Speak for yourself. There's a lot of aspects of the in-universe history I'd love to see explored.
I'm speaking for the people producing the shows and movies. ENT didn't make a prequel, they couldn't even refrain from using TNG elements in the very first episode and later had to include the temporal wars just so they weren't confined to the period they chose and still ignjored a lot of established canon. The Movies had to go the alternate timeline route just so they could make a prequel without really making a prequel but redesigning everything to be much more futuristic - the whole story could have been set post Nemesis easily, of course without the namedropping. And now there is the possiblity of DSC also pulling a ENT and inventing some situations that were never mentioned again int he entirety of the franchise. That is what I personally don't get.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Well, it looks better than I had feared, and I'm glad they dumped the TMP-reject design they had before. Not a big fan of the overall look (especially the Klingons). Feels like it takes most of its cues from JJ-Trek, and I'm not really happy about that. Of course, what really matters is the writing and you can't tell anything about that from the trailer.
They haven't dumped the TMP-reject design. The we saw in the trailer is the Shenzhou. MIchelle Yeoh plays Captain Phillippa Georgiou of the USS Shenzhou. The only character from the USS Discovery is Number One. I guess she will be transferred to the Discovery later in the episode.The Discovery is still a work in progress. I guess we will only see it by the end of the episode.
Judging by trailers I am more excited for "The Orville" than this. But anyone who doesn't like this is just butthurt and can't adapt to new things, IDIC blah blah blah so I probably won't wste my time commenting on this a lot.
It's JJ verse all over again. The more I see about Discovery the less I like it. A Klingon in a sarcophagus? God, have the writers even watched a single episode of the previous series? How many time was it said that a Klingon's dead body is just an empty shell and can disposed of?
Sadly, most people simply never noticed the change to the way Trill looked because there was only ever one episode with them before that.
Not even close to be the same. Trills were not an iconic species before TNG. I dont care if they change the Tamarians or the Sheliacks, but the Klingons are out of limit UNLESS is there is a good reason. Beatuine TOS and TMP was the issue that they look bad for a movie, but Klingons are up to 21th century movie standars, why change them?
Bill Shatner just want to appear on the new TV show, same as the JJ Movies.. he cant stop saying how much he loves JJ Abrams and bla bla bla.. is irrelevant.
So, anyone associated with TOS is a god and their Holy Word is not to be questioned - unless they think the new stuff is actually okay, then they're all washed-up attention <ladies of the evening>. Interesting.
So, anyone associated with TOS is a god and their Holy Word is not to be questioned - unless they think the new stuff is actually okay, then they're all washed-up attention <ladies of the evening>. Interesting.
I dont care who anyone associated with TOS, TNG or any other TV show saids.. I can think by my self. I only care what happend on the screen. What is canon and what is not.. if Shatner tomorrow said that Kirk was a Borg, it wont be canon.
Leonard Nimoy (RIP) was on JJ Trek.. and that does not make those movies better.
True. In the debate it's vital for people to use terms right and not confuse "canon" with "good"
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
No need to roast Mr. Shatner for his opinion. Its as valid as everybody elses. Roast those that want to raise it above other opinions
Well... when DIS comes in a way I can easily watch it I will probably watch it. At least the pilot and probably a few episodes into it. But as it is now; with their weird and inconsistent choice of setting without wanting to be in that setting and these aliens which are implied to be Klingons; I feel no hype; no urge to see it right here and now. Thinking about it actually makes me a bit sad.
So, anyone associated with TOS is a god and their Holy Word is not to be questioned - unless they think the new stuff is actually okay, then they're all washed-up attention <ladies of the evening>. Interesting.
Complex Statements aren't arguments, guy.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"How many time was it said that a Klingon's dead body is just an empty shell and can disposed of?"
It's been a established that some ancient Klingons practiced mummification, so some variant in cultural customes of Klingons is okay with me, I'm never cared for fantasy races being complete cultural monoliths. How many thousands of years of history and yet all Klingons seem to share the same traditions? Doubtful, I think it could be cool to explore various Klingon cultures we haven't been exposed to yet, it adds a sense of depth.
Rumour has it Discovery is yet another Star Trek Reboot. If these rumours are false I hope CBS refutes them as people are already turning against the series.
If Orville shows up Discovery and is a huge success with Star Trek fans, but Discovery bombs, it was be a complete disaster for CBS because, it'll be worse then if Discovery fails on it's own, because they won't be able to just say it's Star Treks fault, it will highlight all their mistakes and show it could have succeeded if better choices we're made.
CBS has refuted those rumors. Repeatedly. The funny thing about rumors is that they don't need to have facts behind them, just someone to repeat them.
And I'm really not worried about Orville "showing up" Discovery; a parody series can only last so long before it descends into self-parody. (Anyone else remember the old TV show Quark?)
Rumour has it Discovery is yet another Star Trek Reboot. If these rumours are false I hope CBS refutes them as people are already turning against the series.
If Orville shows up Discovery and is a huge success with Star Trek fans, but Discovery bombs, it was be a complete disaster for CBS because, it'll be worse then if Discovery fails on it's own, because they won't be able to just say it's Star Treks fault, it will highlight all their mistakes and show it could have succeeded if better choices we're made.
CBS has refuted those rumors. Repeatedly. The funny thing about rumors is that they don't need to have facts behind them, just someone to repeat them.
And I'm really not worried about Orville "showing up" Discovery; a parody series can only last so long before it descends into self-parody. (Anyone else remember the old TV show Quark?)
An interesting comment someone made on facebook about the rumor of a reboot, and CBS firmly saying Discovery was Prime, was to point out that that statement was made while Bryan Fuller was still involved with the series. Bryan Fuller was fired by Les Moonves, for daring to point out that fans would hate Moonves' proposed remaking of Star Trek as he wanted it. Anecdotal, I admit, but interesting to consider that if no such confirmation of Prime has been released from CBS since Bryan Fuller's departure, it wouldn't be at all difficult for the new production crew to just work to a new plan.
From what the trailers have shown us thus far, I can see The Orville being the more popular show, and Discovery taking an Enterprise-esque dive.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
From what the trailers have shown us thus far, I can see The Orville being the more popular show, and Discovery taking an Enterprise-esque dive.
But what people don't get is that this is no competition. The Orville and Discovery are not trying to compete, they are two completely different shows. It's like comparing CSI to Brooklyn Nine Nine. There are similiarities in the elements depicted, but one is a light hearted comedy and the other is a presumably serious drama. If you like one over the other you automatically prefer one without even going into anything of the particular shows to begin with. People should really not start the comparison between the two and channel their disapointment over one into hype/rage against the other.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Rumour has it Discovery is yet another Star Trek Reboot. If these rumours are false I hope CBS refutes them as people are already turning against the series.
'Yet another'?
Star Trek has never been rebooted. And people will turn against any new Star Trek. That's just what Star Trek 'fans' do. CBS just needs to make sure the show makes internal sense and carries a nice strong moral message (in the way it's always done) and leave 'fans' to their own devices.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
From what the trailers have shown us thus far, I can see The Orville being the more popular show, and Discovery taking an Enterprise-esque dive.
But what people don't get is that this is no competition. The Orville and Discovery are not trying to compete, they are two completely different shows. It's like comparing CSI to Brooklyn Nine Nine. There are similiarities in the elements depicted, but one is a light hearted comedy and the other is a presumably serious drama. If you like one over the other you automatically prefer one without even going into anything of the particular shows to begin with. People should really not start the comparison between the two and channel their disapointment over one into hype/rage against the other.
So I typed out a reply, had to edit a typo, it all disappeared, and now the forum is approving posts. I will try and repost it later.
Wellwellwelll, forumsaurus didn't swallow the post this time when correcting spelling mitsakes ^_^
Oh wait, it did. >_<
Post edited by silverlobes#2676 on
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
From what the trailers have shown us thus far, I can see The Orville being the more popular show, and Discovery taking an Enterprise-esque dive.
But what people don't get is that this is no competition. The Orville and Discovery are not trying to compete, they are two completely different shows. It's like comparing CSI to Brooklyn Nine Nine. There are similiarities in the elements depicted, but one is a light hearted comedy and the other is a presumably serious drama. If you like one over the other you automatically prefer one without even going into anything of the particular shows to begin with. People should really not start the comparison between the two and channel their disapointment over one into hype/rage against the other.
Two different shows, two different networks, they are definitely going to be competing, for viewers, for ratings, for popularity. I think you're forgetting it is in people's nature to be clannish and 'pick sides', but hey, that's your piggy-opinion, and you're entitled to it ^_^ On the whole, I do understand what you're saying. But saying 'people should not', that's not cool. #NotTryingToBeConfrontationalJustBringingItToYourAttention
You're being a bit post hoc ergo propter hoc with your last observation though, and thus making a complex statement that fans are shifting hype/rage because of comparisons or competition between the two shows. I don't think that is actually the case.
Personally, I'd heard nothing whatsoever about The Orville till I saw the trailer. I'd not heard it was in production, no idea what Seth MacFarlane was working on, nothing whatsoever. Discovery, on the other hand, I had already seen reasons why the series was being less-than-warmly anticipated: Delays, negative design reception to the Ralph McQuarrie-esque Discovery, production staff being fired, gender-politic baiting, lies from the studio about those not being Klingons - None of that said 'good show coming!' But, IDIC, I was prepared to at least wait and see what the finished product was like.
So, one evening, I happened to see the trailer for The Orville, and was thouroughly impressed and captivated. The next day, in what I consider to have been a knee-jerk release, I saw the trailer for Discovery. And I did not like what I saw. We get told '10 years before Kirk and the Enterprise', which puts things square in the era of The Cage, but do we see a ship and officers who could have been in The Cage? No, we see a ship and officers that could well fit into the continuity post-Nemesis, or in the Kelvin Timeline. But we've already been told that this is to be Prime Timeline, and '10 years before Kirk and the Enterprise'. The two concepts just aren't aligning in what we have been shown. If Prelude to Axanar could recreate the aesthetic and capture the feel of the Prime Timeline in the era of The Cage, what is Discovery's reason for not doing so? Could this simply be a complete reboot? I would not mind if this was a reboot, so long as they said this upfront, rather than saying it's one thing, and then bringing something else to the table. I could make an adult comparable to this situation which I think would perfectly make the point, but will not do so on open-forum.
I mentioned to lordgyor and jonsills above, that I have seen the observation, that following the firing of Bryan Fuller, production plans could have changed. If true, this would allow for the things we see in the trailer, for things like a shift from the Prime Timeline to the Kelvin Timeline, or just a straight up reboot. But that still doesn't explain the incongruity of the Shenzhou and crew looking like they are post-Nemesis, and us specifically being told '10 years before Kirk and the Enterprise'. Maybe the Shenzhou is a 25th Century ship, and things are somehow going to shift to the 22nd Century. Afterall, we have been told that this is a show about several ships and crews, and I think I remember some of the pre-release info suggesting an anthology show at different points along the timeline. What we see in the trailer does not preclude that possibility, and as someone pointed out, 'trailers lie'. So perhaps, we will still get an era-accurate 22nd Century Prime Timeline ship and setting. "Exciting!" - Montgomery Scott
Now I really can't say all that without mentioning the Klingons seen in the trailer. NOT MUH KLINGONZ!!! Many are screeching. But not me. Add facial and cranial hair, and those would look like any reasonable variation of Klingon seen from Search for Spock through TNG, DS 9, VOY, and back to Enterprise pre-Augment virus. The question, is 'why are they bald?' Conjectures are of cultural reasons, religious sect, fashion of the era, some unknown side-effect of whatever arcophagus-thing their ship is. The thing is, at this point, with the information we have, we don't know, we can only guess. I hope, that once we have that 'why', things will become clear.
So to reacharound to the begining of my explanation, people who aren't happy with what they see in Discovery so far aren't simply jumping ship for The Orville Because Muh Klingonz!!! They had already jumped ship for the reasons I mentioned with the production. Or if they hadn't quite jumped ship, they definitely had one foot in the escape pod and were waiting for the sign to launch or stand-down. But then The Orville came along and gave a place to land which felt like home.
People are saying that The Orville has 'the feel of Star Trek', and that Discovery feels 'like the JJ Movies', and they are feeling understandably short-changed, given the hook of Prime Timeline '10 years before Kirk and the Enterprise'. People aren't hating on Discovery because they like The Orville, or liking The Orvile just because they don't like the look of Discovery. That was the flaw in your reasoning: Post hoc ergo propter hoc (After this, therefore because of this) People are wary of Discovery for several legitimate reasons. People are getting behind The Orville because it looks good. And it looks fun. And according to the pretty hat lady's sig, "Your fun isn't wrong"
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Fuller's own statement - he was not "fired", he simply determined that he didn't have time to oversee DSC *and* produce American Gods *and* work on a movie he was working on (forget which one) *and* also have anything even vaguely resembling a personal life.
So, you're using an unsupported rumor to support another rumor. A bit like trying to build a bridge by starting in the middle and heading toward both ends...
Also, so far as I can tell, the "people" saying these things about Orville and DSC are you, silver. Haven't run across any other references. (Then again, I don't go anywhere near 4chan - maybe that's where all this is coming from...)
Fuller's own statement - he was not "fired", he simply determined that he didn't have time to oversee DSC *and* produce American Gods *and* work on a movie he was working on (forget which one) *and* also have anything even vaguely resembling a personal life.
So, you're using an unsupported rumor to support another rumor. A bit like trying to build a bridge by starting in the middle and heading toward both ends...
Also, so far as I can tell, the "people" saying these things about Orville and DSC are you, silver. Haven't run across any other references. (Then again, I don't go anywhere near 4chan - maybe that's where all this is coming from...)
That you aren't aware of these references, doesn't invalidate them. I openly admit, I'm speaking anecdotally from comments I've seen made on facebook threads, as opposed to quotable links, but Argumentum ad logicam: the fallacy of assuming that something is false simply because a proof or argument that someone has offered for it is considered invalid; this reasoning is fallacious because there may be another proof or argument that successfully supports the proposition. This fallacy often appears in the context of a straw man argument.
Bryan Fuller's statement is sugar-coating the situation, nothing more.
I don't go near 4chan either, but if you look through some discussion threads on facebook, and probably reddit too, you'll see the kind of comments I'm talking about. Especially the ones where folks are showing support for The Orville, but not because they're also bashing Discovery at the same time. Comments where people are pointing out concerns for Discovery (TrekYards, for example) which are quantifiable concerns, based on the shows' hook, not aligning in any way with what the trailer has shown.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Comments
I'm speaking for the people producing the shows and movies. ENT didn't make a prequel, they couldn't even refrain from using TNG elements in the very first episode and later had to include the temporal wars just so they weren't confined to the period they chose and still ignjored a lot of established canon. The Movies had to go the alternate timeline route just so they could make a prequel without really making a prequel but redesigning everything to be much more futuristic - the whole story could have been set post Nemesis easily, of course without the namedropping. And now there is the possiblity of DSC also pulling a ENT and inventing some situations that were never mentioned again int he entirety of the franchise. That is what I personally don't get.
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They haven't dumped the TMP-reject design. The we saw in the trailer is the Shenzhou. MIchelle Yeoh plays Captain Phillippa Georgiou of the USS Shenzhou. The only character from the USS Discovery is Number One. I guess she will be transferred to the Discovery later in the episode.The Discovery is still a work in progress. I guess we will only see it by the end of the episode.
It's JJ verse all over again. The more I see about Discovery the less I like it. A Klingon in a sarcophagus? God, have the writers even watched a single episode of the previous series? How many time was it said that a Klingon's dead body is just an empty shell and can disposed of?
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Not even close to be the same. Trills were not an iconic species before TNG. I dont care if they change the Tamarians or the Sheliacks, but the Klingons are out of limit UNLESS is there is a good reason. Beatuine TOS and TMP was the issue that they look bad for a movie, but Klingons are up to 21th century movie standars, why change them?
Foot locked into the you know what, and roasting to commence in 4...3...2...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I dont care who anyone associated with TOS, TNG or any other TV show saids.. I can think by my self. I only care what happend on the screen. What is canon and what is not.. if Shatner tomorrow said that Kirk was a Borg, it wont be canon.
Leonard Nimoy (RIP) was on JJ Trek.. and that does not make those movies better.
My character Tsin'xing
True. In the debate it's vital for people to use terms right and not confuse "canon" with "good"
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My character Tsin'xing
Well... when DIS comes in a way I can easily watch it I will probably watch it. At least the pilot and probably a few episodes into it. But as it is now; with their weird and inconsistent choice of setting without wanting to be in that setting and these aliens which are implied to be Klingons; I feel no hype; no urge to see it right here and now. Thinking about it actually makes me a bit sad.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
It's been a established that some ancient Klingons practiced mummification, so some variant in cultural customes of Klingons is okay with me, I'm never cared for fantasy races being complete cultural monoliths. How many thousands of years of history and yet all Klingons seem to share the same traditions? Doubtful, I think it could be cool to explore various Klingon cultures we haven't been exposed to yet, it adds a sense of depth.
Rumour has it Discovery is yet another Star Trek Reboot. If these rumours are false I hope CBS refutes them as people are already turning against the series.
If Orville shows up Discovery and is a huge success with Star Trek fans, but Discovery bombs, it was be a complete disaster for CBS because, it'll be worse then if Discovery fails on it's own, because they won't be able to just say it's Star Treks fault, it will highlight all their mistakes and show it could have succeeded if better choices we're made.
And I'm really not worried about Orville "showing up" Discovery; a parody series can only last so long before it descends into self-parody. (Anyone else remember the old TV show Quark?)
From what the trailers have shown us thus far, I can see The Orville being the more popular show, and Discovery taking an Enterprise-esque dive.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
But what people don't get is that this is no competition. The Orville and Discovery are not trying to compete, they are two completely different shows. It's like comparing CSI to Brooklyn Nine Nine. There are similiarities in the elements depicted, but one is a light hearted comedy and the other is a presumably serious drama. If you like one over the other you automatically prefer one without even going into anything of the particular shows to begin with. People should really not start the comparison between the two and channel their disapointment over one into hype/rage against the other.
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'Yet another'?
Star Trek has never been rebooted. And people will turn against any new Star Trek. That's just what Star Trek 'fans' do. CBS just needs to make sure the show makes internal sense and carries a nice strong moral message (in the way it's always done) and leave 'fans' to their own devices.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Wellwellwelll, forumsaurus didn't swallow the post this time when correcting spelling mitsakes ^_^
Oh wait, it did. >_<
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
You're being a bit post hoc ergo propter hoc with your last observation though, and thus making a complex statement that fans are shifting hype/rage because of comparisons or competition between the two shows. I don't think that is actually the case.
Personally, I'd heard nothing whatsoever about The Orville till I saw the trailer. I'd not heard it was in production, no idea what Seth MacFarlane was working on, nothing whatsoever. Discovery, on the other hand, I had already seen reasons why the series was being less-than-warmly anticipated: Delays, negative design reception to the Ralph McQuarrie-esque Discovery, production staff being fired, gender-politic baiting, lies from the studio about those not being Klingons - None of that said 'good show coming!' But, IDIC, I was prepared to at least wait and see what the finished product was like.
So, one evening, I happened to see the trailer for The Orville, and was thouroughly impressed and captivated. The next day, in what I consider to have been a knee-jerk release, I saw the trailer for Discovery. And I did not like what I saw. We get told '10 years before Kirk and the Enterprise', which puts things square in the era of The Cage, but do we see a ship and officers who could have been in The Cage? No, we see a ship and officers that could well fit into the continuity post-Nemesis, or in the Kelvin Timeline. But we've already been told that this is to be Prime Timeline, and '10 years before Kirk and the Enterprise'. The two concepts just aren't aligning in what we have been shown. If Prelude to Axanar could recreate the aesthetic and capture the feel of the Prime Timeline in the era of The Cage, what is Discovery's reason for not doing so? Could this simply be a complete reboot? I would not mind if this was a reboot, so long as they said this upfront, rather than saying it's one thing, and then bringing something else to the table. I could make an adult comparable to this situation which I think would perfectly make the point, but will not do so on open-forum.
I mentioned to lordgyor and jonsills above, that I have seen the observation, that following the firing of Bryan Fuller, production plans could have changed. If true, this would allow for the things we see in the trailer, for things like a shift from the Prime Timeline to the Kelvin Timeline, or just a straight up reboot. But that still doesn't explain the incongruity of the Shenzhou and crew looking like they are post-Nemesis, and us specifically being told '10 years before Kirk and the Enterprise'. Maybe the Shenzhou is a 25th Century ship, and things are somehow going to shift to the 22nd Century. Afterall, we have been told that this is a show about several ships and crews, and I think I remember some of the pre-release info suggesting an anthology show at different points along the timeline. What we see in the trailer does not preclude that possibility, and as someone pointed out, 'trailers lie'. So perhaps, we will still get an era-accurate 22nd Century Prime Timeline ship and setting. "Exciting!" - Montgomery Scott
Now I really can't say all that without mentioning the Klingons seen in the trailer. NOT MUH KLINGONZ!!! Many are screeching. But not me. Add facial and cranial hair, and those would look like any reasonable variation of Klingon seen from Search for Spock through TNG, DS 9, VOY, and back to Enterprise pre-Augment virus. The question, is 'why are they bald?' Conjectures are of cultural reasons, religious sect, fashion of the era, some unknown side-effect of whatever arcophagus-thing their ship is. The thing is, at this point, with the information we have, we don't know, we can only guess. I hope, that once we have that 'why', things will become clear.
So to reacharound to the begining of my explanation, people who aren't happy with what they see in Discovery so far aren't simply jumping ship for The Orville Because Muh Klingonz!!! They had already jumped ship for the reasons I mentioned with the production. Or if they hadn't quite jumped ship, they definitely had one foot in the escape pod and were waiting for the sign to launch or stand-down. But then The Orville came along and gave a place to land which felt like home.
People are saying that The Orville has 'the feel of Star Trek', and that Discovery feels 'like the JJ Movies', and they are feeling understandably short-changed, given the hook of Prime Timeline '10 years before Kirk and the Enterprise'. People aren't hating on Discovery because they like The Orville, or liking The Orvile just because they don't like the look of Discovery. That was the flaw in your reasoning: Post hoc ergo propter hoc (After this, therefore because of this) People are wary of Discovery for several legitimate reasons. People are getting behind The Orville because it looks good. And it looks fun. And according to the pretty hat lady's sig, "Your fun isn't wrong"
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
So, you're using an unsupported rumor to support another rumor. A bit like trying to build a bridge by starting in the middle and heading toward both ends...
Also, so far as I can tell, the "people" saying these things about Orville and DSC are you, silver. Haven't run across any other references. (Then again, I don't go anywhere near 4chan - maybe that's where all this is coming from...)
That you aren't aware of these references, doesn't invalidate them. I openly admit, I'm speaking anecdotally from comments I've seen made on facebook threads, as opposed to quotable links, but Argumentum ad logicam: the fallacy of assuming that something is false simply because a proof or argument that someone has offered for it is considered invalid; this reasoning is fallacious because there may be another proof or argument that successfully supports the proposition. This fallacy often appears in the context of a straw man argument.
Bryan Fuller's statement is sugar-coating the situation, nothing more.
I don't go near 4chan either, but if you look through some discussion threads on facebook, and probably reddit too, you'll see the kind of comments I'm talking about. Especially the ones where folks are showing support for The Orville, but not because they're also bashing Discovery at the same time. Comments where people are pointing out concerns for Discovery (TrekYards, for example) which are quantifiable concerns, based on the shows' hook, not aligning in any way with what the trailer has shown.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
https://www.facebook.com/TheOrville/videos/134880717058405/
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
https://www.facebook.com/TheOrville/photos/a.134746140405196.1073741828.127428534470290/134743290405481/?type=3&theater
(Sorry for the multiples, but after last time, I'm wary of editing posts to add stuff.)
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
http://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/03/08/star-trek-discovery-trouble/
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth