a 'sekrit Sauce' so they can godhammer some casuals or humiliate them in zone chat.
^^^^^ This...
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I so hope you recapture the fun in game. The last thing we need at the moment are good players not playing.
You too man, and thanks for the kind words.
Overall, I honestly doubt I'll go back to playing STO.. at least like I used to. I understand why some people like all these nerfs and that's cool, everyone has a right to their opinion. For me though, the game has always been thin on end game content and the most rewarding thing for me to do was trying to tweak my build for better performance. But now, it seems like there is no point.. why bother putting any time or effort into anything if it's just going to get nerfed if it works? I have plenty of ideas of changes I could make and things I can try.. I just don't see why I should bother. If it works, it will just get nerfed, so why waste the time?
I hope it brought the equality that some really wanted, I think the goal was noble but the method was flawed. At least from my personal perspective.
There are still some pretty cool people here to play with (like you) and the story line missions are still fun. Overall, I have too much time invested to just quit completely, but S13 has reduced my play time in a way that no other content ever has. I'm really not a fan of the direction the current staff is taking this game, and the dropping player count leads me to believe that I'm not alone.
I so hope you recapture the fun in game. The last thing we need at the moment are good players not playing.
You too man, and thanks for the kind words.
Overall, I honestly doubt I'll go back to playing STO.. at least like I used to. I understand why some people like all these nerfs and that's cool, everyone has a right to their opinion. For me though, the game has always been thin on end game content and the most rewarding thing for me to do was trying to tweak my build for better performance. But now, it seems like there is no point.. why bother putting any time or effort into anything if it's just going to get nerfed if it works? I have plenty of ideas of changes I could make and things I can try.. I just don't see why I should bother. If it works, it will just get nerfed, so why waste the time?
Oddly enough, the change had me playing WAY more for a bit because I liked that I had new things to try and change and figure out. And if that changes again...well It's a new puzzle for me to figure out again. So I am the exact opposite of you. I think of the changes as a new challenge, new puzzle for me to play with. So I kinda want them to do more of these things.
That's actually a really good approach to the situation.
I'm sure some of my current mind set is rooted in the fact that I was already getting bored with the game prior to the nerf-a-palooza so it was just one more thing that made me ask myself why I was still playing.
Maybe after a short break I'll be able to adopt a mind set more similar to yours. I did log in and play for a while post nerf and it wasn't like I was struggling by any means. In fact, if we're being completely honest, I swapped out a couple consoles, 1 or 2 traits and a couple BoFF skills and I hardly even noticed any difference at all. I might just stick to story missions and maybe battle zones and Red Alerts. I know I won't be doing queues anymore for various reasons.
I so hope you recapture the fun in game. The last thing we need at the moment are good players not playing.
You too man, and thanks for the kind words.
Overall, I honestly doubt I'll go back to playing STO.. at least like I used to. I understand why some people like all these nerfs and that's cool, everyone has a right to their opinion. For me though, the game has always been thin on end game content and the most rewarding thing for me to do was trying to tweak my build for better performance. But now, it seems like there is no point.. why bother putting any time or effort into anything if it's just going to get nerfed if it works? I have plenty of ideas of changes I could make and things I can try.. I just don't see why I should bother. If it works, it will just get nerfed, so why waste the time?
I hope it brought the equality that some really wanted, I think the goal was noble but the method was flawed. At least from my personal perspective.
There are still some pretty cool people here to play with (like you) and the story line missions are still fun. Overall, I have too much time invested to just quit completely, but S13 has reduced my play time in a way that no other content ever has. I'm really not a fan of the direction the current staff is taking this game, and the dropping player count leads me to believe that I'm not alone.
I’m sorry to hear so Sea but fully understand. Currying five dozen epic embassy consoles on my account to the landfill took the heart out of my fight as well. Nevertheless I’m fortunate that I play in really great communities which are not only in the same boat but also have the habit if building one up again or even directly expecting of me to rock on.
And tell you what, rocking on is something we still can. Even with 40% less DPS. I can’t tell you what fun it was to put a middle finger into Cryptic’s nerfs by participating in Feli’s 323k season record. He evens said on team-speak that with a little bit of better piloting 400k should work as well.
And even if one does not strife for DPS directly, good teams can still be found elsewhere to have elite maps run like buttah. If you get around join the “The Science Channel”. They really know how to kick it and that without any DPS-pre-requirements for which I believe the remnants of the PvE community to be too small anyway.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Same counts for you Meimeitoo. I see you at times in the Metal chans but can also recommend the TSC. A friend of mine and did not feel like pugging yesterday and since we were on our sci toons we gave Tune’s channel a shot. Was such a blast! I was like on my weakest toon but we rocked one elite space map after the other as if it would only be a walk in the park.
The ice got pretty thin for dedicated PvEr. All the reason to stick together and let the advocates of nerfs rot in the pug environments where they belong.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Oddly enough, the change had me playing WAY more for a bit because I liked that I had new things to try and change and figure out. And if that changes again...well It's a new puzzle for me to figure out again. So I am the exact opposite of you. I think of the changes as a new challenge, new puzzle for me to play with. So I kinda want them to do more of these things.
It is interesting but yea, I also see parts of me in your post. Less by choice sadly but more by force as all my ten toons need to be tended to again. Atm it’s time for my crippled sci toons which I move in new directions. While I generally don’t mind shaking the rules up a bit when it comes to “free” boff and captain’s powers Cryptic’s god forsaken upgrade system turns gear experimentations into a pain though. Especially when new stuff hits and you begin to see that the only job of the recent nerfs was to make room for new, expensive stuff.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Cryptic’s god forsaken upgrade system turns gear experimentations into a pain though. Especially when new stuff hits and you begin to see that the only job of the recent nerfs was to make room for new, expensive stuff.
Yeah, this is the part that gets me too. The only saving grace is that the only gear that I'm tossing out the air lock are consoles which luckily didn't cost a ton to upgrade. If it was my beams/cannons that had been rendered useless I would be a lot more upset.
Overall, I honestly doubt I'll go back to playing STO.. at least like I used to. I understand why some people like all these nerfs and that's cool, everyone has a right to their opinion. For me though, the game has always been thin on end game content and the most rewarding thing for me to do was trying to tweak my build for better performance. But now, it seems like there is no point.. why bother putting any time or effort into anything if it's just going to get nerfed if it works? I have plenty of ideas of changes I could make and things I can try.. I just don't see why I should bother. If it works, it will just get nerfed, so why waste the time?
Lots of things have changed since I started playing, I'll be here until the game shuts down.
Yes, soo many changes. I remember back when Trics didn't work with skills. And the hilarity that resulted when suddenly they did. Seriously... some of those bomber builds made me think people were trying to recreate Hobus...
I really have to laugh when people say that the old UI only for people that had it memorized. Are people that daft these days? The Queues in the old UI were in ALPHABETICAL ORDER. The only thing you'd have to memorize under that is the order of letters in the Alphabet. People should really have that down pat by the time they were 8.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Oddly enough, the change had me playing WAY more for a bit because I liked that I had new things to try and change and figure out. And if that changes again...well It's a new puzzle for me to figure out again. So I am the exact opposite of you. I think of the changes as a new challenge, new puzzle for me to play with. So I kinda want them to do more of these things.
...and it wasn't like I was struggling by any means. In fact, if we're being completely honest, I swapped out a couple consoles, 1 or 2 traits and a couple BoFF skills and I hardly even noticed any difference at all...
This is where I'm at after the changes (improvements to my engineers and scientists). My two highest-damage builds, with just slight tweaks, only went down 20% for one and ~40% for the others. Sorting damage records by career, both toons went up several places, so I'm even doing better in a relative sense. The build that holds my personal record for the season is using a mission-reward space set (Quantum Phase Applications) and the ship's entire native console set (Chronos-class, 113k). It's freeing to feel that I'm not hobbling myself if I don't fill all my sci slots with a single console type, and I've ended up playing no more or less than before.
Builds outside my top 2 have seen either no net change, or small to moderate improvements because I didn't have the time or resources to invest them into the prior meta. This is just the first of what should probably be several passes at change, keeping in mind that power creep /= improvement.
Comments
We're these numbers taken on ground, because for a Mk XII VR Turret it doesn't feel like it should be that low (Cat1 from mark alone should have it above that since turrets have a base damage of ~101 damage per shot); same goes for the QP torp.
Also what's the @ +??% part of the Polaric modulator supposed to be?
yes you didn't say "common knowledge" you only merely said "it is not un-common knowledge"
which merely means the same.
in response to post justifying that to someone who didn't pursued advanced knowledge on mechanics, things that high end dpsers are doing may feel like some sort for exploits and abusing "broken mechanics" which was response to you making fun of people making such a claim.
well let me straight it up - I have meant in a way attached to normal regular release schedule without blasting the trumpets "we are rebalancing them game".
so what would cryptic lost would be attemtping of building up a hype for "new balanced game" and pvp-related reputation release meant to capitalise on said hype [probably?]
the thought was born throught comparing current STO case to few other MMOs I keep track on which actually valued proper balancing from the very start and from the very start periodic balancing passes are regular activity.
and while often there is alot of talks and argument over each balancing pass, - thanks to avoidance of bunching up big changes together - it is where it ends - on talks and arguments on forums/ingame chat - without hits to actuall playerbase - and also even whithin same titles when there was an expansion release providing an actuall big hit to the balance status - the playerbase was receiving a hit due to overal upsettness over the scale of "sudden" [because for some people changes are always sudden regardless of how much you are yelling about them beforehand] changes. but regular stream of seemingly minor changes over time seems to work considerably well out there in other games of same genre.
[also btw I have also at that time withheld spending on STO but for me it was mostly to see how the situation unravels - because at that time it seemed to me that depending on how they do it they will likely either fix the game of kill it out - so risky period to invest into it
I disagree in here - testign on my side provides me with information that most of my preS13 builds have actually kept their overal performance at same level - with shifts in distribution of that performance [some part of the build works better some worse] and these were builds from around 20-30k dps which is kinda lowendy
so I'd say for the case of these specific low end builds I have not been "chopped off at the knees" but I have basically got my crutches replaced
[and can no longer go for space elites just because lulz, due to high end performers I used to run these with not being able to carry my dead weight anymore.....]
Translation: Polaron Phase Modulator doing an additional WhoKnowsWhat percent (because I couldn't find the value listed in the statistics available online, so acknowledged it as an unknown variable
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
2. Even though almost all builds were now perfectly viable (with a bit of knowledge), many people still had the need to use the FAW, cookie-cutter-esque DPS channel builds. Instead of making varied builds, many, many people still used builds that yielded the easiest results.
3. Nerfapalooza
4. Now the "fun" kooky builds are garbage more often than not, and build variety is back to where it was pre-skill revamp.
5. Cryptic gets to make people buy and upgrade all new stuff for their builds.
6. Queues are dead.
7. There are a lot of people not wanting to buy things for a build, because they assume it's a temporary money grab that will get nerfed when it stops selling well.
Not a fan.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
The Polaric Phase modulators should be +30% at VR Mk XII
If that's all you have, I can give an estimated DPS number (its not going to be a complete/accurate since you're missing traits and things).
Turrets
- Base of 101
- 120.4% Cat1 from Mark
- 7.5% Cat1 from Rarity
101*(1+0.5+1.204+0.2+0.3+0.075)*(((1-0.04.67)*(1+0))+((0.04.67)*(1+0.642)))
= 331 Damage per shot
- 6 shots over 5 seconds
331*(6/5)
= 397.2 DPS
Totaling 2780.4 DPS for 7
Torp
- Base of 1500
- 120.4% Cat1 from Mark
- 7.5% Cat1 from Rarity
- +2% CrtH From [CrtH] mod
- +40% CrtD from [CrtD]x2 mod
1500*(1+0.5+1.20.4+0.075)*(((1-0.04.67-0.02)*(1+0))+((0.04.67+0.02)*(1+0.642+0.4)))
= 4255 Damage per shot
- 1 shots over 8 seconds
4255*(1/8)
= 531 DPS
Together, that makes 3311.4 DPS.
Of course this isn't a good representation, but its only an estimation, and changes a lot depending on what your ability use is, distance to target (not taken into account), cat2 (which this uses none), and traits, skills, and such.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Season 13 has led to the lowest point of activity that I've ever seen for the DPS Channels. Engagement in high end DPS stuff had already been dropping quite a bit over the last year, but S13 ultimately killed off most of what was left.
Fleet wise, I've heard/ seen many fleets lose a bit of the activity they've had, which was already at a low point. I know we've lost a few in TBC from S13, but thankfully we haven't seen as much of a hit as I've seen other fleets in our armada take.
If S13 was meant to help PvP or balance consoles out before it was too late, I don't think it's been a success there either.
I've been told by some console fleet leaders that they've seen ~50% loss in activity since S13 went live there.
As for PvP, while there is certainly a little more activity there now, the PvP queues are still at 0 most of the time, and it's still pretty much the same core group of players its always been. There isn't really much new activity there, and if there is, they're pushed away due to there still being such extreme things that completely ruin the experience (ultra high speed, drains, protonic science consoles, placates, disable lockout not working, etc).
I plan on doing a video soon discussing this topic a bit. I figured it wasn't going to go over well, but I didn't think it'd end as badly as it has.
Thanks for making the thread and getting a discussion going @tunebreaker
You made some very good observations.
I'm in one of the top Fleets, and we recently lost an entire Armada branch too (which really used to unheard of for our Fleet). Terran Battle Zone, you say? Just came from there: 2 ppl in it (including me, LOL). So I went to the Tzenkthi BZ. Finally some allies! Alas, when I approached them, they turned out to be NPCs.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
You too man, and thanks for the kind words.
Overall, I honestly doubt I'll go back to playing STO.. at least like I used to. I understand why some people like all these nerfs and that's cool, everyone has a right to their opinion. For me though, the game has always been thin on end game content and the most rewarding thing for me to do was trying to tweak my build for better performance. But now, it seems like there is no point.. why bother putting any time or effort into anything if it's just going to get nerfed if it works? I have plenty of ideas of changes I could make and things I can try.. I just don't see why I should bother. If it works, it will just get nerfed, so why waste the time?
I hope it brought the equality that some really wanted, I think the goal was noble but the method was flawed. At least from my personal perspective.
There are still some pretty cool people here to play with (like you) and the story line missions are still fun. Overall, I have too much time invested to just quit completely, but S13 has reduced my play time in a way that no other content ever has. I'm really not a fan of the direction the current staff is taking this game, and the dropping player count leads me to believe that I'm not alone.
^^ 100% This!!!
That's actually a really good approach to the situation.
I'm sure some of my current mind set is rooted in the fact that I was already getting bored with the game prior to the nerf-a-palooza so it was just one more thing that made me ask myself why I was still playing.
Maybe after a short break I'll be able to adopt a mind set more similar to yours. I did log in and play for a while post nerf and it wasn't like I was struggling by any means. In fact, if we're being completely honest, I swapped out a couple consoles, 1 or 2 traits and a couple BoFF skills and I hardly even noticed any difference at all. I might just stick to story missions and maybe battle zones and Red Alerts. I know I won't be doing queues anymore for various reasons.
I’m sorry to hear so Sea but fully understand. Currying five dozen epic embassy consoles on my account to the landfill took the heart out of my fight as well. Nevertheless I’m fortunate that I play in really great communities which are not only in the same boat but also have the habit if building one up again or even directly expecting of me to rock on.
And tell you what, rocking on is something we still can. Even with 40% less DPS. I can’t tell you what fun it was to put a middle finger into Cryptic’s nerfs by participating in Feli’s 323k season record. He evens said on team-speak that with a little bit of better piloting 400k should work as well.
And even if one does not strife for DPS directly, good teams can still be found elsewhere to have elite maps run like buttah. If you get around join the “The Science Channel”. They really know how to kick it and that without any DPS-pre-requirements for which I believe the remnants of the PvE community to be too small anyway.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Same counts for you Meimeitoo. I see you at times in the Metal chans but can also recommend the TSC. A friend of mine and did not feel like pugging yesterday and since we were on our sci toons we gave Tune’s channel a shot. Was such a blast! I was like on my weakest toon but we rocked one elite space map after the other as if it would only be a walk in the park.
The ice got pretty thin for dedicated PvEr. All the reason to stick together and let the advocates of nerfs rot in the pug environments where they belong.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
It is interesting but yea, I also see parts of me in your post. Less by choice sadly but more by force as all my ten toons need to be tended to again. Atm it’s time for my crippled sci toons which I move in new directions. While I generally don’t mind shaking the rules up a bit when it comes to “free” boff and captain’s powers Cryptic’s god forsaken upgrade system turns gear experimentations into a pain though. Especially when new stuff hits and you begin to see that the only job of the recent nerfs was to make room for new, expensive stuff.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Yeah, this is the part that gets me too. The only saving grace is that the only gear that I'm tossing out the air lock are consoles which luckily didn't cost a ton to upgrade. If it was my beams/cannons that had been rendered useless I would be a lot more upset.
I'm sure those are probably next though.
My character Tsin'xing
Food is required for survival.
If it wasn't, I wouldn't waste time with that either.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
This is where I'm at after the changes (improvements to my engineers and scientists). My two highest-damage builds, with just slight tweaks, only went down 20% for one and ~40% for the others. Sorting damage records by career, both toons went up several places, so I'm even doing better in a relative sense. The build that holds my personal record for the season is using a mission-reward space set (Quantum Phase Applications) and the ship's entire native console set (Chronos-class, 113k). It's freeing to feel that I'm not hobbling myself if I don't fill all my sci slots with a single console type, and I've ended up playing no more or less than before.
Builds outside my top 2 have seen either no net change, or small to moderate improvements because I didn't have the time or resources to invest them into the prior meta. This is just the first of what should probably be several passes at change, keeping in mind that power creep /= improvement.