S13 turned out worse than Delta Rising

tunebreaker · June 2017

With quite a bit already passed since the launch of Season 13, I am confident when I say that it was even worse to STO than DR was back in 2014.

And no, I am not talking about story or new queues or something like that. I am talking about how game mechanics were changed and how it affected the playerbase.

With S13, the main culprits are obviously new (and not improved) Queue UI and Space Rebalance. In fact, those 2 are so detrimental to game that my friends list is emptier than before, hardly anyone talks in DPS channels and it takes really long time to start any pug queues. If you're having a bad part of the day, you could end up waiting 15 minutes to see even an ISA pop.

Was this really what this game needed? Even less activity? Neither of those changes was needed.
Old queue UI worked pretty well and the new one certainly didn't fix any problems, quite the opposite, it made queueing with teams and forming private matches even more painful. And even if they do start, the quality of pugs has dropped dramatically.

Which brings me to space rebalance... While I wasn't against reworking some things, I have always been opposed to big nerfs. And now looking at it, I miss the old meta. What good did the "equalisation" bring if people simply don't join the queues? Sure, I was slightly jealous when someone with half of my piloting skills did twice my damage and was more durable than me as well, just because they built their ship in a "more correct way", but ultimately it doesn't matter. DPS is just a number and at least I *could* start a queue back then. And don't fool yourself that power creep has stopped or that high DPSers have been brought down. People are still doing 300k+ in dedicated runs. It's always weaker players who suffer the most with changes like these.

I miss the times when everyone tried to tank so I didn't have to. I miss viable beam-sci builds. I miss Plasma Exploders that did decent damage, making it much easier for a newbie to carry their weight in a pug. And most of all, I miss the times when I didn't have to wait 10 mins for a pug to start, and when I didn't have to worry about the game not taking my teammate into the mission with me.

Oh, and PvP is still a joke. Still only 10 players playing it, perhaps only in decimals and not in binary nowadays. And "balance" is nowhere to be seen in there either.

I know I wouldn't oppose a complete reroll. Sure, I am fully aware it's extremely unlikely, but hey, one can dream.

Unknown · June 2017

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nikeix · June 2017

Wow. Good to hear about the weather at your "I'm the center of the universe", but I'm betting the people who run this game pretty much disagree on every point.

trejgon · June 2017

well truth be said I hardly agree with what gruber says in here....

ok alota of people are gone which is influencing wait times for PvE queues - it's hard to argue with this one

but:

A) old queue was only good for those who were maneuvering throught it by memory of what lies where - if you didn't memorise htose thigns yet - good luck finding anythign in old queue UI.
also the only real way to know what which que was giving out in rewards was to ask people.

and ontop of that it required constant active management of devs with inserting and clearing "featured queues" - which by the way made UI nearly unusable in last days before S13 release because of "featured queue" list being so long that without increasing the size of the window you had like two or three rows of regular list seen at a time - good luck finding anything in that.
[also it looked old - very old]

New UI is easilly readable and easy to navigate and solves the issue of lack of knowledge on what is awarded and where. Now to havea really good UI it only needs some polishign - namely some bug squashing and personally getting the window with rest of the team timeout timer back would be nice [and countdown to start the mission]

power creeping is bad design for long run of MMO by default - as I was saying for long before S13 STO needed series of huge rebalancing to hope for any long run healthiness, and frankly I was seeing such series of rebalancing as the only way to truelly fix the problem that many whined about - lack of challenge in the game

and while S13 alone is not enought to bring the game into said healthy status but it did some good at least - and I can see by my very exampe - I can no longer stay in elite [in space] with derpy mk12 builds as I used to - and frankly I don;t believe I should be able to run ELITE queues with derpy halfbaked builds as I used to.

and then I didn;t believe cryptic to actually do the right thing because of everyone silencing me everytime I said it out loud with exacly this - visions on how everyone will just abandon the game over nerfed toys and how this will kill the game.

and the main thing I am afraid atm - is cryptic getting scared of this temporary situation and goes back to power creeping and following their bad schemes from the past - funding us literaly delta rising 2.0

imo they took the step in the right direction - but they need to continue makign step for it to be worth it - and ofc they need to get more new players in place of those who can't look beyond their nerfed toys [some advertising, maybe new recruitment event soon would be handy]

leemwatson · June 2017

Unfortunately OP, they didn't go far enough with the rebalancing. DPS is still out of whack, NPC's are still HP sponges, Ships are almost to the point were they are nothing but a costume having incorrect weapon loadouts, hardpoints and arcs, plus a tiny NX can take out a Universe!

Although combat is somewhat enjoyable, this game has a long way to go before it's as balanced as the SFC series.

S12 is actually the worst season, and personally, I thought Delta Rising was the best season, and in that I'm totally serious!

kf4tvi · June 2017

I personally feel the new UI is an improvement to the old as well. I have however noticed that on a few occasions, if I stay in the main window after selecting and joining a queue, if I am scrolling or clicking buttons, the popup windows that ask are you sure and the timer/accept popup will actually pop under because the main window still has focus. If you are one of those people that likes to set up multiple queues at once and thus may stay in the main window longer, you could miss those popup windows until you exit the main one...and you may only have seconds to accept, or it could have come and gone. This could possibly account for some of the complaints I have read about people joining but not accepting a queue.

Lately, I have been amazed at how fast the borg red alert pops. As soon as I click join it pretty much is ready, so I just exit the main window, accept the queue, and clear the are you sure popup window, and I am warping into the battle. Not sure about others as I am just using it to test and acquire the daily marks. The last time I did a tholian red alert it did took a little while, maybe a few minutes.

Unknown · June 2017

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nimbull · June 2017

This season isn't near as bad as Delta Rising was. I'm sorry, Delta Rising was a polished poo poo. Especially when you had gaps between leveling missions where you had to farm XP to get to the next chapter in the story arc.

kyle223cat · June 2017

What? Worse than the expansion which caused a big chunk of the player base to leave and never come back? Is this a joke?

Unknown · June 2017

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xyquarze · June 2017

tunebreaker wrote: »

my friends list is emptier than before

Which however is what happens on every online game where you have friends. Once you got a certain amount you get used to them, are not as open towards others - and they'll disappear. Oftentimes for real life "issues" (new significant other, end of studying and beginning of work, the lot) and also for the fact that sooner or later almost everybody will tire with almost every game and reduce playing time. So "my friends list shrunk" is a bad indicator. Yes, it may even be correlated with a change, because that got people who were all set up and just doing the routines because "that's what you do" out of their slumber, but I wouldn't say that is a bad thing as such.

leemwatson wrote: »

I thought Delta Rising was the best season, and in that I'm totally serious!

I wouldn't say the best - my opinion of course - but very good. The major cryout about "grinding to reach new content's level requirements" was understandable though - but never a problem for newer players, who wouldn't have been artificially kept at 50 before reaching the delta quadrant. Patrol wrapup missions also not so good. But yes, the whole new T6 and specializiation gave a lot to the game and without it people would have been bored. Also some very high quality content, plus raising production values. Great season altogether.

Season 12 isn't really comparable though - with three months only it is the shortest (I think?) with hardly any content and so far nothing to for me internally make it anything but a prequel to 13. Which also has just started, being slowed down by events, so I'll reserve judgment for now.

davefenestrator · June 2017

"People love the original post and say it's the best post ever!"

i.e. I disagree.

artan42 · June 2017

I haven't noticed a difference. My ships have remained about as effective as they were before the launch. I can still progress through most content in ships running mainly phaser beams of various types with standard tac consoles and gimmick universals in sci and eng.

Dead queues are a shame though. I'd like to play some of them but they're always empty. However I reckon it's got to the stage they'll be given a .5 season overhaul soon enough.

jaguarskx · June 2017

I personally preferred the old PVE Queue UI compared to the new UI. Both are not perfect and will the new UI solved some issues it also created new ones. I would have to agree though that waiting times for queue to being has become longer for me and that is before the Summer Event started.

Changes to space mechanics didn't affect me too much, but I am mostly focused on budget builds that are still capable of being effective in Advanced queue missions. I don't really use any reputation gear aside from a few torpedoes and I am not in a fleet so no fleet gear.

I actually liked Delta Rising overall. Then again I was somewhat new to the game when it got released having only started playing STO Towards the end of January 2014. Delta Rising released in October 2014. Therefore, I didn't feel like all my T5 C-Stores suddenly got nerfed because they were no longer the best ships. The only T5 C-Store ship I bought prior to the release of DR is the B'rel BoP Retrofit which I continued to fly through March 2015 even though I purchased the T6 Kor BoP (and the Delta OPs pack) in December 2014.

Yeah, there was a lot missions to do in DR and I know players were annoyed by the patrol missions, Overall I liked the missions in general. I took my time doing the missions instead of rushing through them to reach the new level cap as quickly as possible. The patrol missions kinda added the sense of exploration since they took you to different systems, but of course they always ended with combat. I think Cryptic should have drop one of the mandatory patrol missions though to make the story tighter.

While DR may have too many missions, I think the story arcs that followed DR had too few missions. With the exception of the Iconian War; I think 8 or 9 missions per arc is accepted. I wouldn't mind more as long as they are good missions.

meimeitoo · June 2017

tunebreaker wrote: »

With quite a bit already passed since the launch of Season 13, I am confident when I say that it was even worse to STO than DR was back in 2014.

And no, I am not talking about story or new queues or something like that. I am talking about how game mechanics were changed and how it affected the playerbase.

With S13, the main culprits are obviously new (and not improved) Queue UI and Space Rebalance. In fact, those 2 are so detrimental to game that my friends list is emptier than before, hardly anyone talks in DPS channels and it takes really long time to start any pug queues. If you're having a bad part of the day, you could end up waiting 15 minutes to see even an ISA pop.

Was this really what this game needed? Even less activity? Neither of those changes was needed.
Old queue UI worked pretty well and the new one certainly didn't fix any problems, quite the opposite, it made queueing with teams and forming private matches even more painful. And even if they do start, the quality of pugs has dropped dramatically.

Which brings me to space rebalance... While I wasn't against reworking some things, I have always been opposed to big nerfs. And now looking at it, I miss the old meta. What good did the "equalisation" bring if people simply don't join the queues? Sure, I was slightly jealous when someone with half of my piloting skills did twice my damage and was more durable than me as well, just because they built their ship in a "more correct way", but ultimately it doesn't matter. DPS is just a number and at least I *could* start a queue back then. And don't fool yourself that power creep has stopped or that high DPSers have been brought down. People are still doing 300k+ in dedicated runs. It's always weaker players who suffer the most with changes like these.

I miss the times when everyone tried to tank so I didn't have to. I miss viable beam-sci builds. I miss Plasma Exploders that did decent damage, making it much easier for a newbie to carry their weight in a pug. And most of all, I miss the times when I didn't have to wait 10 mins for a pug to start, and when I didn't have to worry about the game not taking my teammate into the mission with me.

Oh, and PvP is still a joke. Still only 10 players playing it, perhaps only in decimals and not in binary nowadays. And "balance" is nowhere to be seen in there either.

I know I wouldn't oppose a complete reroll. Sure, I am fully aware it's extremely unlikely, but hey, one can dream.

You're a wise person, my friend.

You said exactly what I've always wanted to say (except, when I do it, it often comes out a lot angrier, somehow).

What really struck a nerf, is the DPS Channels. Last year I could MIA there, to my heart's content; and this year, not so much.

Not having active DPS channels to run from has severely hampered my daily routine, I must admit. But the DPS channels are not to blame: people are simply withdrawing, en masse, from the queues in general (and hopefully not from the game altogether?).

DR was a risky business model. Basically, it was the time when MMO's believed it was a good idea to switch to heavy monetizing, and have a few whales carry the game. In a way one could say it's six of one, half a dozen of the other (as it makes no difference whether you have a 1,000 players each contribute $1, or 10 players each $100). Except... ay, there's the rub... for the queues. They be dangerously empty now. All the things you've observed, I've witnessed those too, and it worries me greatly.

And all the while I keep asking myself, 'Did all the excessive nerfing truly enhance my fun'? Not really, no. And the small, but ever extremely vocal, PvP community who cheered on these changes, are they really happier for it? I daresay, probably not, either.

kyle223cat · June 2017

meimeitoo wrote: »

tunebreaker wrote: »

With quite a bit already passed since the launch of Season 13, I am confident when I say that it was even worse to STO than DR was back in 2014.

And no, I am not talking about story or new queues or something like that. I am talking about how game mechanics were changed and how it affected the playerbase.

With S13, the main culprits are obviously new (and not improved) Queue UI and Space Rebalance. In fact, those 2 are so detrimental to game that my friends list is emptier than before, hardly anyone talks in DPS channels and it takes really long time to start any pug queues. If you're having a bad part of the day, you could end up waiting 15 minutes to see even an ISA pop.

Was this really what this game needed? Even less activity? Neither of those changes was needed.
Old queue UI worked pretty well and the new one certainly didn't fix any problems, quite the opposite, it made queueing with teams and forming private matches even more painful. And even if they do start, the quality of pugs has dropped dramatically.

Which brings me to space rebalance... While I wasn't against reworking some things, I have always been opposed to big nerfs. And now looking at it, I miss the old meta. What good did the "equalisation" bring if people simply don't join the queues? Sure, I was slightly jealous when someone with half of my piloting skills did twice my damage and was more durable than me as well, just because they built their ship in a "more correct way", but ultimately it doesn't matter. DPS is just a number and at least I *could* start a queue back then. And don't fool yourself that power creep has stopped or that high DPSers have been brought down. People are still doing 300k+ in dedicated runs. It's always weaker players who suffer the most with changes like these.

I miss the times when everyone tried to tank so I didn't have to. I miss viable beam-sci builds. I miss Plasma Exploders that did decent damage, making it much easier for a newbie to carry their weight in a pug. And most of all, I miss the times when I didn't have to wait 10 mins for a pug to start, and when I didn't have to worry about the game not taking my teammate into the mission with me.

Oh, and PvP is still a joke. Still only 10 players playing it, perhaps only in decimals and not in binary nowadays. And "balance" is nowhere to be seen in there either.

I know I wouldn't oppose a complete reroll. Sure, I am fully aware it's extremely unlikely, but hey, one can dream.

You're a wise person, my friend. You said exactly what I've always wanted to say (except, when I do it, it often comes out a lot angrier, somehow).

What really struck a nerf, is the DPS Channels. Last year I could MIA there, to my heart's content; and this year, not so much. Not having active DPS channels to run from has severely hampered my daily routine, I must admit. But the DPS channels are not to blame: people are simply withdrawing, en masse, from the queues in general (and hopefully not from the game altogether?).

DR was a risky business model. Basically, it was the time when MMO's believed it was a good idea to switch to heavy monetizing, and have a few whales carry the game. In a way one could say it's six of one, half a dozen of the other (as it makes no difference whether you have a 1,000 players each contribute $1, or 10 players each $100). Except... ay, there's the rub... for the queues. They be dangerously empty now. All the things you've observed, I've witnessed those too, and it worries me greatly.

And all the while I keep asking myself, 'Did all the excessive nerfing truly enhance my fun'? Not really, no. And the small, but ever extremely vocal, PvP community who cheered on these changes, are they really happier for it? I daresay, probably not, either.

Nope, not happier. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the changes were good, it's just not enough. That and the same people who kill PvP every time did so again (by finding the overpowered builds and forming premades that send new people running). Then of course they complain when the queues are dead. There were 40 people in the PvP queues when season 13 launched, now I see at most 8 and that's depending on the time of day.

mmps1 · June 2017

Before S13 it was like having a really nice car. You only really needed it to get to work or go do the shopping but you enjoyed driving so much you just used to go on trips for the hell of it. Now it's like that car's been replaced by an Austin Allegro. I mean sure, it still mostly gets you to work and down the shops but it's just not that nice to drive. So, you stop going on trips and just stay in to watch netflix instead. Sad really.

Unknown · June 2017

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Unknown · June 2017

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silverlobes · June 2017

My two strips, is that they did something under the hood which rendered the PC I was using, according to support, as not meeting the requirements to play the game (not the DX9 thing, it still worked fine after that became unsupported) Additionally, the one time I was able to get it to load, it appeared that the graphics settings had been changed, and to a format I didn't like. Reading on the forum and facebook, I saw lots of complaints about the queue UI not only being buggy, but that it was buggy on Tribble, and had the same bugs on Holodeck.

I also read people's critique of Mirrors and Smoke, slamming the writers for a heavy-handed political commentary.

Putting all this together, I'm not surprized that people are leaving the game. I very nearly considered that myself, but didn't want to abandon something I've put money into. So when I get round to fixing up another PC (and stuff like Family, Investments and other Life expences has to come before that) I'll give it a look and definitely see for myself.

I am looking forward to trying the Reliant Class, as well as an Orouboros, and maybe even an Arbiter, as well as continuing my financial experiment to see how much ec I can raise on the forum purely through trading, and with no influxes of zen>keys>ec, but my keenness to do so, has definitely been dampened by the reactions and opinions I've seen about 13.

Now with regards Delta Rising, I rather enjoyed it, certainly more than the time travel with Daniels episodes and the Na'kuhl Arc (although I did lol at seeing Kal Dano's corpse materialize on the timeship

That was topkek, although I doubt he thought so

)

nikephorus · June 2017

I know that the blanket nerf didn't increase my fun at all. My builds all perform slightly worse and my favorite turret build that I had invested quite heavily into is now basically a joke. I've adjusted my builds accordingly by removing all the things that got nerfed into the ground, but my performance will never be what it was. The balance pass was suppose to help out PvP, but most of the people I PvP'ed with have "taken a break" and now play other games. I haven't seen an exodus like this since the release of DR. Not sure if they will return or not, but I haven't done much in the way of PvP since the update. Additionally, the competitive queues are pretty dead most days (at least when I'm on). The normal queues don't pop much either. The only queues I can get to pop with any consistency are CCA and Tholian Alert (which people are now using for competitive marks). The new UI for the queues is garbage. I get removed from queues after I click accept with no notification that anything failed. Other times I don't even need to click on accept it just warps me into the mission randomly. When I do click accept I can sit there for several minuts wondering whats going on then suddenly warp into the mission (really miss that countdown timer). The entirety of the season has been frustrating for me. My friend list shrunk, my builds no longer work as well, and I can't get a queue to pop if my life depended on it...unless it's one of the two I mentioned above. I miss the day where the only thing I thought sucked was the Galaxy class.

Unknown · June 2017

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silverlobes · June 2017

azrael605 wrote: »

They did change the minimum system requirements for the game, and announced it over a month ahead of time.

Do you mean in addition to the DX9 becoming unsupported? I followed the updates and notes fairly closely, but I don't remember seeing anything about anything other than DX9 :-\ Perhaps I just missed it.

You really should form your own opinion about missions not just take the word of a bunch of snowflakes on the forum.

Happy to form my own opinions, but when I see several people saying the same thing, there's clearly a reason for it. Being observant of trends is important when dealing with the stock market, so it's become something of a habit.

As for people leaving, I have yet to see even the slightest evidence that such is happening any more than it always does in MMOs.

So because you haven't seen it, that means it's not happening? I'd say that all the comments on the length of time it takes queues to pop, is a good/bad sign that there aren't as many players populating them as before.

aspartan1 · June 2017

kyle223cat wrote: »

What? Worse than the expansion which caused a big chunk of the player base to leave and never come back? Is this a joke?

I just came back and I'm still having issues finishing Delta.... They really need to redo the Kobali stuff or make every mission skippable. Nonetheless I really did miss STO but not being able to advance the story line and getting zero help from the support people regarding the Kobali missions irked me to no end.

Nevertheless the look and feel recently is what peaked my interesting enough to entice me to give it a shot again... Guess what? After many attempts (again) I finally got one toon through Delta and am now stuck with another. It makes we want to scream at times.....

On a side note, I wish they would give plasma its juice again.... I feel like a neutered Rommie...

rattler2 · June 2017

I believe they upped the Operating System to at least Vista. Meaning anyone still running XP is SOL.

As for "people leaving", I think its a side effect of the matchmaking system. While that is supposed to match people of similar skill on the Competitive STFs and PvP... it might be inadvertently trying to do the same for normal STFs as well. Also... we ARE in the middle of the Summer Event too, so that could also be a contributing factor.

gerwalk0769 · June 2017

There needs to be more re-balancing (torpedoes and mines) and some re-tweaking (the control aspect of Gravity Well, have sci consoles focus on non-exotic abilities and damage) in my opinion. I like the old matte look, and I'm not a fan of the Lighting options being removed.

I've said this before in a forum post, I think they really injured themselves with the queue changes for 20 person ground missions that now require 20 people to start. I'd like that aspect of the old queue UI to return and I'd also like to see the lobby chat return so teams can strategize beforehand.

I used to organize Breaking The Planet and Big Dig fun runs of less than 20 people. Now I do not (finding a holding 20 people is a challenge), and I'm playing the game less and less.

silverlobes · June 2017

aspartan1 wrote: »

kyle223cat wrote: »

What? Worse than the expansion which caused a big chunk of the player base to leave and never come back? Is this a joke?

I just came back and I'm still having issues finishing Delta.... They really need to redo the Kobali stuff or make every mission skippable. Nonetheless I really did miss STO but not being able to advance the story line and getting zero help from the support people regarding the Kobali missions irked me to no end.

Nevertheless the look and feel recently is what peaked my interesting enough to entice me to give it a shot again... Guess what? After many attempts (again) I finally got one toon through Delta and am now stuck with another. It makes we want to scream at times.....

On a side note, I wish they would give plasma its juice again.... I feel like a neutered Rommie...

What issues are you having with the Kobali arc? That's actually one of my favorites, so if there's anything I can maybe do to help, please let me know

silverlobes · June 2017

rattler2 wrote: »

I believe they upped the Operating System to at least Vista. Meaning anyone still running XP is SOL.

As for "people leaving", I think its a side effect of the matchmaking system. While that is supposed to match people of similar skill on the Competitive STFs and PvP... it might be inadvertently trying to do the same for normal STFs as well. Also... we ARE in the middle of the Summer Event too, so that could also be a contributing factor.

That shouldn't have been an issue, as it was running 7 :-\

I'd suggest not so much the matchmaking system, but also the enforced PvP. I know that isn't a universally popular mode of play, so I wouldn't be surprized if that might have had something to do with it as well.

aspartan1 · June 2017

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

aspartan1 wrote: »

kyle223cat wrote: »

What? Worse than the expansion which caused a big chunk of the player base to leave and never come back? Is this a joke?

I just came back and I'm still having issues finishing Delta.... They really need to redo the Kobali stuff or make every mission skippable. Nonetheless I really did miss STO but not being able to advance the story line and getting zero help from the support people regarding the Kobali missions irked me to no end.

Nevertheless the look and feel recently is what peaked my interesting enough to entice me to give it a shot again... Guess what? After many attempts (again) I finally got one toon through Delta and am now stuck with another. It makes we want to scream at times.....

On a side note, I wish they would give plasma its juice again.... I feel like a neutered Rommie...

What issues are you having with the Kobali arc? That's actually one of my favorites, so if there's anything I can maybe do to help, please let me know

Getting credit for finishing the Acts and now the leader does not spawn properly for another mission... There are a couple threads in the bugs forum about the issues...

silverlobes · June 2017

aspartan1 wrote: »

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

aspartan1 wrote: »

kyle223cat wrote: »

What? Worse than the expansion which caused a big chunk of the player base to leave and never come back? Is this a joke?

I just came back and I'm still having issues finishing Delta.... They really need to redo the Kobali stuff or make every mission skippable. Nonetheless I really did miss STO but not being able to advance the story line and getting zero help from the support people regarding the Kobali missions irked me to no end.

Nevertheless the look and feel recently is what peaked my interesting enough to entice me to give it a shot again... Guess what? After many attempts (again) I finally got one toon through Delta and am now stuck with another. It makes we want to scream at times.....

On a side note, I wish they would give plasma its juice again.... I feel like a neutered Rommie...

What issues are you having with the Kobali arc? That's actually one of my favorites, so if there's anything I can maybe do to help, please let me know

Getting credit for finishing the Acts and now the leader does not spawn properly for another mission... There are a couple threads in the bugs forum about the issues...

Ahh, that sounds a little outside my area of expertise :-\ I had a similar issue with the last wave of Na'kuhl not spawning aboard the Tholian vessel, and would sometimes have to quit and drop the mission several times, before it would actually load them properly to progress the level. Is that something you've already tried?

leemwatson · June 2017

rattler2 wrote: »

I believe they upped the Operating System to at least Vista. Meaning anyone still running XP is SOL.

As for "people leaving", I think its a side effect of the matchmaking system. While that is supposed to match people of similar skill on the Competitive STFs and PvP... it might be inadvertently trying to do the same for normal STFs as well. Also... we ARE in the middle of the Summer Event too, so that could also be a contributing factor.

I have a laugh when people make the doom comment of 'people leaving', because there are no actual figures to PROVE it. And no, Steam stats are not accepted as an indicator of game population. On Risa I counted 40 odd instances. Each instance holds 50 people, and that was during UK time at 7PM BST! Take into account the people in the Sector Space and Social zones, plus missions and STF's, I would say that the population is healthy!

S13 turned out worse than Delta Rising

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