Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
YES! YES YES!
It is not intuitive, a pain to navigate, and actually has reduced functionality over the old one, namely the inability to queue more than one difficulty of the same mission. There was no reason for this new UI, absolutely none.
Which system doesn't matter that much to me - However, re-instate the Crystalline Entity mission - The one with 5 players. Short and fun is exactly the point, for those who don't have a lot of time (like myself) it's ideal to get fleet marks for the SB projects fast.
Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
As requested:
Left side shows me queued for an elite mission, right side shows what I see when I check PvE to see how the queue is going. It defaults back to Basic. If you're queued for all advanced or elite missions the only way you can check is if you manually change each mission to the required difficulty.
Which falls under "Memorized where everything is". Alphabet aside, knowing where it is on the list means you just scroll down to that section. But the list has been getting longer for years, and sometimes you might forget exactly what gives what.
Perhaps you never realized that the previous queue system had filter options for Space/Ground, Difficulty, and Mark Type.
Are you seriously saying long lists are scary and intimidating? That's pandering to child level fear of libraries and books because they contain much writing, despite everything being organized. This game's rated T for Teen.
'Memorizing' a filtered list is no different than the current system which simply makes it 'prettier,' but much less efficient due to redundancy of clicking multiple times and of viewing the same listings under multiple categories, and involves no higher order cognitive processing than looking for word in a dictionary a few times until it becomes a habit of scrolling to a section (of grinding the same content multiple times over weeks and months) not much different than tying your shoelaces.
How is having every single queue thrown in our face in a LONG list leaner?
Filters. They existed in the old system, and worked perfectly. They just didn't have pretty icons, and were more compact as a drop-down instead of tabs with icons showing the same things multiple times - a drop-down filter identical to those for Doffing.
They also allowed you to combine searches: eg. Iconian Marks and Fleet Marks and Nukara marks. Why? You could see which ones were active from that list. New system? Nope, can't do that anymore.
The old UI had its issues. The new UI has its issues. The new one is also BRAND NEW and needs to be ironed out. Not scrapped entirely because its different.
Prove it. The only issue I've experienced was double-clicking on something resulting in being queued for something else, so I used the Join button instead, and the "leave queue" on the prompt menu, the latter of which no longer exists as we're just randomly thrown into queues with zero warning or options.
The new one is also BRAND NEW and needs to be ironed out. Not scrapped entirely because its different.
No one's arguing that being different is bad as if people can't adjust. It's that when something less functional, less intuitive, more redundant, and with less options (cool-downs) replaces the old, it's the very definition of a downgrade.
And I never used a mouse wheel because for a long time I was using a mouse with a semi busted mouse wheel that wouldn't scroll properly. So I had to resort to click and drag.
And here you are, arguing that everyone should be dumbed down to your level of broken. Big scary lists that get longer, scroll bars, drop-down filter lists, the horrors. Get real.
Constructive Feedback means actually GIVING VIABLE INFORMATION ON WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T.
Who appointed you as judge and executioner of feedback? I'll leave my feedback followed by suggestions as I please. Capitalize, yell, and misinterpret it all you want.
Somewhat off-topic: I'll also say the new system follows the dumbing down trend seen everywhere: previously good systems are gutted and oversimplified to the point of no functionality, swept to the masses under the guise of 'user-friendly' but they achieve one end-goal: removal of power for the masses, into the hands of the few who own it all. What's particularly insidious about their methods is when you get the masses to fight each other over the removal of power, and the sanctioning of top-down control over them, and it works. But nevermind me, call me tinfoil fashionista, carry on, nothing to see here.
Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
Did someone seriously say as customers we have no right to question the decisions made by Cryptic?
I know of two cases where I encountered players who believe you aren't allowed to question the decisions of game Devs, because they know what's best for the game and we don't (from their perspective).
Personally, after having a lot of my favorite tv shows and games cancelled because of management directors who do what they want and don't care about their customers, I firmly believe if a corporation disregards constructive feedback and doesn't take their consumer base opinions into consideration, then they're a bad business.
Personally, I live by the rule "if it isn't broke, don't fix it".
There was nothing wrong with the old queue system, so why change it?
I looked at the new one and spent 5-10 minutes trying to find the queues I was looking for.
That's a 30 second task under the old system!
I'm also concerned that if I choose to do the Competitive Reputation, I may accidentally end up in a PvP match instead of a CPvE match.
Since I really loathe PVP, I naturally want to avoid this happening!
I haven't looked recently, but I see if the system made a distinction between CPvE and PvP matches so you know which one is which.
To be brutally honest, PWE really doesn't care about STO/CO/Cryptic players.
I think they only bought Cryptic to get more players for their games.
I researched PWE's catalogue once and there was nothing of interest to me, so I don't really care what games they offer.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Never going to happen, they need to bring persistence of choice sticky to this. Other items as indicated previously by others. They never roll back systems, they tweak, though not as much as they should to make it friendlier in QoL type ways.
For example, who really likes the ordering of Boff Skill Books in your R&D Tab and selection for narrowing? Specialization, Tier, and Space/Ground would suffice.
Fix the recommended Specialization for Doffs (green) in the Select Doff choice, sent to the bottom of the list since AoY, when they were always at the top before. Top is the correct answer.
Clear up any Reputation Projects that still need Doffs and convert that to Dilitium (100 per). I believe some Nakura consumables.
Separate Reputation Active Traits for Ground and Space as they did with Personal Traits.
Primary/Secondary Specialization Selections for your Character for Space and for Ground.
You get what I mean.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
Wow last night was the first time I team queued since the change, and while it still sucks for all of the same reasons when your doing a solo que , we also lost pre-game/pre-que chat, so now queues are less organization, we have less communications,and less chances to interact
Way to kill off teamwork, heck who needs to talk to anyone anyways?
Which falls under "Memorized where everything is". Alphabet aside, knowing where it is on the list means you just scroll down to that section. But the list has been getting longer for years, and sometimes you might forget exactly what gives what.
Perhaps you never realized that the previous queue system had filter options for Space/Ground, Difficulty, and Mark Type.
Are you seriously saying long lists are scary and intimidating? That's pandering to child level fear of libraries and books because they contain much writing, despite everything being organized. This game's rated T for Teen.
'Memorizing' a filtered list is no different than the current system which simply makes it 'prettier,' but much less efficient due to redundancy of clicking multiple times and of viewing the same listings under multiple categories, and involves no higher order cognitive processing than looking for word in a dictionary a few times until it becomes a habit of scrolling to a section (of grinding the same content multiple times over weeks and months) not much different than tying your shoelaces.
How is having every single queue thrown in our face in a LONG list leaner?
Filters. They existed in the old system, and worked perfectly. They just didn't have pretty icons, and were more compact as a drop-down instead of tabs with icons showing the same things multiple times - a drop-down filter identical to those for Doffing.
They also allowed you to combine searches: eg. Iconian Marks and Fleet Marks and Nukara marks. Why? You could see which ones were active from that list. New system? Nope, can't do that anymore.
The old UI had its issues. The new UI has its issues. The new one is also BRAND NEW and needs to be ironed out. Not scrapped entirely because its different.
Prove it. The only issue I've experienced was double-clicking on something resulting in being queued for something else, so I used the Join button instead, and the "leave queue" on the prompt menu, the latter of which no longer exists as we're just randomly thrown into queues with zero warning or options.
The new one is also BRAND NEW and needs to be ironed out. Not scrapped entirely because its different.
No one's arguing that being different is bad as if people can't adjust. It's that when something less functional, less intuitive, more redundant, and with less options (cool-downs) replaces the old, it's the very definition of a downgrade.
And I never used a mouse wheel because for a long time I was using a mouse with a semi busted mouse wheel that wouldn't scroll properly. So I had to resort to click and drag.
And here you are, arguing that everyone should be dumbed down to your level of broken. Big scary lists that get longer, scroll bars, drop-down filter lists, the horrors. Get real.
Constructive Feedback means actually GIVING VIABLE INFORMATION ON WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T.
Who appointed you as judge and executioner of feedback? I'll leave my feedback followed by suggestions as I please. Capitalize, yell, and misinterpret it all you want.
Somewhat off-topic: I'll also say the new system follows the dumbing down trend seen everywhere: previously good systems are gutted and oversimplified to the point of no functionality, swept to the masses under the guise of 'user-friendly' but they achieve one end-goal: removal of power for the masses, into the hands of the few who own it all. What's particularly insidious about their methods is when you get the masses to fight each other over the removal of power, and the sanctioning of top-down control over them, and it works. But nevermind me, call me tinfoil fashionista, carry on, nothing to see here.
I'll admit to having been away from the forums for a while, but it's good to see alcyoneserene still hammering out well reasoned points with blunt force honesty.
Needless to say, all of the above. Just, 'THIS', so much 'this'. I tried to be a bit more diplomatic about it...
As a slight side point, I never found the old mark filters particularly useful, noting that certain queues didn't show up when I tried to use them, so I just quickly scrolled down and selected what I wanted that way after removing ground content. To that end I can only assume an issue with Cryptics implementation of filters given similar issues with such functions on the exchange.
Did someone seriously say as customers we have no right to question the decisions made by Cryptic?
I know of two cases where I encountered players who believe you aren't allowed to question the decisions of game Devs, because they know what's best for the game and we don't (from their perspective).
Personally, after having a lot of my favorite tv shows and games cancelled because of management directors who do what they want and don't care about their customers, I firmly believe if a corporation disregards constructive feedback and doesn't take their consumer base opinions into consideration, then they're a bad business.
And PWE seemingly pushing Cryptic for money rather than producing a quality title. This is an important piece of perspective. Yes, I will absolutely throw shade at Crpytic devs for shady content but ultimately I don't think they want to do a poor job and are being pushed from elsewhere.
What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
Stop new content until quality returns
What chat? I did Borg Disconnected last night and you could chat to your hearts content in the 30 second wait before it could start. Chat depends on how that Queue was configured. Crystalline just has an annoying double clear NPC dialog box. No one wants to chat there just get it over with as soon as possible.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
I like the look, a bit updated - looks nice. Unfortunately it feels they took form over function - I entered a couple queues and half didn't give me an ENGAGE button to enter the match, game just entered. At least I got in to a match. This would be an issue if I had queued up for more than one mission at once and not having the choice of which I chose to enter.
Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.
That I can agree with but it doesn't get away from the fact that you based your decision and comments on a factor that wasn't involved in the given topic and even taking that into consideration are now overlooking some of the good ideas which exist here.
One of the major improvements that has come from the change and nearly everyone seems to agree upon is the ability to filter by reward. What's generally annoying people is the convoluted manner which which queueing now takes place and their continually having to apply and reapply difficulty settings, along with the inability to retain an at a glance overview of the queues you're interested in. By your comment though it seems that these suggestions would only come up in a topic which is worded differently, clearly this isn't the case as supporters and detractors both voice the opinions given the topic, regardless of it's bias.
So. How can we improve the PvE queue menu system? Revert it back to the old one. Instant improvement.
If they then want to give the old system a spit-shine with some new visuals and take the main positive from the current iteration by adding filters, I think the majority here would agree they'd love that. Certainly, going on the various comments in this and other threads, the in game chat, out of game chat apps and so on, that would seem to be the case.
I'm not discounting anyone's ideas or suggestions on actually improving the new UI. Rolling back to the old UI does not improve on the new UI, though. It's just going back to the old UI.
Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.
A point of a poll like this is SHOWING what the players want. The obviously don't like the new queue, so it would be best to roll it back to the style before. The design before was CLEANER and SIMPLER. Now it has become overly complicated and unwieldy.
I think that Cryptic probably knows what's best for their game. They actually know, better than we, what they have planned... what's coming in the future. It's quite possible that this new UI was a necessary step towards something down the line. Again, I have no issue with ideas or suggestions on actual improvements to the new UI. But equating stepping backwards to stepping forward is not necessarily true.
Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.
They could best improve the new queues system by rolling it back to the old one.
Except, as I said, that doesn't exactly improve the new UI. It just replaces it with the old UI.
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Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
In its current state, I'd prefer the old version. Once some improvements are made, the new system would be better.
I really like the way it separates queues by the type of marks they provide. This is the one thing I really like about the new system.
I didn't figure out how to find the Advanced and Elite queues until just yesterday, a week after the new system went live. Either list all the queue difficulties, or make the difficulty dropdown arrow more prominent.
It should queue you as soon as you check the box, not require an extra click on a button somewhere else on the screen.
The marks cooldown should be there, and I think I saw a dev post awhile back that it was going to be added. I think the cooldown should also be shown for the list of queues that provide that specific type of mark.
I have no idea why I get so many system messages when I invite other players to my team. Some of them even seem redundant.
Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.
They could best improve the new queues system by rolling it back to the old one.
Except, as I said, that doesn't exactly improve the new UI. It just replaces it with the old UI.
Which, as I said, is better. In almost every conceivable way.
The category tabs are pretty much the only thing about the new UI that's an honest improvement on the old one and even it would require an "All" category to avoid reduced functionality.
I would venture to guess they did not think of removing it but it was not in place when they began laying the groundwork for this system.
For another example of this, see how the Delta Reputation implemented with the Delta Expansion. All the other Reputations had already moved on to self-opening Marks Boxes. Delta did not, as it was based on the previous code fork. Wasn't corrected in a timely manner and they had themselves a problem with a soon to be Bonus Marks Weekend. Correction, make Daily Bonuses ineligible for the Bonus, then eventually got around to make Boxes self-opening.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If you're in longer wait missions you can't even see how many others are queued as it reverts back to the beginner option which is useless.
got a screenshot? since that sounds different than what I see.
As requested:
Left side shows me queued for an elite mission, right side shows what I see when I check PvE to see how the queue is going. It defaults back to Basic. If you're queued for all advanced or elite missions the only way you can check is if you manually change each mission to the required difficulty.
Ah, I see. It would make more sense for that to be a toggle that affects the whole window.
Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.
They could best improve the new queues system by rolling it back to the old one.
Except, as I said, that doesn't exactly improve the new UI. It just replaces it with the old UI.
Which, as I said, is better. In almost every conceivable way.
The category tabs are pretty much the only thing about the new UI that's an honest improvement on the old one and even it would require an "All" category to avoid reduced functionality.
Among other things the old UI was too long, horrible to handle and a pain to use. If you consider the old UI better in almost every conceivable way then you have a very limited perception.
The new UI is organized by reward without having to use clumsy filters. There are some improvements desirable like a return of the cool down timer and an option to only show specific difficulties, but even in its current state it is a step up from the clutter which was the old UI.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Of course, the new queue is terrible in just about every way, and where is my cooldown list, why on earth would they think removing that recently added feature would be a good idea?
the devs have stated that the cooldown list is making a return it just was not able to be implemented onto this build and they already working on getting it prepped for reinstatement this Thursday or possibly even next Thursday i forget which but it will return
Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.
They could best improve the new queues system by rolling it back to the old one.
Except, as I said, that doesn't exactly improve the new UI. It just replaces it with the old UI.
Which, as I said, is better. In almost every conceivable way.
The category tabs are pretty much the only thing about the new UI that's an honest improvement on the old one and even it would require an "All" category to avoid reduced functionality.
Among other things the old UI was too long, horrible to handle and a pain to use. If you consider the old UI better in almost every conceivable way then you have a very limited perception.
The new UI is organized by reward without having to use clumsy filters. There are some improvements desirable like a return of the cool down timer and an option to only show specific difficulties, but even in its current state it is a step up from the clutter which was the old UI.
The old UI wasn't too long for me and I never had any problem using it. The new UI on the other hand is, among other things, way too labor-intensive, clumsy and lacking in relevant information and control. Many routine operations are completely impossible now and basically everything requires more work to do.
Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
I think the new queue system looks much better. I really do.
That said, it is broken. It is broken on release. Cryptic has a track record of releasing unfinished and buggy content and straight up not fixing it. The map merge, which was something I looked forward to for a very long time, has still left doffing in a busted state, seasons later. I have little confidence that they can polish this thing in a timely fashion.
The broken items are listed in this thread ad nauseam. The ones that irk me the most are the fact that selecting advanced doesn't "stick", and if you want to check how your queue is doing, you have to fumble around, and the removal of the Cooldowns button, which in my opinion was the best QOL improvement to PvE in years.
The old system sucked, and more importantly, they were lazy and left old queues pinned at the top for too long, but this new window has serious functionality issues that show it is not ready for prime time. They should have left well enough alone until it was ready.
But hey, we can no longer see how many people are actually playing each oneright now (at least that I have found), so the reporting error about the dead queues is fixed right? Those numbers were getting a little embarrassing in the old queue window over the past few months.
That I can agree with but it doesn't get away from the fact that you based your decision and comments on a factor that wasn't involved in the given topic and even taking that into consideration are now overlooking some of the good ideas which exist here.
One of the major improvements that has come from the change and nearly everyone seems to agree upon is the ability to filter by reward. What's generally annoying people is the convoluted manner which which queueing now takes place and their continually having to apply and reapply difficulty settings, along with the inability to retain an at a glance overview of the queues you're interested in. By your comment though it seems that these suggestions would only come up in a topic which is worded differently, clearly this isn't the case as supporters and detractors both voice the opinions given the topic, regardless of it's bias.
So. How can we improve the PvE queue menu system? Revert it back to the old one. Instant improvement.
If they then want to give the old system a spit-shine with some new visuals and take the main positive from the current iteration by adding filters, I think the majority here would agree they'd love that. Certainly, going on the various comments in this and other threads, the in game chat, out of game chat apps and so on, that would seem to be the case.
I'm not discounting anyone's ideas or suggestions on actually improving the new UI. Rolling back to the old UI does not improve on the new UI, though. It's just going back to the old UI.
Which absolutely would be an improvement to the UI for this aspect of the game which is absolutely the paramount issue here regardless of whether it's 'new' or 'old', but if it's 'functional' and better at it's given function overall.
A point of a poll like this is SHOWING what the players want. The obviously don't like the new queue, so it would be best to roll it back to the style before. The design before was CLEANER and SIMPLER. Now it has become overly complicated and unwieldy.
I think that Cryptic probably knows what's best for their game. They actually know, better than we, what they have planned... what's coming in the future. It's quite possible that this new UI was a necessary step towards something down the line. Again, I have no issue with ideas or suggestions on actual improvements to the new UI. But equating stepping backwards to stepping forward is not necessarily true.
Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.
They could best improve the new queues system by rolling it back to the old one.
Except, as I said, that doesn't exactly improve the new UI. It just replaces it with the old UI.
They might well know what they have planned for the game but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better for the players who play the game and/or inherently better for the game overall. It is entirely possible that the direction they have in mind is actually detrimental and I agree that we won't know that until they show us the changes, at which point we must give our opinions, impressions and suggestions for improvement, even if that is to say that it's 'stupid and needs rolled back'.
I accept that there are people who go over the score but we absolutely must be critical (in as far as the proper definition of the term with regard to analysis) of all changes which come into the game if we're to have any hopes of true improvements overall. That, as you suggested previously, Cryptic don't listen because of how toxic this community can be then frankly that's a separate issue and when compared to the substantially less toxic communities of other games, it is clearly then Cryptics own doing and they must address them, and separately too. That they would ignore this topic because of others is ludicrous, just as automatically giving in to player wishes on a future topic without proper consideration based on the interactions of this topic (if they were to actually listen to the majority so far shown here) would also be utterly ludicrous.
Frankly insinuating that every step is a forward step is ridiculous too. Sitting as a blind 'yes man' saying that the changes are wonderful as the levels of raw sewage being pumped into the system are rising up to your neck isn't going to do anyone any favours.
The new UI has been stated often and by many to have an improved mission reward filter, even if the application of that filter is actually detrimental on more than one front. This gives us one step forward and two steps backwards (one for queue viewing, one for tracking)
The difficulty filter has been moved from being a column header to mission specific and continually resets itself. Bug or as intended aside, that's another step back when it would actually be easier to see at a glance what difficulties are available, even within the new tabbed style.
The lost use of CD timers and the whole HOST of bugs which have been introduced, essentially without need. Given I gave two steps above, I'll restrict this to just one even though it should probably be 5+.
So, one step forward, four steps backwards. Of those 4 steps, we might get it back to just the top point eventually in which case it'll still be 1 forward, 2 back, chachacha...
What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
Stop new content until quality returns
I don't have any complaints about the queue system other than...
1) You can't queue up for the same mission at multiple difficulties UNLESS you queue for one, select a new difficulty, try to drop it (fails) then queue up for the new difficulty. It's weird and clunky.
2) Lack of a favorite system, so it takes a while to go find things in a huge mess of missions, especially if they overlap in a section like Choice of Marks.
This is a lateral complaint, but I will also say that farming Delta Marks is insanely tedious, with only two non-elite queues to choose from, one ground, one space. The alternative is 10 minute long patrol missions that grant 10 marks each. Kobali ground missions now give about 8 marks each, and take almost as long. Not really acceptable, especially if you need 1000+ of them.
Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
I think it's time the Suits making these decisions and pushing deadlines are made to play the game and maybe they will then understand pushing the Dev Team to unrealistic deadlines and targets resulting in unfinished/broken/bugged content is not in the best interests of the Player base or the Development Team OR THEIR BOTTOMLINE
Quality before Quantity please
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
I don't have any complaints about the queue system other than...
1) You can't queue up for the same mission at multiple difficulties UNLESS you queue for one, select a new difficulty, try to drop it (fails) then queue up for the new difficulty. It's weird and clunky.
2) Lack of a favorite system, so it takes a while to go find things in a huge mess of missions, especially if they overlap in a section like Choice of Marks.
This is a lateral complaint, but I will also say that farming Delta Marks is insanely tedious, with only two non-elite queues to choose from, one ground, one space. The alternative is 10 minute long patrol missions that grant 10 marks each. Kobali ground missions now give about 8 marks each, and take almost as long. Not really acceptable, especially if you need 1000+ of them.
For Kobali, it's more about the daily bonus. Go there each day just long enough for the daily bonus and stack marks until you have enough.
For Kobali, it's more about the daily bonus. Go there each day just long enough for the daily bonus and stack marks until you have enough.
I usually just do a sector alert to get the daily. It's much faster than any of the Kobali ground content, and doesn't require flying to the Delta quadrant. Relying on dailies for marks if you need 1,000 isn't a good solution either, as it'd end up taking you nearly a month to obtain that amount, instead of a couple of days, like some of the other reputations.
Thank goodness though the new episode layout didn't affect the ability to participate in some of the content. Although it did seem to make trying to map track them a little more awkward.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,584Community Moderator
And I never used a mouse wheel because for a long time I was using a mouse with a semi busted mouse wheel that wouldn't scroll properly. So I had to resort to click and drag.
And here you are, arguing that everyone should be dumbed down to your level of broken...
That's uncalled for, and being taken out of context. I was responding to the guy saying that we only had mouse wheels and D-Pads for scrolling. I was just pointing out that I didn't have either of those options for a long time. Has nothing to do with "demanding everyone be dumbed down to my level".
BTW... I do have a new mouse with a working scroll wheel.
Which absolutely would be an improvement to the UI for this aspect of the game which is absolutely the paramount issue here regardless of whether it's 'new' or 'old', but if it's 'functional' and better at it's given function overall.
They might well know what they have planned for the game but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better for the players who play the game and/or inherently better for the game overall. It is entirely possible that the direction they have in mind is actually detrimental and I agree that we won't know that until they show us the changes, at which point we must give our opinions, impressions and suggestions for improvement, even if that is to say that it's 'stupid and needs rolled back'.
Oh, I have no problem with people voicing their opinions and making their suggestions. In fact, I encourage it. It's just that, we know that Cryptic WON'T be rolling it back. They never do with changes like this, so I was simply pointing out that the premise of the poll is flawed. It's irrelevant how many people think it should be rolled back, because it won't happen.
I accept that there are people who go over the score but we absolutely must be critical (in as far as the proper definition of the term with regard to analysis) of all changes which come into the game if we're to have any hopes of true improvements overall. That, as you suggested previously, Cryptic don't listen because of how toxic this community can be then frankly that's a separate issue and when compared to the substantially less toxic communities of other games, it is clearly then Cryptics own doing and they must address them, and separately too. That they would ignore this topic because of others is ludicrous, just as automatically giving in to player wishes on a future topic without proper consideration based on the interactions of this topic (if they were to actually listen to the majority so far shown here) would also be utterly ludicrous.
There you go with your absolutes again. But yes, be critical. Honest, CONSTRUCTIVE feedback should always be welcomed. I have suggested nothing about Cryptic not listening, or the community being toxic. You've confused me with someone else. But Cryptic is listening to constructive comments about improving the new UI.
Frankly insinuating that every step is a forward step is ridiculous too. Sitting as a blind 'yes man' saying that the changes are wonderful as the levels of raw sewage being pumped into the system are rising up to your neck isn't going to do anyone any favours.
Frankly, you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't insinuate anything, nor did I say anything about the changes being "wonderful". I stated that the suggestion to step backwards to the old UI, is not the same as making an improvment to the new UI. It's simply switching them out.
The new UI has been stated often and by many to have an improved mission reward filter, even if the application of that filter is actually detrimental on more than one front. This gives us one step forward and two steps backwards (one for queue viewing, one for tracking)
The difficulty filter has been moved from being a column header to mission specific and continually resets itself. Bug or as intended aside, that's another step back when it would actually be easier to see at a glance what difficulties are available, even within the new tabbed style.
The lost use of CD timers and the whole HOST of bugs which have been introduced, essentially without need. Given I gave two steps above, I'll restrict this to just one even though it should probably be 5+.
So, one step forward, four steps backwards. Of those 4 steps, we might get it back to just the top point eventually in which case it'll still be 1 forward, 2 back, chachacha...
As I said, make your suggestions to improve the new UI all you want. I just think that you're wasting your time asking them to rollback to the old one.
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It is not intuitive, a pain to navigate, and actually has reduced functionality over the old one, namely the inability to queue more than one difficulty of the same mission. There was no reason for this new UI, absolutely none.
Left side shows me queued for an elite mission, right side shows what I see when I check PvE to see how the queue is going. It defaults back to Basic. If you're queued for all advanced or elite missions the only way you can check is if you manually change each mission to the required difficulty.
Are you seriously saying long lists are scary and intimidating? That's pandering to child level fear of libraries and books because they contain much writing, despite everything being organized. This game's rated T for Teen.
'Memorizing' a filtered list is no different than the current system which simply makes it 'prettier,' but much less efficient due to redundancy of clicking multiple times and of viewing the same listings under multiple categories, and involves no higher order cognitive processing than looking for word in a dictionary a few times until it becomes a habit of scrolling to a section (of grinding the same content multiple times over weeks and months) not much different than tying your shoelaces.
Filters. They existed in the old system, and worked perfectly. They just didn't have pretty icons, and were more compact as a drop-down instead of tabs with icons showing the same things multiple times - a drop-down filter identical to those for Doffing.
They also allowed you to combine searches: eg. Iconian Marks and Fleet Marks and Nukara marks. Why? You could see which ones were active from that list. New system? Nope, can't do that anymore.
Prove it. The only issue I've experienced was double-clicking on something resulting in being queued for something else, so I used the Join button instead, and the "leave queue" on the prompt menu, the latter of which no longer exists as we're just randomly thrown into queues with zero warning or options.
No one's arguing that being different is bad as if people can't adjust. It's that when something less functional, less intuitive, more redundant, and with less options (cool-downs) replaces the old, it's the very definition of a downgrade.
And here you are, arguing that everyone should be dumbed down to your level of broken. Big scary lists that get longer, scroll bars, drop-down filter lists, the horrors. Get real.
Who appointed you as judge and executioner of feedback? I'll leave my feedback followed by suggestions as I please. Capitalize, yell, and misinterpret it all you want.
Somewhat off-topic: I'll also say the new system follows the dumbing down trend seen everywhere: previously good systems are gutted and oversimplified to the point of no functionality, swept to the masses under the guise of 'user-friendly' but they achieve one end-goal: removal of power for the masses, into the hands of the few who own it all. What's particularly insidious about their methods is when you get the masses to fight each other over the removal of power, and the sanctioning of top-down control over them, and it works. But nevermind me, call me tinfoil fashionista, carry on, nothing to see here.
I know of two cases where I encountered players who believe you aren't allowed to question the decisions of game Devs, because they know what's best for the game and we don't (from their perspective).
Personally, after having a lot of my favorite tv shows and games cancelled because of management directors who do what they want and don't care about their customers, I firmly believe if a corporation disregards constructive feedback and doesn't take their consumer base opinions into consideration, then they're a bad business.
Personally, I live by the rule "if it isn't broke, don't fix it".
There was nothing wrong with the old queue system, so why change it?
I looked at the new one and spent 5-10 minutes trying to find the queues I was looking for.
That's a 30 second task under the old system!
I'm also concerned that if I choose to do the Competitive Reputation, I may accidentally end up in a PvP match instead of a CPvE match.
Since I really loathe PVP, I naturally want to avoid this happening!
I haven't looked recently, but I see if the system made a distinction between CPvE and PvP matches so you know which one is which.
To be brutally honest, PWE really doesn't care about STO/CO/Cryptic players.
I think they only bought Cryptic to get more players for their games.
I researched PWE's catalogue once and there was nothing of interest to me, so I don't really care what games they offer.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
For example, who really likes the ordering of Boff Skill Books in your R&D Tab and selection for narrowing? Specialization, Tier, and Space/Ground would suffice.
Fix the recommended Specialization for Doffs (green) in the Select Doff choice, sent to the bottom of the list since AoY, when they were always at the top before. Top is the correct answer.
Clear up any Reputation Projects that still need Doffs and convert that to Dilitium (100 per). I believe some Nakura consumables.
Separate Reputation Active Traits for Ground and Space as they did with Personal Traits.
Primary/Secondary Specialization Selections for your Character for Space and for Ground.
You get what I mean.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Way to kill off teamwork, heck who needs to talk to anyone anyways?
I'll admit to having been away from the forums for a while, but it's good to see alcyoneserene still hammering out well reasoned points with blunt force honesty.
Needless to say, all of the above. Just, 'THIS', so much 'this'. I tried to be a bit more diplomatic about it...
As a slight side point, I never found the old mark filters particularly useful, noting that certain queues didn't show up when I tried to use them, so I just quickly scrolled down and selected what I wanted that way after removing ground content. To that end I can only assume an issue with Cryptics implementation of filters given similar issues with such functions on the exchange.
Also this:
And PWE seemingly pushing Cryptic for money rather than producing a quality title. This is an important piece of perspective. Yes, I will absolutely throw shade at Crpytic devs for shady content but ultimately I don't think they want to do a poor job and are being pushed from elsewhere.
Stop new content until quality returns
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm not discounting anyone's ideas or suggestions on actually improving the new UI. Rolling back to the old UI does not improve on the new UI, though. It's just going back to the old UI.
I think that Cryptic probably knows what's best for their game. They actually know, better than we, what they have planned... what's coming in the future. It's quite possible that this new UI was a necessary step towards something down the line. Again, I have no issue with ideas or suggestions on actual improvements to the new UI. But equating stepping backwards to stepping forward is not necessarily true.
Except, as I said, that doesn't exactly improve the new UI. It just replaces it with the old UI.
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The category tabs are pretty much the only thing about the new UI that's an honest improvement on the old one and even it would require an "All" category to avoid reduced functionality.
For another example of this, see how the Delta Reputation implemented with the Delta Expansion. All the other Reputations had already moved on to self-opening Marks Boxes. Delta did not, as it was based on the previous code fork. Wasn't corrected in a timely manner and they had themselves a problem with a soon to be Bonus Marks Weekend. Correction, make Daily Bonuses ineligible for the Bonus, then eventually got around to make Boxes self-opening.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing
Among other things the old UI was too long, horrible to handle and a pain to use. If you consider the old UI better in almost every conceivable way then you have a very limited perception.
The new UI is organized by reward without having to use clumsy filters. There are some improvements desirable like a return of the cool down timer and an option to only show specific difficulties, but even in its current state it is a step up from the clutter which was the old UI.
That said, it is broken. It is broken on release. Cryptic has a track record of releasing unfinished and buggy content and straight up not fixing it. The map merge, which was something I looked forward to for a very long time, has still left doffing in a busted state, seasons later. I have little confidence that they can polish this thing in a timely fashion.
The broken items are listed in this thread ad nauseam. The ones that irk me the most are the fact that selecting advanced doesn't "stick", and if you want to check how your queue is doing, you have to fumble around, and the removal of the Cooldowns button, which in my opinion was the best QOL improvement to PvE in years.
The old system sucked, and more importantly, they were lazy and left old queues pinned at the top for too long, but this new window has serious functionality issues that show it is not ready for prime time. They should have left well enough alone until it was ready.
But hey, we can no longer see how many people are actually playing each oneright now (at least that I have found), so the reporting error about the dead queues is fixed right? Those numbers were getting a little embarrassing in the old queue window over the past few months.
Which absolutely would be an improvement to the UI for this aspect of the game which is absolutely the paramount issue here regardless of whether it's 'new' or 'old', but if it's 'functional' and better at it's given function overall.
They might well know what they have planned for the game but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better for the players who play the game and/or inherently better for the game overall. It is entirely possible that the direction they have in mind is actually detrimental and I agree that we won't know that until they show us the changes, at which point we must give our opinions, impressions and suggestions for improvement, even if that is to say that it's 'stupid and needs rolled back'.
I accept that there are people who go over the score but we absolutely must be critical (in as far as the proper definition of the term with regard to analysis) of all changes which come into the game if we're to have any hopes of true improvements overall. That, as you suggested previously, Cryptic don't listen because of how toxic this community can be then frankly that's a separate issue and when compared to the substantially less toxic communities of other games, it is clearly then Cryptics own doing and they must address them, and separately too. That they would ignore this topic because of others is ludicrous, just as automatically giving in to player wishes on a future topic without proper consideration based on the interactions of this topic (if they were to actually listen to the majority so far shown here) would also be utterly ludicrous.
Frankly insinuating that every step is a forward step is ridiculous too. Sitting as a blind 'yes man' saying that the changes are wonderful as the levels of raw sewage being pumped into the system are rising up to your neck isn't going to do anyone any favours.
The new UI has been stated often and by many to have an improved mission reward filter, even if the application of that filter is actually detrimental on more than one front. This gives us one step forward and two steps backwards (one for queue viewing, one for tracking)
The difficulty filter has been moved from being a column header to mission specific and continually resets itself. Bug or as intended aside, that's another step back when it would actually be easier to see at a glance what difficulties are available, even within the new tabbed style.
The lost use of CD timers and the whole HOST of bugs which have been introduced, essentially without need. Given I gave two steps above, I'll restrict this to just one even though it should probably be 5+.
So, one step forward, four steps backwards. Of those 4 steps, we might get it back to just the top point eventually in which case it'll still be 1 forward, 2 back, chachacha...
Stop new content until quality returns
1) You can't queue up for the same mission at multiple difficulties UNLESS you queue for one, select a new difficulty, try to drop it (fails) then queue up for the new difficulty. It's weird and clunky.
2) Lack of a favorite system, so it takes a while to go find things in a huge mess of missions, especially if they overlap in a section like Choice of Marks.
This is a lateral complaint, but I will also say that farming Delta Marks is insanely tedious, with only two non-elite queues to choose from, one ground, one space. The alternative is 10 minute long patrol missions that grant 10 marks each. Kobali ground missions now give about 8 marks each, and take almost as long. Not really acceptable, especially if you need 1000+ of them.
Quality before Quantity please
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
My character Tsin'xing
Thank goodness though the new episode layout didn't affect the ability to participate in some of the content. Although it did seem to make trying to map track them a little more awkward.
That's uncalled for, and being taken out of context. I was responding to the guy saying that we only had mouse wheels and D-Pads for scrolling. I was just pointing out that I didn't have either of those options for a long time. Has nothing to do with "demanding everyone be dumbed down to my level".
BTW... I do have a new mouse with a working scroll wheel.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Oh, I have no problem with people voicing their opinions and making their suggestions. In fact, I encourage it. It's just that, we know that Cryptic WON'T be rolling it back. They never do with changes like this, so I was simply pointing out that the premise of the poll is flawed. It's irrelevant how many people think it should be rolled back, because it won't happen.
There you go with your absolutes again.
Frankly, you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't insinuate anything, nor did I say anything about the changes being "wonderful". I stated that the suggestion to step backwards to the old UI, is not the same as making an improvment to the new UI. It's simply switching them out.
As I said, make your suggestions to improve the new UI all you want. I just think that you're wasting your time asking them to rollback to the old one.
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