You know, I wanted to support your cause for PVP, but the condescending tone you take towards other players really isn't helping you attract people to your cause.
The question at the core of the matter-why PvP is unpopular in STO-doesn't seem to hold much interest for the more visible proponents. Why is that? Could it be because removing the more repugnant aspects* of it would rob you of your enjoyment?
*By that I mean the pay-to-win min/maxer wall. Freshly-promoted level 60s up against people who have all specializations completed, every C-Store/gamblebox trait unlocked, all the rep/crafted/fleet goodies.
Admit it. You want a mismatched, unbalanced arena that allows you to curb stomp pauper noobs, and you're now sniveling because they're not obediently showing up for it. If I were wrong, threads like this would be calling for a more balanced experience, rather than decrying Cryptic's choice to stop funneling those rep marks through the pvp/pvpve queues.
In a sad/ironic twist, I really do wish patrickngo would get the PvP he's always dreamed of; in the same fashion that I hope Reyan01 will get his T6 Nova one day. But -- and pardon the graphics -- it's like when you're a man, and you keep insisting on going to the Ladies Room. Could you try? Probably. But chances are you will be met with great resistence, subsidiarily feel constantly frustrated for not getting your way. So, at some point you need to do either of 2 things: realize you're in the wrong place, and make your peace with that, or seek out a place more suited for your needs. Yet constantly being angry over STO not being what you'd want it to be -- to quickly get back to the game *g* -- I don't see that as particularly productive: that road, as a buddhist would say, will only lead to suffering.
The answer to your question is: because I want to, and am able to.
To comment on the post a bit: OP, don't you realize you yourself and your attitude is one of the main reasons no one likes PvP or PvPers in this game?
This person gets it too.
I never went into any of the matches before they moved the marks to other venues. Now I do those venues to get my marks.
Still, I question why this affects the OP so badly, like others have questioned. Why are you so concerned with what others are doing to get their marks?
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I don't think anyone badgered anyone to get the choice of marks boxes added. They were always going to be like with every other reputation. I do agree that it could have waited until Risa to give you a couple more weeks. Because hooo boy that is a dead letter office now.
As to why people complete the rep? Because it's what we're assigned to do by Starfleet! And because most of us are compulsive and for the dil.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Horse*%#& ! I takes 10X longer to launch a PvEP mission than it did last week. The PvP-hater crowd has abandoned the missions that used to be the exclusive way to earn the PvEP marks since normal missions now award them, and left those wanting to play the PvPE missions without a way to get the mission to launch- there's just too few players left that que for them.
Cryptic killed them, NOT the players.
Offering options does not force anyone to take advantage of them. You're still railing against individual free will.
Sigh, when the normal easy mode missions award the marks that used to REQUIRE every player to risk fighting another live player, is it any wonder most went back to easy mode when given the chance ? Remember, these are the same players that found ways to AFK many of these missions. Earn while they do NOTHING. I'm actually surprised that I'm surprised about this.
None of the compmark queues have ever required anyone to fight another player. Only one of the queues involves fighting other players and even there it's entirely optional.
Also note that nobody wanted to play that queue even before the marks were put in the alerts. Wonder why?
I dont give a rat's a$$ about space...for me the only reason is the ground uniforms.
IMHO they are worth it and love to do some of the ground based stuff. Whoever cries for space barbies I can't understand but sympathize for nuking this game DPS to oblivion.
In a sad/ironic twist, I really do wish patrickngo would get the PvP he's always dreamed of; in the same fashion that I hope Reyan01 will get his T6 Nova one day.
I agree with this statement.
I am sorry people are unable to enjoy the game like they wish to....like I get to by doing the "easy stuff".
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
That flak cannon I mentioned a few min ago? Just got it and I'm glad I did. It isn't the greatest thing, but behaves so much better than the bug-zapper.
Between grinding marks for competitive or standing on a street corner hustling for cash to buy a ship with a better heavy weapon, I choose the grind. Sorry if that is annoying to OP? Not my problem.
As if we need to justify ourselves to anyone else, least of all self-entitled PvP cheerleaders.
Well said.
OP posts like this one always seem to be complaining that PvE players are somehow harming PvP,
but similar to what @valoreah said: PvE players don't affect PvP players at all.
The PvE community has a massive effect on the PvP community. It's thanks to you that DPS FAW and flying in circles is a thing. It's gameplay that you call boring, want changed and yet you fight every action to make sto combat require more skill to stop idiots taking advantage of it with their wallets. In my opinion the OP is essentially asking: If you hate PvP so much, why are you complaining about playing it? If you don't like it, don't play it, you have that option? PvPers however don't have that option. If we want gear we HAVE to PvE, there's no option to PvP for gear.
The Rewards and traits don't help you in PvE.
The boxes you get for feeding marks in give out powerups that are worthless space-occupiers in your inventory and can't be used on ninety percent of the maps in game (PvE maps_).
The rep doesn't give you nifty costume options for your space barbie.
The rep doesn't offer neat new Accolades that mean anything in your PvE playing world.
the rep store doesn't offer new and amazing weapons to help you DPS your way to greatness in PvE.
Basically the question is...
why are you so insistent on completing a reputation that offers you NOTHING???
You don't want to play the Competitive PvE missions Cryptic gave us, you oppose PvP in general principles and hate it, you look down your nose at people who do like PvP and play it, and you blame PvP players for every change to the game that you don't like.
You make that sound like a bad thing. Is it a bad thing?
Why did you badger the Devs into adding Competitive marks to the most braindead-easy PvE in the game?? Why are you stockpiling Competitive marks during the Mirror invasion instead of marks to buy stuff t hat you can actually...USE..in PvE?
I didn't badger anyone. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.
Read t he traits at each tier again. These are not useful in PvE, because they don't correspond to anything that NPC's actually DO. they're tailor made for Player vs Player encounters-the very thing you decry in disgust and scourge with your prejudice.
It's not prejudice if it's correct. Consider your own behavior. Are you suggesting we of the "don't PVP" crowd don't PVP because we don't like you? (Tell me again why I should like you.) Here's a scoop: I don't play PVP because I don't enjoy it. I don't eat sea urchin because I don't enjoy it. I don't watch teen television comedies because I don't enjoy them. What possible theory of mind are you employing that says that I should be required to like something because you do? Try this: do you like calves' liver? I do. Do you like Brussels Sprouts? I do. You should like them because I like them. How does that play, OP? That sword you're wielding has two edges, slick. Best be careful how you swing it.
The powerups in the boxes when you complete a step (Daily or Hourly) crowd your inventory and can't even be sold for EC, just disposed of by recycling.
That's space you can use for things you'll actually, y'know, USE.
Did you know you can use italics and bold face? They're so much better than CAPS.
I guess I would understand if these things were exceptionally useful in PvE-but they're NOT.
or if they offered really nifty costume options, or visuals, but they don't.
or if they offered really cool Accolades that...but they don't.
so I don't get it, aside from a few darkly negative possibilities about the nature of a lot of the vocal antis out there., anyway.
I mean, y'all can't be that petty, right??
I must be missing something. How does this affect you in any way? The marks I choose to harvest from any encounter or queued mission are my business and no one else's. Does my taking these marks somehow rob you of those marks? Is the available quantity somehow less in a way that I don't perceive? It looks to me like you're just spoiling for a fight, and couldn't think of anything constructive to do today--particularly since middle-school is out of session for the summer. (Apt because that's the level of argument you're using, bro. Seriously. Telling me your actual age won't engender more respect because the general tone and timbre of your board messages suggests that you don't know how to adult. Or, perhaps, that you've forgotten.)
And in the interest of rhetorical questions: who's being petty? *smh*
As others have pointed out only 1 of the comp PvE queues has anything to do with PvP and there's reason to do that queue for PvE like said flakcannon and the uniform that looks pretty decent.
Besides I don't hate PvP, I've had fun playing PvP with my fleet mates, but here's the catch what I do hate is being thrown into a match with a min/maxed player who only wants an easy win and if they can't kill me in 2 nanoseconds they ragequit, that's not fun for me either I loose without any chance of victory or I effortless "default victory" or as a klingon would call it "honorless victory" as the opponent chickened out when I repesented a challenge, that's probably why PvP has even smaller community then the Foundry authors, they way that community is structured is so toxic that it's pretty much impossible to get new blood to join.
The PvE community has a massive effect on the PvP community.
In my opinion the OP is essentially asking:
If you hate PvP so much, why are you complaining about playing it? If you don't like it, don't play it, you have that option?
Yeah, no. The OP is essentially blaming the PvE community for not PvP-ing.
I never badgered Cryptic for this. Dont even care about it
At least there's 10k EC's per box
I use the odd Borg RA for the marks when Ive already got the dailies for the marks I want done, so Im only on t2 of this garbage rep and only on 3 alts.
I would happily see it removed along with pvpeen from the game entirely.
I mean, that bit really doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand the mentality.
and that bothers me.
1. Large dilithium payouts (t5 rep bonus)
2. Fun new weapons (the pistol is a blast in all modes, 2-set trait useful in combo), new armor visuals (with significant customization options)
3. New gameplay options for long-term experimentation (traits, gear, active ability) even if an immediate use isn't obvious.
4. Something new to try in the queues (novelty is an important thing in an older MMO)
5. Because we can. (there's nothing keeping PVE oriented players from dipping into wargames or other queues with a competitive choice in marks)
What's the issue here?
BTW, you're making a gross generalization in lumping the PVE community at large in with the few grand-standers who were decrying wargames on principle prior to their introduction. That may be where your troublesome state of confusion is stemming from (it's a bad premise to start with, so try again.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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I mean, that bit really doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand the mentality.
and that bothers me.
1. Large dilithium payouts (t5 rep bonus)
2. Fun new weapons (the pistol is a blast), new armor visuals (with significant customization options)
3. New gameplay options for long-term experimentation (traits, gear, active ability) even if an immediate use isn't obvious.
4. Something new to try in the PVE's (novelty is an important thing in an older MMO)
5. Because we can.
What's the issue here?
I think he's just whiny because we don't want to be his free loot, that's probably why he's whining about us playing content freely provided to us rather trying to fix the underlying problem (aka that PvP is massively unpopular due to be openly and gleefully hostile to everyone who isn't a min/maxed long time player).
Patrick I occationally do PvP in WoW when I feel like and I also play Overwatch (yeah I play a lot of Blizzard games) and good balanced PvP match is loads of fun so I clearly have no problems with concept dispite your implications otherwise, however STO is nowhere close to balanced and from what I hear from people like you is that you don't even it to be, you only want to be unbalanced in your favor.
So understand this I'm not PvPing because I personally hate you, I don't know you and based on what I've seen don't want to either, I don't PvP because I find STO PvP to be utterly boring and counter to everything I find fun about PvP.
EDIT:just to put on record what I do find fun in PvP is fair and balanced match where both sides are at least in theory equal chance of victory before the match starts, STO doesn't provide me with this.
the dil payout isn't that big-for the amount of time it takes to finish tier 5 rep, you can make MORE dilithium doing other content, you know, stuff you actually enjoy doing. there's an opportunity cost involved here. (Continued Taskforce support, for example, on your existing reps, pays more over the same time period.).
This is incorrect. The T5 bonus is 32,000 dilithium. That's the equivalent of ~94 continued reputation assignments, costing ~1,411 marks. To complete T5 (first time) one only needs to complete 40 daily assignments, costing 1,200 marks (plus 25 for each tier completion). That also earns 13,600 dilithium for each daily, bringing the total earnings to 45,600 dilithium. To earn that much from continued reputation assignments, you're looking at ~134 continued rep projects costing ~2,012 marks (67% more than the T5 payout).
On top of that, T5 payouts include 750 marks of that type. Turning those in through continued rep projects brings in 17,000 additional dilithium. Total payout now: 62,600. Equivalent through completed reputation projects alone: ~184 projects costing ~2,762 marks. That's 130% more marks (in other words, more than twice as much effort.)
Keep in mind, these are the numbers for the first character that completes a reputation.
So, over a short period of time (ie. a single log-on), working on complete reps will pay more. But a lot more effort per unit time will be spent to achieve the same earnings (over a longer period of time) as a new T5 rep payout.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
but, it's a one-time payout, and that's only if you don't account for having what is it, eight, ten reps involved?
The one time payout pays more than your stated alternative (continued reputation hourlies on old reps). It is more lucrative to earn marks for new reputations than it is to continue grinding the old ones (exclusive). That is how Cryptic helps incentive new content.
Once all 11 reputations are completed (and for all other characters, for whom T5 reputation bonuses are even more lucrative), one is left with continued reputation hourlies. That is your stated alternative, ie. an equivalent state after more is earned through new reputations. It is what you eventually come to regardless, but diverting through new reps as they arrive pays out more dilithium for the marks (which is a standard unit of effort).
I clipped the rest out because it's simply a series of faulty premises (ex. presuming what I like...really?) culminating in a wide tangent. T5 reputation payouts can be earned with their host queues (ex. Core Assault, Binary Circuit, and Twin Tribulations). This is why you see "the PVE crowd" taking an interest in the competitive reputation and participating with its content from day one.
It rather answers your original question (why people want these marks, leading to why they were added [as with all marks] to special event queues and red alerts [which are good for a quick daily or top up on a critical project, not successive grinding]. It's nothing special.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Comments
You say this:
But in reality, you're projecting... the following sums up this thread pretty much nicely:
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^^ This man gets it.
*By that I mean the pay-to-win min/maxer wall. Freshly-promoted level 60s up against people who have all specializations completed, every C-Store/gamblebox trait unlocked, all the rep/crafted/fleet goodies.
Admit it. You want a mismatched, unbalanced arena that allows you to curb stomp pauper noobs, and you're now sniveling because they're not obediently showing up for it. If I were wrong, threads like this would be calling for a more balanced experience, rather than decrying Cryptic's choice to stop funneling those rep marks through the pvp/pvpve queues.
To comment on the post a bit: OP, don't you realize you yourself and your attitude is one of the main reasons no one likes PvP or PvPers in this game?
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This person gets it too.
I never went into any of the matches before they moved the marks to other venues. Now I do those venues to get my marks.
Still, I question why this affects the OP so badly, like others have questioned. Why are you so concerned with what others are doing to get their marks?
As to why people complete the rep? Because it's what we're assigned to do by Starfleet! And because most of us are compulsive and for the dil.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Also note that nobody wanted to play that queue even before the marks were put in the alerts. Wonder why?
IMHO they are worth it and love to do some of the ground based stuff. Whoever cries for space barbies I can't understand but sympathize for nuking this game DPS to oblivion.
I agree with this statement.
I am sorry people are unable to enjoy the game like they wish to....like I get to by doing the "easy stuff".
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Between grinding marks for competitive or standing on a street corner hustling for cash to buy a ship with a better heavy weapon, I choose the grind. Sorry if that is annoying to OP? Not my problem.
Well said.
OP posts like this one always seem to be complaining that PvE players are somehow harming PvP,
but similar to what @valoreah said: PvE players don't affect PvP players at all.
It's thanks to you that DPS FAW and flying in circles is a thing. It's gameplay that you call boring, want changed and yet you fight every action to make sto combat require more skill to stop idiots taking advantage of it with their wallets.
In my opinion the OP is essentially asking:
If you hate PvP so much, why are you complaining about playing it? If you don't like it, don't play it, you have that option? PvPers however don't have that option. If we want gear we HAVE to PvE, there's no option to PvP for gear.
Who says I'm insisting?
You make that sound like a bad thing. Is it a bad thing?
BECAUSE.
I didn't badger anyone. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.
It's not prejudice if it's correct. Consider your own behavior. Are you suggesting we of the "don't PVP" crowd don't PVP because we don't like you? (Tell me again why I should like you.) Here's a scoop: I don't play PVP because I don't enjoy it. I don't eat sea urchin because I don't enjoy it. I don't watch teen television comedies because I don't enjoy them. What possible theory of mind are you employing that says that I should be required to like something because you do? Try this: do you like calves' liver? I do. Do you like Brussels Sprouts? I do. You should like them because I like them. How does that play, OP? That sword you're wielding has two edges, slick. Best be careful how you swing it.
Did you know you can use italics and bold face? They're so much better than CAPS.
I won't even go there by mistake.
I must be missing something. How does this affect you in any way? The marks I choose to harvest from any encounter or queued mission are my business and no one else's. Does my taking these marks somehow rob you of those marks? Is the available quantity somehow less in a way that I don't perceive? It looks to me like you're just spoiling for a fight, and couldn't think of anything constructive to do today--particularly since middle-school is out of session for the summer. (Apt because that's the level of argument you're using, bro. Seriously. Telling me your actual age won't engender more respect because the general tone and timbre of your board messages suggests that you don't know how to adult. Or, perhaps, that you've forgotten.)
And in the interest of rhetorical questions: who's being petty? *smh*
Besides I don't hate PvP, I've had fun playing PvP with my fleet mates, but here's the catch what I do hate is being thrown into a match with a min/maxed player who only wants an easy win and if they can't kill me in 2 nanoseconds they ragequit, that's not fun for me either I loose without any chance of victory or I effortless "default victory" or as a klingon would call it "honorless victory" as the opponent chickened out when I repesented a challenge, that's probably why PvP has even smaller community then the Foundry authors, they way that community is structured is so toxic that it's pretty much impossible to get new blood to join.
Yeah, no. The OP is essentially blaming the PvE community for not PvP-ing.
At least there's 10k EC's per box
I use the odd Borg RA for the marks when Ive already got the dailies for the marks I want done, so Im only on t2 of this garbage rep and only on 3 alts.
I would happily see it removed along with pvpeen from the game entirely.
1. Large dilithium payouts (t5 rep bonus)
2. Fun new weapons (the pistol is a blast in all modes, 2-set trait useful in combo), new armor visuals (with significant customization options)
3. New gameplay options for long-term experimentation (traits, gear, active ability) even if an immediate use isn't obvious.
4. Something new to try in the queues (novelty is an important thing in an older MMO)
5. Because we can. (there's nothing keeping PVE oriented players from dipping into wargames or other queues with a competitive choice in marks)
What's the issue here?
BTW, you're making a gross generalization in lumping the PVE community at large in with the few grand-standers who were decrying wargames on principle prior to their introduction. That may be where your troublesome state of confusion is stemming from (it's a bad premise to start with, so try again.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Patrick I occationally do PvP in WoW when I feel like and I also play Overwatch (yeah I play a lot of Blizzard games) and good balanced PvP match is loads of fun so I clearly have no problems with concept dispite your implications otherwise, however STO is nowhere close to balanced and from what I hear from people like you is that you don't even it to be, you only want to be unbalanced in your favor.
So understand this I'm not PvPing because I personally hate you, I don't know you and based on what I've seen don't want to either, I don't PvP because I find STO PvP to be utterly boring and counter to everything I find fun about PvP.
EDIT:just to put on record what I do find fun in PvP is fair and balanced match where both sides are at least in theory equal chance of victory before the match starts, STO doesn't provide me with this.
This is incorrect. The T5 bonus is 32,000 dilithium. That's the equivalent of ~94 continued reputation assignments, costing ~1,411 marks. To complete T5 (first time) one only needs to complete 40 daily assignments, costing 1,200 marks (plus 25 for each tier completion). That also earns 13,600 dilithium for each daily, bringing the total earnings to 45,600 dilithium. To earn that much from continued reputation assignments, you're looking at ~134 continued rep projects costing ~2,012 marks (67% more than the T5 payout).
On top of that, T5 payouts include 750 marks of that type. Turning those in through continued rep projects brings in 17,000 additional dilithium. Total payout now: 62,600. Equivalent through completed reputation projects alone: ~184 projects costing ~2,762 marks. That's 130% more marks (in other words, more than twice as much effort.)
Keep in mind, these are the numbers for the first character that completes a reputation.
So, over a short period of time (ie. a single log-on), working on complete reps will pay more. But a lot more effort per unit time will be spent to achieve the same earnings (over a longer period of time) as a new T5 rep payout.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The one time payout pays more than your stated alternative (continued reputation hourlies on old reps). It is more lucrative to earn marks for new reputations than it is to continue grinding the old ones (exclusive). That is how Cryptic helps incentive new content.
Once all 11 reputations are completed (and for all other characters, for whom T5 reputation bonuses are even more lucrative), one is left with continued reputation hourlies. That is your stated alternative, ie. an equivalent state after more is earned through new reputations. It is what you eventually come to regardless, but diverting through new reps as they arrive pays out more dilithium for the marks (which is a standard unit of effort).
I clipped the rest out because it's simply a series of faulty premises (ex. presuming what I like...really?) culminating in a wide tangent. T5 reputation payouts can be earned with their host queues (ex. Core Assault, Binary Circuit, and Twin Tribulations). This is why you see "the PVE crowd" taking an interest in the competitive reputation and participating with its content from day one.
It rather answers your original question (why people want these marks, leading to why they were added [as with all marks] to special event queues and red alerts [which are good for a quick daily or top up on a critical project, not successive grinding]. It's nothing special.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!