Life Support doesn't necessarily only mean oxygen and heat, etc. but also things like Replicators. On a more global level, people endured rationing during WW II so that the troops may have what they needed to successfully prosecute the war.
What is important is PLAY the way you want. PLAY. Moralizing explanations of how you feel about how you PLAY, not so much.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I did not searched for the changes of "Scattering Field", but: it's halved on Tribble atm. Any ideas why Cryptic nerfs a skill that nobody really uses, because it's to weak?
Make Science Great again!
Thank you for pointing this out. This is an unintentional change that appears to have been introduced when it was rebuilt to no longer lock you in combat for the duration and start cooldown immediately once clicked, and will be fixed soon.
In this case, I feel that actual mathematical terminology like "increased the slope of the line" would have been more helpful than "scales more aggressively".
What are you even thinking, with that timer and the nerfs to kinetic shearing? Will projectiles finally have that utterly nonsensical +75% resist taken off to compensate? Because I'm not seeing any compensation from the weapon systems that are already significantly weaker than their energy counterparts.
I would like to remind you that in canon they're used to take shields down, and energy weapons in endgame all hit harder before that resistance anyways.
So? Are you going to remove the shared cooldown? Or at least make Bridge Officer abilities affect all torpedoes fired during those ten seconds just like every single energy weapon bridge officer ability does
Are you going to make projectiles good again, or are you just going to kick them in the ribs and run away laughing about the buffs to Overload and how even individual fighters are immune to at least one torpedo now?
Hmmm. I seem to remember torpedoes have higher base DPS, a ton of options to build around them for enhanced shield penetration, and since the day STO went live were always designed as a skill-shot weapon that rewards dropping them through a weakened or completely depleted shield facing over space-bar spamming them.
Well, seeing as my main is a science ship with all torpedoes I can see that this is a major nerf all around for science and torpedo ships. Grav well is worse, sub space vortex is worse, omega shearing is worse, tractor repulsers is worse. I have the feeling playing a science is going to be far worse, and reliant on the silly ability we get to replace sub nuc beam. This does not feel like balancing at all.
Instead it's an all round nerf bat to science and torpedoes. I would seriously suggest looking at fixing the science abilities and torpedoes overall, rather than making them less useful. Which these patch notes seem to imply, that science and torpedoes are now rubbish once again.
@crypticspartan#0627 - I'm guessing the change in cannon weapon cycle time was primarily to unify their timing with beams. Would you consider adjusting their proc chance up to 3% (from 2.5%) to offset the "throw lots of dice" builds that are being hurt by this change? Or was eliminating things like the Protonic-koolaid down-the-drain build a deliberate objective? They lost about 40% of their opportunities to proc, decimating what was already a fairly niche ecology. It was one of the more interesting arguments for not always taking a FAW/Beams build when you wanted to focus your build on directed energy weapons.
Hmmm. I seem to remember torpedoes have higher base DPS, a ton of options to build around them for enhanced shield penetration, and since the day STO went live were always designed as a skill-shot weapon that rewards dropping them through a weakened or completely depleted shield facing over space-bar spamming them.
That hasn't been the case in years. The shield/hull penetration is easier to get on energy weapons too. Haste as well, and shields are considerably tougher at higher difficulties.
But even top-of-the-line playing like odenknight or the like will still not manage half the output you'd get with half the effort on an energy vessel. They're "skill shots" to a limited degree, but that's been nothing more than an added penalty to subpar weapons for years.
Example with just bare bones, before all the bonuses energy really gets: A MkXIV U-Rare Advanced Piezo Torpedo in my current setup lists 1626.7 DPS. The purple MkXIV Experimental Proton Cannon at 98 weapon energy lists 983.5. 1254.6 at 125 energy. Thing is though, I have no consoles boosting it (amp x3 is on but that affects everything), and only 1 rank in each energy skill on that same character. That torpedo's backed by about +180% kinetic/torpedo damage. Take it off and there's barely 40 dps difference between the two. Care to imagine what happens once shields get involved? Or what happens if one were to put in actual energy weapon consoles in there, and use a real weapon like a DBB or DHCs?
In fact let me just accidentally click this purple chronometric polaron DHC here where the proton cannon was...
1525.7 at 125 energy, before anything. That's only a little less on its own than a launcher completely backed by consoles and set gear.
And that's not counting the shared cooldown on firing your launchers; 5 forward guns at once this ain't!... Or the bridge officer abilities affecting just one shot once vs all weapons for all the duration... Torps are just a 90 degree weapon, too.
I use the term torpedoes a lot, but it stands for all kinetic weapons. Take the new railguns for example: If there's any energy heavy weapons later on, the kinetic heavies will be extremely weak in comparison, even though they're cash purchases...
Life Support doesn't necessarily only mean oxygen and heat, etc. but also things like Replicators. On a more global level, people endured rationing during WW II so that the troops may have what they needed to successfully prosecute the war.
Rerout Power from Life Support - Game Description: "Being in command sometimes means making difficult decisions, like choosing to sacrifice the lives of your brave crewmen in order to serve the greater good. As long as this toggle is active, crewmen aboard your vessel will gradually be disabled, while the cooldowns attached to various bridge officer abilities are slowed more and more. In return for these sacrifices, your vessel will benefit from increased subsystem energy in all systems, and a complete immunity to all subsystem disabling effects. Make it count, Captain!"
You are not disabling snack dispensers. YOU ARE MURDERING YOUR CREW. This is made abundantly clear in the description of the ability.
What is important is PLAY the way you want. PLAY. Moralizing explanations of how you feel about how you PLAY, not so much.
I have never talked about "ethics" or "morals". My position is THEME and STORY. Star Trek STORIES are about CHEATING DEATH. Often captains are PUNISHED by the STORY for mistreating their crew.
Shortening DRB's duration while increasing its damage proportionally will make it easier to use, but it might make it a bit over the top in PVP (which is what these changes seem to be aimed at).
so it got an extra .01 point of negative repel; wow, SOOOOO aggressive...
Actually, it is quite aggressive. GW3 repel went from -0.32 -> -0 .41 @420ish CtrlX. Going nuts on CrtlX I went to -0.49 when on Holo it was really difficult to get to -0.34. If all you got was an extra -0.01, you must be EPG focused and I'm guessing somewhere around 250 CtrlX using GW1?
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
so it got an extra .01 point of negative repel; wow, SOOOOO aggressive...
Actually, it is quite aggressive. GW3 repel went from -0.32 -> -0 .41 @420ish CtrlX. Going nuts on CrtlX I went to -0.49 when on Holo it was really difficult to get to -0.34. If all you got was an extra -0.01, you must be EPG focused and I'm guessing somewhere around 250 CtrlX using GW1?
I'm running GW3 at 223 grav gens. That said, given I get no difference in pull or range over holodeck in this version I have no complaints about that, although with my 436 part gens, I'd like to not lose nearly 600 damage per tick.
@crypticspartan#0627 could you look into Photonic Shockwave 1's disable time please? I managed to get my CtrlX up to 285 at 73 aux power and only got 3.2 seconds out of the disable. Upping my aux power to 85 didn't help either, leaving it at 3.2 seconds. Viral matrix 3 likewise didn't gain any time from an aux power increase leaving it at 13.3 seconds with 285 CtrlX at 85 Aux power.
Well let me just express my extreme disappointment in the nerf to GW. Obviously this is for the console pvp kids and related to your terror of SCAAAARY science. I will have to seriously consider continuing on in this game. I believe I said before that a 50% nerf to science would be it for me and this appears to be close to that. It's truly shameful pandering once again to the tac crowd.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Would it be possible to make torpedoes faster too? Compared to ships now they are so slow. Another option would be to slow ships at high end down a bit. It's a bit difficult to time a torpedo hit with the fraction of a second that shields are down for now. Used to be we'd get 2-3 seconds of a shield facing being down, whereas now they're either never down or the torpedo is being easily outrun.
It would even just be nice if the speed of your torpedoes you launch would be influenced by the speed/throttle you are traveling at when launched.
I don't think the game engine models projectile acceleration at all. Torpedoes and mines spawn at absolute rest, and then begin to move at a set speed. If they inherited their ship's speed without the ability to accelerate they might not be able to move towards a target behind you ever, their speed being insufficient to overcome the inherited vector.
(not to mention the total chaos of mine fields inheriting your ships speed...)
Why not slow down ships then so that they are slower than torpedoes? Some players fly nearly as fast cannon fire which is worrying. It'd also help to rein in that powercreep because ships don't have to be super-fast because then you're spending most of the time trying to keep the ship in the general vicinity of the target instead of firing your weapons which will probably miss.
It would even just be nice if the speed of your torpedoes you launch would be influenced by the speed/throttle you are traveling at when launched.
I don't think the game engine models projectile acceleration at all. Torpedoes and mines spawn at absolute rest, and then begin to move at a set speed. If they inherited their ship's speed without the ability to accelerate they might not be able to move towards a target behind you ever, their speed being insufficient to overcome the inherited vector.
(not to mention the total chaos of mine fields inheriting your ships speed...)
Well mines would need to be handled differently than torpedoes, maybe give mines some form of slowing effect around the area they spawn in. Like you lay down the field an any enemy ship that travels within 10km of the mine field has their speed reduced a set amount, while the mine than travel towards them.
That would be a question for the devs though, to find out how the engine deals with projectile acceleration, and if it is possible to be done. THough if they make it that what your throttle is set at gives a set amount of speed boost to your torpedoes that could work, since we know they can give speed boosts to torpedoes it is just if the engine can handle a speed/travel time boost based on the level of your ship's throttle is set at.
Mines different from Torpedoes? What would you do with the Breen and Vaadwaur Cluster Torpedoes that travels like a Torpedo, but deploys like a Mine.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Mines different from Torpedoes? What would you do with the Breen and Vaadwaur Cluster Torpedoes that travels like a Torpedo, but deploys like a Mine.
Well i would imagine make it that the torpedo aspect functions like torpedo in most cases, while then after it has deployed its mines are treated as mine, which I think is how it is treated even now. Though if both mines an also torpedoes somehow were being treated the exact same, than that could very well be a issue that is causing so much of the problems with them.
Honestly I think that cluster-torpedoes should have a split function that they can gain benefits from both boff-based weapon modifying abilities (like torpedo-spread, or high yield), but also that they can gain benefit from the boff-based mine abilities like the dispersal patterns, but that the bonus they would gain from such a ability would be less than a strictly torpedo or mine would.
Comments
What is important is PLAY the way you want. PLAY. Moralizing explanations of how you feel about how you PLAY, not so much.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Thank you for pointing this out. This is an unintentional change that appears to have been introduced when it was rebuilt to no longer lock you in combat for the duration and start cooldown immediately once clicked, and will be fixed soon.
See Spartan's explanations below.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/614udv/tribble_maintenance_and_release_notes_march_23/dfbqm6u/
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/614udv/tribble_maintenance_and_release_notes_march_23/dfd3lk9/
In this case, I feel that actual mathematical terminology like "increased the slope of the line" would have been more helpful than "scales more aggressively".
I would like to remind you that in canon they're used to take shields down, and energy weapons in endgame all hit harder before that resistance anyways.
So? Are you going to remove the shared cooldown? Or at least make Bridge Officer abilities affect all torpedoes fired during those ten seconds just like every single energy weapon bridge officer ability does
Are you going to make projectiles good again, or are you just going to kick them in the ribs and run away laughing about the buffs to Overload and how even individual fighters are immune to at least one torpedo now?
Instead it's an all round nerf bat to science and torpedoes. I would seriously suggest looking at fixing the science abilities and torpedoes overall, rather than making them less useful. Which these patch notes seem to imply, that science and torpedoes are now rubbish once again.
But even top-of-the-line playing like odenknight or the like will still not manage half the output you'd get with half the effort on an energy vessel. They're "skill shots" to a limited degree, but that's been nothing more than an added penalty to subpar weapons for years.
Example with just bare bones, before all the bonuses energy really gets: A MkXIV U-Rare Advanced Piezo Torpedo in my current setup lists 1626.7 DPS. The purple MkXIV Experimental Proton Cannon at 98 weapon energy lists 983.5. 1254.6 at 125 energy. Thing is though, I have no consoles boosting it (amp x3 is on but that affects everything), and only 1 rank in each energy skill on that same character. That torpedo's backed by about +180% kinetic/torpedo damage. Take it off and there's barely 40 dps difference between the two. Care to imagine what happens once shields get involved? Or what happens if one were to put in actual energy weapon consoles in there, and use a real weapon like a DBB or DHCs?
In fact let me just accidentally click this purple chronometric polaron DHC here where the proton cannon was...
1525.7 at 125 energy, before anything. That's only a little less on its own than a launcher completely backed by consoles and set gear.
And that's not counting the shared cooldown on firing your launchers; 5 forward guns at once this ain't!... Or the bridge officer abilities affecting just one shot once vs all weapons for all the duration... Torps are just a 90 degree weapon, too.
"Being in command sometimes means making difficult decisions, like choosing to sacrifice the lives of your brave crewmen in order to serve the greater good. As long as this toggle is active, crewmen aboard your vessel will gradually be disabled, while the cooldowns attached to various bridge officer abilities are slowed more and more. In return for these sacrifices, your vessel will benefit from increased subsystem energy in all systems, and a complete immunity to all subsystem disabling effects. Make it count, Captain!"
You are not disabling snack dispensers. YOU ARE MURDERING YOUR CREW. This is made abundantly clear in the description of the ability. I have never talked about "ethics" or "morals". My position is THEME and STORY. Star Trek STORIES are about CHEATING DEATH. Often captains are PUNISHED by the STORY for mistreating their crew.
Anyways, no more derails. Play however you want.
Shortening DRB's duration while increasing its damage proportionally will make it easier to use, but it might make it a bit over the top in PVP (which is what these changes seem to be aimed at).
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Actually, it is quite aggressive. GW3 repel went from -0.32 -> -0 .41 @420ish CtrlX. Going nuts on CrtlX I went to -0.49 when on Holo it was really difficult to get to -0.34. If all you got was an extra -0.01, you must be EPG focused and I'm guessing somewhere around 250 CtrlX using GW1?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I'm running GW3 at 223 grav gens. That said, given I get no difference in pull or range over holodeck in this version I have no complaints about that, although with my 436 part gens, I'd like to not lose nearly 600 damage per tick.
@crypticspartan#0627 could you look into Photonic Shockwave 1's disable time please? I managed to get my CtrlX up to 285 at 73 aux power and only got 3.2 seconds out of the disable. Upping my aux power to 85 didn't help either, leaving it at 3.2 seconds. Viral matrix 3 likewise didn't gain any time from an aux power increase leaving it at 13.3 seconds with 285 CtrlX at 85 Aux power.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I don't think the game engine models projectile acceleration at all. Torpedoes and mines spawn at absolute rest, and then begin to move at a set speed. If they inherited their ship's speed without the ability to accelerate they might not be able to move towards a target behind you ever, their speed being insufficient to overcome the inherited vector.
(not to mention the total chaos of mine fields inheriting your ships speed...)
Well mines would need to be handled differently than torpedoes, maybe give mines some form of slowing effect around the area they spawn in. Like you lay down the field an any enemy ship that travels within 10km of the mine field has their speed reduced a set amount, while the mine than travel towards them.
That would be a question for the devs though, to find out how the engine deals with projectile acceleration, and if it is possible to be done. THough if they make it that what your throttle is set at gives a set amount of speed boost to your torpedoes that could work, since we know they can give speed boosts to torpedoes it is just if the engine can handle a speed/travel time boost based on the level of your ship's throttle is set at.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Well i would imagine make it that the torpedo aspect functions like torpedo in most cases, while then after it has deployed its mines are treated as mine, which I think is how it is treated even now. Though if both mines an also torpedoes somehow were being treated the exact same, than that could very well be a issue that is causing so much of the problems with them.
Honestly I think that cluster-torpedoes should have a split function that they can gain benefits from both boff-based weapon modifying abilities (like torpedo-spread, or high yield), but also that they can gain benefit from the boff-based mine abilities like the dispersal patterns, but that the bonus they would gain from such a ability would be less than a strictly torpedo or mine would.
Way cooler would be a torpedo that deploys like a mine and then the projectiles shoot off to blow something up.