Used to get just the word 'null' and don't pretend that this wasn't reported by many.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It won't have an initial impact but it'll shoot up once the next round of lockbox ships arrive for the gougers to do their thing to, less on the current ships but new ones will be a gougers wet dream.
new lockbox ships are like 300m or less though
At the moment perhaps which is why I said the NEXT round of lock box ships, meaning ones that aren't out yet.
Lockbox ships prices are a more or less fixed multiple of key prices, plus or minus some wiggle room based on if it's the current box/discontinued box / infinity box.
I'm curious to know why changing the exchange cap from 500m to 750m or 750m for 1.5b would make a 300m ec ship cost more though. Why would it?
Question.
How can you claim that prices are unaffected and deny gouging will happen when in the same thread you admit to selling three promo ships for double the previous asking price?
How much inflation would have to be applied before a price is to your mind gouged?
i tried to voice my concerns in one of the games more popular trading channels only to face a deluge of insults and harassment about how i don't understand the games economy..
lets look at it objectively, when annorax first came out the exchange cap was 500mil.. the ship was selling for just over that amount, 500-700m for a time, give or take.. after the increase of exchange cap to 750mil, the prices rose on promo ships to a billion shortly after.. the release of the connie/d7 promo ships saw prices surge to a max of 1.5bil.
some would have you believe that its "natural inflation" to account for these increases, but in the games entire history there has never been such a fast increase in such a small amount of time. apparently historical context is irreverent, and trying to explain this is considered trolling.
now these massive price hikes are limited to certain items in the game, specifically new lobi/lock box ships and promo pack ships. there was a massive deflation (a good thing) for regular ships with the introduction of the infinity box..
apparently this is a difficult concept to grasp, and i feel like its trying to explain to a politician the difference between macro and micro economics when they deliberately try to confuse the public in their remarks..
those people who argue for this are usually the people who have all the wealth and horde these items, and also happen to be the ones with several thousand posts in the forums. they advocate a process which further entrenches that wealth and has the potential to increase their profits, kind of like asking a Wall Street Banker the best way to run the economy.
i "suspect" that these increases will make prices rise over time, and i don't think its good for the majority of players. i guess its good for those wealthy players but i would prefer a strategy to benefit the majority.
and FYI the Poll question and options are not the best, a more objective poll would just be Do you approve of the increased ec cap, yes/no
There have never been any "massive price hikes" in ships, nor did the last excap raise affect prices in any way. Promo ships stayed under the cap for almost a year after the raise. The Constitution's higher price is because of high demand, being the most famous ship in the franchise. Your "historical context" is false. Some of us keep actual records of these things, you know.
I have no doubt if you go into a channel full of people who actually know how the economy works and how to be successful in it and try to pass your baseless fears as economic education, you will be ridiculed for it.
Now for something entirety different, it looks like quoting now works on Mobile Phones.
Always worked fine for me, provided I "request desktop site", 99% of my posts are made on my Android phones, previously the Note 5, now the Galaxy S8 Plus.
It won't have an initial impact but it'll shoot up once the next round of lockbox ships arrive for the gougers to do their thing to, less on the current ships but new ones will be a gougers wet dream.
new lockbox ships are like 300m or less though
At the moment perhaps which is why I said the NEXT round of lock box ships, meaning ones that aren't out yet.
Lockbox ships prices are a more or less fixed multiple of key prices, plus or minus some wiggle room based on if it's the current box/discontinued box / infinity box.
I'm curious to know why changing the exchange cap from 500m to 750m or 750m for 1.5b would make a 300m ec ship cost more though. Why would it?
Question.
How can you claim that prices are unaffected and deny gouging will happen when in the same thread you admit to selling three promo ships for double the previous asking price?
And that's the real question. The answer is, because he can and people are foolish enough to pay his price. He sees taking advantage of people's foolishness as a virtue. So to him this is not only fair, but right.
So don't be stupid. Check out the actual price of these ships, add 10% profit for convenience and don't pay an EC more to these people.
Looking at the recent prices on the exchange, with promo ship prices dropping, it's almost as if the exact opposite of what the OP was talking about is happening.
To quote Arsenio Hall... "Things that make you go hmmmmmmn....."
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
i "suspect" that these increases will make prices rise over time, and i don't think its good for the majority of players. i guess its good for those wealthy players but i would prefer a strategy to benefit the majority.
It's not.
Top end prices are already far above what it would cost a person to simply buy the boxes on their own and open them as long as they're willing to buy enough to even out the odds (which is what the space rich do). That difference will increase as the prices continue to increase for while the game inflats- C-Store prices don't.
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level. Further increase will just lock that in place more tightly while most of the player base just loses interest or opens their own boxes.
It won't have an initial impact but it'll shoot up once the next round of lockbox ships arrive for the gougers to do their thing to, less on the current ships but new ones will be a gougers wet dream.
new lockbox ships are like 300m or less though
At the moment perhaps which is why I said the NEXT round of lock box ships, meaning ones that aren't out yet.
Lockbox ships prices are a more or less fixed multiple of key prices, plus or minus some wiggle room based on if it's the current box/discontinued box / infinity box.
I'm curious to know why changing the exchange cap from 500m to 750m or 750m for 1.5b would make a 300m ec ship cost more though. Why would it?
Question.
How can you claim that prices are unaffected and deny gouging will happen when in the same thread you admit to selling three promo ships for double the previous asking price?
The prices are unaffected. The fact that some people are too stupid to price-check before accepting an obvious scam is similarly unaffected. "A fool and his money are soon parted" as the saying goes.
Not that his claim of selling ships for that price are necessarily even true.
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level.
Absolutely, the question then is one of 'why are they trading?' Are they trying to get Max Balance on their space wallet? Are they trying to 'duel' with other players over prices, because 'Exchange is the Real PvP', or are they trying to corner markets and freeze out n00bz and the space poor? In addition to their quest for profit, might they also Giving Back to the community in some way? Might they give out ships to some deserving soul who just hasn't got the real-world expenses or time to get space rich-enough to get the good stuffz? Are there any lenders in the game who will spot someone four keys, and only want four in return? Or given the difficulty for contracts, perhaps a better term might be 'financial angels' who will just Give someone the keys, knowing full well they'll never see the keys or the player again.
I'd like to think that there are players like that in the game. On a personal level, I post Ensign slot manuals at the same price they can be purchased at ESD or a Fleet starbase. Why? I don't like the idea of people who may need a manual, but for convenience, might only want to call on Captain Brott and the Azura II, rather than heading ALL the Way back to ESD, being gouged for a 1000% Convenience Tax on the exchange. That's just greed for greed's sake, and gouging someone else's need.
Why do I think it would be nice to see people do this? It's naive, I know, but I look at it this way: Any money put into the game economy is lost money. We can't go to Arc's billing page, and withdraw $$s based on our Zen total, so we can't ever get any of it back, so why not pay some of it forward, and help out the less fortunate? I know, I know, what a pitiful Ferengi I would make: I have the lobes for business, but still with a humanitarian streak. Brunt would probably come out of retirement just to have my lobes on a plate, if he knew of my charitable leanings :-\
Further increase will just lock that in place more tightly while most of the player base just loses interest or opens their own boxes.
Absolutely so, like the point I raised about very rare Starfleet Klingon female tactical boffs and their price point. A boff worth having on any crew, but certainly beyond the reach of the space poor.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Gotta agree with @warpangel here in regards to obvious scams. However, a lot of this is based on the "shiny" factor. Someone sees something they want and are willing to pay through the nose to get it. Thankfully I'm at least moral enough to not take advantage of that. Others are not.
For instance, when the EntJ came out, I managed to snag not one, but three out of the promo packs (I got REALLY lucky, as I had only purchased 32 packs). I had no desire to fly the ship at all. I think it looks hideous and is a blight upon the game, but I knew I could turn them for a profit. Two of them were key sales, one giving me 275 and the other 225. The third one, however, kinda floored me. This guy offered me 30 ships (mix of T6 and T5), everything in his inventory, and 250m EC for it. I had to turn him down and give him a very stern lecture on the idea of value vs price and how people will take advantage of him if he does stuff like this. In the end, he got the EntJ, but I only took a T6 and a T5 and a few stacks of Superior Upgrades for it.
Now, there are times when a trade that favors one person over the other is acceptable. For instance, when the Privateer Lockbox came out, I got ahold of two Miradorns. This guy PMs me and asks if I'm willing to sell and offers me a Husnock for it. I told him that he's taking a bath with that trade, as I get the better end of the deal. However, he replies that it was okay, he accidentally bought two Husnocks without thinking. So we did a one for one trade, and that was the end of it.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
it would appear your perception of time has been distorted. perhaps you don't remember, but the last exchange cap raise did lead to an increase in prices, not overnight but it did happen. the price jumps i listed are accurate because i was there watching it unfold over a few months. My historical context is accurate, despite your inability to recall.
as to your thinking i went into a channel "of people who actually know" and make baseless fears of the economics. well i will say you have no idea what you are talking about. my personal opinion is this will lead to greater in-game inflation, that's just what i think and i nor you have a magic wand that can predict the future. and their ridicule was purely based on propagating their preferred outcome, and less to do with what may "actually" happen.
i make these remarks because i do not spend my life posting on forums unlike some, and while the 1% who do whine on them the rest are us are subjected to those outcomes. and those decisions are leading players away from the game, so keep making stupid remarks and keep driving players out then your trading wont amount to jack if the game closes down.
and if you actually "keep records of these things" then you are so sad i would advice taking a hard look in the mirror. perhaps another 5k posts in these forums will help your social life.
it would appear your perception of time has been distorted. perhaps you don't remember, but the last exchange cap raise did lead to an increase in prices, not overnight but it did happen. the price jumps i listed are accurate because i was there watching it unfold over a few months. My historical context is accurate, despite your inability to recall.
as to your thinking i went into a channel "of people who actually know" and make baseless fears of the economics. well i will say you have no idea what you are talking about. my personal opinion is this will lead to greater in-game inflation, that's just what i think and i nor you have a magic wand that can predict the future. and their ridicule was purely based on propagating their preferred outcome, and less to do with what may "actually" happen.
i make these remarks because i do not spend my life posting on forums unlike some, and while the 1% who do whine on them the rest are us are subjected to those outcomes. and those decisions are leading players away from the game, so keep making stupid remarks and keep driving players out then your trading wont amount to jack if the game closes down.
and if you actually "keep records of these things" then you are so sad i would advice taking a hard look in the mirror. perhaps another 5k posts in these forums will help your social life.
Delving into personal insults and using poor debate tactics (i.e. The "appeal to authority" argument) is usually a sign that you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation.
Just saying.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level.
Absolutely, the question then is one of 'why are they trading?'
The super rich are trading at the top end price level for the same reason the real world rich trade (for example) real estate. Often someone needs cash for something, the other needs an investment against inflation that would devalue his cash. Add in buy low and sell high and there you are.
Play the game right and you build up enough wealth that you have everything day one of release with extras to sell so that you always have everything day one of release going forward.
Something to keep in mind, investment against inflation and a place to store wealth above the EC cap are major drivers in STO. This is possible even more than it is in the real world because of the fact that STO rarely destroys wealth. The creative destruction of wealth is the only thing that allows mobility and a degree of fairness in free markets.
Now I have encountered players "giving Back to the community in some way". But this behavior is rare because it risks being taken advantage of. For example, just handing stuff out in ESD to stranger will likely result in the already Space Rich taking part of a pie not meant for them.
So such things are generally only done with people you have some level of knowledge of.
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level.
Absolutely, the question then is one of 'why are they trading?'
The super rich are trading at the top end price level for the same reason the real world rich trade (for example) real estate. Often someone needs cash for something, the other needs an investment against inflation that would devalue his cash. Add in buy low and sell high and there you are.
Play the game right and you build up enough wealth that you have everything day one of release with extras to sell so that you always have everything day one of release going forward.
Something to keep in mind, investment against inflation and a place to store wealth above the EC cap are major drivers in STO. This is possible even more than it is in the real world because of the fact that STO rarely destroys wealth. The creative destruction of wealth is the only thing that allows mobility and a degree of fairness in free markets.
Now I have encountered players "giving Back to the community in some way". But this behavior is rare because it risks being taken advantage of. For example, just handing stuff out in ESD to stranger will likely result in the already Space Rich taking part of a pie not meant for them.
So such things are generally only done with people you have some level of knowledge of.
Yes, but the difference is that the real world rich, can actually reap real world benefits from their trading. Someone could cash in their gold or silver stack when the market's high, and say, buy a car, put a deposit down on a house etc, but playing the STO exchange, the outcome is only in-game stuffz like ships, consoles, traits etc, nothing which can be converted to real world assets, so in that regard, it's all just 'for entertainment purposes'
And sure, buy low, sell high, is such a simple principle, the exchange is a very easy one to get into, and ec can definitely be made on it. That can be used to improve one's endgame experience, but it's not as if it can be used to truly benefit a new alt. Sure, a new alt could be given say, a couple million ec, meaning that tier/rank appropriate very rare stuffz can be loaded right after the tutorial, but not to the extent of say, loading up mk XIV epic phasers and consoles on a T1 Miranda, and blowing the bejeesus out of the Orion Matron who was after the Azura The game does a good job of preventing cheating, so in that regard, it's not as if a Player's ec balance, can really benefit anything other than the main who acquired it, other than a little 'smoothing the way' for alts, so again, the actual benefits the balance brings, are limited to 'for entertainment purposes'
And yes, absolutely, there are definitely those who would try and take advantage of another's generousity just to boost their own balance, rather than true need. This is why I don't donate like that (equally, I don't have a billion ec balance which would let me do that ) but putting those basic manuals on the exchange at cost; It doesn't cost me anything but my time, but I do get the satisfaction of knowing someone who just wanted to swap a basic ability, has been able to do so without getting gouged
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level.
Absolutely, the question then is one of 'why are they trading?'
The super rich are trading at the top end price level for the same reason the real world rich trade (for example) real estate. Often someone needs cash for something, the other needs an investment against inflation that would devalue his cash. Add in buy low and sell high and there you are.
Play the game right and you build up enough wealth that you have everything day one of release with extras to sell so that you always have everything day one of release going forward.
Something to keep in mind, investment against inflation and a place to store wealth above the EC cap are major drivers in STO. This is possible even more than it is in the real world because of the fact that STO rarely destroys wealth. The creative destruction of wealth is the only thing that allows mobility and a degree of fairness in free markets.
Now I have encountered players "giving Back to the community in some way". But this behavior is rare because it risks being taken advantage of. For example, just handing stuff out in ESD to stranger will likely result in the already Space Rich taking part of a pie not meant for them.
So such things are generally only done with people you have some level of knowledge of.
Yes, but the difference is that the real world rich, can actually reap real world benefits from their trading. Someone could cash in their gold or silver stack when the market's high, and say, buy a car, put a deposit down on a house etc, but playing the STO exchange, the outcome is only in-game stuffz like ships, consoles, traits etc, nothing which can be converted to real world assets, so in that regard, it's all just 'for entertainment purposes'
Well, this is a video game. Entertainment is the whole point of it.
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level.
Absolutely, the question then is one of 'why are they trading?'
The super rich are trading at the top end price level for the same reason the real world rich trade (for example) real estate. Often someone needs cash for something, the other needs an investment against inflation that would devalue his cash. Add in buy low and sell high and there you are.
Play the game right and you build up enough wealth that you have everything day one of release with extras to sell so that you always have everything day one of release going forward.
Something to keep in mind, investment against inflation and a place to store wealth above the EC cap are major drivers in STO. This is possible even more than it is in the real world because of the fact that STO rarely destroys wealth. The creative destruction of wealth is the only thing that allows mobility and a degree of fairness in free markets.
Now I have encountered players "giving Back to the community in some way". But this behavior is rare because it risks being taken advantage of. For example, just handing stuff out in ESD to stranger will likely result in the already Space Rich taking part of a pie not meant for them.
So such things are generally only done with people you have some level of knowledge of.
Yes, but the difference is that the real world rich, can actually reap real world benefits from their trading. Someone could cash in their gold or silver stack when the market's high, and say, buy a car, put a deposit down on a house etc, but playing the STO exchange, the outcome is only in-game stuffz like ships, consoles, traits etc, nothing which can be converted to real world assets, so in that regard, it's all just 'for entertainment purposes'
Well, this is a video game. Entertainment is the whole point of it.
Online poker is a video game, also for entertainment, and you get real $$s for it. Nothing in this economy, once put in, can leave it, so there's no real point to hoarding or gouging or market-cornering, beyond the desire to wave an epeen around, or try and keep n00bs from 'getting the good stuffz'
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level.
Absolutely, the question then is one of 'why are they trading?'
The super rich are trading at the top end price level for the same reason the real world rich trade (for example) real estate. Often someone needs cash for something, the other needs an investment against inflation that would devalue his cash. Add in buy low and sell high and there you are.
Play the game right and you build up enough wealth that you have everything day one of release with extras to sell so that you always have everything day one of release going forward.
Something to keep in mind, investment against inflation and a place to store wealth above the EC cap are major drivers in STO. This is possible even more than it is in the real world because of the fact that STO rarely destroys wealth. The creative destruction of wealth is the only thing that allows mobility and a degree of fairness in free markets.
Now I have encountered players "giving Back to the community in some way". But this behavior is rare because it risks being taken advantage of. For example, just handing stuff out in ESD to stranger will likely result in the already Space Rich taking part of a pie not meant for them.
So such things are generally only done with people you have some level of knowledge of.
Yes, but the difference is that the real world rich, can actually reap real world benefits from their trading. Someone could cash in their gold or silver stack when the market's high, and say, buy a car, put a deposit down on a house etc, but playing the STO exchange, the outcome is only in-game stuffz like ships, consoles, traits etc, nothing which can be converted to real world assets, so in that regard, it's all just 'for entertainment purposes'
Well, this is a video game. Entertainment is the whole point of it.
Online poker is a video game, also for entertainment, and you get real $$s for it. Nothing in this economy, once put in, can leave it, so there's no real point to hoarding or gouging or market-cornering, beyond the desire to wave an epeen around, or try and keep n00bs from 'getting the good stuffz'
Oh, you're just on a "mean kid next door didn't give me his toys" -angle. Nevermind.
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level.
Absolutely, the question then is one of 'why are they trading?'
The super rich are trading at the top end price level for the same reason the real world rich trade (for example) real estate. Often someone needs cash for something, the other needs an investment against inflation that would devalue his cash. Add in buy low and sell high and there you are.
Play the game right and you build up enough wealth that you have everything day one of release with extras to sell so that you always have everything day one of release going forward.
Something to keep in mind, investment against inflation and a place to store wealth above the EC cap are major drivers in STO. This is possible even more than it is in the real world because of the fact that STO rarely destroys wealth. The creative destruction of wealth is the only thing that allows mobility and a degree of fairness in free markets.
Now I have encountered players "giving Back to the community in some way". But this behavior is rare because it risks being taken advantage of. For example, just handing stuff out in ESD to stranger will likely result in the already Space Rich taking part of a pie not meant for them.
So such things are generally only done with people you have some level of knowledge of.
Yes, but the difference is that the real world rich, can actually reap real world benefits from their trading. Someone could cash in their gold or silver stack when the market's high, and say, buy a car, put a deposit down on a house etc, but playing the STO exchange, the outcome is only in-game stuffz like ships, consoles, traits etc, nothing which can be converted to real world assets, so in that regard, it's all just 'for entertainment purposes'
Well, this is a video game. Entertainment is the whole point of it.
Online poker is a video game, also for entertainment, and you get real $$s for it. Nothing in this economy, once put in, can leave it, so there's no real point to hoarding or gouging or market-cornering, beyond the desire to wave an epeen around, or try and keep n00bs from 'getting the good stuffz'
Humans have a vast array of motivations for their actions. Often an individual doesn't have an answer to the "Why?" for their own actions. Whatever the cause, there's always a part of a population driven to push something as far as possible. Typically the price for this is a degree of self-destructive behavior. That's their choice and sometimes it's even useful for the wider population (unlikely in STO however).
Would you and I rather that something be useful in the real world? Sure. But our opinion on this isn't going to have any affect.
The outcome is that for whatever reason- they've built great wealth and have greatly over-priced some top end items. The answer is be aware of the actual worth of such things, and not buy them when people are selling them for too much. Make their reasons irrelevant to you.
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level.
Absolutely, the question then is one of 'why are they trading?'
The super rich are trading at the top end price level for the same reason the real world rich trade (for example) real estate. Often someone needs cash for something, the other needs an investment against inflation that would devalue his cash. Add in buy low and sell high and there you are.
Play the game right and you build up enough wealth that you have everything day one of release with extras to sell so that you always have everything day one of release going forward.
Something to keep in mind, investment against inflation and a place to store wealth above the EC cap are major drivers in STO. This is possible even more than it is in the real world because of the fact that STO rarely destroys wealth. The creative destruction of wealth is the only thing that allows mobility and a degree of fairness in free markets.
Now I have encountered players "giving Back to the community in some way". But this behavior is rare because it risks being taken advantage of. For example, just handing stuff out in ESD to stranger will likely result in the already Space Rich taking part of a pie not meant for them.
So such things are generally only done with people you have some level of knowledge of.
Yes, but the difference is that the real world rich, can actually reap real world benefits from their trading. Someone could cash in their gold or silver stack when the market's high, and say, buy a car, put a deposit down on a house etc, but playing the STO exchange, the outcome is only in-game stuffz like ships, consoles, traits etc, nothing which can be converted to real world assets, so in that regard, it's all just 'for entertainment purposes'
Well, this is a video game. Entertainment is the whole point of it.
Online poker is a video game, also for entertainment, and you get real $$s for it. Nothing in this economy, once put in, can leave it, so there's no real point to hoarding or gouging or market-cornering, beyond the desire to wave an epeen around, or try and keep n00bs from 'getting the good stuffz'
Oh, you're just on a "mean kid next door didn't give me his toys" -angle. Nevermind.
Complex Statement - Nevermind.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level.
Absolutely, the question then is one of 'why are they trading?'
The super rich are trading at the top end price level for the same reason the real world rich trade (for example) real estate. Often someone needs cash for something, the other needs an investment against inflation that would devalue his cash. Add in buy low and sell high and there you are.
Play the game right and you build up enough wealth that you have everything day one of release with extras to sell so that you always have everything day one of release going forward.
Something to keep in mind, investment against inflation and a place to store wealth above the EC cap are major drivers in STO. This is possible even more than it is in the real world because of the fact that STO rarely destroys wealth. The creative destruction of wealth is the only thing that allows mobility and a degree of fairness in free markets.
Now I have encountered players "giving Back to the community in some way". But this behavior is rare because it risks being taken advantage of. For example, just handing stuff out in ESD to stranger will likely result in the already Space Rich taking part of a pie not meant for them.
So such things are generally only done with people you have some level of knowledge of.
Yes, but the difference is that the real world rich, can actually reap real world benefits from their trading. Someone could cash in their gold or silver stack when the market's high, and say, buy a car, put a deposit down on a house etc, but playing the STO exchange, the outcome is only in-game stuffz like ships, consoles, traits etc, nothing which can be converted to real world assets, so in that regard, it's all just 'for entertainment purposes'
Well, this is a video game. Entertainment is the whole point of it.
Online poker is a video game, also for entertainment, and you get real $$s for it. Nothing in this economy, once put in, can leave it, so there's no real point to hoarding or gouging or market-cornering, beyond the desire to wave an epeen around, or try and keep n00bs from 'getting the good stuffz'
Humans have a vast array of motivations for their actions. Often an individual doesn't have an answer to the "Why?" for their own actions. Whatever the cause, there's always a part of a population driven to push something as far as possible. Typically the price for this is a degree of self-destructive behavior. That's their choice and sometimes it's even useful for the wider population (unlikely in STO however).
Would you and I rather that something be useful in the real world? Sure. But our opinion on this isn't going to have any affect.
The outcome is that for whatever reason- they've built great wealth and have greatly over-priced some top end items. The answer is be aware of the actual worth of such things, and not buy them when people are selling them for too much. Make their reasons irrelevant to you.
Oh I'm all for Real World Riches, as well as just building enough in-game resources to give my Space Barbie a better Dreamhouse I was just observing that when one hits that upper end of the in-game spectrum, there's really nowhere else to go with it, because they can't transfer it to a new alt and start over, making use of the mk XIV Epics from Day One. In that regard, benevolence is probably going to be more rewarding than hoarding. I guess it's a bit like min/maxer wallet warriors with their one-shot vape builds; Sure, they can clear the field with a few clicks, but then what? Even that kind of gameplay gets boring after a while
As you say, definitely be better to be aware of pricing trends, and not letting oneself or others be taken advantage of
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
it would appear your perception of time has been distorted. perhaps you don't remember, but the last exchange cap raise did lead to an increase in prices, not overnight but it did happen. the price jumps i listed are accurate because i was there watching it unfold over a few months. My historical context is accurate, despite your inability to recall.
as to your thinking i went into a channel "of people who actually know" and make baseless fears of the economics. well i will say you have no idea what you are talking about. my personal opinion is this will lead to greater in-game inflation, that's just what i think and i nor you have a magic wand that can predict the future. and their ridicule was purely based on propagating their preferred outcome, and less to do with what may "actually" happen.
i make these remarks because i do not spend my life posting on forums unlike some, and while the 1% who do whine on them the rest are us are subjected to those outcomes. and those decisions are leading players away from the game, so keep making stupid remarks and keep driving players out then your trading wont amount to jack if the game closes down.
and if you actually "keep records of these things" then you are so sad i would advice taking a hard look in the mirror. perhaps another 5k posts in these forums will help your social life.
Ad hominem attacks are frowned upon here, be careful.
I find it hard to believe that the folks on the trading channel will sing with one voice to protect their vested interests. Indeed I have always found them to be very knowledgeable and helpful saving me time and money over the years. If they told you you're wrong then you probably are, and from what I've read I would have to agree with them for the most part.
from repetitiveepic: Accepting education is one of the best ways to learn
from warpangel: try to pass your baseless fears as economic education, you will be ridiculed for it
from themadprofessor: a sign that you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation
looks to me like i started to voice my concerns, did not direct my remarks to any person, tried to argue my points and what was the responses.. condescending and arrogance, and you talk to me about Ad Hominem attacks, you make me laugh.. don't complain when i bite back, and it would seem my remarks have touched a nerve.
you actually think people don't argue in their own vested interests then you are seriously naive. and as you admitted earlier being one of the few very rich players i take your opinions with a pinch of salt.
you want to know what my bias, my vested interest it. i want to see the player base increase, old players return. the majority having affordable access to all the ships, more content and greater player retention.. so tell me, what is the argument you and your cohorts are presenting? preserving your wealth, access to ships almost none will have?
every considered that you might be wrong, along with the others who advocate this.. every consider what you are suggesting might be bad for the game, for the players and for the financial stability of cryptic.. but who cares right, as long as you can get it.
I sell ships...lots of them through the years and have accumulated a great deal of wealth in EC currency. IMO this is solely based on players "emotions" of getting the latest and best shiny.
Personally, I will NOT use the exchange in high end ships and THANKS Cryptic this only helps me make MORE money. Actually double my sales from what the CAP was before. Surely, I'm already selling ships over 2BIL but as usual would ask for Keys or R&D packs. The exchange is useless and only helps to increase prices on those high end ships. More money for us ship sellers
I sell ships...lots of them through the years and have accumulated a great deal of wealth in EC currency. IMO this is solely based on players "emotions" of getting the latest and best shiny.
Personally, I will NOT use the exchange in high end ships and THANKS Cryptic this only helps me make MORE money. Actually double my sales from what the CAP was before. Surely, I'm already selling ships over 2BIL but as usual would ask for Keys or R&D packs. The exchange is useless and only helps to increase prices on those high end ships. More money for us ship sellers
Can I has ur stuffz??
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I sell ships...lots of them through the years and have accumulated a great deal of wealth in EC currency. IMO this is solely based on players "emotions" of getting the latest and best shiny.
Personally, I will NOT use the exchange in high end ships and THANKS Cryptic this only helps me make MORE money. Actually double my sales from what the CAP was before. Surely, I'm already selling ships over 2BIL but as usual would ask for Keys or R&D packs. The exchange is useless and only helps to increase prices on those high end ships. More money for us ship sellers
Am I the only one detecting the palpable smell of bull poo?
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
> @drakethewhite said: > bernatk wrote: » > > the ingame economy is ultra-capitalistic. It puts ferengis to shame. But the game's monetization is very generous. So it's a trade off... > > > > > No it's not. There's no significant destruction of wealth (creative or not) and that puts it into a completely different world than capitalism.
Yes it is. Destruction thru nerfing, release of new tier of ships, new lockbox etc. Think of it as real world wars or revolutions. It's ultra-capitalistic, the rich get richer...
Comments
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Question.
How can you claim that prices are unaffected and deny gouging will happen when in the same thread you admit to selling three promo ships for double the previous asking price?
How much inflation would have to be applied before a price is to your mind gouged?
I have no doubt if you go into a channel full of people who actually know how the economy works and how to be successful in it and try to pass your baseless fears as economic education, you will be ridiculed for it.
Always worked fine for me, provided I "request desktop site", 99% of my posts are made on my Android phones, previously the Note 5, now the Galaxy S8 Plus.
And that's the real question. The answer is, because he can and people are foolish enough to pay his price. He sees taking advantage of people's foolishness as a virtue. So to him this is not only fair, but right.
So don't be stupid. Check out the actual price of these ships, add 10% profit for convenience and don't pay an EC more to these people.
To quote Arsenio Hall... "Things that make you go hmmmmmmn....."
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
It's not.
Top end prices are already far above what it would cost a person to simply buy the boxes on their own and open them as long as they're willing to buy enough to even out the odds (which is what the space rich do). That difference will increase as the prices continue to increase for while the game inflats- C-Store prices don't.
It's already likely that the space rich are only trading between themselves with the prices at this level. Further increase will just lock that in place more tightly while most of the player base just loses interest or opens their own boxes.
Not that his claim of selling ships for that price are necessarily even true.
I'd like to think that there are players like that in the game. On a personal level, I post Ensign slot manuals at the same price they can be purchased at ESD or a Fleet starbase. Why? I don't like the idea of people who may need a manual, but for convenience, might only want to call on Captain Brott and the Azura II, rather than heading ALL the Way back to ESD, being gouged for a 1000% Convenience Tax on the exchange. That's just greed for greed's sake, and gouging someone else's need.
Why do I think it would be nice to see people do this? It's naive, I know, but I look at it this way: Any money put into the game economy is lost money. We can't go to Arc's billing page, and withdraw $$s based on our Zen total, so we can't ever get any of it back, so why not pay some of it forward, and help out the less fortunate? I know, I know, what a pitiful Ferengi I would make: I have the lobes for business, but still with a humanitarian streak. Brunt would probably come out of retirement just to have my lobes on a plate, if he knew of my charitable leanings :-\
Absolutely so, like the point I raised about very rare Starfleet Klingon female tactical boffs and their price point. A boff worth having on any crew, but certainly beyond the reach of the space poor.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
For instance, when the EntJ came out, I managed to snag not one, but three out of the promo packs (I got REALLY lucky, as I had only purchased 32 packs). I had no desire to fly the ship at all. I think it looks hideous and is a blight upon the game, but I knew I could turn them for a profit. Two of them were key sales, one giving me 275 and the other 225. The third one, however, kinda floored me. This guy offered me 30 ships (mix of T6 and T5), everything in his inventory, and 250m EC for it. I had to turn him down and give him a very stern lecture on the idea of value vs price and how people will take advantage of him if he does stuff like this. In the end, he got the EntJ, but I only took a T6 and a T5 and a few stacks of Superior Upgrades for it.
Now, there are times when a trade that favors one person over the other is acceptable. For instance, when the Privateer Lockbox came out, I got ahold of two Miradorns. This guy PMs me and asks if I'm willing to sell and offers me a Husnock for it. I told him that he's taking a bath with that trade, as I get the better end of the deal. However, he replies that it was okay, he accidentally bought two Husnocks without thinking. So we did a one for one trade, and that was the end of it.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
it would appear your perception of time has been distorted. perhaps you don't remember, but the last exchange cap raise did lead to an increase in prices, not overnight but it did happen. the price jumps i listed are accurate because i was there watching it unfold over a few months. My historical context is accurate, despite your inability to recall.
as to your thinking i went into a channel "of people who actually know" and make baseless fears of the economics. well i will say you have no idea what you are talking about. my personal opinion is this will lead to greater in-game inflation, that's just what i think and i nor you have a magic wand that can predict the future. and their ridicule was purely based on propagating their preferred outcome, and less to do with what may "actually" happen.
i make these remarks because i do not spend my life posting on forums unlike some, and while the 1% who do whine on them the rest are us are subjected to those outcomes. and those decisions are leading players away from the game, so keep making stupid remarks and keep driving players out then your trading wont amount to jack if the game closes down.
and if you actually "keep records of these things" then you are so sad i would advice taking a hard look in the mirror. perhaps another 5k posts in these forums will help your social life.
Delving into personal insults and using poor debate tactics (i.e. The "appeal to authority" argument) is usually a sign that you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation.
Just saying.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
The super rich are trading at the top end price level for the same reason the real world rich trade (for example) real estate. Often someone needs cash for something, the other needs an investment against inflation that would devalue his cash. Add in buy low and sell high and there you are.
Play the game right and you build up enough wealth that you have everything day one of release with extras to sell so that you always have everything day one of release going forward.
Something to keep in mind, investment against inflation and a place to store wealth above the EC cap are major drivers in STO. This is possible even more than it is in the real world because of the fact that STO rarely destroys wealth. The creative destruction of wealth is the only thing that allows mobility and a degree of fairness in free markets.
Now I have encountered players "giving Back to the community in some way". But this behavior is rare because it risks being taken advantage of. For example, just handing stuff out in ESD to stranger will likely result in the already Space Rich taking part of a pie not meant for them.
So such things are generally only done with people you have some level of knowledge of.
And sure, buy low, sell high, is such a simple principle, the exchange is a very easy one to get into, and ec can definitely be made on it. That can be used to improve one's endgame experience, but it's not as if it can be used to truly benefit a new alt. Sure, a new alt could be given say, a couple million ec, meaning that tier/rank appropriate very rare stuffz can be loaded right after the tutorial, but not to the extent of say, loading up mk XIV epic phasers and consoles on a T1 Miranda, and blowing the bejeesus out of the Orion Matron who was after the Azura
And yes, absolutely, there are definitely those who would try and take advantage of another's generousity just to boost their own balance, rather than true need. This is why I don't donate like that (equally, I don't have a billion ec balance which would let me do that
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Humans have a vast array of motivations for their actions. Often an individual doesn't have an answer to the "Why?" for their own actions. Whatever the cause, there's always a part of a population driven to push something as far as possible. Typically the price for this is a degree of self-destructive behavior. That's their choice and sometimes it's even useful for the wider population (unlikely in STO however).
Would you and I rather that something be useful in the real world? Sure. But our opinion on this isn't going to have any affect.
The outcome is that for whatever reason- they've built great wealth and have greatly over-priced some top end items. The answer is be aware of the actual worth of such things, and not buy them when people are selling them for too much. Make their reasons irrelevant to you.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
As you say, definitely be better to be aware of pricing trends, and not letting oneself or others be taken advantage of
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
from repetitiveepic: Accepting education is one of the best ways to learn
from warpangel: try to pass your baseless fears as economic education, you will be ridiculed for it
from themadprofessor: a sign that you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation
looks to me like i started to voice my concerns, did not direct my remarks to any person, tried to argue my points and what was the responses.. condescending and arrogance, and you talk to me about Ad Hominem attacks, you make me laugh.. don't complain when i bite back, and it would seem my remarks have touched a nerve.
you actually think people don't argue in their own vested interests then you are seriously naive. and as you admitted earlier being one of the few very rich players i take your opinions with a pinch of salt.
you want to know what my bias, my vested interest it. i want to see the player base increase, old players return. the majority having affordable access to all the ships, more content and greater player retention.. so tell me, what is the argument you and your cohorts are presenting? preserving your wealth, access to ships almost none will have?
every considered that you might be wrong, along with the others who advocate this.. every consider what you are suggesting might be bad for the game, for the players and for the financial stability of cryptic.. but who cares right, as long as you can get it.
No it's not. There's no significant destruction of wealth (creative or not) and that puts it into a completely different world than capitalism.
Personally, I will NOT use the exchange in high end ships and THANKS Cryptic this only helps me make MORE money. Actually double my sales from what the CAP was before. Surely, I'm already selling ships over 2BIL but as usual would ask for Keys or R&D packs. The exchange is useless and only helps to increase prices on those high end ships. More money for us ship sellers
Original STO beta tester.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Am I the only one detecting the palpable smell of bull poo?
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
> bernatk wrote: »
>
> the ingame economy is ultra-capitalistic. It puts ferengis to shame. But the game's monetization is very generous. So it's a trade off...
>
>
>
>
> No it's not. There's no significant destruction of wealth (creative or not) and that puts it into a completely different world than capitalism.
Yes it is. Destruction thru nerfing, release of new tier of ships, new lockbox etc. Think of it as real world wars or revolutions.
It's ultra-capitalistic, the rich get richer...